I have a huge problem with criticism of Hilton that's focused on her 'spoiled'-ness or her money

[bigtree]

First of all, she deserves the best defense available. So does the rest of the country, but that issue is one of lack of adequate access to a defense and ineffective representation, not her ability to afford that representation.

Second, the disposition of Hilton's sentence shouldn't be predicated on how privileged she is. It wouldn't be right or proper for someone who's destitute to receive any harsher treatment or any favorable consideration in determining their sentence, and it's not right or proper for Hilton to be expected to suffer any harsher (or favorable) disposition of her sentence because of her privileged lifestyle.

Third, the disposition of her sentence is not within Hilton's personal control. That responsibility lies with those she's charged to represent her. She shouldn't be expected to accept any harsher disposition of her sentence than what is achieved, proffered, or imposed. If the decision is made by her advocates and the officials which happens to benefit her, she is perfectly entitled to take advantage of that.

Just because there may be disparities between the attention and accommodation she's receiving and that of others convicted who aren't fortunate enough to benefit from the maneuvering of high paid lawyers, doesn't mean that she shouldn't afford herself of all that. It does, however, speak volumes about the lack of adequate representation for those without similar resources. They should be afforded just as much representation as those with extraordinary means.

[cassiepriam]

1. I am trying really hard to conjure up some sympathy for Paris.

I am not making a lot of progress, but will keep working on it.

[bigtree]

2. she doesn't need our sympathy

she looks like she has a huge support base

[Warpy]

7. Money doesn't equate to happiness

although it's easier to focus on happiness when you're not worried about money and terrified for your immediate and long term future. I've worked in enough hospital VIP units to know how miserable and substance addicted some of the rich are. Without money to worry about, they're left staring at themselves in a mirror and realizing it's just not enough. Some look outside themselves and use their time and money to help others. Some don't have that ability and turn to anything they think will fill up that empty space: greed, sex, booze, drugs, gambling, jet setting--none of which work.

Hilton is not looking good these days. In fact, she looks downright ill. I hope she gets her act together and figures out something that will work for the rest of her life. If not, she's going to be just another beautiful corpse that had everything in life and couldn't use any of it.

[conspirator]

56. All I want in life is an opportunity to prove that money cant buy happiness...

now if I could just have the money, I'll show you.

[Warpy]

67. I've been rich and I've been poor

Poor is a little boring but a lot less complicated.

Rich requires a CPA.

Think about it.

[bryant69]

3. It's a bit like campaign finance reform in a wierd way.

I want to see stronger and tighter controls over campaign finance (public funding of all campaigns would be a good start), but as long as the rules remain lax and weak, I don't blame our candidates for taking and using the money - you fight on the battlefield you got, not the one you should have.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[bigtree]

10. interesting analogy

I'd be more comfortable with a debate about the limits of the law, in this case. I can see where crimes can be so extreme that a focus on the defendant is very much in order, but in this case, whatever occurred is the responsibility of the advocates and the authorities, and not so much on whatever disposition Hilton wanted *or was prepared to accept.

[dogday]

4. Maybe this will conjure some sympathy for her

It does nothing for me... You roll the dice, you take your chances...

[Breeze54]

8. LMAO!!

That picture is hilarious!!!! :rofl:

Thanks! :)

[King Coal]

20. Do you think it's funny to see her bawling?

She didn't mean to do it.

[Iris]

25. bawling or balling? n/t

[Breeze54]

28. That's what I posted, isn't it??

:shrug:

[DemSoccerMom]

37. I really hope

you left off the :sarcasm: and aren't in the least bit serious.

I take a lot of issue w/ drunk drivers (famous or not). When I was 15, a drunk driver hit the car I was riding in, killing my best friend and leaving me in a coma for 2 months.

