HEADLINE: 'Truth' group targets Giuliani on 9/11 role

[Bluebear]

On a recent night this spring, Rosaleen Tallon stood outside a Bay Ridge catering hall waiting for Rudy Giuliani to arrive for a cocktail party that raised money for his presidential campaign. Tallon, a Yonkers resident whose firefighter brother was killed on Sept. 11, 2001, was not there to cheer the former New York City mayor. Instead she was among a group of protesters looking to dispel what they say is the myth of Giuliani's much-praised response to the attacks on the World Trade Center.

"I think if they knew the truth, (people) wouldn't vote for him," said Tallon, who is a leader of a group calling itself Sept. 11th Firefighters and Families for Truth. "We haven't had a chance to go national, but we will. You can bet on that." The truth, according to Tallon and others involved in the protest, is that Giuliani's actions as mayor, especially his failure to address long-standing problems with radio communications, made matters worse on Sept. 11 and cost lives.

"We need to tell the truth about the failures of the Giuliani administration before, during and after 9/11," said fellow protester Sally Regenhard of the Bronx, whose son Christian died on Sept. 11. Whether Tallon and her fellow protesters can influence the presidential election is uncertain, but their efforts could prove troublesome for a Giuliani campaign that draws heavily on his response to the terrorist attacks.

"His constituency, his platform, his base, is 9/11," said Maurice Carroll, director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. "That's what made him, got him the 'America's mayor' title."

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070610/NEWS05/706100341

[yardwork]

1. Is that his wife?

[Bluebear]

2. Yes, the Third Wife who would be First Lady. nt

[Jack from Charlotte]

4. Not so fast, there. Plenty of time for Rudy to dump this one and........

have another wife come Jan., '09.

[Bluebear]

5. Well, of course you're right.

I jumped the gun :)

[laylah]

15. OMG

she looks like Cruella Harris! Well, maybe not as harsh but close to it.

[Ezlivin]

3. And he was either warned about the towers collapsing or he wasn't

Which one is it, Rudy? You said in an interview with Peter Jennings that you abandoned WTC 7 because you had been warned of the imminent collapse of WTC 1 and 2; a LOT of people would have loved to have gotten the same warning, but you and others didn't see fit to pass along this information.

Now you say that you never got a warning, even though you are on record as having said the exact opposite.

We've got 47 good reasons to really investigate all of the events of 9/11.

[slowry]

7. Actually

He said they got the warning and didn't have time to pick up their shit and walk out the door, before it happened, if you actually listen to the interview. Also, clearly someone was on the job of informing people of the imminent collapse -- ie. whoever warned the Ghoul and his "team".

Yay, I'm defending the schmuck who's responsible for who knows how many deaths now? But this idea that he and his "team" got word and just sat there chuckling, when they supposedly could be warning anyone, any better than the people in charge of rescue, strikes me as retarded.

[Ezlivin]

8. Okay, so SOMEONE warned him

Or they didn't. Rudy has contradicted himself.

Why would he change his story? Let's put aside for a moment about warning others and just focus on why Rudy would find it necessary to now deny that he was not warned.

And who warned him?

He told Peter Jennings: "I--I went down to the scene and we set up headquarters at 75 Barkley Street, which was right there with the police commissioner, the fire commissioner, the head of emergency management, and we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was going to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building, so we were trapped in the building for 10, 15 minutes, and finally found an exit and got out, walked north, and took a lot of people with us."

But now he says: "I didn't know that the towers were going to collapse."

Both of these statements are on video, so the veracity of each can be checked.

So the question remains: Why does Rudy feel it necessary to now change his story about being forewarned of a collapse?

Many of the 9/11 victims families are enraged that Guiliani didn't see fit to contact others about the imminent collapse. Bad radios or bad decision? You be the judge.

[jberryhill]

11. Context matters

If you ask me:

"Did you know you were going to have three cups of coffee today?" I would say, "No, I did not know I was going to have three cups of coffee today." As in, when I got up this morning, I didn't have the faintest idea that I was going to have three cups of coffee.

Now, yes, I had three cups of coffee today. By the time I was pouring my third cup, I was pretty sure I was going to have three cups of coffee today.

So, my answer to the first question makes me a liar using your logic, right?

EMT Richard Zarrillo

... We were really trying to establish OEM and a treatment sector in the lobby of the building because there were people coming around us.

Again, times are a little fuzzy initially for me. A few minutes later, John came to me and said you need to go find Chief Ganci and relay the following message: that the buildings have been compromised, we need to evacuate, they're going to collapse. I said okay. I went down Vesey Street towards West.

Q. You were by yourself?

A. I was by myself, me and my helmet and my radio. I got to the corner of Vesey and West. I found some EMS vehicles. I think I saw Chief Gombo there. I'm not really sure. I mentioned to the EMS people there, again, not knowing who they were, I said you need to get away from here, the building might collapse, we need to leave this spot.

As I was walking towards the Fire command post, I found Steve Mosiello. I said, Steve, where's the boss? I have to give him a message. He said, well, what's the message? I said the buildings are going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out. With a very confused look he said who told you that? I said I was just with John at OEM. OEM says the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get out.

