CLARK To Lieberman: "Only Someone Who NEVER Wore The Uniform Would Make Threats At This Point"

[kpete]

Gen. Wesley Clark| BIO
Joe Lieberman Is At It Again

On CBS's Face the Nation, Lieberman said, "If (the Iranians) don't play by the rules, we've got to use our force, and to me, that would include taking military action to stop them from doing what they're doing."

Senator Lieberman's saber rattling does nothing to help dissuade Iran from aiding Shia militias in Iraq, or trying to obtain nuclear capabilities. In fact, it's highly irresponsible and counter-productive, and I urge him to stop.

This kind of rhetoric is irresponsible and only plays into the hands of President Ahmadinejad, and those who seek an excuse for military action. What we need now is full-fledged engagement with Iran. We should be striving to bridge the gulf of almost 30 years of hostility and only when all else fails should there be any consideration of other options. The Iranians are very much aware of US military capabilities. They don't need Joe Lieberman to remind them that we are the militarily dominant power in the world today.

Only someone who never wore the uniform or thought seriously about national security would make threats at this point. What our soldiers need is responsible strategy, not a further escalation of tensions in the region. Senator Lieberman must act more responsibly and tone down his threat machine.

Visit StopIranWar.com, and sign the petition to President Bush today!

more at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gen-wesley-clark/joe-lieberman-is-at-it-ag_b_51828.html

[RufusTFirefly]

1. That maybe so, and I can't stand Joe....

... but I don't really go for this "My epaulettes are bigger than your epaulettes" kind of thing.

[Dinger]

2. Well, I Kinda Like It

And may I venture to say that I am likely not the only one?

[malaise]

3. You're not

:D

[youthere]

9. Me likey plenty.

[sarge43]

12. No you're not.

Clark speaks a truth. It's all too easy to talk the talk when you don't have to .... well, you know rest.

[ikojo]

44. No one in LIEberman's family will ever have to

fight in a war or join the military. LIEberman is of the class where there are more options available other than the military.

[spanone]

19. I like it a tremendous amount.

[Coexist]

34. You are not alone!

I'm pushing around you to get in front and clap.

[BikeWriter]

5. I liked it just fine.

[roguevalley]

14. consider it this way: I couldn't speak for something with authority

if I never did it, especially if it impacts others. For instance, I could never be a spokesman for brain surgery because I have never had it or done it. My opinions shouldn't weigh equally with those that do. Lieberman speaks from his ass about something he only saw watching Combat and Rescuing Private Ryan. He had his chance to be a man for his generation's war but he fled it. Therefore, his authority, credibility and point of view does take a back seat to those who were there and did what they were called to do. Fuck Lieberman. He's a coward.

[Mad_Dem_X]

58. EXACTLY

Kudos to General Clark. :applause: :patriot:

Screw you, Joe! x(

[DavidDvorkin]

17. I agree with you

It's even worse than that.

He's saying, as others have, that a civilian who hasn't been in uniform has less right to express an opinion on such matters than someone who has been. That attitude is unacceptable to me and should be to all Americans.

[RufusTFirefly]

21. Bush (technically) "wore the uniform." Clinton did not.

Look how well that worked out.
If we disqualify all of the current candidates who "haven't worn the uniform," there aren't many left.

By the way, here's Rudy, "wearing the uniform"

[FrenchieCat]

23. 800,000 Rwandans macheted to death would tell you that Clinton wasn't all that either.....

if they were still alive......and maybe if Clinton would have worn the uniform, he wouldn't have been so timid in understanding that there are times when it is right and proper to use the military to do good.

[EOTE]

52. Such as in Kosovo? n/t

[tabasco]

37. How absurd can you get?

Anyone can put on a uniform. Not everyone can perform honorably.

Clark performed honorably in combat and achieved the rank of 4-star general. Comparing service like Clark's to service like Bush's demonstrates a tremendous lack of understanding of the military. Either that or outright stupidity.

