To Those Of You Who Wasted Another Day Waiting & Hoping...

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

How does it feel to be Charlie Brown?

Maybe tomorrow you'll kick that football.

I've learned what a complete waste of time it is to spend my hours here watching, and praying for some semblence of a victory.

I suppose if you still think we're living in a democracy, there is reason for hope. Reality suggests otherwise.

Democracy? I've got a bridge to sell ya!

[On the Road]

1. Lieberman's Vote

shows that the Dems no longer hold a majority if they ever really did. It's tied. The Dems have the commitee chairs as long as Joe doesn't formally make the jump.

[A wise Man]

12. I've just made a post titled

Question to Dem'cong and senate. This reflects your post.

[11 Bravo]

16. I believe the Senate passed rules which will maintain Dem control of committee chairs ...

even if Holy Joe jumps ship. I say don't wait for him to jump, push the sanctimonious prick overboard.

[On the Road]

23. How Would That Happen?

If Joe votes with the Republicans, it's a tie and Cheney breaks the tie.

The odd thing now is that it's kind of a tie only the Dem hold the committees.

[Selatius]

50. Dick Cheney, as president of the senate, can rule the changes illegal.

He only needs one senator to speak up and contest the rule changes, and it will be undone.

You WILL lose all your chairs if you push him overboard.

[quiet.american]

47. If Dems hadn't tip-toed around supporting Ned Lamont, Lieberman would have been finished.

It's all a bunch of crap.

[mzmolly]

48. Dems did support Lamont.

:shrug: Lamont toned down his "rhetoric" and Republicans voted for Lieberman, that's why the shit head won.

[kath]

52. NO - lots of Dems, including some very prominent ones, supported Lieberman.

[mzmolly]

76. Who?

As I recall, Hilary, Kerry, Obama and others supported Lamont.

[quiet.american]

58. Check this out for info on why I said what I said. It's a very good summary.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/2917/

Excerpt from David Sirota, who worked on the Lamont campaign:

What Really Happened

....The story of the national Democratic Party’s abandonment of Lamont will likely be written more fully in the coming weeks, with explanations of both how this happened and even more importantly, why. But the broad strokes are obvious: Almost every major figure in national Democratic politics save John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Wes Clark and John Edwards refused to seriously help the Lamont campaign. We saw this coming when, right after Lieberman lost the primary, he was welcomed with a standing ovation back to the Senate club by his Democratic colleagues.

Subsequently, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid indicated that Lieberman’s seniority would be preserved if he won reelection, despite the fact that he officially abandoned the party. To understand how much this abandonment affected the race, consider that Lieberman bragged in October to the Associated Press that he was actively using Reid’s promise of seniority to promote his key “experience and seniority” argument—and that such an argument was helping him win over voters. On Election Day, Lieberman appeared on Fox News to thank the national Democratic Party for refusing to help Lamont, the Democratic nominee.

[kath]

64. Thanks so much for that article - the LOSER of the Democratic primary was "welcomed with a standing

ovation back to the Senate club by his Democratic colleagues" and then to make it even worse, he was promised that his seniority would be preserved, "DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE HAD OFFICIALLY ABANDONED THE PARTY".


This repudiation of the will of the Democratic voters of CT is utterly despicable.

[Tesha]

75. I guess losers love losers; Lieberman probably helps "the curve". (NT)

[mzmolly]

77. I don't look to Sirota for accuracy, sorry.

:shrug: Though, I do respect your right to a different "take" than I have.

[quiet.american]

81. Okay. I'm not even going to ask why -- I'm sure you have your reasons.

:shrug: No biggie.

[H2O Man]

61. Right.

Some conservative democrats supported Lieberman, along with the republicans. But most democrats supported Lamont. Thus, while Lamont won a fairly close primary race, he did not do as well in the general election.

[quiet.american]

65. Hi H20 -- I'm interested to know what you make of Sirota's perspective --

-- referenced in my post above.

[H2O Man]

72. I agree with it.

I'm glad you posted it -- it's very important.

[quiet.american]

73. 'Preciate your reply -- cheers. n/t

[H2O Man]

74. I appreciate the

article that shows the disconnect between what the grass roots stands for, and what far too many "leaders" actually do (or fail to do).

[hang a left]

66. Ummm???

Were you at the same election I was???

I believe the beltway bent over backwards to support Shmoe. It scared the shit out of them. Not to mention the infusion of $$$.

[mzmolly]

78. It was a touchy situation, Dems supported Lamont but if they went ot far

and Joe won, which he did, then what? I dunno, I think they came out in support of Lamont and that's all they "could" do.

