How do these house prices compare to where YOU live?

[Matsubara]

Since people who live in the states keep telling me how "expensive" Japan is...

I think people's preconceptions of the cost of living are based on the "bubble" period that ended about 16 years ago, and tend to reflect only Tokyo, which is considerably pricier than other cities.

I did a little research and found some examples of homes for sale in the area of Fukuoka (1.5 million, west Japan) where I live.


I have found that housing, both rentals and homes to buy, is much more affordable here now than it was in California.


Here are some listings in my area of town, which is very popular and fast-growing.



Low end:

580,000 Yen ($47,000)

462 sq. ft.

http://www.athome.co.jp/Haht_atweb/hsrun.exe/atweb2/athomeweb/StateId/RxfCcGNtEAH2M70gtN4y47w3Z0MxmZ4jFp/HAHTpage/HS_Sl_Detail?BUKKEN_NO=3224644901&gid=ki&category=sl&srcby=&ken=&kaikbn=al&hd_bk_jisya_tasya=1&KAI_NO=00080002515










Middle Range:

1,580,000 yen ($129,000)

Built in 1990

1017 Sq. Ft. 2 story, 3 br

http://www.athome.co.jp/Haht_atweb/hsrun.exe/atweb2/athomeweb/StateId/RxfCcGNtEAH2M70gtN4y47w3Z0MxmZ4jFp/HAHTpage/HS_Sl_Detail?BUKKEN_NO=9505007601&gid=ki&category=sl&srcby=&ken=&kaikbn=al&hd_bk_jisya_tasya=1&KAI_NO=00080002515









Somewhat upper-end (but not ritzy - nice view, though)

2,980,000 yen ($244,000)

3 Story 1728 Sq Ft. 3-5 bedrooms, depending on how you use the smaller rooms. Built 2001

http://www.athome.co.jp/Haht_atweb/hsrun.exe/atweb2/athomeweb/StateId/RxfDeGNtEaB2M7UWtN4T5yVoZIiAsZUTIp/HAHTpage/HS_Sl_Detail?BUKKEN_NO=3245779501&gid=ki&category=sl&srcby=&ken=&kaikbn=al&hd_bk_jisya_tasya=1&KAI_NO=00080002515










It seems to me that housing prices in the states are insane, and in many cities, it's impossible to find a studio for under $1000! Here there are TONS AND TONS of little places in the $200-$400 range. (They are even available in Tokyo for less than $500/month) Working people here can work, and still afford food, and maybe even a movie once in a while. America is a shithole unless you are rich anymore.

How do these housing prices compare to where you live?




















PS - here was the search results I ran on a local real estate site with the criteria being West Ward of town prices from 0 to 30 million yen ($246K)

If you feel like browsing them all, have at it (Japanese only)

http://www.athome.co.jp/Haht_atweb/hsrun.exe/atweb2/athomeweb/StateId/RxfCcGNtEAH2M70gtN4y47w3Z0MxmZ4jFp/HAHTpage/HS_BK_Cmdblanch

[gollygee]

1. Very slightly lower than here, and I live somewhere with a low cost of living

southwestern Michigan

[tridim]

2. Cheap compared with Denver

That's very surprising considering how nice those pads are. I would live in the last two in a heartbeat.

[Matsubara]

5. My first stint here was 1995-2000.

When we first arrived here. I thought it was expensive. Groceries seemed high, gas was high, rent was comparable to what we had paid in San Diego...

But when we went back in 2000, everything seemed to have gone up (except gas) a lot. And during the next five years it got worse and worse, until by the time we left the states early last year, gas was the same price per gallon as it is in Japan, groceries were through the roof, and housing is now much more expensive in many places. Factor in the MUCH lower costs for healthcare here, and we are coming our WAY ahead. I was adding debt every month when we lived in the states. At least here I'm breaking even, and I feel safe to let my kids play in the street.

I'm very sorry for all the working people struggling to make it in the US extortion economy. I wonder if there will be a government that gives a damn ever again?

[donco6]

10. I agree.

The last one would go for around $600K here, IMO.

[Matsubara]

12. There are "Million dollar houses" even in Fukuoka.

But they are usually one of the following:

Have a LOT of square footage and sit on a BIG piece of land

A large penthouse on an exclusive high-rise condo, probably overlooking Ohori Park

A good-sized and luxurious house or condo convenient to one of the main central stations in town

Or a combination of those things.



A typical price for a house comparable to a typical US house (okay, slightly less square footage) in good condition would be $200K to $250K, but much cheaper deals and fixer-uppers are easy to find.

[donco6]

24. That's not the impression people have here at all.

People think of Japan as a very expensive place to live. But I know there are penthouses here on Speer Blvd in Denver that go for well over $1M. Interesting to hear the real story.

[qdemn7]

3. So...

What kind of hoops (if any) does an American have to jump through to buy a home in Japan?