[RufusTFirefly]

39. Thanks. You just proved my point. n/t

[dennis4868]

43. I think Wes...

meant, wore the uniform in combat. Anyone can wear the damn uniform. It's having combat experience and knowing what war is really all about it what we need now in the discourse.

[FrenchieCat]

22. It's even worse than that........Lieberman was simply advocating for war and needed

to be put back in his place. What better person than one who knows war all too well to do this?

Unlike what you are stating......this call out is not about the freedom of expressing an opinion, it's about challenging those who would be advocates for war. That is precisely the attitude I want to see in a leader; one who uses their life experience on an issue to tell another without such experience that he is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Lieberman was simply out of line and got smacked down.

Far as I am concerned....that is sweet and totally appropriate. :patriot:

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. No, he's not saying he doesn't have the right to speak.

He's merely saying that people who have been there and done that would not say anything as stupid as that. Experience counts, and those with military experience at command level know we don't have the capacity to back up threats like that without going nuclear.

Iran has how many hundreds of thousands under arms? And if we attack them, what are they going to do? We don't have an army to stand up to them - we have an occupation force scattered across the country. So if we bomb Iran, and Iran responds by sending three divisions across the border, the only way we can stop them is with nukes.

Now THAT is unacceptable.

[tabasco]

25. Chickenhawks really hate Clark.

A 4-star general damn sure has the right to give a military opinion to a fucking cowardly chickenshit like Holy Joe.

[Tom Rinaldo]

28. Clark's statement was more careful than you imply

"...never wore the uniform or thought seriously about national security". In other words Clark grants that sound serious thinkers can have intelligent opinions on national security matters even if they "never wore the uniform". Actually Clark gave Lieberman a double put down with that phrase. But if you are pointing out that it is not coincidence that Clark is calling out Lieberman as another chickenhawk who never served, with that I do agree.

[RufusTFirefly]

29. Thank you. Your point is well taken.

By the way, General Curtis LeMay "wore the uniform" and ran for Vice President.

He wanted to nuke Vietnam.

[FrenchieCat]

33. General LeMay was Air Force....and witnessed Truman go nuclear on Japan

which I guess gave him some inspiration to his belief that nuking Vietnam could be "done".

I don't think anyone is stating that all military personnel know better than all civilians about war. However the clear facts are that Wes Clark was right about Iraq from the beginning, and Lieberman, who was our 2000 Vice Presidential candidate was the war mongerer in that case, and was very wrong. I believe that this gives Wes Clark room to talk.

[yardwork]

46. I think that everyone who can should be speaking up against this!

We can't allow idiots like Lieberman (yes I called him an idiot) go unanswered.

[Maat]

48. I do!

Wes Clark has all of the credibility in the world; Joe - he has NONE.

[robbedvoter]

57. It's about moral authority to talk about war, National security

He can't comoare epaulettes with Joe as Joe never had any. The point against the chickenhawks cannot be made often enough. if you miss it, your loss.

[Skidmore]

59. I think the problems is that Joe does not have nor has he ever had

epaulettes, although he's got more than his share of nerve, especially when it comes to putting other peoples lives on the line for his sacred cause.

[Missy Vixen]

4. I'm sorry, but if anyone deserves to make this statement

it's General Wes Clark, who actually served his country in uniform.

Perhaps Mr. Lieberman might want to listen to what he has to say. Then again, I'm sure Mr. Lieberman is not a very good listener.

Julie

[billbuckhead]

13. Wes Clark took a bullet for this nation

[roguevalley]

15. four bullets wasn't it?

[Dinger]

16. Actually, I Think It Was Four Bullets, From An AK-47

And saved the lives of many soldiers right after he was hit.
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[pork medley]

24. Wes Clark took a bullet for containment

[FrenchieCat]

26. Clark took 4 bullets and nearly died because that is what

he volunteered to do. It's called serving your country...and it is done all of the time. Or are you faulting the U.S. troops personally for Iraq?

