Edwards advisor bemoans "Metropolitan Opera Wing" of Dem Party

[BurtWorm]

He has apparently apologized--Edwards campaign must have made him--but just marvel over this ignorant, bigoted rant from a Democratic strategist:


http://time-blog.com/swampland/2007/06/go_ahead_and_shoot_at_me.html?xid=rss-swampland

Go Ahead And Shoot At Me

Dave "Mudcat" Saunders is a firebrand critic of the lack of economic fairness in rural and working class America and the rural liaison for John Edwards


I have bitched and moaned for years about the lack of tolerance in the elitist wing of the Democratic Party, or what I refer to as the "Metropolitan Opera Wing". These are the people who talk of tolerance but the only true tolerance they ever exhibit is for their own pseudo-intellectual arrogance.

If you want a perfect example of how this "intolerance" is helping the Democrats lose national elections, check out the responses to Joe Klein's post on Paris and Libby. To be clear, I have no problem with incivility. After all, I'm in the political business. However, as a pilgrim in the blogosphere, I thought blogging was for exchange of ideas, not personal attacks. Like his post or not, Klein in no way compromised the integrity of the fourth estate. This was not a news story. He was simply stating his opinion. Unless fourth estate integrity has been compromised, there is no rationale for calling him a "jackass", "fool", or "elite white guy".

I am certain I will get personally attacked for this next statement, but in all honesty, I don't care what the "Metropolitan Wing" of my party thinks. I don't like them. The damage the pseudo-intellectuals have done to my party by abandoning tolerance, combined with their erroneous stereotyping of my people and culture, is something that brings out my incivility. In his column, Joe said, "...the smart stuff is being drowned out by a fierce, bullying, often witless tone of intolerance that has overtaken the left-wing sector of the blogosphere." Amen. I must add that this same intellectual arrogance and intolerance overtook the party years ago, and for that very reason, my people in rural America left the tent.

So to those bloggers who believe in a straight-forward dialogue and exchange of ideas, God bless you and thank you. Together, you're coming up with a lot of good stuff, and frankly, much of it has been helpful to me. At the same time, those Democratic bloggers, who have appointed themselves as intellectually superior and believe the only way to win an argument is to shot the loudest with personal attacks, you can go to Hell. Intellectually superior? The truth is these people remind me of the guy who told so many people he had a horse that he finally went and bought a saddle. The "incivility" in their tones tell me they would be much more happy following "pro rasslin" than the political blogs.

[Bluzmann57]

1. Like it or not, he makes some points

There are some who feel they are "superior" to some of us who are mere working stiffs. Some of them are here in DU. Most are not, but let's face it folks, ripping a person just because they like Country music or NASCAR or hunting or a variety of other things happens among Dems. Perhaps Mr. Saunders (who I like) should have put it differently, not "go to hell", but he is straightforward.

[BurtWorm]

3. It's a two way street.

Saunders makes that clear enough. But what's particularly disturbing to me is the homophobic undertone to his rant. Did you pick up on that vibe?

[jobycom]

12. I didn't.

Even rereading it. What did I miss?

[BurtWorm]

17. Metropolitan Opera Wing?

Metropolitan wing? People who shout for tolerance?

Maybe it was unintentional, but it sounds like coded language to me.

[jobycom]

24. Hm. Maybe that's what he meant, but that's also a stereotype of gays.

Most of the gay friends I have or have had don't fit that "Will and Grace" stereotype, and would look more at home at a sports bar watching the Longhorns play the Sooners or at a night club listening to heavy metal than at the Met. But that could have been his implication--I just didn't up any homophobe vibes from it.

The comments about "tolerance" I took as him claiming hypocrisy, not criticizing Democrats for being tolerant. In other words, someone who says "Tolerance is the pillar of the Democratic Party, and all those stickin', filthy, cousin-marrying hillbillies can bite shoe leather!" are being hypocritical.

