Anybody listening to the "Ring of Fire"? They are saying that the torture

[Cleita]

at Abu Ghraib was worse than any media was willing to report. That many detainees were murdered. They also said (Robert Kennedy, Jr. and Mike Pappantonio) that the orders go all the way back to Rumsfeld and Bush.

What are we waiting for? These two ghouls need to be charged with war crimes and put on trial for this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Until the country stands up

I hold no hope

Look people THINK they are free... just like most good Germans

[seemslikeadream]

2. Haven't members of Congress seen photos

not made public?

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. 109th not 110th

and... tell me are they rushing to bring them to accountability?

In some ways, just as with Watergate, it is up to us to raise the ruckus

But from what I see today... we have fringes (on both sides), and a center that is too busy trying to make a living, who beleives it is free and who will not do a thing...

Too scared, to narcotized, anomie, whatever name you want to call it

There is actually a better chance of the fringes donig something dramatic than the center demanding accountabity

That is the sad reality

And the paralells to Nazi Germany, social and otherwise, are just plain out scary

[Cleita]

7. That's for sure. I keep rereading chapters in "The Rise And

Fall of the Third Reich". Each time the parallels to what is happening now become more and more alike and alarming. Look how it ended. Hitler was deliberately leading the German people over a cliff and they kept following him.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

36. A big problem is the media - how does the word get out & this all proven?

n/t

[truedelphi]

40. That was my understanding

Some Congress person had said that when the full story came out, the American public would be shocked

That was some time ago, and whoever was commenting made it seem as though it was imminent.

There was also a whisper that some of what would be revealed would be related to the rape of young children detainees.

Does anyone else here remember just who it was that was saying that?

[Cleita]

42. When they spoke of sodomizing with batons they

didn't mention children. If this is true, we as a people, really have to be horrified and more so demanding that they be brought to justice.

[truedelphi]

44. Sy Hersh reported this -- See post #16 n/t

[tbyg52]

60. The *public* would be shocked?!

Then why weren't the Congresspeople who saw these photos first (I have not seen them--are they online?) demanding investigations that went as far up as necessary? It's amazing and disgusting what they and we have come to tolerate.

[hedgehog]

4. Whatever happened to the video that was supposed to be out there?

I can't remember the name of the journalist who supposedly had it, Robert ?

[seemslikeadream]

5. Sy Hersh I think

[hedgehog]

10. That's the fellow!

I had a mind block bt him and Robert Kagen.

[The Magistrate]

6. It Is Well Known, Ma'am

That dozens of persons have died in U.S. custody, and in most instances military coroners have labeled the deaths homicide.

[Cleita]

8. So why aren't they investigating and bringing the perpetrators

to justice. Even if it is the lowly contractor or military interrogator doing this, following orders, they should be put under oath so that their superiors can be exposed all the way up to the President, or so it would seem to me in more normal times than these.

[Vincardog]

13. because "they" are the DOJ wrong headed by AlFi (bush toady) Gonzo

[Cleita]

18. Well, I don't think we can wait on this until they get rid of Gonzo.

It's time to act now. There has to be a judicial branch, even if it's not federal, to tackle this. Our country needs to get rid of this pus of an administration that we are under right now.

[Vincardog]

23. So are you bringing a CIVIL action?

[Cleita]

25. Not me. No money, however, if many of us brought a class action

civil suit, I would certainly chip in what I could to cover the cost. Thanks for the idea although I know it wasn't your intent. Anyone out there up to organizing something like this, like a lawyer for instance?

[Vincardog]

30. IF you are interested in taking this further search of Bush RICO action

Or just click this link
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1061387 >

[Cleita]

31. Thank you. Bookmarked for further research. n/t

[The Magistrate]

17. They Ought To Be, Ma'am

It is something the next administration ought to consider seriously doing: there is no reasonable doubt the current one has violated the Geneva Accords, and been so incautious as to leave a paper trail demonstrating the crimes were directed explicitly from its highest levels. Violating the Geneva Accords is a violation of U.S. law as well, and ought to be prosecuted in Federal courts.