No, she didn't kill or even harm anyone. But you know the saying: "There but for the Grace of God . . . "

IMO she needs some kind of reality check. I have no sympathy for her, and quite frankly, "she didn't mean to do it" doesn't wash w/ me. If she "didn't mean to do it," she would have either A) stopped drinking when she felt herself becoming intoxicated or B) NOT driven her car that night.

[jilln]

42. Not to mention

She then drove on a suspended license. Like she couldn't use a limo?

[marlakay]

11. Tell me who wouldn't cry going to jail?

I have no sympathy for a girl who drives while drinking and after her license is taken away when she clearly could afford a limo driver to take her wherever she goes and she can drink her pretty ass off>

[TahitiNut]

62. Compare ...

[question everything]

5. I wonder the same thing

If the same behavior were exhibited by, say, Jane Smith from Peoria - would she be sentenced to 20 days in jail?

On the other hand, the circus in LA, after the "slow chase" of OJ, the trials of Robert Blake and of Michael Jackson, and now an attorney reported that part of Mel Gibson report has been "cleaned" - one has to wonder.

Last, is Sheriff Bacca so stupid not to have realized the results of his actions? Shouldn't he at least consulted with the judge?

[aquart]

6. More like three months.

Poor pitiful rich girl treated the court like a coffee bar...someplace she could go or not as she pleased. Do you really think Jane Smith would have dared to do that?

The only thing Sheriff Baca is is bribed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. All I Care About Is That She Receives The Same Expected Fate As Anyone Else.

No one else would've been released for whatever supposed 'medical ailment' she has. I don't think she should do 45 days or whatever, but I think a minimum of 8 is required prior to me feeling satisfied that she wasn't given special treatment.

Other than that though, more power to her. 23-1 lockdown sucks.

[bigtree]

13. There is the question of whether it's proper for anyone to receive that treatment

if it is, I think the focus should be on why others without the same representation aren't being afforded the privilege. Also, there's no way that we could make an adequate judgment about her disposition from where we sit. With every case there are different circumstances which judges should be free to take into account that we just can't see from here.

[OzarkDem]

72. Repeated DUI is a serious offense

Innocent people can get killed and often do. Recall one of Paris' friends was recently busted for DUI while driving the wrong way on a freeway.

What I don't understand is why these wealthy kids who want to party don't just hire a limo to drive them around. Seems it would save them and everyone else a lot of problems.

[bigtree]

75. she did not repeat the DUI

she did violate the prohibition on driving.

That type of arrogance isn't restricted to just 'wealthy kids' though.

[qdemn7]

12. I don't..

It's clear from Simpson, Blake, Gibson and others that if you are a celebrity in LA County you will get a much different level of "Justice" than ordinary people. I have ZERO empathy or sympathy for any celeb that gets into any sort of criminally related legal trouble.

[bigtree]

14. I think the question is whether these rights/privileges should be available to everyone,

I don't think she needs our empathy.

[noamnety]

15. I have a huge problem with criticism of Hilton that's focused on her gender

This is not a critique of the OP in any way. It's more of a P.S. after seeing all sorts of gender slurs, photos posted of her half dressed, I suppose to demean her in a gender-related way, I don't know.

[Breeze54]

32. Perhaps you missed her video???

She's a real winner. :eyes:

[noamnety]

41. I deliberately missed her video.

Not sure why I'd want to see it.

My understanding was that it was something she made in private between consenting adults, and was published to the world without her consent.

So somebody exploited her. Why are we hating her for that?

I can't help wondering if the same people who are hateful toward her about that (as opposed to the myriad of legitimate reasons to dislike her) - if the same people who feel contempt for her because of that video - are the same people who proudly defend and justify porn as being something that empowers women.

I don't know why anyone would have watched the video ... it just seems so obvious to me that by watching it, you are deriving pleasure of some sort from the sexual exploitation of women.

I don't get that mentality.

