So now LA county is screwed

[Jed Dilligan]

I can hardly wait for Hilton vs. LA County. It's always fun to watch millions of dollars that could have gone to desperately needed human assistance programs go up in smoke.

Yes, the county deserves to be sued for the way it treats inmates. Yes, the conditions in its jail system violate the human and civil rights of every single inmate. Yes, it survives by housing only the 99.9999999999% of the population who can't out-lawyer it.

Sheriff Baca probably deplores these facts of life more than anyone here. The absolutely hideous disgustingness of our legal and penal system does not start with him. It starts at the top. His job is to keep the system running and he did what he had to do. Wanna get mad? Write your rep in DC and ask why he or she still supports the fascistic War on Drugs.

Do you really want to see LA county's money disappear into the pockets of Hiltons and lawyers? I don't. The judge should have shut up and left her in her mansion. It would serve a greater good than jailing her, leaving the county vulnerable whilst engorging this hideous circus of schadenfreude.

By the way: Peter Pace was fired today. Check out William Pitt's thread.

[aquart]

1. Thank you for your concern.

Your defense of the rich and their lawyers is noted.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Oh, I smell a very clever plot brewing. A conspiracy amongst rich people.

Next, they're going to bomb Iran to distract us from Paris Hilton's lawsuit against the L.A. Correctional facility.

[Jed Dilligan]

11. Huh?

Search on my name aquart. You will find me attacking police, lawyers, the jail and justice system pretty consistently.

I'm not defending the rich or their lawyers. In fact, I hope they all catch a hideous disease that is borne only in some luxury product and disappear off the face of the earth tomorrow.

That's not happening, though. And neither is Paris Hilton suing LA County going to improve conditions for the poor and homeless people its jail system constantly abuses. It's just going to drain off money and screw more poor people.

[hlthe2b]

3. Right... so we should never ever ever try to impose justice

on a wealthy, influential, celebrity or politico.....RIGHHHHHHHHT :eyes:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

6. Incredibly misplaced personal attack....

She was put in solitary for her protection--in the medical unit. The OP suggests the county should consider the possibility of facing a lawsuit before prosecuting an influential weathy individual. I disagree with that premise, but said NOTHING about whether her previous or current sentence is appropriate. I have not weighed in on that at all.

Yet, you reply to me: "Does the hate just make you feel all warm inside?" :wtf:

I think that is sufficient reply, given your level of discourse.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. My apologies - there is another poster with a slew of consonants

that start with a small 'h' who has been posting extraordinarily hateful comments about her. If that was not you, then the comment should not have been aimed at you.

[Maraya1969]

8. Why was your license suspended? Hilton's was for a DUI which I believe

is seriously important. I don't agree with our system of shoving people into jails all the time and I think they might have done better to send her to a rehab or alcohol class but I have truly seen some people get their shit together who refused to do so; after sitting in jail for several weeks.

I may be wrong but I think drunk driving deaths have lessoned since stiffer controls have been in place.

[depakid]

19. Actually, she plead down to a "wet reckless"

which changes the mandatory penalties for driving while suspended to a mandatory 5 days on the 1st offense and a mandatory 10 days on the 2nd.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d06/vc14601.htm

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. Three speeding tickets in 12 months.

I was young and stupid - what can I say?

And yes, DUI is serious. But when she caught driving suspended whe was not DUI. If she'd been DUI again, fine, throw the book at her. I myself favor permanent revocation of the license on a 2nd conviction - no messing around, no driving for the rest of your life. But she is young and dumb and apparently some advisor told her it was OK, tho I can't imagine what the justification was. Driving suspended is, still, a rather minor offense in and of itself.

It is true that drunk driving deaths are down - I don't tend to attribute that to the harsher punishments - if you are drunk enough to cause an accident you are generally too drunk to worry about the punishment for driving drung. Rather, we boomers are all grown up, and 50% of all drunk driving accidents are caused by people under 25, therefore both the rate and the true number of drunk driving deaths is bound to decline.

[mitchtv]

14. Oh Brother,wrong of course, Violation of terms of probation

You act as if it were some casual trangression. She willfully ignored the conditions that got her on probation to begin with. And Oh yeah. It is not a few years ago, not the first time, and not NC. If that were me, it wouldn't be an anklet.

[Jed Dilligan]

13. Should and could are two different things.

If this were happening in a podunk state like Colorado, they could punish her. They probably have a nice, clean jail somewhere near you where people aren't jammed into offices, gyms, and hallways, exposed to TB and Hep C daily, and treated like cattle by Nazi thug guards.

