Has anyone read "EMPIRE" by Orson Scott Card?

[sfwriter]

I just read Orson Scott Card's "Empire"

It isn't the worst book he has ever written,

IT IS THE WORST BOOK ANYONE HAS EVER WRITTEN.

Well, almost.

At first, I kept laughing at his caricatures of the smug right and how they observed the left. I kept thinking, man has he ever got their number. Then I met his characters on the left and realized he meant it. The lefties were Limbaugh straw men, each and every one.

Liberals whine. Liberals don't listen to facts or reason. Universities are giant circle jerks with no educational value, except to turn out more whiny urban liberals.

Oh, and secretly, liberals want to start a civil war and only those underdogs, our flag-loving, god-fearing, right-wing U.S. military can stop them from conspiring with the terrorists to do it.

That's the plot, I kid you not.

Even more unbelievably, Bill O'Reilly makes two appearances as the voice of reason.

It reminds me of Left Behind in a lot of ways. Not content to drain logic and reason from our fiction, good writing and drama must also be sacrificed on the alter of these precious fictions that must be maintained. Entertainment comes only from the death and torture of the unbelievers.

For Example:

"I surrender," the wounded guy said.
"How are we supposed to take you captive?" said Cole.
Cat walked over to the guy.
Terrified, the rebel said, "I'm an American, you can't kill me."
"Tell it to the cops you guys killed in New York," said Cole. "And the apartment building doorman."
"You guys are murderers!" shouted the rebel. "You love to kill!"
Cat reached down and broke the guys right arm.
The guy screamed staring at his arm. When he could speak he groaned, "I'm an American!"
"American with a broke arm," said Cat.

It goes on like this. and on... and on...

In the afterword, Card laments that in our politically charged world, the words of hatred and untruths spread by our "progressive" "elite" media could lead to civil war. Of course his book doesn't contribute to that at all because it is balanced.

Yeah, balanced like the fevered dreams of Ann Coulter.

[villager]

1. so who publishes his tripe these days? Is it still Tor?

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. This is the level of crap that the industru has sunk to

it used to be that Amreican writers sold overseas, no more

And this is the resson

you want to know why?

Follow the ownership

Yep same pattern as the rest of teh media

[Dr.Phool]

2. I read his first couple of books, years ago.

Starting with "Enders Game", which was pretty good.

Thanks for the warning on his newer stuff.

[PFunk]

3. Nice concept, Very lousy and one-sided excution.

Despite what the reviews on amazon said it is a red state good-blue state bad book really (their are NO good liberal characters in this one folks). If you're a card fan please skip this one big time. And wait until someone decent gives this concept some justice.

[Onceuponalife]

4. is it as bad as "Children of the Mind"?

...the only Card book I didn't like? Calm down. It's fiction. The only question should be..was it a good story and entertaining? 24 is a right wing view, also, but I still love to watch it. I think I'll read the book and make up my own mind, thank you very much. You guys sound like the hive mind from "Ender". All thinking with one mind marching in lockstep.

[murielm99]

5. I used to read his books, and I enjoyed them.

Then, his later books got so right-wing and turgid that I could not stomach them any more. If they had been well-written, I might have agreed with you.

In the meantime, I found out what a vicious homophobe Card is. I could not read his books without that tainting everything he wrote. I was done.

I used to read Clancy's books, too. I know he is a right-winger, but I enjoyed some of his early stuff as summer and beach reads. I got tired of him after awhile, but not because of his political views. He had kept me entertained with his books, but it gets repetitive.

We do not have a hive mind here. You must have missed the Cindy threads, the primary wars, and many other fights if you think that.

[Onceuponalife]

7. Ha ha just making a Card joke no offense

intended. I don't agree that he is a "vicious homophobe", though. He has had some sympathetic gay characters in some of his books. He just happens to belong to a Christian sect (Mormonism) that has a twisted and ignorant view of homosexuality. I don't think that makes all Mormons vicious homophobes. If you have any info or quotes from him to the contrary let me know.

[murielm99]

8. Okay.

There is this:

http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2004-02-15-1.html

And this:

http://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-hypocrites.html

He has given several interviews where he repeats his bigotry and his stereotyped negative views of homosexuals.

I stand by my statement that he is a vicious homophobe.

And Google is your friend.

[tkmorris]

12. I disagree

First of all, a book such as this reflects the political views of it's author. If you don't believe that go read some recent interviews with Card. This is true to his current beliefs, to the core.

Maybe you don't care about his beliefs. OK, fine. But literature such as this is widely read, and people who do so are affected by what they read. They tend to adopt the philosophy of the books they read. It is more than just "a good read" or "a good story and entertaining" to them, they believe it's real, in a fashion. It is never a good thing to have a hyper-patriotic, Ayn Randian point of view permeating the populace. Should it be banned? No, of course not, but it SHOULD be analyzed and countered, as is being done here.

Oh and by the way. Who are "you guys"? If you mean me you have made a serious mistake, I follow NO one. I am a maverick through and through. Quite a few of us DU'ers are.

One more thing. 24 blows large, colorful chunks. The show is ridiculous. That's just my opinion, but there ya go.