[Breeze54]

45. I didn't watch it...it was partially on the news, all the news!

[noamnety]

49. Alright, so the news exploited her as well.

I don't watch enough tv that I caught that, but I still wouldn't hold that against her - still seems to me she did something in private with the intent and understanding that it would remain private.

Someone broke that trust.

Funny, I can't even remember who it was who broke that trust or leaked the tape, but it seems like in that whole episode, they should be the target of the contempt, not her.

I'm all about having contempt because she is lazy, because of the DUI, because she has contempt for working people, because her lifestyle harms the environment. I just don't get the genderhate.

I have more contempt for people that opted to download and watch the video than I do for her for appearing in it. The viewers made a conscious decision to join in the exploitation.

[Breeze54]

52. She exploited the video herself and went on Letterman to discuss it!!

It was a PR stunt to launch her career!!

[noamnety]

69. I haven't seen that claim, that she made it in order to launch her career.

Admittedly, I'm not up on my paris trivia.

Some googling shows she was 19 when it was filmed. 19 year olds do a lot of dumb shit. Poor judgment, perhaps, but she was under the impression it was for personal use, not public consumption.

When it was released, she sued.

She donated the settlement money to charity.

Once she was in the public eye, she made the most of that. Making the most of a situation she didn't ask for and was incapable of stopping is not the same as it being a "PR stunt."

I still don't get it. I do get that anyone who is pro-porn who has contempt for her for having made a private video with a boyfriend that was then stolen and sold is a dreadful hypocrite. Not saying you fall into that category, I don't know your stance on porn at all, just saying I'm willing to bet a number of folks here do fit that bill.

[Breeze54]

71. Her show was announced soon after. Nobody knew who she was

before that. You do the math.

[noamnety]

76. the math:

she tried to make lemonade out of lemons.

Like I said, she didn't ask for that situation to happen. She sued when it did. She donated the proceeds to charity.

I don't know what you want exploited women to do. Make the best of it? Make the worst of it?

Is there a proper way to respond to instant notoriety occurring in the form of millions of people watching you have sex cause someone published a tape made in private?

I'm sorry she didn't respond to being victimized in one of your pre-approved ways. Hopefully future victims will check in with you before deciding on the proper lady-like reaction.

[Breeze54]

78. I think you are naive'.

[noamnety]

79. Thanks for that thoughtful contribution to the discussion. (nt)

[Breeze54]

80. You seem to think all the PR is innocent.

That makes you naive' and gullible, in my book.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

16. Hilton, a nice big distraction for the public

what else is the American publlic going to talk about around the water coolers (now that american Idol has finished?)

[bigtree]

17. I'm always amazed at our capacity

to think, do, and care about several things at once

The media, on the other hand . . .

[freesqueeze]

18. So you think the wealthy get tougher sentences?!?

How are things on planet opposite?

[bigtree]

21. didn't say that, now did I, freesqueeze

no I don't think the wealthy get tougher sentences. Nor, should they, as some would suggest by their comments. (point of post)

[hlthe2b]

19. Darlin... you are talking directly into gale forced winds.....

But, there is no possibility of leveling the playing field any time soon, no matter how idealistic we all might be. In lieu of that, yes, she IS getting special treatment... But, I give ya credit for trying to defend her, though....'Afraid I am left with pretty much.... :nopity:

[bigtree]

22. I'm defending the right of those without the same level of representation

to have the same access (and 'privilege) as those with the means, despite any inability to afford that level of advocacy.

[hlthe2b]

35. We would all defend that... What, pray tell, are you doing to

accomplish that? Talk is cheap...:shrug:

[bigtree]

39. this is a discussion

on a discussion board . . . talk is the currency here

[AndyA]

23. Whenever I begin to feel a small bit of sympathy for Paris,

I think about her driving drunk, at night, speeding, with no headlights on. She put everyone she came in contact with at that point in danger. She could have killed someone.

No sympathy. We know she could afford to order up a Limo to take her home if she wanted to.

