What's with the nitheads protesting against the Blue angels

[napi21]

putting on their show in San Francisco? The radio report said they were fighting against war. The Blue Angels don't represent war! The beautiful display of precision flying is a spectucular to behold, and I sure would go to watch their unmatched capabilities anytime.

What's with the protests?

[MichaelHarris]

1. is that like

the Fleet Week thing? I was there last year and it was very annoying. I have nothing against The Blue Angels at all but along the waterfront is was very loud. I was doing street photography and finally had to give up.

[Dr.Phool]

2. They are a great show.

But, their primary purpose is, and has always been RECRUITMENT.

That's their stated mission. Thus, the protests.

[napi21]

4. OK, I understand that. But guess what?

I'm too damn old not to even try, but I would have done ANYTHING to be able to be part of that crew when I was young and capable, but....I was female, so TS...at least back then.

I guess you're right about it being a recruitment tool, but I've gone to their shows twice and I was in no position to even think about recruitement, and I LOVED THE SHOW! I'd sure go again if they come to Atlanta, and at almost 64, I'm sure no recruitment target!

[TahitiNut]

14. Not only that, but they disrupt general and commercial aviation in the area ...

... and pose some risk to people on the ground - besides the noise. These planes also gulp huge amounts of fuel ... something that's not too cheap in California. While it's a drop in a VERY large bucket, it's still on the taxpayer's dime.

I've watched them. I've enjoyed the shows ... but I'm very ambivalent at the same time. After living for nearly a year where they weren't for entertainment, I can't help but look at the smiling faces of the audience and see how bizarre and incongruent they are. Really.

[LeftyMom]

3. Because there's $200,000,000 or so worth of killing machines overhead?

Here's a hint: the Navy really isn't in the business of entertaining people. They're there to make military hardware and service look glamorous and admirable in the hope that the little kids sitting on their parents' shoulders oohing and awwwwing might sign up some day, and that their parents will be impressed enough not to bitch about the next appropriations bill in the meantime.

PS The very same model and configuration of plane flies over Iraq dropping bombs. Maybe we should paint 'em up pretty so the Iraqis know they "don't represent war."

[Gabi Hayes]

5. What was it they called that "Air Show" over Iraq a few years ago?

Shock and Awe, or something like that

sure was purty

especially to all the Iraqi kids who had the nice surprise of getting their arms and legs and heads blown off for no additional charge!

[LeftyMom]

12. But that's okay. They don't represent war.

I'd sure like to know what a $35 million dollar plane that is designed to shoot down other planes and bomb ground targets in the same flight does represent in that case. :shrug:


* Guns: 1x 20 mm M61 Vulcan internal gatling gun with 578 rounds
* Hardpoints: 9: 2 wingtip, 4 underwing, and 3 fuselage, carrying up to 13,700 lb (6,215 kg) of missiles, rockets, bombs, fuel tanks, and pods
o Missiles:
+ Air-to-air: AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-120 AMRAAM, AIM-7 Sparrow, IRIS-T
+ Air-to-ground: AGM-45 Shrike, AGM-65 Maverick, AGM-88 HARM, SLAM-ER, JSOW, Taurus missile
+ Anti-ship: AGM-84 Harpoon
o Bombs: CBU-87 cluster, CBU-89 gator mine, CBU-97 CEM, Paveway, JDAM, Mk 80 series, nuclear bombs,<17> Mk 20 Rockeye II cluster, mines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F/A-18_Hornet#Design_characteristics

[napi21]

13. Totally different! That's like saying NASCAR is just like you driving

100+ MPH down the LA freeway. Notice, I didn't say much more than 100 MPH because most newer cars just won't do that.

One example (NASCAR) is a demonstration of engine power, and driver control, the other is an example of an idiot!

[LeftyMom]

18. When did NASCAR switch to tanks?

You're missing the point. It's military hardware. It represents, at best, a necessary evil. To celebrate it's capabilities is to celebrate death. It's especially horrible in a time of war.

[napi21]

27. So cars are now a necessary deatth too? I like NASCAR too.

Oh my, I guess I'm really the enemy to you! Well trained drivers put on a show, the rest of us drive from point a to point b and hope the hell they don't get killed doing so!

[uppityperson]

35. NASCAR doesn't drive tanks, military machines.

Fly some other cool type plane, just not military ones.

[goodgd_yall]

28. Exactly n/t

[Athens30603]

39. not exactly

It's possible to admire the air show without being a war supporter. To celebrate the capabilities of a pilot flying in formation and doing other air feats does not mean that you would also celebrate his ability to drop napalm.

[napi21]

43. Thanks! I don't support war either, but I sure do admire the

capabilities of those pilots!