[librechik]

2. maybe I should join the Greens

I hear they're really making things happen!

in Germany...

[Wetzelbill]

6. I have thought about that myself...

Too lazy to officially switch parties though.

[Wetzelbill]

3. I understand your feelings but Paris WILL get out of jail

I just know it!!!!

[partylessinOhio]

4. I watched but I don't hold out any hope for me and my country anymore.

We are screwed. The culture of hate has been winning for years now. I don't recognize my country anymore and it is very, very sad.

[Wetzelbill]

11. It's what happens when silly people are in positions of power

In our country the cream doesn't rise to the top, the shit does, and it just so happens that they're owned by hatemongers and snake oil salesmen. It's ridiculous.

[MonkeyFunk]

5. I didn't waste any time on it....

I had no expectation whatsoever it would get 60 votes. I'm surprised that anyone did believe that.

But still, it's a pretty good showing against Gonzales. We got a few Republicans to join in, and the rest are now on record as supporting Gonzales.

Not a bad day, overall.

[hang a left]

67. That is the way I see it too. nt

[BlooInBloo]

7. Wow - you sure showed us.

[Occulus]

55. Now, now, be nice.

He has a valid point. We're in the majority... I truly expected stronger language and harsher terms than what I've seen up to now (excepting the Waxman committee, which is truly a joy and a pleasure to behold; I look forward to watching those hearings the way I look forward to the return of Galactica in 2008).

[blues90]

8. I don't feel democracy in the air -

I smell a dictatorship and see enough evidence of corporatism everywhere .

[RufusTFirefly]

15. Don't forget to say the Pledge!

Perhaps we could call it the Lemon Pledge. I smell another sponsorship opportunity.

[Elspeth]

39. Wow, that's an awesome and disturbing flag picture.

So true though. It is scary how much corporations are running us.

[blondeatlast]

9. Except for Lieberman, the Dems all voted "aye" and six Republicans

Yeah, take your ball and go home--you remind me of Lucy, actually.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

20. That's the best you can do? A personal attack? Whatever.

See you around on the next single-payer thread.

Or, maybe not.

[bobbolink]

22. What a threat... you'll get me good over single payer...

watch your nose....

just so you know... I won't be seeing any more of the blondes....

[blondeatlast]

27. Whatever. We're on the same side regarding single payer,

but if I DARe to disagree with you on anything else, it's always personal.

Who needs it?

[laylah]

40. Are you always this

hateful? blondeatlast made a good point. why are you attacking her? gawwwwwwwwwdess this room needs a very good saging and removal of all the bad juju...jmvho.

[WillyT]

42. Kinda Sounds Like He's A Stalker, No ???

Or at least a misogynist.

:shrug:

[blondeatlast]

46. She isn't by any means, but she is passionate. No biggie. nt

[Telly Savalas]

18. Lieberman isn't a Democrat.

[blondeatlast]

21. Woops--my bad. nt

[mudesi]

10. I'm giving them ONE MORE CHANCE

In September, when the surge fails, with 500+ more troops wasted, I expect the Democrats to stand up and not back down. I expect veto after veto after veto of war ending bills. I expect impeachment to be put on the table. I expect no more whining about not having votes or pandering to the Republican base.

One more chance. One.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theHandpuppet]

24. Well I've been here a LONG TIME

And I feel the same way as the OP.

Tell me what this Congress has done to make the OP feel any differently. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. This is not faith-based politics as usual.

[brentspeak]

28. What are you talking about?

The, er, "DUer" I responded to was just now making the bogus claim that somehow, in some way, the Democrats on this vote failed to "stand up and not back down.". Um...duh??? All of the Democrats voted 'aye' on this resolution! He's "going to give them one more chance"...for what?

The, er, "DUer" I responded to has been making posts like the above one ever since March 2007 -- the very month he (she?) joined DU.

So, what is it exactly that you "feel the same way as the OP" about?

[mudesi]

34. I should clarify

My response is in general terms regarding the Democrats' recent capitulation over the Iraq war, and the OP's feeling of throwing in the towel. The Democrats still have the power to truly fight in September when the surge fails.

[mudesi]

31. You might want to do a search...

I've bashed plenty of others, too.

Sorry, but the disappointment felt by many here regarding the Democrats is valid. They didn't have to capitulate the way they did regarding Iraq. Even Skinner was disappointed, and he's the admin.