[bigtree]

26. She doesn't need your sympathy

Your point about drunk driving was well taken, but there is a good reason why there are ways to mitigate these dispositions, both from the advocates' point of view and from the institution's. She was sentenced under whatever guidelines the judge was allowed and thought necessary. She was released under whatever guidelines the sheriff thought he was charged with.

Whatever the outcome, she is under the authority of the court and accountable for her crime, so far.

[Az_lefty]

24. she brought all this on her self...

if she had simply followed the courts direction after her DUI all this would have ended right there. The sentence is just, in that anyone that thumbs their nose at the court is going to pay a heavier price than if they simply follow directions. By the way, 20 days in jail ain't near as bad as having to face the consequences of having killed someone while driving drunk. She's actually very lucky young woman.

[bigtree]

29. I agree that she should have just followed the directions of the court

But I have no way at all, from here of knowing enough about her life and her character to make the judgments which the authorities who have all of that information have made. Each case is handled differently, within the guidelines and the law.

[Midlodemocrat]

27. I don't have an issue with her money. I DO, however, have an issue

with the fact that she apparently thought getting a DUI was no big deal and so continued to drive with a suspended license. Additionally, her mother apparently thinks that Paris, because of said money, should be above the law.

After losing a dear friend, father of two to a drunk driver who walked away unscathed, I would like her to receive the harshest punishment allowed by law.

[bigtree]

30. that makes sense

very sad about your loss

[Midlodemocrat]

33. Thank you, bigtree. Very kind of you.

[Breeze54]

34. I do!!! She makes fun of poor people!!

She's a total C!!! She thinks her shit doesn't stink BECAUSE she has a rich Daddy!!

[noamnety]

43. DU Rules refresher

members should avoid using racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise bigoted terminology. This includes gender-specific terms ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

An abbreviated bigoted term is still a bigoted term. Even if the speaker is female.

[Breeze54]

44. Why don't you

back off???? :grr:

[noamnety]

47. I'm very persistent

about speaking out against bigotry. Sorry if that bothers you. :shrug:

[Breeze54]

48. No, you think it's your place to 'correct' others.

Most of what's been said by all about her is stuff she herself has said on talk shows etc.

She thinks it's funny as it gets her more attention!

[noamnety]

50. I was just quoting the rules there.

They specify the terms used against her as "bigoted terminology."

Anyone who doesn't want to be classified as using bigoted terminology here should probably read the detailed rules, and find out what falls within the definition of bigoted terminology on DU.

[DixieBlue]

46. I'll just park here.

Because this is how I feel as well.

I've also lost someone because of a drunk driver and this whole situation infuriates me.

[bullwinkle428]

53. HEAR, HEAR!! Drunk driving in general is not taken seriously enough

in this country, in my opinion! :applause:

[aikoaiko]

31. spoiled.....

First, I have not seen anyone argue she should have less than best defense. If so, please provide a link.

Second, sentences routinely respond to the attitude of the convicted and execising one's privelege based on wealth and celebrity is partly based on attitude.

Third, she 100% responsible for those who represent her and accepting her consequences.

Comparisons of sentences of different convicts are commonly done in the judicial system to determine appropriateness of sentences.

[bigtree]

36. I guess I don't have the will to pour through threads for an example

so I'll say I'm responding to an inference that her wealth and flaunting should be held against her in the disposition of her sentence. I really don't think her attitude toward her wealth or celebrity has any bearing at all on the charges. But, I really can't see from here what the authorities have in evidence which they used to make their judgment.

I wouldn't expect Hilton, or anyone else to lend themselves to any harsher sentence or disposition than was obtained or handed down from authorities.

[dogday]

38. Paris is ordered by to jail

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time...

[bigtree]

40. no question- eom

[MadHound]

51. Her wealth and celebrity status aside

I think that she received a sentence that is remarkably similar to those of lesser wealth and status who've done virtually the same crimes.

