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johntully Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 03:49 AM
Original message
Cindy Sheehan's and Crooks and Liars' very strong criticism of DU
What are all your thoughts on Cindy Sheehan's and Crooks and Liars' very strong criticism of Democratic Underground?


I was disheartened at both. I really like C and L but they can be sorta, well, reactionary.
John Amato is great but some of the newbies there will praise Scarborough or even that opportunist Lawrence O'Donnell (after he pooh-poohed Joe and Valerie Wilson's civil suit last summer on Countdown.....) It just doesn't help.....
Kinda like Allison Stewart -filling in for Olbermann and teenagelessly mocking Fox News' Libby Chyron on the day that he was convicted and focusing on them showing a "not guilty" graphic...and gigglesnarking about it.

Nothelpfuldepartment #153
and I've been wanting to like that woman for 20 years but I just can not take her anymore.

John "There IS a difference between Democrats and Republicans" Tully

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Search Sheehan for the last month and you will find all the thoughts you want
I just can't anymore. :)
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johntully Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks Bluebear
Edited on Thu Jun-07-07 03:59 AM by johntully
I appreciate that feeling.
I had been needing to come over here and see what the reaction had been but have been busy.
Perhaps someone could be so kind as to give a general feeling for the boards here on that subject these last few weeks.
I post a lot of videos on youtube/tullysvision and I always post them HERE on DU FIRST and would appreciate the rundown ( re: thoughts on Sheehan /C and L/ Bloggers)
from some Kind DU-ER.
Thanks in advance.
John Tully

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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. One or two freeps posted crap about her. That's why I went on AAR
to speak out and stand up for Cindy and DU, against the infiltrators, whom I think have since been tombstoned. :P

I support Cindy Sheehan and her cause 110%!!

I marched with her to the White House in Sept. 2005 for her first arrest.

That woman has balls!! :rofl: And I feel her pain and outrage! :grr:

She had the gumption, integrity and anger; among others; to speak out when it was dangerous!!

:loveya: Cindy and Thank You for all that you have done to stop the war and will do in the future!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Welcome to DU, johntully! :hi:


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johntully Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thanks Breeze!
I have a lot of admiration and respect for what Cindy Sheehan did/does. I'll never forget that she spoke up against this President and his war years ago.... Now that I'm a parent of a beautiful little girl...well...godammit I hate this war!....

John Tully
http://nyheraldsun.com


JT
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. what did she say when you defended us?
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. I like Cindy and C&L a lot, but I have to say that I felt some disappointment
in their reactions to what I understood was essentially ONE PERSON'S post about her. There are people like that on all kinds of websites.

But I think that Cindy was reacting mostly out of tiredness, which is very understandable. I'm definitely not at my best when I am also worn down. But for C&L to pick up on it, not to mention Daily Kos, well, I think it's a knee-jerk reaction.

Give us a break, folks. We all get a little crazy now and then, from the craziness we have to live with on a daily basis.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. I kind of think we've all been missing something
apparently there was ONE post that was the proverbial straw that broke Cindy's back

think about it - ONE POST had enough impact to cause Cindy to leave the movement.

Jump into the way-back machine - the movement started with ONE person (cindy) asking ONE question (for what purpose did my son die)

What we all may have been missing is the impact ONE (anything/anyone) can have on the whole. This is also part of our democratic process, the opportunity for each of us as an individual to make a statement and maybe make a difference.

Without that opportunity - Cindy wouldn't have been able to ask her question, and the 'offending' post would never have been allowed.


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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. Or, it was the ONE excuse she needed to take a necessary break from it all.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It doesn't erase what she's already done, and the movement hasn't ended because of it. Most importantly, she isn't dead or crazy from exhaustion.
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 05:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. IMHO, this topic has been kicked around already...
You know the shit stirrers would love to see it the only topic discussed here.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. I more or less agree
This subject has been done to death, and I'd be surprised if anybody had anything worthwhile to say on it.

Bryant
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thank you.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. Perhaps
Edited on Thu Jun-07-07 05:47 AM by H2O Man
you could provide a link to what Cindy Sheehan said about DU. I note that you have posted your OP on both DU:GD and DU:GD: Politics, saying that she had "very strongcriticism of Democratic Underground." Could you please provide evidence of this?

Thanks!
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. A good question, Pard. I posted on their other thread, too...
Waiting on links to sources...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yep.
Curious that this is posted on both DU:GD and DU:GD: Politics, and despite polite requests for a link providing evidence, none has been provided.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. H2O man - she did mention us by name
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/28/12530/1525

"I have endured a lot of smear and hatred since Casey was killed and especially since I became the so-called "Face" of the American anti-war movement. Especially since I renounced any tie I have remaining with the Democratic Party, I have been further trashed on such "liberal blogs" as the Democratic Underground. Being called an "attention whore" and being told "good riddance" are some of the more milder rebukes."
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Please refresh my memory. We have 100,000 plus members...
here? including how many sock puppets and trolls?
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I know - there were a few mean comments in a thread that generally supported Cindy
Edited on Thu Jun-07-07 07:10 AM by FLDem5
that seemed to be the catalyst, though.