But your perception might have something to do with me being a Canadian born citizen to American parents. I don't have an especially strong loyalty to the Democratic party. In fact, they are considered quite conservative here. Our Conservative party is pretty much right in the same band of the political spectrum as the Democrats.

That being said, the vast, vast, majority of Canadians, including people who would call themselves "Conservatives", are rooting for the Democrats. American policy affects us in a very real way, especially economically. I sincerely hope that the Democrats grow a spine by September. But like I said, if they don't, I can't help but feel the same way as the OP. My extended family, who have voted Republican on occasion, feel almost the same way.

[LSK]

25. one more chance to magically grow 9 more Senators?????

:wtf:

[dogday]

29. LOL

:rofl: that sentence about sums it up...

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. I hope for those things.

but I don't expect them.

[mnhtnbb]

70. And then what?

[roody]

80. Good luck with that. They have had many many

one more chances from me. I am now a Green with no intention of changing.

[bobbolink]

14. I keep thinking of Senator Johnson, and how badly needed he is.

I really wonder why there aren't rules that would permit him to vote in absentia.

Anyone know?

[BlooInBloo]

19. Silver Lining: maybe this'll get Paris off the news & off DU.

[LSK]

26. DAMN THOSE DEMS FOR NOT HAVING 60 VOTES!!!!

:sarcasm:

[BootinUp]

38. "You maniacs! You blew it all up!

Damn you! Damn you all to hell!" -Taylor.

[hang a left]

68. lol

really.

OP is a tard.

[EFerrari]

71. And even if they didn't, most of the Senate is now on record

condemning Torquemada. That was well done.

[deutsey]

30. Our feudal overlords control most of the media, our branches of gov't, etc.

Did anyone really expect this vote to succeed?

[movonne]

33. I think a great bit of the dem senators and congressmen are repug

light and some not so light...I think we are screwed no matter what they do...they are looking like a bunch of jackasses and looking weaker and weaker..they are turning this country back to the neo-cons...I blame a lot on the DLC which feel just like lieberman..A good possibility if certain ones of our candidates gets the presidency we will continue doing just what we are doing now..(except they will through a few crumbs like so kind of health care and maybe if we are lucky will get a few more of our rights back..that is the best I hope for.

[hang a left]

69. Well,

all those DLCers voted "no confidence".

Go figure.

Now I am not defending DLCers by any means. We are on different sides of the street.

The dems were united on this save leiberbutt. We brought it to the floor and the dems were unanimous. We are on the record as wanting Abu out. The Republican senators are on the record as supporting Gonzo. Come election time it will look real good in the political ads. By then that fire will be blazing.

[wiggs]

35. Why, again, were Meiers and Rove not given approved subpoenas so that

we could have heard more about the real story before this kind of vote? Does the vote to continue debate mean that we can issue those and more subpoenas now? Can congress, blocked from an expression of no confidence, vote with a simple majority to recommend an independent prosecutor? Was the vote of no confidence some sort of compromise solution that the GOP couldn't get behind, now the fit will really hit the shan?

If illegal activities (Hatch Act?) have occured, why not recommend prosecution? Why not pursue contempt of congress charges?

Go ahead and let GOP block every resolution. But keep bringing them. Keep appearing in prime time to discuss what has happened to the justice department. Every day. It has to be clear that this is so egregious that to not pursue accountability is tantamount to aiding fascist abuse of power in the justice department.

This issue (not the weak no confidence vote) is worth going to the mat for.

[Wednesdays]

36. I agree, give 'em enough rope to hang themselves

Today, 38 senators took the bait.

[durtee librul]

37. Oh hell, issue a subpoena

and have them tell you they ain't coming. THEN see what happens......nuttin'

So much for the laws of the land. Again, Bush and his band of crooks are vindicated by our 'congress.'

This is so obvious to me. Next time I feel like speeding, I am going to. Then when I get pulled over, I will just have to explain to the cop I am just following dear leader's example of not following the laws of the land. (yea I know, stupid, but I am just sick at what is going on here.) We have laws and Bush and his buds just break whatever one happens to suit their fancy whatever day.

[Morgana LaFey]

41. It's called "going back again and again for what you never got

the first time." Many adult children of dysfunctional parents spend a lifetime trying to get the love or approval or whatever else they wanted/needed from their parents. This can happen in intimate relationships too, thinking the mate can change, WILL change: "just as soon as... (fill in the blank) happens, we'll be happy, or he'll be nicer to me, or he'll show me how much he really does love me, or he'll stop beating me for once and for all."