[napi21]

8. Yep, I know the Angels fly military planes, and yes they are used to drop bombs.

In fact the Blue Angles pilots are usually very experienced fighter pilots. Yep, that's their job, and they're damn good at it!

I guess you and I will have to just disagree, because I do believe the US needs a military, at least until we decide to become a country like Denmark or Sweeden, and I'm not seeing that happening anytime soon.

I happen to enjoy seeing the superior tallents of those pilots. If you don't like it don't go to the show.

[Book Lover]

15. Actually, as one who works in SF I have no choice but to "go to the show"

The Blue Angels bring negatives as well as positives to San Francisco during Fleet Week.

[madrchsod]

17. saab makes a nice jet for the swedish military

[Solo_in_MD]

26. Its not up the level of the F-18 or F-16, let alone the next generation

of Eurofighter, F-22 or F-35

[Onceuponalife]

9. I agree with Leftymom

It celebrates militarism. And I'm no hippy. I served in the Army myself. But it's all a con job to sell the military to people who don't know any better. Besides, a lot of pilots have gotten killed trying to act like Maverick.

[uppityperson]

34. Excellent answer. It is about glamorizing war.

get a bunch of bi-planes flying in formation for fun instead. Bi-planes are very cool.

[RagingInMiami]

6. It's called Freedom of Expression

People can protest what they want regardless if it makes sense to you or not.

[BrotherBuzz]

7. I think it's the Thunderbirds (Air Force) that have their air show this weekend...

in Sacramento (California Capital Airshow dates: June 9th and 10th). I thought the Blue Angels strutted their stuff in San Francisco for 'Fleet Week' in the fall.

[napi21]

10. I don't know. All I heard ws a radio report on KGO stating the

Blue Angels Show was being protested against their show in SF somewhere. If KGO got it wrong, I have no idea.

[EFerrari]

47. No, they got it right. Us nitheads will protest the show and

the board of supervisors likely will pass a resolution.

Mindless militarism isn't a San Francisco value, I guess.

[Book Lover]

11. Today is when three SF peace groups publicized their plans

http://www.examiner.com/a-768103~Daly_backs_move_to_ground_Blue_Angels_show.html

Daly backs move to ground Blue Angels show

CodePink, Global Exchange and Veterans for Peace, Chapter 69, are working with Supervisor Chris Daly on a Board of Supervisors resolution to address concerns over the Blue Angels.

Daly acknowledged he is considering a call to halt the flyovers because, he said, “they seem dangerous and unnecessary.” Daly said he plans on introducing the resolution as early as Tuesday, but is still drafting the language. A resolution is not legally binding, but states a board position.

<snip>

Edward Leonard, chairman of the San Francisco Fleet Week Committee, said that since the April plane crash, the Blue Angels are back flying and “we think it’s safe.” He added that the planes’ maneuvers require approval by the Federal Aviation Administration, the more challenging maneuvers are conducted over the Bay waters and that “commercial airlines fly over The City all the time.”

<more at link>

[napi21]

16. All I can say is that I really enjoy their demonstration of such precision flying,

and I'd be really pi**ed if they stopped the show here!

[BrotherBuzz]

19. Check

Plan now for fleet week in the fall.

My twelve-year-old roped me into the Sacramento air show this weekend. I secretly enjoy them even more than he does. ;)

[Book Lover]

21. Your profile says

Georgia, nu? I don't think you have anything to worry about. SF may be the only place in the US where this idea could even get in front of the Board of Supes.

[napi21]

23. Yep, I live in Ga. but believe it or not, the Angels and the

Thunderbirds do sometimes come her too! I just hate to hear that they are being rotested no matter where they are to fly.

I wasn't worried about anything! I admire the capabilities of these pilots and it's fun to watch both precision flying teams.

[Athens30603]

40. I agree

Precision flying is really cool to watch. I also love to watch rockets and space shuttles take off.

[EST]

20. There is another consideration that I find of rather high importance

and imminently protestable. That is the danger of such displays, illustrated too graphically in recent memory.
This country, even though it is not as crowded as, say, China or India, is almost wall to wall people anytime and anywhere they perform. When you and I were kids, there was only about one hundred sixty million people living here and a greater proportion of those were not in highly built up urban and suburban areas.

If they were doing their show over the dry lake bed it would be different, but it would not present the vicarious thrill and recruitment tool that it is designed for.
I think it is past time for us to stop demonstrating what a warlike nation we are and how badass we can be, like an abusive parent, and start showing how reasonable we can be while maintaining high ethical moral and ethical standards.

Walk softly and carry a big, not necessarily blatantly obvious stick, and all that sort of thing.