I think that this is what is bothering Paris, her family and supporters, that she is getting treated equally under the law. For a long time, wealth and status have bought many, many favors from the law, and she was expecting the same in this instance. Perhaps this is a sea change in the judiciary:shrug:

[Breeze54]

54. She was let off - unlike the rest of the public!

How is that fair? :shrug:

[MadHound]

59. Let off of what, the DUI charge?

That's actually quite common unless you're poor and can't afford a lawyer. Is it fair, no, but it is still within the spectrum of "normal" within our current legal system. Instead she was put on probation for a reckless driving charge, with fine and classes. Again, this is pretty standard fare. Her pop for driving on a suspended license resulted in not only that charge, but also violating her probation, which is why she is going to jail. Again, pretty standard fair. I imagine that the suspension of her license probably just doubled too.

Is this perfect, I don't know. I would have to see why they dropped the DUI in favor of the reckless driving. But this is pretty standard American justice, and think that's Paris' whole problem, she thought that she was above all of that.

[Breeze54]

65. She was let out of jail! She violated her probation.

Unlike many, many in the USA, she only served 78 hours of a 45 day sentence!!

[MadHound]

77. Yes, I realize that.

I was simply speaking of her sentence and treatment by the judge. Yes I realize that she was release early(which in crowded jurisdictions isn't all that uncommon). However that was corrected by the judge, which I wholeheartedly approve of.

[Swamp Rat]

55. Paris Hilton™ is an effective distraction.

[WiseButAngrySara]

60. As is almost EVERYTHING this grotesque excuse for media

circus news is. SHAME on all of them. Covering a rich WHORE when we have major corruption in government and we ARE AT WAR!!!!! SHAME on all of them!

[Swamp Rat]

63. Calm down... take the pink octagon pills... watch TV... sleeeeeep ... obey.

Big Brother Loves You.

[WiseButAngrySara]

64. ROFL!! So funny, Swamp Rat. You DID make me laugh.

And Not Wise Sara was REALLY getting ANGRY!

[Swamp Rat]

66. good!!

:hug:

[WiseButAngrySara]

68. Back at you dear Swampie! If there was even 1/1.000,000,000 th

the attention of this as on the current state of NOLA and Katrina victims, for example, don't you think that would be a much more productive, and in the short AND long term, more cost effective than covering this hideous brat?

:hug: times 10 raised to the billionth power!

[WiseButAngrySara]

57. This post makes me ill. She is a rich whining WHORE! She should

never have received any kind of media attention, and now it is "BREAKING NEWS" when this spoiled brat gets the treatment she deserves and the SICK M$M thrives on? Anyone who supports this pathetic CREATURE is on my suspicion list forever.

[bigtree]

70. fuckin put it on ignore then for shitsakes. You missed the point, anyway

who says we have to support or not support someone to expect the law and the system to operate the way it should?

The point is that it's not so much about what Hilton received because of her wealth and privilege, as it is about the majority in the system without the same access to resources who aren't afforded the same consideration.

And fuck your 'suspicion list'. What a pathetic notion.

[firefox_fan]

58. Historically, women have received much lighter sentences in murder cases

At least until recently... Read the book "Women who kill" for an interesting historical perspective.

[WiseButAngrySara]

61. You know what? Hilton is NOT the preacher's wife, but she was

recently spotted with The Bible and one of my favorites, The Power of Now! Are you getting your cases confused? She could have murdered someone with her drunk driving, and may have killed someone with STD's, but ??

[Cleita]

73. How about focusing on her stupidity.

She can well afford to hire cars, limos, cabs or drivers while her license was suspended. That being said, I do feel jail time for being a petulant brat is a draconian abuse of justice.

[bigtree]

74. people do stupid things

she's obviously no exception. I always tell folks to just do what the judge says and in months they'll be out from under it, but many usually don't comply. That sort of stupidity doesn't seem to be a trait that's exclusive with wealth or privilege.