[Matsubara]

7. Not sure - still renting.

I suppose in my case I could become a citizen (easy when married to a national) and there would be no problem. Not sure if there are restrictions on foreign nationals buying. If it's a problem, we could do it in my wife's name.

I hope you're not getting ideas about "investing" or "flipping" here! I don't want you guys driving up the prices here too with your speculation!!

:p

[spinbaby]

4. Plus, you often don't need a car

In much of Japan, you don't need a car to get around because the trains are so good.

[Matsubara]

9. These houses are about a 20 min. walk to a train station

They would be considered "inconvenient" here by many people, who instead of buyin single-family detached homes, opt to buy units in high-rise condos withing quick walking distance to a station. People aren't quite as stuck on the notion that the only way to live is in a house with a yard. Besides, most yards here are pretty small anyway.

[symbolman]

6. That's WAY Cheaper than Hawaii

No wonder I'm not seeing all the Japanese folks I was so used to seeing in the early 80's..

Maybe I should move over there, hell, I was BORN there :)

I'll have to show this to my wife, thanks!

[k8conant]

8. Less than here - Jefferson County, West Virginia

Our housing prices have soared in the last 5 years. Outside builders like Dan Ryan have been building ticky-tacky houses on postage-stamp-sized lots and slapping huge price tags on them. A while back $100K was practically unheard of; now some people think $300K is cheap. Granted some of these $400K houses are big, but they're still slapped-together McMansions that may not outlive their mortgages.

[knitter4democracy]

11. It's about what it is here--but with less land.

Take all of those, put them on bigger lots, and it would be about right.

[madrchsod]

13. a lot cheaper than most urban areas in the usa

where i live in northern il a 1400sq ft house built in the 70`s is around 85-120,000.

[Matsubara]

15. That's a bargain.

A house that age and size in SF is $500K and up.

My hometown, El Paso is maybe a bit cheaper than where you are.

There are still brand new tract homes available for under $100k, even in fairly nice new areas.

But El Paso is unusually cheap...

[slackmaster]

14. That's roughly 1/4 of what comparable places go for in San Diego

:argh:

[LibDemAlways]

16. Comparable homes in Southern CA:

First house would sell for anywhere from $400K to $500K depending on neighborhood.

Second house would sell for around $650K.

Third house would easily sell for close to or over a million.

Homes in my neighborhood aren't even selling right now, and there are lots of "For Sale" signs up. Sellers are stubbornly refusing to lower the price while buyers are sweating them out. It's a strange market.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

17. there is a 500+ sq foot condo near Tokyo

for a mere $286,000US...but that one fashionable...one on the 5th floor of a 'highrise' 10 minutes to the station is a paltry $536,000 (only two and a half times my 2800sq single family home in the northern suburbs of ATL).

prices can be nuts anywhere...not all of the US is overpriced or 'out of control'

sP

[Matsubara]

18. Tokyo is like Manhattan.

Not reflective of the rest of the country.



True that not all of the US is nuts, but much of it is, even less desirable places like South Florida.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. i know...but the whole pricing issue in the US

is out of control in HOT CITIES. There are MANY places where the prices are not too bad (as you mention) but everyone talking about how they cannot afford a home, well, depends on where. We have a single income (wife is stay at home with the rugrats) and can still afford a nice home...just not in downtown ATL (where condos are regularly going for as much or MUCH more than our home). The speculators are driving up prices leading to crashes in small sectors of the country...of course, you can watch them crash and burn on some of the "flipping" shows that appear on A&E, TLC and the like.

sP

[annabanana]

19. You can't get the "low end" house for the "high end" money on Long Island.

Add about 60k & upwards, depending on exact location...

[warren pease]

20. Maybe half what they are here, just south of Portland, OR...

For comparable square footage. And that one with a water view is very, very nice indeed.

From your screen name, I assume you don't have the "gaijin" problem (which probably just shows my ignorance; "Matsubara" could just as easily mean "milkshake" as represent a name or nickname for all I know). But I would think it somewhat likely that, if not you personally, then maybe some westerners you know have to deal with it.

I'd be really curious about how that whole system works, if it's directed specifically at people from western Europe or North America, whether it's more a product of mono-culture and similar genetics than of racism, and whether the whole thing is getting better, worse or remaining relatively consistent.

Besides ostracism, what forms does it take? Is it physically dangerous? Do westerners actually get killed over there for being westerners, just like happens here occasionally when somebody with an accent and skin any color but pink isn't showing the proper level of patriotism?

I've heard it can get pretty overwhelming, just like the systemic American racism and xenophobia that are now being redirected at brown people -- not that the standard, 400+ years of racism, violence and murder of blacks by whites is on hiatus. It's just been overshadowed by the shiny new paint job, recaps and stereo system we stuck on the tired old model in an effort to make it easier to sell to a broader potential market.



wp

[Matsubara]

25. Most of Japan is on the "internationalization" bandwagon.

There are a few hateful people, but most are too cowardly to ever say anything directly.