But you could be right. It was so poorly written, and so non-specific, it wasn't clear who he was attacking, and specifically for what. It didn't set off my alarms, and I'm usually sensitive, but I can be naive, too. If you are a southern redneck, like me, you tend to get angry at people using those descriptions as slurs, and that's the only vibe I picked up from him.

[WiseButAngrySara]

39. I read it as some New York Dems 'Metropolitan Opera Wing'

No coded language apparent to me here.

[WI_DEM]

23. I agree.

[speedoo]

2. Is Edwards actually PAYING this guy?

If so..... wow, maybe John's not as smart as I thought he was.

[BurtWorm]

6. Well, if this guy stuck to working on things he knows about,

like economic justice for rural Americans, then it's money well-spent. But this wasn't too bright a move.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. He hired two women who had written vitriolic

anti-Catholic screeds and outright blasphemy on their blogs. They ended up quitting but I never heard Edwards apologize. In fact, he was defending them before they quit and refused to fire them.

Edwards can talk the talk all he likes but he'll never get my vote because of that. If he couldn't see how wrong it was to have hired two bigots, he's politically tone-deaf. The majority of Americans are Christians, and churchgoers vote.

Not to mention that Edwards claims to be a Christian yet defended a woman who posted a blasphemous and disgusting comment that was not offensive merely to Catholics but to all Christians, even the most lukewarm ones. I never knew a Christian who condoned blasphemy; it's the one unforgivable sin. But John Edwards did not speak out against what the woman had written, much less about their anti-Catholic comments.

If the bloggers Edwards hired had said anything negative about Judaism or Islam, he'd have fired them in a New York minute and made public apologies for not checking their backgrounds more thoroughly. But Catholics got no apology.

That was stupid because in 2006, a significant number of Catholics who had been voting GOP voted Democratic. The Party needs the Catholic vote but only Karl Rove has been courting it. Democrats are foolishly willing to write off Catholics when a majority of Catholics will vote for a candidate who has publicly supported abortion if the candidate has good positions on other issues.

The KKK has always been as anti-Catholic as anti-black. Should Democrats be like the Klan?

A lot of left-wing Democrats need to wake up and realize that they're out of touch with most Americans, except for a fascination with Paris Hilton.

We claim to be for the poor but posts about poverty sink like stones. Ditto for posts about the homeless, the disabled, the elderly, all the people Democrats have traditionally cared about.

[brentspeak]

28. I'm going to vote for Edwards in a heartbeat. The people who blogged for Edwards don't influence me

[DemBones DemBones]

34. I guess your ox hasn't been gored yet.

A candidate who hires someone who turns out to have made outrageous statements like the two women did should fire them and apologize for hiring them. Edwards didn't. I would feel the same way if the two bloggers had attacked any group of people.

[DemBones DemBones]

4. In fact, there are Democratic bloggers

and posters "who have appointed themselves as intellectually superior and believe the only way to win an argument is to shot the loudest with personal attacks."

"These are the people who talk of tolerance but the only true tolerance they ever exhibit is for their own pseudo-intellectual arrogance."

"The damage the pseudo-intellectuals have done to my party by abandoning tolerance, combined with their erroneous stereotyping of my people and culture, is something that brings out my incivility. In his column, Joe said, "...the smart stuff is being drowned out by a fierce, bullying, often witless tone of intolerance that has overtaken the left-wing sector of the blogosphere." Amen. I must add that this same intellectual arrogance and intolerance overtook the party years ago, and for that very reason, my people in rural America left the tent."

It goes on here at DU all the time, stereotyping of white rural people, poor white people, white Southerners, Christians, as "rednecks," "idiots," "morons," and worse We have had long threads devoted to denigrating people with Southern accents.

There IS intolerance in the left wing.

[BurtWorm]

8. No shit.

There's intolerance all over the place. Why start a blog gig using intolerance to attack intolerance? Doesn't strike me as too bright.