Like you, I would have given almost anything to have become a hot dog pilot-and I was already a fairly accomplished pilot and airplane owner at seventeen-but my personal concept of "thou shalt not kill" yanked me up short.

(Sigh) Sometimes I wish I could live to be two hundred so I could watch more of history unfold, first hand.

[madrchsod]

22. nothing else to do?

saw them last weekend and they are really cool. we are not going to get rid of military aircraft and their will always be men and women who are willing and able to fly them. i have a problem with the amount and the cost but it`s really naive to think we can get rid of the military in this country. it`s the way we chose where and why we fight wars that is the problem.

[IChing]

41. The best of the best

warriors should not
have to advertise
their martial art

unless they are trying to sell something
which they are.

I have another philosophy on Martial Arts
which doesn't earn me money or fame.

[Solo_in_MD]

24. nitheads...maybe thats what wrong with some of them

[goodgd_yall]

25. Disruptive and ear splitting

If you work in San Francisco, as I used to, when the Angels/Birds are prepping for their weekend performance, it's impossible to do business with the earsplitting roar going on. Something perhaps about the canyons of the city streets amplifies the jet noise and makes it really annoying. Everybody in my office hated it.

[janx]

29. Some people say the same thing about rock and roll.

;-)

[napi21]

31. Oh for goodness sake! Do you get just as excited about the planes that

take off and land at the San Francisco Air Port? I don't know anything about San Francisco, but I do know the Angels or the Thunderbirds rarely if ever fly when they aren't fairly close to an airfield. So that tells me you always hear planes. Do the military ones make more noise? Absolutely! And THAT'S part of the thrill of the show! I'm sorry it bothers you, but you can relax with the fact that they are rarely there to bother you.

[Book Lover]

33. The airport is actually in the next county south

I grew up in Queens, which has both La Guardia and JFK: I remember very clearly teachers stopping their lectures several times a day every day due to the plane noise. In my nearly 15 years of living and working in SF, I can count the number of times that has happened, honestly, on the fingers of one hand. Our commercial air traffic simply is not allowed to disrupt San Francisco. The Blue Angels are granted dispensation from these regulations, which is why you will hear this complaint.

[napi21]

42. And you can't deal with it once a year? n/t

[Book Lover]

44. I think those who support these groups' action would say no because

the Blue Angels are granted these dispensations without regard to the safety of the citizens they are flying over. And they would say no because they feel that San Francisco is singled out for aural harassment by the military because anti-militarists feel more free to express that sentiment here than anywhere else.

You say the Angels show where you live; do you notice an increase in air pollution during that time of the year? I'm assuming here, but I guess not. In SF the perception is that the city is buzzed and razzed purposefully. Perhaps it is a result of the geography of the area, instead. Even if it is only for one week out of 52, many who live and work here would rather not be bothered.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Glorification of the miltary is good enough reason to protest.

[Madspirit]

32. Yeah,..why would anyone protest a war machine. Gee...must be crazy leftists or something...n/t

[Hardrada]

36. Far and near/ And low and louder

High the screaming fife replies.
Gay the files of scarlet follow
Woman bore me. I must die.

-A.E. Housman

[Jed Dilligan]

37. I found them to be a pain in the ass

when I lived there, and the general sentiment in the populace is that the city was singled out for Fleet Week because of its history as an antiwar mecca.

People who want to get buzzed by military jets should have to drive to an isolated place to enjoy it.

[uppityperson]

38. Really, why protest the glamorization of war? If you want to have cool flying machines

go with some other type. Pitts, or bi-planes of some sort, crop dusters. There are lots of cool planes to put on shows with that don't promote military.

[IChing]

45. Each plane they fly equals to

what it would cost to pay how many teachers
for 3 school years?

How much are the costs of each plane
that give children a chance to be educated?

How much does each plane
cost our environment?

Not only in the true environment
but the military environment
that starves the rest?

I want my flying car that was promised me, many years ago
that would be available for the masses.

This technology is not available for the people
but is an extreme elitism .

I'm impressed what they can do
but damn, do you think we can
do better for

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Those words were spoken in balance
we don't have balance now.

[jpgray]

46. I think air shows are deeply stupid

But there has to be a better exemplar of the war to protest.

[EFerrari]

48. BushCo has sucked the life out of everything. When I was a kid

we'd go to the airfield and watch or sometimes, we get up on the roof. It was loud and exciting and sort of beautiful.

I can't even look at them without knowing exactly what they are. And damned if we give recruiters any help in picking off our young people.

[OneBlueSky]

49. vast wastes of jet fuel to entertain the masses and . . .

leave them with a favorable impression of the military . . . yeah, they're great pilots -- but they're just part of the propaganda campaign . . .