The system here is completely broken, and jailing Paris Hilton for show is not going to fix it.

[hlthe2b]

20. Couldn't resist referring to my state, CO as a "podunk" state, eh...

I think that says it all. You clearly don't have a clue. :eyes:

[Jed Dilligan]

24. Are overcrowded jails a major problem there?

What's the population density?

Sorry to be so negative but you came at me swinging.

[hlthe2b]

45. You betcha

as they are throughout the US...Ditto the problems with violence, Hepatitis C and other infectious spread, drugs, and lack of adequate medical care. As a public health official, I can assure you I know. Even the most sparsely populated state, Wyoming, has a state prison system that is absolutely overcrowded and facing similar issues. LA's problems are by no means unique, however magnfied they may be by proportion or magnitude. And, certainly when you look at the nation's jails, I doubt you'll find any municipality or large county that isn't facing near crisis.

[Madspirit]

42. I KNOW!

In a particularly violent episode in the sixth season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, these bikers think they are destroying Buffy. It's really just a robot Buffy. Anyway, they tie each of her legs and arms to a different motorcycle and then all drive off, pulling her apart. That would be cool. We could do that to Paris. First though, with a red hot poker, we should beat her some AND cut off her hair and brand her with a scarlet "S" for "shame". The more painful the better, I always say.


NO ONE SHOULD BE LOCKED UP FOR A NON-VIOLENT CRIME. It serves NO purpose and shrinks have proven time and again, this form of behaviorism has NO lasting effect.

...but it's all just fun because hey, she isn't even a real person. She's just someone we can torture...woohoohooo....
Lee

[wakeme2008]

4. I would look for Sheriff Baca to retire to spend more time with his family

on Monday. :shrug:

[Jed Dilligan]

17. You're probably right.

People in broken systems often face lose-lose situations, and this is one of them. I think he did what's best for the county, but people here would rather see one stupid idiot suffer than avoid a huge and costly boondoggle.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. In California, do people on house arrest pay for the costs of the

monitoring program? I know in some states they do, which is one reason it is not used more extensively - if you can't afford the program, you sit in jail. She can certainly afford the program, opening that jail space up for someone else.

Was that the logic of it?

[Jed Dilligan]

34. Yes, you pay for monitoring in CA

That's not the real issue IMO... The real issue is that the LA County jail system doesn't have any units that could withstand a Hilton-funded lawsuit. Which would be much worse for the county than one stupid brat getting a light sentence.

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. True - if something should happen to her inside her lawyers

could wind up draining millions from the funds needed to make the system barely bearable.

[Jed Dilligan]

38. DING DING DING

I must not be at my most communicative today.... But it's nice that someone finally understands what I'm trying to say in this misbegotten thread.

[LisaL]

44. What is going to happen to her?

She is in her very own jail cell.

[RaleighNCDUer]

50. It's called isolation. It's not a private cell, it's being in isolation for

23 hours a day - for her own protection, sure, but it is what it is.

It is one the techniques used in Gitmo to break prisoners - disallow all contact with the outside, seeing only the jailer. Generally regarded as torture. For the 20% of the population who are introverts, who easily tolerate isolation, it's not such a big thing. For the 80% who are extroverts, who require human contact for their own well being, it can bring on a breakdown in a matter of days. I've seen nothing about her that suggests she is an introvert.

Keeping her in jail gives them two options - put her in general population where she would be in physical danger because of her celebrity, or keep her in protective isolation, which can produce a mental breakdown.

Which kind of torture do you prefer?

[LisaL]

52. Oh give me a freaking break.

Torture?
Spending 23 days in jail is torture now? Tell it to all the other inmates/prisoners.
Maybe they would like to go free.

[RaleighNCDUer]

54. no,

23 hours a day in fucking isolation is torture. If she was a POW, it would violate the Geneva conventions.

you obviously have no concept of what is being discussed.

[jgraz]

7. Wow, with that reasoning you have a job waiting for you in the Speaker's office

We can't stand up to the rich and powerful! They might do something mean!! We need a veto-proof majority!!! :banghead:

[Jed Dilligan]

9. You read me wrong

LA County should be sued for the way it treats inmates. By a poor person.

A lawsuit by Paris Hilton will not produce any systemic change. It will just drain off money from the county. That's my point.

[jgraz]

22. I think they should sell tickets and hand out eggs and tomatoes at the door

That would bring in some much needed funds.