[Cleita]

20. If the Gonzoed Federal courts won't do this we need to find

those with jurisdiction than will.

[pstans]

9. Seymour Hersch has reported on it as being worse

There were photos and video that a judge ordered them to be released and they have to be released. This was a over a year ago.

[Cleita]

12. The guys told of some of it

like jumping up and down on a prisoners leg until it broke and then jumping on it some more, sodomizing them with batons, sexually assaulting a sixteen year old girl on video, and more really disgusting stuff, but the worst was those who died in custody and were essentially murdered that as another poster said the coroners verified that they were killed. All these were ordered by Rumsfeld and Bush.

[RedSock]

56. also

i also recall reading that several women had been able to get notes summgled out that said many of them had been raped by their captors and were now pregnant (and suicidial).

[stellanoir]

16. Yup waiting for the additional evidence to be released was a mild form of torture itself

The date kept getiing pushed back and then the whole issue disappeared.

Some Congress critters had seen them.

Sy Hersh said the worst was the audios of young kids screaming whilst they were being sodomized sometimes in front of one or both parents.

These so called people have legalized and made acceptable inexcusable sadism and would appear to think it's okay whilst masquerading as people of great faith.

Sickeningly reprehensible.

Heinously illegal.

[hootinholler]

24. Here's the latest as of January...

Torture Related Documents Released (1/10/2007)

Documents from the Department of Defense released by the ACLU 1/10/2007. (For more torture documents released under the ACLU's FOIA, go to www.aclu.org/torturefoia)

These Department of Defense declarations claim to explain why it cannot publicly disclose numerous documents relating to prisoner abuse.

It's outrageous! We have to assume that it is still being done.

There are 26 US citizens being tried in absentia in Italy right now over rendition.

-Hoot

[fooj]

11. What sickens me...

is that many of us have known that the orders went back to Rumsfeld and Bush yet NOBODY holds these rat bastards accountable. For anything. It's absolutely criminal and a complete abdication of our Rep's responsibilities. Sometimes I feel as though these pathological liars will never pay for the crimes they have committed. I haven't given up hope but it sure hasn't been easy. Sigh.......

[Cleita]

15. I'm also wondering, if Robert Kennedy, Jr., knows about this

and is talking about it, surely uncle Teddy (Edward Kennedy) knows. Why, as a senior senator, isn't he moving against BushCo about this? Or is he, and we aren't privvy to what is going on? It's time to start lighting fires under these senators especially with elections coming up.

[pushycat]

35. fooj - you state my feelings of nausea that we may never

see justice prevail over those individuals responsible for the Iraq war. What seems likely to me is we all (US) will be held accountable on the world stage for not doing enough to govern our country away from this madness. Our soldiers, our country, deserve a just war to fight - otherwise we all pay the consequences.

[Cleita]

43. We only pay for the consequence if we ignore it.

It's time to stop this irrational war and the Nazi-like people who perpetrate it, not to mention the torture that they have done because of it.

[CrispyQ]

48. Every day I lose a little bit of my hope.

This thread has been particularly depressing.

[ClayZ]

14. K and R

[Hamlette]

19. I've heard 110 were tortured to death in custody from reliable blogs but not MSM

are there more?

[still_one]

21. I wouldn't count on the Democrats doing anything, and the MSM carries the water for bushco

It has been about six months since the Democrats took over Congress, and not much has really happened.

The perfect example is Gonzallez. He has committed purjury under oath to Congress, and tried to influence someone's testomony, i.e. witness tampering, and what are they going to do? Vote on Monday a no confidence vote on the attorney general. Big deal. There is no way gonzalez will step down. Congress could impeach him but they won't

Right now this administration is laughing at the Democrats in Congress.

Come on Hillary, let me hear you tell us in the debates how bush has made it safer since 9/11 in the U.S.

We are sooooooo screwed

[EFerrari]

22. What ARE we waiting for? Permission?

THIS MUST STOP NOW. NOW.