He escorted me over to Chief Ganci. He said, hey, Pete, we got a message that the buildings are going to collapse. His reply was who the fuck told you that? Then Steve brought me in and with Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan, Steve, I believe Chief Turi was initially there, I said, listen, I was just at OEM. The message I was given was that the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get our people out. At that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down and that's when the building came down, the first tower came down.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110161.PDF

[Ezlivin]

Lies matter

Either Rudy was warned the towers were going to collapse, or he wasn't.

He wasn't asked if when he got up that morning the towers were going to fall. He wasn't asked if he had any personal foreknowledge. He VOLUNTEERED the information that he was told the towers were going to collapse, then later he retracted that statement.

My logic is this: If you tell me that you had three cups of coffee and then tell me that you didn't, you are a liar.

[jberryhill]

25. Yeah, he volunteered it in response to...

...the screaming meemies that have been shouting "inside job" stuff at him just about anywhere he goes. You should post links to all of the Giuliani confrontation videos where this group bravely shouts over whatever he was trying to say to some kids in a scout troop.

The bolded portion of the OP is what should be hammered on. After the 1993 attack, Giuliani failed to implement the needed communication improvements, and his performance on 9/11 was a shambles. Ditto Bush. This tragedy happened on their watch, and was compounded by their utter carelessness and obsession with imaginary agendas leading up to the event. By confusing the issue with crackpot theories, the truthers are doing a great job of associating general nuttiness with criticisms of the real failures, stellar mismanagement, distractions, lies and excuses of these idiots.

[Ezlivin]

27. It doesn't matter who asked the question; the lie still matters

I don't care if Mothers for Hitler asked him the question. Rudy may have mismanaged a lot of things; I don't know, I'm not a New Yorker and didn't have to live with his leadership.

But I do know that he's given conflicting answers to a simple question: Were you warned of the towers' impending collapse? A very straightforward question and one that would not cause most people any trouble. Either Rudy did or Rudy didn't.

I don't think he "volunteered" his answer in the latter case, but only in the former case. After all, Peter Jennings did not bluntly ask him "Did you receive a warning that the towers were going to collapse" and yet Rudy responded that he had received a warning. In the latter case someone did ask a blunt question, one that Rudy could have easily deferred by saying he stood by his previous statement. Instead he chose to negate his previous answer. He didn't volunteer anything.

Regardless, I think we are both in agreement that Rudy is definitely not the person we would like see elected President. I'll gladly set aside any minor dispute we may have over this point and work with you (and others) to ensure that this man does not make it to the White House. There's already sufficient and compelling evidence that he cannot be trusted with a leadership position.

[bobbolink]

9. "Retarded"?

There are developmentally challenged people who would do a hell of a lot better than Rudy did!

Could you please not smear a group of fine people?

Please?

It's so unnecessary, and certainly not very kind.

They are humans, too, ya know....

[Bluebear]

17. See downthread.

It must be the "word of the day" :(

[bobbolink]

28. Thanks... that made my day, as they say.

I used to teach "special ed", so I know that some of the kids being so rudely maligned here are among the sweetest, most loving people I've ever had the pleasure to know. Certainly people I'd much rather be around than these bigots.

I think we all, in our misspent youth, used terms that were crude and rude. However, when called on it, we changed our tune, and had the grace to be embarrassed about our ignorant behavior.

[slowry]

20. When I say retarded

I mean REALLY STUPID, and nothing at all about anyone who is challenged!

[SidDithers]

21. Oh, well, that makes it OK then...nt

Sid

[slowry]

23. Worked for Humpty Dumpty, and he was no retard. n/t

[Parche]

6. Jerkliani

That is why I want him as the Repube nomination.

We can get him on his little 'dragqueen' photo
But we can really get him on what he didnt do before 9/11 or after.

[bobbolink]

10. Go, Families For Truth!

:applause: :patriot: :applause:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

12. Headline should read: Retards Stalk Asshole. n/t

[Bluebear]

13. "Headline should read: Retards Stalk Asshole. n/t" Who are the "retards"?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

18. Who are the retards?

[Bluebear]

19. Evidently, "Firefighters and Families for Truth"

That's the only way I can read that.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

14. Cool! This is my local paper! :) Recommended! eom

[bettyellen]

16. everyone should know our city REFUSED TO ALLOW THE DONATION OR USE OF SERIOUS MASKS...

because they were afraid people would be frightened off. those who worked on that pile knows every major company in the USA was offering gifts of whatever was needed during the cleanup. people asked where are the serious masks? but the powers that be did not want the concern over air quality that might come along with actually protecting the firemen, police officers that breathe that stuff in for more than four months. they allowed those heroes to be guinea pigs.

[johnaries]

22. Nice Tits!

Oh, sorry, this was about Rudy. And I just took a look at her face. She would be very pretty if she shut her mouth.
Was that sexist? Sorry, I was trying to look at this pic as a Republican would.....

[SidDithers]

24. This is the kind of "truth" that the 9/11 Truth Movement...

should be pursuing. There were enough screw-ups leading up to 9/11 to fuel 10 investigations of those events. That's where the real issues are.

Sid

[tomp]

26. my prediction: hillary will defend him. nt