Wish it wasn't. Things got ugly after that.\

You would have to do a search for the original post - sorry, there were so many I really don't have time.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. I think that is
distinct from what the OP claims.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Old news. Mr 40 posts up there is just trying to get his jollies.
His Dish network must be on the blink or something.
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Hee hee hee! We shall see. ;-)
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
16. this is my whole objection over the cindy sheehan thing
it is perfectly alright to criticize the dems on the handling of the war issue. they should not have voted with the president. its perfectly ok for cindy to criticize the dems on this account. however it is perfectly ok for dems to criticize her style/tactics as well. if you are a public figure, you should be able to handle criticism. whatever your cause is, it should be important enought to you, that the critism doesnt make you quit. regardless, she did a lot for the anti-war movement. i just really didnt like her letter of resignation.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Well, one thing that Cindy Sheehan has always done is to show her human side--
beginning with her very personal motivation to rouse the antiwar movement--her loss of her son. It was a PERSONAL campaign. She wanted PERSONAL contact with Bush, to answer her question, "What did he die for?" And in the course of her leadership, her emotion and her anger have never been far from the surface. She has NOT played the politeness games of this cruel and murderous political establishment. She has emphasized being a mother, losing her son, and feeling sorrow for all the other mothers and family members losing their loved ones. HOW can you be polite about that? Really, you can't. She has been both tough and emotional in a good way. She gave us all hope when there was none--in the darkest hours of this war. And, given the personal nature of her campaign--that ripping, bloody wound she feels, and helped us ALL to feel--it is completely understandable that someone calling her an "attention whore" might be the last straw. It might have been easier for her to fixate on that, than to face the collapse of the Democratic Party opposition to the war, and to realize that it has, all along, been as much a Democratic war as a Republican one, and that the political establishment, as a whole, is never going to disavow it, or give up its new foothold in the Middle East. That is the reality. And it is hard to face. And it must be especially hard for HER to face. So she blames DU--an open forum with little control over rude posters, trolls and agents provocateur.

I know other activists who have been daunted by the idiocy of some DU posters. I like the openness of this forum, but it has its downside. Hurting Cindy Sheehan was one of the downsides. How could anyone be so low--on a supposedly progressive Democratic forum? Well, some ARE that low--and they are more than likely not progressives of any kind. And we have to put up with them. The upside is that they sometimes stimulate good discussions (like having a Bushite uncle at the dinner table), and also the openness attracts newly active citizens who are trying to get information and figure things out. I was especially grateful for the original 2004 DU election forum, when discussion of 2004 election fraud was forbidden at other progressive web sites. We had A LOT OF trolls and other kinds of operatives, and, although their naysaying became stupid, rude and tiresome, and their agendas were sometimes quite devious, I would say, on the whole, that it was an eye-opener of a forum, and extremely productive as to activism on election reform.

I don't think it's adequate to say that, if you're going to be a public figure, you must expect abuse. The next step would be to say that, if you're going to lead a civil rights movement, you must expect to be assassinated. Yeah, it's true. Raise your head against fascist forces, and expect the bullets to fly. But let's try not to blame the victim, okay? That troll who called her an "attention whore" stood in for MANY people on the so-called progressive Democratic side who are hypocrites and liars about this war. That's who she has been up against--not just the Bush Junta but the "military-industrial complex" Democrats! And it might as well as have been all them--the Congressional voters for the war, the Congressional voters for more funding for the war, the Congressional voters for non-transparent vote counting by rightwing Bushite electronic voting corporations--who all, collectively, yelled "attention whore" at the mother of a dead soldier in their goddamned bipartisan horror in Iraq.

I think that's who she was reacting to, and can't stomach any more--the Bidens, and the Clintons, and the Dodds, and the McAuliffes and all the liars. And DU produced the troll who summed them all up--who summed up their collective finger in the air at U.S. soldiers and their families, and at the 70% of the American people who hate their war.

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riona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
20. I appreciate all Cindy has done
and am sorry that the Party has lost her. However, one reason I chose to become a member of DU is that there ARE various opinions expressed here. Sometimes I do not agree with a poster's view, and sometimes I don't agree with how the blogger expresses that view. Nonetheless, it's an education to see how others think, and often we can benefit from the information provided, I am grateful that DU is flexible enough to allow its posters to express opposing views and vent their emotions. Most of us here want to see our country going in a more positive direction and the current frustration can sometimes cause us problems. If you ask me, the DU makes an excellent effort to allow the freedom of expression within its set parameters.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-07-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
24. Cindy Sheehan is a saint and a god
She walks on water, heals the sick, and cures all what ails the human species. She is a giant among us lowly mortals, whose omniscience, super-human abilities, and judgments render the rest of us numb with awe.

She can do no wrong. I will personally smite each and every one of you who dares to speak even remotely critical of Her Goodness. HOW DARE YOU??11!! SHE DIED FOR OUR LIBERAL SINS!!!1
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