[brentspeak]

30. How do you know the DU posters who have denigrated Southern accents are "left wingers"?

More often than not, the "left wingers" who make fun of Southerners and Christians turn out to be right wingers posing as left wingers. I have emails from RW idiots who thought I was one of them, admitting to me (or rather, boasting to me) that they were such-and-such "liberal" poster/s on such-and-such websites. The content of their posts? Almost always Southern-bashing, Democratic-bashing, whatever-bashing -- anything to promote internal discord on liberal sites.

[DemBones DemBones]

33. You're correct that there are trolls here but those who are not trolls

should be more vigorous in their opposition to any type of bashing here or on any Democratic or liberal forum.

You ought to reveal the information you have on those trolls posing as leftists to the DU admins and admins of other boards they frequent. A lot of trolls have been tombstoned because someone had information on them like you have received.

[Me.]

5. Metropolitan Opera Wing?

Clearly he is as ignorant of who those people are as he is regarding Klein. And forgive an incivility in this post though it strikes me as ironic that a guy who calls himself mud minds when others sling it, though he often does a good job of it himself, in quite the nicest way of course. As far as Klein and Libby. Remarkable, that a guy who has been found guilty by a jury of his peers, shouldn't do the time for his crime. When did perjury and obstruction become innocent pastimes?

[NoodleyAppendage]

7. Isn't labeling those with whom you do not agree as "pseudo-intellectual" an ad hominem attack?

This guy, while trying to make his point, seeks to belittle those with whom he does not agree by labelling them as "pseudo-intellectual." But, what he fails to recognize is the fact that he is engaging in the very behavior that he reportedly abhores in his rivals. Whatever.

J

[Zenlitened]

11. Don't worry about it. The right wing always uses the "latte-sipping liberals" meme against us.

Oh... wait... :crazy:

[Hardrada]

35. which replaced the "Whine and Cheese set" which I think,

replaced "limousine liberals."

[brentspeak]

9. I don't understand something

Saunders is attacking bloggers who advocate Edwards' populist economic and political positions, but he's defending the D.C. establishment shill (Klein) who stands at total odds to Saunders' alleged advocacy of rural, working class issues.

The people who attend the "Metropolitan Opera" aren't the liberal bloggers, who are actually blogging on behalf of the average, working-class American; it's the neoliberal D.C. cocktail-party circuit clowns like Joe Klein who write for shallow publications like Time and Newsweek.

Is this Saunders guy for real?

[BurtWorm]

10. Excellent point.

Maybe he thinks Joe Klein is a real man of the people, just as Klein thinks of David Broder.

:patriot:

[Blackhatjack]

14. The 'broad brush' approach to identifying groups often fails.... as is evidenced here. n/t

[Me.]

15. Right

It's that insider schizophrenia going on here. As for incivility, perhaps he missed the ruling last week where the court said that ad-libbed vulgarities on television could not be fined because of the example set by * and the veep. If the bar has been lowered it isn't because of bloggers. And does Mudcat have an opinion of Swiftboaters and the likes of Ann Coulter? If so I've never heard it.

[Blackhatjack]

13. Anybody disagree with this line?

"So to those bloggers who believe in a straight-forward dialogue and exchange of ideas, God bless you and thank you. Together, you're coming up with a lot of good stuff, and frankly, much of it has been helpful to me."

Just like many posts here and on blogs, there are items we agree with and those we do not agree with IN THE SAME POST.

I do not agree with many things in his post, but there are also lots of good points that could be obscured by the overall tenor of the post.

[jobycom]

16. I agree with the subject of his article, but not the object. I think.

It's hard to tell, since he is so unspecific I have no real idea what or who he is complaining about, but I think the gist of his debate is that he hates rude people, though he seems to be one himself. Further, I think, he seems to feel that rural Americans and southerners are often attacked by people who act and feel they are superior just by being non-southern or non-rural. I guess that's what he means by "pseudo-intellectuals" and "metropolitan opera Democrats," when Democrats hurl insults like redneck or hillbilly as an insult meaning "stupid."