:nuke:

[Cleita]

32. A big prod up the backsides of our Congress, I think. n/t

[NewJeffCT]

51. Team Bush has put the kibosh on their release

if I'm not mistaken. They've blocked the release at every turn... watch them release the pics in December of 2008 or January of 2009 so the next president has to deal with the shit-storm

[EFerrari]

61. What a disgrace these felons are to our government. n/t

[The Stranger]

26. Is the Democratic majority in Congress doing anything to investigate?

How about another one of those non-binding resolutions or something?

[Cleita]

27. Apparently not.

This is the page I bring up on Google when I asked that question.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Is+Congress+doing+anything+to+investigate+the+deaths+from+torture+at+Abu+Ghraib%3F&btnG=Google+Search

[Sonicmedusa]

28. Unfortunately, the average Amercan have "dehumanized" Iraqis and Islamics

in much the same way German citizens "dehumanized" Jews during WWII.

They don't care, and they are not going to do shit.

It is sad, but true. I don't even think they see children as humans.

[Cleita]

29. Something I haven't posted here until now involved a relative

with whom I brought up that we were torturing prisoners. The relative replied, "Good! They cut off people's dicks so they deserve to be tortured." I was so stunned I was caught off guard. I should have demanded to know where he got this information. I don't know where this came from, but apparently it must have been discussed in their circle of friends who got it somewhere, Fox News, maybe? Free Republic! I don't know but if justifications like this are being spread around by RW operatives, it's no wonder most people are looking the other way.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

33. THE WARMONGERS MUST THINGIFY ALL ENEMYS

THEN THEY CAN JUSTIFY ANY OBSCENITY.

[Catamount]

34. Absolutely in agreement! K&R

[Roland99]

37. Whatever happened to the photos/videos ordered released last summer?

[MannyGoldstein]

38. Don't Worry! The Brave Congressional Dems Are On Top Of This!

They'll stop at nothing to bring the wrongdoers to justice.

:rofl:

[NuttyFluffers]

39. Wheels on Fire... that song is hawt.

:smoke:

oh wait... you're talking about torture 'n radio 'n stuff. that's like thinking. thinking makes my head hurt...

[Cleita]

41. Hey Nutty

Haven't seen you around in awhile.

:hi:

[NuttyFluffers]

68. been doin finals. it was like thinking, too. it hurt

:hi:

i'm having a gas watching that everything is still "same ol' same ol'" in the land of DU. gonna channel Paris for a bit in honor of the current hysteria du jour. miss y'all in Astro/Alterna Heal group forum! send them my love!
:loveya:

[truedelphi]

45. Remember that the media has been controlled - Mary Mapes and

Dan Rather were given the heave ho at CBS - Obstensibly over the George W military service/AWOL story - but in actuality to do this:
A) Punish them for releasing the initial reports about Abu Gharib (Mapes was the first reporter to uncover and document that Little Shop of Horrors)
B) To stop them from their next project: the stolen election set up - which was Mapes/Rather's next agenda'ed item for October 2004
The Powers that be did not want it coming out that Nov 2004 was going to be an election set up that would match if not surpass the jidicial coup of 2000

Mapes and Rather did win the Peabody Award for their investigation into Abu Gharib

[NBachers]

46. RFK Jr. for AG

Let's keep asking each Democratic candidate if they would select Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as their Attorney General.

[rainy]

47. "Rape and murder," Blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane"

Found this paragraph at this site:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001218842

What is shown on the photographs and videos from Abu Ghraib prison that the Pentagon has blocked from release? One clue: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Congress last year, after viewing a large cache of unreleased images, "I mean, I looked at them last night, and they're hard to believe." They show acts "that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane," he added.

A Republican Senator suggested the same day they contained scenes of "rape and murder." Rumsfeld then commented, "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse."

They knew that if these pictures were released America would be cooked. I guess everyone put country before truth.

[Jackpine Radical]

49. Remember what Clinton did with all the Iran-Contra data he inherited?

Buried it in the name of national unity. What makes you think this lickspittle crowd is gonna be any more forthright in dragging the culprits out onto the public square?

