So why aren't all these illegals being rounded up & removed?

[Philosoraptor]

Not cost effective to go house to house kicking in doors and demanding to see documents at 3 a.m. and putting them all in holding camps to be processed and sent home on trains?

[fasttense]

1. Then who would Tyson and contractors use for slave labor? n/t

[Bobbieo]

2. Who would Harvest the crops?

[Philosoraptor]

3. That's right, we don't pick lettuce ourselves, we just eat the salads.

[Occulus]

41. I'll be planting leaf lettuce in a trough on my deck in a couple days

Yeah, yeah, late, I know. But I want some lettuce I grew for a change...

[Philosoraptor]

6. Indeed, who would cook our food at all the restaurants?

We'd practically starve to death without the Mexicans!

[Donnachaidh]

4. The construction industry isn't finished with them yet

They want to squeeze every last ounce of work out of them before they hand them over to the Border Patrol. :sarcasm:

Now if we were being honest about this problem and going after the employers? THAT would trigger a new wave of *upright citizens* turning in illegals for a break on the fines and jail time they'd be getting for employing them. :sarcasm:

[noamnety]

5. why aren't all these DUers

using language that isn't considered bigoted by the people they are discussing?

[bryant69]

7. I would think there would be some solution in between Gestapo like tactics

and doing nothing.

How about rounding up those who employ illegals and fining the hell out of them?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Philosoraptor]

8. Here you come along trying to make sense of it.

Why do you always do that? Just kidding, the simplest solution is the most unpopular one apparently. Arrest employers? Why this nation would collapse within a week.

[madokie]

12. I'd be jumping with joy

actually
enforce the laws on the books and lets get on with our lives, we'll be fine with our fellow americans doing our jobs that nobody wants to do as bushco* calls them, ;-)

[donco6]

11. As soon as we can tell illegal from legal . . .

that might be an option.

[bryant69]

13. Why can't we tell illegal from legal right now?

Bryant

[RebelOne]

14. Illegals would have no documents to prove they are here legally.

[donco6]

16. Do YOU have documents to prove you're here legally?

What are they?

[KansDem]

39. Don't need documents: I'm a middle-aged white guy...

And if required I can speak republicanism as good as the next GOPer. I can even spout some Bible verses from my "religious days" of youth.

The INS would simply tip their hats to me as they go after the "bad guys."

...do I really need the sarcasm smilie here?

[donco6]

40. Ha! You and me both.

I'm sure this middle aged white guy raised in Kansas could pass for a while at least. As long as I can keep my wrist straight . . .

[donco6]

15. What do you use to determine legal from illegal?

What identification item determines it? I can't think of one that can't be easily faked. And if you're going to "fine the hell" out of people, you're going to have to have some rather foolproof method for determining it - otherwise they'll weasel out of any fine quite easily.

[bryant69]

17. Ah - it's like counterfieting, I suppose

We tried to stomp that out but it was just too hard. Now we just have to live with a certain amount of fake money all the time.

Bryant

[donco6]

20. Or we jump in the Orwellian swamp . . .

. . . and submit to subcutaneous RFID tags or DNA matches or archived retinal scans or some other such "keep them in their place and know where they are at all times" schema. And I'm not talking for illegals - I'm talking for CITIZENS.

[bryant69]

23. Ah - did I propose that?

Your right that does sound pretty bad. I thought I proposed using existing methods to find out which American corporations and businesses are exploiting immigrant labor and fining them.

Are you in favor of a large underclass of illegal immigrants being exploited by American businesses?

Bryant

[pampango]

30. No, you didn't, but it does point out the difficulty of prosecuting

American companies, if they rely on documents that may, or may not, be forgeries, when they make a determination as to an job applicant's legality. Without foolproof national ID's, each company is left to act as an immigration agent and make judgments about the legitimacy of documents.

To prosecute them you would not only have to prove that the documents were forgeries (and the worker is illegal), but also that the employer knew, or should have known, this. I am no lawyer, but this seems to be a higher threshold than just saying that the I know that the companies know that they are hiring illegal immigrants.

Of course, the option to a mass deportation of illegal Hispanic immigrants is the mass "legalization" of those who are here. That would eliminate a large class of illegal immigrants, by making them legal.

[donco6]

31. Not per se,

But it's a short jump.

Falsely claiming citizenship has been a problem since the concept originated. Proving someone *isn't* a citizen quickly falls into the rhetorical "proving a negative" problem. To avoid this, some countries have gone the other way and implemented national ID mechanisms for citizens - and to prove your citizenship, you must have the documentation. In this day of RFIDS and DNA identification, it would be just a short jump to implement such a scheme here.