[Initech]

12. Crap like this is why I'm embarrassed to live in Southern California.

I love my state but really, when a celeb like Paris Hilton repeatedly breaks the law and gets no punishment because she has money, it sickens me to no end. I hope the judge got so pissed off that he makes an example out of her. :argh:

[Jed Dilligan]

15. So

it pisses you off more that celebrities often get easy sentences, than that the jail in your hometown is in some ways worse than a Nazi concentration camp?

[Initech]

25. WTF kind of comparison is that?

I didn't say that jails were equivalent to nazi concentration camps. What pisses me off is how the media pays constant attention to celebrities and treats them like royalty. When they get arrested repeatedly, as in Paris Hilton's case, why should they get different treatment from everybody else?

And what makes you think Paris Hilton is the first time this has happened?

[Jed Dilligan]

26. I don't think you understand me at all

I'll put it in simpler terms: The outrage at how Paris Hilton is NOT being treated should be outrage over how the county's mostly indigent inmates ARE being treated.

And this show trial is only going to make things worse for them.

[Initech]

28. I stand corrected.

That is a good point. Paris' subsequent re-arrest and trial is going to garner more media attention than the average inmate, who typically gets treated like shit. It sucks.

[Jed Dilligan]

30. It's really frightening to me

how people think rape, starvation, lack of medical care, exposure to deadly diseases, and nightmarish overcrowding are just the way we punish criminals.

We should be focused on reforming the penal system to such a degree that Paris Hilton could be accommodated in it, as she SHOULD be, without exposing the county to a disastrous lawsuit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Jeff she is in the special housing unit

for god sakes... that is hardly the kind of treatment 99.9999 of the prison population gets

And yes, SHE DOES belong in there, and exactly what will the cause for the lawsuit, her serving her sentence?

For god sakes she is not above the law, nor better than I am

If she stays in her mansion I guess I can use the Paris Hilton defense too

[Jed Dilligan]

18. Have you been in SHU

It's pretty fucked. My point is anyone in there could sue, legally, but most can't financially. I would like to see a class action suit by poor inmates or federal action to improve conditions in the jail. The inevitable lawsuit in this case won't help anyone but Court TV.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Jeff several points I am going to adress here

the unit is NOT a concentration camp, as a daughter of a holocaust survivor, no it is not... far from it...

Second, the SHU is a shit hole, so is any other part of the prison

Third, I have seen the insides of jails and though I do not condone isolation, she would be in quite a bit of PHYSICAL danger among the general population... and the jails I have seen the insides off make LA County like like the Hilton...

Fourth, she is in this pickle because of her repeated breaking of the law

Fifth, all jails in this coutry, not only LA County, could use some reforms... but LA is far from the worst out there... I can think of a jail in Miracopa County if you know what I mean

Oh and having been in jails and having treated people IN JAILS, part of her problem is that this is real punishment... she's hever had to deal with this

Oh and I have no simpathy for drunk drivers, by the way

But you are confusing several issues here... prison conditions are meant to be shitty... even if we could and should reform them to a point

[Jed Dilligan]

23. I don't care one way or another

about her, this is going to be bad for the county.

I disagree with your fundamental penal theory. I think jails are to isolate people from society. They shouldn't be physical punishment in and of themselves.

If you want physical punishment for offenders, lobby for the law to be changed. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing Paris taking forty lashes on her expensively moisturized bottom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. As I said, you are confusing issues

yes jails have problems

And no I am not for physical punishment, but in HER case, she cannot be housed with the general population... for her own damn safety

As to penal theory, I have not stated any

Ideally, if you truly care, our penal system should REFORM those in the system and OFFER education and training, since 99.9 of all prisoners will rejoin society. Some penal systems in the US do this alraedy, though less and less, since we have fundamental swings every generation or so...

but you were the one comparing LA County to a NAZI concentration camp and that is quite over the top.

Now if you compared Guantamo, no beef from me, I can even tell you which one (Bergen Belsen)

[Jed Dilligan]

31. Okay, I'll take back the Nazi comparison

Minus that, we're not really disagreeing here... Except that I really don't think LA county has any facilities that are lawsuit-proof, and that's ultimately why the sheriff sent her home.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Its not LA County

it is the whole penal system

Jais ARE overcrowded nation wide.