It's also called codependence. Many, many Democrats have a codependent relationship with our Democratic leaders, and every time you find someone whining about Dems here at DU daring to criticize our leaders as if that will HARM them, or embarrass us, or aid the Republicans, you've stumbled on yet another one (another codependent). The pity is that these people are NOT strong people (I guess that's self-evident), and they do NOT help strengthen us a a party. What they mostly want is to control how others behave so that they won't be made uncomfortable.

What our very own codependents are going back for again and again is solid performance by our Dem leaders, a level of competence that "saves us" and the country from the evil boogeyman (Bush).

Not a pretty picture, is it?

[Raksha]

43. Co-dependence...good point. Your average concern troll

is a codependent, when they are not a plain old troll.

It's also called codependence. Many, many Democrats have a codependent relationship with our Democratic leaders, and every time you find someone whining about Dems here at DU daring to criticize our leaders as if that will HARM them, or embarrass us, or aid the Republicans, you've stumbled on yet another one (another codependent).

Okay, enough of this crap! I won't blame the Senate Dems (except for the ones who were absent) because they didn't have enough votes for closure, but now it goes to the House. And the House has ONE option and only one as far as I'm concerned: Draft articles of impeachment against Gonzales, preferably this week. No stonewalling, no excuses, no whining that they don't have the votes. If our representatives won't represent us, we can find some who WILL. And they need to know that in no uncertain terms.

[upi402]

44. Cloture or not, FORCE a vote -and then let us voters sort them out!

:grouphug:
Republicans will regret that voting record one day!

[leftofthedial]

45. politics has always been a scam

they've just upped the ante to unsustainable heights

it is far past time for barricades, guillotines and a prolonged and orgiastic bloodletting

[Selatius]

51. Man, I seriously hope change can come without the guillotines.

When you go to war against your own government, you take everybody with you that you don't want on a battlefield. My parents grew up in Viêtnam, so they saw the personal nature of war up close and personal. I don't want to see what they saw.

[midnight]

49. Not so good. What in the world is going on in this country?

[Decruiter]

53. Yep, it hurts, real bad. Take care, it can throw you into a real tail spin.

Everyone says stay hopeful. Okay. Good luck with that. I don't have a bridge but how about some great lakefront in West Texas?

[Occulus]

54. You'll notice, in that strip,

Charlie Brown (to my knowledge, please, someone, correct me if I'm wrong) never kicked that ball.

Not. Once. To my recollection, anyway. I could be wrong, but I don't recall it, and it would have been a pretty big deal if he had, as it was such a long-running joke...

What I would like to have seen would have been for him to run up and stop at the last minute, faking Lucy out into yanking the ball, and then tackle her hard for being the one holding it.

I'm sure this analogy dovetails into several of the many administration scandals that are slowly bubbling and simmering these days, but I'm too sleepy to connect those dots at the moment.

Charlie Brown's football inadequacies aside, I'm so jaded at this point the news of this vote just sort of made me cough slightly. The wonderful Democratic majority we were all hoping for seems to have become as useful as parakeet diapers*.

*The term "as useful as parakeet diapers" belongs to another DUer, not me; the thread was about a terribly designed kitchen, IIRC. Sorry- don't have the link, but that's what the OP was about.

[hang a left]

56. You know OCD

You get on my freakin nerves.

I remember when you first started posting here. I paid attention to you because I am from San Clemente, and both my boys are born and bred there.

I have watched you for a while.

You always are trying to start a fight.

I just want you to know that I notice.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

57. I hear you OCD

[Mojorabbit]

59. I had an impression

that hardball politics could be played in these instances. That arms could be twisted. That deals of support for this and that other legislation were done in backrooms to get votes needed. It seemed that the republicans worked that way. Why aren't we doing the same thing here? And yes, I am disappointed again. This one was a no brainer, he lied under oath and they all know it. Some hard hitting political manuvering should have been able to gete the votes. Call me naive and you would be right.

[SeanQ]

60. Too close to the truth to be funny K&R

[Vinca]

62. Has anyone else noticed that Al Franken appears to have put

the fear of god into Norm Coleman? The worm is siding with Dems on all kinds of things. Too late, Normie.

[conspirator]

63. My tactic now is just sit and wait til it gets so nasty that even freepers will rebel nt

[zonmoy]

79. I completely agree with you

I am just waiting until the time comes for all of us to be dragged off to the concentration camps.

[Xenotime]

82. Democracy is dead in America...

That all started back in 2000. It's impossible to tell who to trust anymore.