As to your second issue, "Are you in favor of a large underclass of illegal immigrants being exploited . . . " I think I'll leave it to them to answer, since they're most directly affected. Oh wait . . . I think they already have answered . . .

[Ganja Ninja]

9. "We have to secure the border."

This is the biggest most ridiculous lie of the whole thing.

Here's the truth.

You aren't going to secure the border without spending an amount of money equal to or surpassing the amount we're spending in Iraq.

Republican's know it would be futile to try and secure the border but hold it out to their moronic base because it sounds good and isn't do-able in the short, medium or long term.

The real secret to stopping the flow of illegals into this country is to stop giving them jobs. Republican's don't want to talk about this because it would work. They love cheap labor and won't penalize the people that contribute to their campaigns.

[Saturday]

18. Securing our borders isn't doable in the short, medium or long term??

Of course it is. We went to the moon but we can't secure our borders? Ridiculous.

[Ganja Ninja]

19. Good luck with that. It ain't gonna happen.

[Saturday]

21. I didn't say it was going to happen, I just said it was possible. n/t

[soothsayer]

25. We went to the moon?

[BlackVelvet04]

37. And how would you suggest that be done? n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

26. yep. nt

[madrchsod]

10. follow the money

no one can afford not to have them here...

[MindPilot]

22. If you have any questions about migrant workers...

Watch the film "A Day Without A Mexican".

http://www.adaywithoutamexican.com/

[Rosa Luxemburg]

24. one has to be realistic with limited govt. resources

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Why not make them full, voting, citizens and remove the "illegality".

The could vote, join unions, demand better wages, sue exploitive bosses, and participate in our democracy. And, in my opinion, add a much needed voice for the poor and oppressed.

[Philosoraptor]

28. I think along similar lines.

And I think it makes the most sense, even economically. You could almost call it a compassionate solution.

[Wcross]

29. What about all the people attempting to do it legally?

Should we allow those here illegally to jump ahead of them in line? Isn't it unfair to other people around the world who can not physically walk here from their location? Have you ever tried to walk from Africa to the United States? How about from Sri Lanka?

[pampango]

32. The "legalization" would not just apply to Hispanics.

My wife is Filipino and, while she is here legally obviously, I know of two other Filipinos are here illegally and would benefit from a legalization. There are many, many more. (There is a special term in Tagalog for those who are here illegally.)

While the majority of those who would benefit from legalization are, undoubtedly, Hispanic, not all are, including many who did not walk here. Deporting current illegal immigrants would not increase the chances of someone from Africa or Sri Lanka getting an immigrant visa. The rules and quotas for legal immigrants has nothing to do with whether there are or aren't any illegal immigrants in the country, unless you think the US would increase the number of legal immigrants if the number of illegal ones was reduced.

I think that most people who oppose large numbers of illegal immigrants will also oppose large numbers of legal immigrants.

[Philosoraptor]

35. My son in law came here from Scotland illegally.

He was very fortunate to start his own successful business but was actually an illegal for several years before marrying my daughter and having 3 lovely children.

The Mexican immigrant in my opinion is the sterotypical one most folks refer to.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Yes. Because they ARE here and aren't going anywhere.

Despite all the bogeyman rhetoric, the immigrants are here. To the tune of 12-20 million. It's absurd to think that we can, or will, deport 12 million men, women, and children. Not only would it be inhumane, it would be catastrophic for them and for our economy and society.

If parts of Africa were on our borders they would be flooding this country. Just as many are doing in Africa from many war-torn or poverty stricken countries to other neighboring countries.

[Sapere aude]

36. What is this jump ahead of the line idea? What line? Nothing would place people in line further

behind. That is a straw man I think. Most of the arguments against legalizing the undocumented are straw men I think. Of course I am not in the majority.

[Sapere aude]

33. That sounds like Nazi Germany to me. Is that what we really want?

Do we want to look back to this time and remember when we rounded up all the illegal immigrants and deported them? I guess most of us want that. I'm not most of us.

In Germany during WWII you had to carry papers showing you were of the chosen race or you weren't. Those who weren't were sent away somewhere. It was the law then and people were for enforcing the law.

The people in Germany were not racists or anti semitic they just enforced the laws on the books.

[sinkingfeeling]

38. Uh, because no 'Americans' will do that kind of work for the wages offered by

those who want to purge the US of all those awful illegals?