Most people are very friendly and nice, to the point of treating foreigners a bit like celebrities (if you're white - if you're black they may be more apprehensive, and if you are Korean or Chinese, you will be ignored on the street but discriminated against in the workplace)

It's a complicated topic that would take a lot more than one post to address.

But fortunately, I don't work for a Japanese company, so I have my independence and don't have to kiss up to a Japanese boss. I have foreign friends here, and am friends with Japanese who are capable of seeing beyond the superficial.

But anyway, I don't think Japanese are any more racist than Americans, and they certainly are much more knowledgeable than Americans about the world outside their borders.

Overall, I like living here and people are nice. I mostly only get annoyed when people treat me like a tourist and automatically assume I can't speak the language, use chopsticks or find my way around.

I've heard that in Korea it's MUCH much harder to deal with.

[spinbaby]

38. The Japanese are very nice people

When we've traveled there, people have always gone out of their way to help the clueless gaijin. I'm a blonde white woman so all I had to do was to stand around looking lost and pretty soon an English speaker stopped to help me.

[dmallind]

21. Higher than Lincoln NE

Especially given inconvenient location and tiny rooms. The 1728sq ft would be about $140-160000 here and have 2+BR.

Yes I'm fully aware that other countries will live with smaller rooms, but you asked for price comparisons, not value judgements. A home of that size laid out like that would not sell for half the $245K it lists for. Of course we don't have many nice views here either!

[mondo joe]

23. $129k in Seattle would barely get you a garage.

[RedCappedBandit]

26. Extremely inexpensive compared to LI

[rox63]

27. Much less expensive than here in eastern MA

Although prices have been dropping a bit over the last couple of years.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. Are those rental rates, with an incorrect exchange rate?

Because the current dollar-yen rate is about 121. So 1,580,000 yen is about $13,000, not $129,000 (as you say at the end, 30 million yen is about $246K). That must surely either a cheap annual rental amount for a 3 bedroom house, or a very expensive monthly one, for a popular city.

Or is the Japanese unit (that I can't read) "10,000 yen"? The page quotes 1,580 'somethings'.

For what it's worth, the OECD's purchasing power parity index currently says the dollar is at about 0.85 of its true value, compared with the yen - so that a realistic exchange rate is more like 140 yen to the dollar. That would make the price more like $11,100, in comparison to what else a dollar buys.

Going to the British pound (and, luckily, the purchasing power of the yen and pound is reckoned to be exactly right at the moment), 1,580,000 yen is about £6,600. In a desirable part of a British city, a similar house might be £12,000 a year to rent, or £350,000 to buy, perhaps?

[Matsubara]

30. No, but I did leave a zero off the yen amounts - the dollar amounts are correct.

Sorry.


The "1580 Somethings" is "1580 Man" a man is a unit of 10K.

Sorry for the mistake. I think easily in "man", but not so well in full numbers as they get so big.

And yes, they are all sale prices.


Sounds like London is pretty pricey.

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. OK, so it's £66,000 to buy a 3 bed house, for me - that's very cheap

No 'popular and fast-growing' area of a 1.5 million population city in Britain would have a price like that (especially for what appears to be a brand new house) - I would say it would be 3 to 7 times that, depending on the area of the country (with London being the '7').

[rox63]

29. Article in today's Boston Globe about how expensive housing is in the Boston area

Even with the downturn in the real estate market, houses in the Boston area will continue to be unaffordable for many working families and first-time homebuyers, according to a new report from Harvard University's Joint Center for Housing Studies.

The median price of a single-family home in Greater Boston has dropped 3 percent in the current slowdown, to $402,200 in 2006. At that price, a house costs 5.4 times the median household income of $74,773 for the region. The standard for affordability is 3 to 3 1/2 times median household income, according to the Harvard center.

"It is becoming increasingly clear that the market will not return to a day where everyone who worked could afford a place to live," said Nicolas Retsinas, director of the center, which is releasing its annual report on the state of the nation's housing market today.

House prices would have to fall a dizzying 35 to 44 percent -- to the $224,000-to-$262,000 range -- before being affordable to a broad swath of the population, as they were in the mid-1990s in the aftermath of the previous housing-market correction.

~snip~

Read more here: http://www.boston.com/realestate/news/articles/2007/06/11/home_costs_stay_beyond_reach_of_many/

[Rosemary2205]

31. 792 sq ft bungalow recently valued at $79,543

But then I live on the "wrong" side of Atlanta.

[Progressive_In_NC]

32. These prices pretty much fall right in line with Raleigh, NC

I just bought a 2,200 sq ft house for 242K in a mixed race neighborhood on the not bad but not good side of town. The same house on the good side of town goes for $275K.