And that alone speaks volumes as to where we are as a nation

But in her particular case, if it was you or me, we would serve, our full term in general population

That is what burns people

[Jed Dilligan]

35. Sure, having been an inmate myself

I feel the burn, but it's totally unproductive.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. As I said the system needs reform

In fact, extensive reforms, starting with prisons for low risk immates that are far less punishing than what we have... (the law and order crowd will not have that... they applaud Miracopa Sheriff for his treatmnet of low risk immates) Oh and I personally would get rid of the death penalty nation wide... with one excpetion, high treason/ war crimes... not becuzse it has any deterrent factors, far from it.

but there is no cause for a lawsuiti in this case

if they sue, I hope the judge throws the book at them for wasting the court's time

She should not be in this mess if she followed the rules after the first slap in the wrist which you and I would not have gotten

And that is part of the problem

And yes, I have never been a convict, but as an EMS worker I truly saw jails south of the border that make ours look like country clubs, with all their problems, serious.

[Jed Dilligan]

40. One small correction

I don't think there is any cause for a lawsuit YET... Which is why I think Baca made a good-for-the-county but bad-for-his-career move by shipping her home. In 45 days, something will happen that will expose the county--mark my words.

Also, I think comparing Mexican jails might be unfair... Are the conditions there as much worse as the country is poorer? Or more so?

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. No it is not unfair to compare them

jails can be hellish places... and actually maricopa can be compared to Mexican jails

That said, after what happened, I don't think any intelligent will take a case, unless she dies or suffers any other SERIOUS injury

[Madspirit]

39. Stone Her; Kill Her; Make her Bloody...woohoohoo

I am just going to post this on every single Paris thread. Why try for originality. No one really listens anyway. Their blood lust has filled their ears. I will add an additional paragraph to this one.

I was almost killed by a drunk driver. ...a seventy-five mile an hour head on collision. I was unconscious for over over 12 hours and my face was swollen even with my nose. I could barely move for weeks I was so battered and bruised and torn all to hell. I was almost killed. 30 years later I still have light scars from that wreck. I was sober. The drunk who hit me walked away with barely a scratch. Still, I am an alcoholic, 15 years sober, so I understand the pull of that addiction. It IS a disease. Period. Undebatable. A Fact.

If I had my way no non-violent offender would go to jail. Not the poor, not the rich. No non-violent offender would go to jail.

If I was the judge I would sentence her to something more meaningful and something that might actually sink in. I am BIG on community service. I would have her work on a soup line feeding the homeless, EVERY day. ...and she couldn't make her maids do it for her. I would make her visit the morgue several times and drive around with EMT folks, seeing just what can really happen when you drive drunk...some therapy...some drying out...getting off the alcohol and drugs...take her license, etc. There are much better ways to make an impression that REALLY lasts, on a person, than locking them up. ...and isn't, ultimately, the purpose to make sure they never do it again. If she wouldn't comply I would commit her to rehab. Alcoholism is even a disease when it hits the rich.

I have also been locked up. I can't express to folks here, the horror of it. I would rather go through the wreck again than spend another night in jail. The life I've led, nuthouses, abusive parents, leaving home at 15, being homeless for YEARS at a time, two years in a state nuthouse in Texas, 35 years ago with stories that would make your hair stand on end and jail time, etc...and nothing in all of that, stands out like the jail time and it was never for more than a couple of days at a time. I just cannot express sufficiently, evidently, the horror of jail.

Also, the many times I've been in jail, I ALWAYS pulled a "my stomach...I think it's my appendix..." to get a few hours away at a hospital, cuffed to a gurney, it's true but still more pleasant than jail. I have also broken the terms of my probation and did NOT end up back in jail. They simply added some new hoops to jump through.

...and the blood lust over here makes me ill.

Lee

[Jed Dilligan]

41. Good post.... glad you survived your jailings

I've only done a few days here and there, thank someone.... But it was enough to make me understand that the system is wrong, wrong, wrong, no matter how bad the offender. It's not supposed to be a physical punishment.

If you want physical punishment--campaign to have the laws changed.

[LisaL]

43. What physical punishment?

She got her own freaking jail cell. No one else is in there except for her.

[Madspirit]

47. Yeah because guards NEVER abuse inmates..hahahaha..n/t

[LisaL]

53. Far from abusing her, seems to me everybody in that jail

was bending over backwards to make her comfortable.

[Jed Dilligan]

48. I'm done answering apologists for the system,

but thanks for the :kick:

:hi:

[Madspirit]

46. It IS Funny

I think the two of us are the only two here who have actually been IN jail and lo and behold, we are two of the only here who do not support sending Paris to jail. Funny that. I love how these people so cavalierly are willing to take someone's freedom and yet have never had theirs taken.
Lee

[LisaL]

51. Well, most people haven't been in jail because they haven't

broke any laws. Think about that.