I think that's what he's saying, and of course it is something I agree with. The quickest way to raise my hackles around here is to start calling someone--anyone--a "knuckle-dragger," "cousin breeder," "mouth breather," or any such rural stereotype. A slur is a slur.

And I think I understand what he means when he calls these people "pseudo-intellectual," because these bigots do feel intellectually superior to the rural or southern stereotype they are using as the base of their slur, but by using these slurs, they prove not to be. Calling Bush supporters "mouth breathers," for instance. I get angry at these types of insults, too.

What I don't like about his post, aside from the poor writing and the exceptionally vague nature of the article, is that his attacks are just as bigoted as the ones I think he is criticizing. Using "metropolitan opera wing" and other derogatory terms referring to urban, academic liberals as insults is no different than using "hillbilly." It's just a different target.

I prefer to see positions debated rather than people attacked, and specific words and phrases, or specific articles, criticized, rather than generalizations about people and ideas made. That's the difference between bigotry and idealism. One is bad, the other good. Of course, it's not always easy to keep those lines clear and crisp, but one should try a bit harder than the author of this article did.

[KingFlorez]

19. Sounds like something a Republican would say

[edwardsfeingold08]

20. I don't get linking this with Edwards

This was posted a couple times yesterday too and I'm wondering why these thoughts are so linked with Edwards. Edwards participates in chats at Dailykos. Elizabeth is an active member of DU and other liberal sites. Edwards hired Trippi to work on his campaign. Clearly, Edwards sees a value in liberal bloggers and I don't think there's any reason to put these questionable ramblings of Mudcat on him. It seems like a reach.

The title of this thread could have just as easily said Webb advisor. Why aren't these ramblings being attached to Webb as well?

[BurtWorm]

21. Because that's how he's described at Swampland

He represents himself as an Edwards campaign consultant.

[edwardsfeingold08]

22. But it's also how you described him here.

I don't think his blog was speaking for Edwards or the Edwards campaign. Do you?

[RamboLiberal]

26. Good grief

Guess your DU id shows who you support. Who is paying Saunders right now? Edwards, that's who. Bet if a McCain or Giuliani advisor posted something that set off a bit of a storm you wouldn't argue well gee you could've posted him as a Bush advisor! Fess up.

[edwardsfeingold08]

32. Because I have Edwards in my name, you chastise me instead of answering my question?

I just asked if you think these opinions are shared by Edwards. I don't know why that's such a big deal for me to ask that.

[RamboLiberal]

25. Exactly - he's working for Edwards now

I got rapped yesterday for this for posting in GD-Politics that blogs discussing identify Saunders as an Edward's advisor which he is at this time!

[brentspeak]

29. This Saunders guy doesn't influence me. I'm going to vote Edwards.

[Bluebear]

27. What did the Met ever do to this guy? nt

[Hardrada]

36. I think he meant the Mets!

Doesn't anyone here know to sing this goddamn opera?

[Neecy]

31. gee....

I like opera, and I'm not part of the Democratic party elite.

This is the second slam against opera I've seen in the last month - the first came in a campaign contribution letter from Obama's wife where she made a point to say that their first date wasn't to the opera but to a church on the South Side.

It's kind of funny because many, many American opera singers are Democrats. Go figure.

[REP]

37. Being Ignorant of Opera is a Badge of Pride for Some

I have no idea why; perhaps they dislike bel canto? True, it's a form of singing that takes far more skill and talent than what passes for most popular music, but it's not difficult to listen to, fercryinoutloud. Or perhaps it's the misguided notion that money = taste, which a quick glance at either of the Hilton sisters will quickly dispel. Or maybe it's that their only exposure to opera has been to a really crappy one, such as "Amahl and the Night Visitors" :puke: Who knows, but it's their loss.

[Odin2005]

38. This guy is totally correct.

I am sick of us folks from rural and small town America being told by the upper-middle class yuppies that we are uncivilized hicks and un-evolved knuckle-draggers. It's a load of BS that only plays into the hands of the Pukes.

[BurtWorm]

40. Totally correct?

So you hate big city Dems too?