[karlrschneider]

33. Looks pretty similar to most large cities in the US that I've seen.

I regret I never got to visit Fukuoka City...but have been to Oita many times. Riding that big ground effect machine across the bay to the airport is so cool! :D
edit: would you care to say what your work is and/or how you happened to end up in Kyushu? None of my business, just curious. ;-)

[Matsubara]

34. I've never been to Oita City...

What is "that big ground effect machine"? Some sort of tram?

Here because I married into it. I'm a translator, but we came here for family reasons. I could translate from anywhere in this day and age.

[karlrschneider]

36. Oh, they call it a hovercraft. Here's an article on the newer one

it is larger than the ones they had last time I was there 5 years ago. :D
http://www.mes.co.jp/english/press/2002/20020329.html

[Matsubara]

40. Cool. What brought you to Oita?

It's kind of an out-of-the-way place.

An onsen trip?

[karlrschneider]

50. Business...our company was partnered with Ataka Trading Co and had clients

all over Japan. Except for Shikoku, I guess, I never was there. (Toric lens generating equipment). I don't work for them any more, they were bought out by another company and they sold my airplanes. Well, their airplanes...:-)
edit: stupidly wrote Kyushu instead of Shikoku

[karlrschneider]

37. Ah so. Campai!

:toast:

[begin_within]

39. Prices for the homes you pictured would be 4 times higher in San Diego

[sg_]

41. An average price of £244,293 ($~481,794)

in my area.

[Kerrytravelers]

42. That's a give away compared to Southern California prices.

[NewJeffCT]

43. I found one similar in size to your "upper-end, but not ritzy"

1,700 square feet - in my town and it was $350,000. But, it was built in 1953 vs 2001 for yours, which is a big difference.

This 1,700 does not include a basement, or the 2 car garage, though.

The town I live in is considered one of the more expensive in the Hartford, CT area, but it's far cheaper than areas of CT that are closer to NYC. We do have excellent public schools, though.

[Matsubara]

45. Most houses here only have a carport.

Fully enclosed garages and in-ground swimming pools are seen as extravagances for the very rich.

But then fairly normal people would have their whole house interior done in stunningly beautiful woods, so I guess their priorities are different here...

Hell, almost everyone I know here has one of those heated electric bidet $200 toilet seats...

[NewJeffCT]

48. where I live

I don't think you'd find detached many homes without at least a 1 car garage. Maybe some condos or apartments, but I'm not even sure about that. While buses are available in town, it is not the best of settings for any sort of public transportation, considering that most people have to leave town to work.

And, I think anything built after the late 90s will likely be at least 2,000 square feet and closer to $500,000 (and up)unless it is on a busy main road.

[Matsubara]

49. I'm sure with Connecticut winters a garage is a godsend.

Winter hi temps here are generally between 40 and 60, with few freezes (unless you go further north or into the higher elevations.

So at least cold starts and scraping ice off of windshields are not issues here.

Car theft is also extremely rare too, so that may be another reason homebuyers don't insist on garages - after all, a 1 car carport takes up as much space as a 1 car garage, anyway.

[NewJeffCT]

53. Where I live

I have no worries about car theft or anybody breaking into our house, luckily, and there are a ton of kids playing all over. I could probably leave our front door unlocked before going on a lengthy vacation and not have to worry while we're gone - not that we'd do that, but I can say that pretty safely.

The garage is almost a necessity unless you like scraping ice off your car a few dozen times each winter... and, if we lived in Southwestern CT, our home would easily cost twice what we paid for it if we wanted a town with equivalent schools, and a similar home.

[Matsubara]

44. *************************NOTE: ALL YEN AMOUNTS IN OP ARE MISSING A ZERO.****************************

Sorry for the mistake - my bad. The dollar amounts are all correct.

It was after the edit deadline when it was brought to my attention.

[AlCzervik]

46. l live in Norcal so these prices seem pretty good but my question--mortgages, how do they work there

can you get one or is it a cash price? In China many places are leased for 100 years and technically they don't own them.

[Matsubara]

47. To my knowledge, the mortgages work pretty much the same here as in the states.

I guess the Chinese example has to do with the fact that they're still technically "Communist" (?)

Don't know if they have the risky "subprime" type ones here or not, though...

[Dukkha]

51. Japan's prices are same but much better neighborhoods

They're low end equivalent doesn't come with drive-bys and gang wars.

[Elspeth]

52. Way cheaper than San Diego

That last one is a big house for 264K.

[ironflange]

54. Those are all killer bargains

Here in Calgary, the average resale value is nearly $500,000, and is actually more than that if you use the real estate board's new method og calculating the value. Not that I'm complaining, the house we got for under $200K six years ago has much more than doubled in value since then. It's nuts.