[uppityperson]

6. I tried. I really tried. It was 1 of the few books I've ever put down unfinished.

I thought the reviews couldn't be that bad but I was wrong. It is not only poorly written, with characters that I had no feelings for, with a stupid plot, but jeez. Paid by the pound to write with his eyes closed while locked in a room with 100 monkeys. Lowest common denominator of fiction readers. It was bad.

[TheMadMonk]

9. Loved Ender's game and enjoyed most of the rest.

And the Homecoming books weren't too bad if not exactly my cup of tea. Wyrms intrigued, but didn't gel with me.

Pretty much everything else is shite as far as I'm concerned.

Luckily I read Ender's Game and a couple of others before I discovered he was a Mormon or I might have avoided him altogether.


My gauge of a good book is how many times I can go back to the well.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. 'Sadly, No!' took the book apart brilliantly

in a couple of threads:

The Comedy Never Stops

The Empire Strikes Hilarity

[Selatius]

11. I bet you it will be a close-minded ideologue who fires the first shot in a future civil war here.

I bet you your bottom dollar those are the types who will shoot first.

[maine_raptor]

13. Unfortunately, I did read it.

Love Alt History and found this book in the bargain bin at the local store. I stay away from Card's books generally, but with a fifty cent price, I couldn't resist. Wish I had. It is one of the few books that I would not pass on to a friend looking for a good read and also one of the VERY few books I'd burn.

[Onceuponalife]

14. Thanks for the info

I hadn't seen all that before. It seems Card has gone a bit over the edge with his anti-gay ideology. Still, he seems to be a bit confused in his reasoning, trying to stake some kind of middle ground, as here:

"In Songmaster (and also in the third Homecoming novel, The Ships of Earth, the only other place where I have dealt with homosexuality in my fiction) I attempt to create real and living characters. I find it nearly impossible to create a character that I do not end up understanding and sympathizing with to some degree. Thus it should surprise no one that I treat homosexuals in my fiction with understanding and sympathy. This does not mean that I don't also regard homosexual behavior as inappropriate for those who purport to be Latter-day Saints. I see no contradiction between the two ideas; indeed, I fail to see how an uncompassionate person could be a good Christian, or a good Latter-day Saint in particular.

I suppose I can take some comfort from the fact that over the years I have been savaged both for showing too much sympathy for the "abomination" of homosexuality and for showing too much "homophobic" opposition to the political agenda of the radical homosexual community. If either group of intolerant extremists felt comfortable with my works and my words, I would have reason to reexamine my position. As things stand right now, however, I think I am annoying exactly the right people on both sides, and so will continue as I have in the past, to attempt to discover the truth of every aspect of human life and then to tell what truth I believe I have found, as best I can, in both my fiction and my nonfiction."


I think I will still read and enjoy his books, regardless, but I thank you for enlightening me as I try to comprehend his complex character. btw, I am an atheist, but I strive to understand the different religious traditions and mythology. The more I hear of the tenants of Mormonism, the harder it is to understand why anyone would follow it, no offense intended.

[TroglodyteScholar]

16. Yea, I won't read any of Card's books anymore...

...since I found out he's a terrible person....

[NewJeffCT]

17. Why do conservatives always point to our universities

as examples of why we should have school choice at all levels? Colleges & universities are bastions of liberal elitism on one hand, but also a source of great pride because students from around the world want to study here because we have school choice on the other hand.

Makes you go hmmm...

:shrug:

[Jonathan50]

18. Card actually used to be quite liberal...

In fact he had a "speech" he would do that was billed as a "secular humanist revival".

http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/2005/06/06/second_secular_humanist_revival_meeting.php

Two decades ago, a saint came before us to preach the American values of a secular nation in the humanist tradition.

His name was Orson Scott Card. He called his preaching the Secular Humanist Revival Meeting. He was a Saint of the Latter Day.

And as time went on the warnings he gave came true. Religion crept into our science classrooms. Children were told how to pray by bureaucrats. Churches were corrupted by government money, corrupting themselves in the process.

Now we are engaged in a great World War, a Crusade between the Christian and the Muslim world, bomb matched by bomb, atrocity by atrocity.

And in that conflict, where are we? For that matter, where is Card? Gone to the other side, I’m afraid, writing plays and books where only those of the One True Faith find redemption, where only the Chosen are heroes, where action is motivated mainly by belief.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

19. If you hated "Empire: The Book", you're going to LOATHE "Empire: The Movie"

I wish I was kidding.

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=41832">Card's "Empire" Heads For Film

Orson Scott Card's SF novel Empire is being adapted for the big screen by Oren Moverman as a large-scale drama for Warner Brothers and Silver Pictures, Variety reported. Joel Silver is producing.

Set in the near future, the novel centers on an America in chaos: The assassination of the president and vice president plunges America into civil war, and a team of special-forces operatives try to unravel the conspiracy and save the country. The book was published last year.

Yay, a conservative snuff fantasy makes it to film. Now all they need is to make Terry Goodkind's books into movies...

oh wait... http://www.filmrot.com/articles/news/007188.php