[sellitman]

50. A big problem is "Chain Of Command.

Just who is going to rat out "Commander Guy" and his Dick?

Just won't happen.

It will always be the underlings taking responsibility.

[defendandprotect]

52. Torture is a threat to all of us

What they can do to any human being they can do to all of us.

Supposedly, the message of torture is directed to intimidate all of the population

and I'm quite sure it does.

In fact, with the many assassinations of our elected leaders, we can expect that it prevents true

leadership from arising.

The Anthrax attack on Democrats in Congress but one very clear message.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. We won't have protests because people don't know these things

Where do people get this sort of information? American Idol? The evening corporate news, which is so eager to keep these things hidden? The newspaper, which considers exposing such things to be a detriment?

I get my information by researching the net and reading Democratic Underground. Most people are just getting the propaganda form of news, via TV and newspaper.

And then also, Americans don't really sit and talk the way other cultures do. We have no time for that and we're almost afraid to just get together over coffee and open up. We live isolated, suburbs away from one another. Our only "downtown" (in the European fashion of where people sit and have coffee and talk about everything), is Starbucks.

When we do talk, we discuss the weather, who's getting married, and nothing else because everything else ends up being politics and elections and who's a bad politician.

Lastly, some people have time for nothing. They work more than one job to try and make ends meet, and can barely get sleep.

[JoMama49]

54. Does this show get repeated on Sunday?

Anyone know?
Thx

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Yes at least on my local station

[Cleita]

59. Also, they archive their shows.

http://www.ringoffireradio.com/shows.asp

[Vyan]

55. They're Right

it is much worse than the media has depicted so far, however HBO's Ghosts of Abu Ghraib does a good job of filling in the technicolor blanks.

Vyan

[RestoreGore]

58. We killed the soul of this nation in Abu Ghraib

Nothing will get it back now.

[spooked]

66. You got that Right!

NEVER FORGET!

[yardwork]

62. k&r

The evidence has been there for a long time. Sy Hersh published articles in The New Yorker and detailed video evidence of children being tortured to get their parents to talk. Rolling Stone magazine published an article about a 15-year old boy in Gitmo being tortured. Photos have been posted on DU and numerous other sites of dead people in Abu Ghraib, covered with blood, with U.S. operatives standing over them grinning and giving the thumbs up. There are photos of dogs being set on prisoners. Reports of children being sodomized, covered with corrosive liquids.

Yes, the evidence is there. Congress saw it several years ago.

There is NO EXCUSE for the inaction.

[Stardust]

63. K&R

[Hulk]

64. Nothing happens until WE THE PEOPLE take to the streets...

Bitch and moan all we want. Nothing is going to happen or change in this country until the people rock the boat...BIG TIME. May as well get used to living in a corrupt and immoral country. The people are NOT going to step out of their SUV's, away from the flat screens, give up their coke snorting and BMW showboating to stand in the streets for a few hundred tortured and murdered Muslims. This country is in the sewer, and we are just unwilling to do a f*cking thing about it. It's what it is.

[Nikki Stone1]

65. Americans have become far too accustomed to evil masquerading as moral righteousness

Things like Abu Ghraib make me believe that there is a devil and that he is alive and well and running the White House. But fundie Christians have been brainwashed to believe that evil is two guys kissing, not the rape of children and teens in front of their parents. And it is brainwashed.

The question is how do we get the rest of this country to re-recognize evil and join forces against it?

[libodem]

67. I hear what you are saying

If Satan were alive and well, doing the doublespeak, it couldn't be any more clear, that he is at the White House. Have you seen 'Bush Is The Antichrist' web site? They have done a remarkable job making it look as serious and legitimate as possible. They compiled so much Fundamentalist propaganda and then this random stuff. It will Make you a believer! ;) I'm not good with links, sorry. Maybe someone else can?

[G_j]

69. war criminals, ruling us

now there is a reason to take pause and ask, :wtf:


and I am so sick after EVERYTHING, that I can barely find the energy to even desire to articulate on how much I despise the corporate media.
SHAME may be the only word available right now.