[pork medley]

27. no, of course not, the US military is just 'following orders'

they are morally inculpable

[FrenchieCat]

31. Vietnam was a draft war.......and so those who chose not to serve.....

had to try hard not to so, or were simply "lucky".

But if your overall message is that we shouldn't have a military.....that's fine, and you can live in that world....when you find it.


BTW, I'm sad to see that you are more interested in panning the one speaking out against war today.....while taking up for the one advocating for it. Interesting.....to hear this from one who doesn't believe that we should even have a military.

[pork medley]

32. eh?

isnt your point that wesley clark volunteered for vietnam and that that makes him a patriot (he supported the vietnam war too)?

or is it that we have no right to find fault in the US military's continued presence in iraq?

[FrenchieCat]

35. No......that wasn't the point. Your point was that Clark was

somehow not really much of anything because he fought in Vietnam, a war fought based on the containment theory....and that somehow military obeying orders makes them complicit with the policies set by the elected officials (usually civilians, many Chicken Hawks).

You are making the military troops the vilains, and somehow, the civilian leadership no worse.

Actually Clark wrote his thesis on the War in Vietnam......and has always had very little love for high altitude bombing (part of why he ended up with "issues" with the pentagon on Kosovo strategies) strategy used in Vietnam.

You obviously dislike the military and hold them accountable for the policies ditacted by the civilian leadership.

[pork medley]

36. pfft.. i dont give a fuck who is or isn't a "patriot"

and the point still stands that wes clark supported the vietnam war and does not regret his support

and i suppose the "military troops" have zero moral agency?

[FrenchieCat]

38. Since you don't give a "fuck".....

Why are you still posting in this thread?

We got your message; Clark is not someone who you admire....no matter what he is saying. Lieberman, on the other hand.....

[Tom Joad]

6. Clark says something straighforward, Harry Reid said "Lieberman means well"

"means well" my ass, that guy is nuts

[Hubert Flottz]

8. Harry Reid is a Joe Lieberman democrat too.

Maybe the voters in his state need to find a senator who has the guts to stand up for them like Lamont.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

10. Reid have his knee pads on when he capitulated?

[Hubert Flottz]

7. It just proves that we democrats were right about Joe.

He don't have the smarts to be a democratic Senator. He never did!

[Edweird]

11. It's about damn time! People with actual military experience

have the right (or obligation) to tell these asshole chickenhawks to STFU. And no better than to have it be Clark slapping down weasleman.

[Ilsa]

18. And reading between the lines of Wes Clark's speech, there are the

issues of over-extending our military to a point where we become vulnerable at home, not just "over there".

I have no problem wih Clark using his not just his military service, but his diplomatic experience to back up his criticism of Holy Joe and anyone who thinks like him. Clark personally is beloved in Kosovo, IIRC, for his peacekeeping work.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

20. Can someone tell LIEberman to chill out with his wars?

If he loves Middle Eastern wars so much, he should send his son over there.

What's his damn problem? While the rest of the country acknowledges the stupidity of our foreign policy, he's trying to dig us even deeper! It's not even in our national interest anymore.

[roamer65]

30. Wesley Clark is a true patriot.

He's speaking "truth to power" and that is true American patriotism.
:patriot:

Get 'em, Wes!

[RiverStone]

61. Who I wish would run for President! n/t

[FrenchieCat]

40. Kick

:kick:

[Jonathan50]

41. Actually, Clark got one of his facts wrong..

There hasn't been thirty years of hostility between Iran and the US.

The true number of years is over fifty.

Ever since the 1953 CIA engineered overthrow of the democratically elected Mossadegh government in Iran.

Other than that, I agree with Clark.

[bananarepublican]

42. Lieberman and Wolfowitz are buddies! What do you expect?

Regarding the buddy thing... look up Wayne Madsen.

[LeftishBrit]

50. I think Wes Clark should be taken very seriously, but...

I don't think that Wayne Madsen should be taken seriously.

[brg5001]

45. Clark's point wasn't that you HAD to serve to comment...

It was that only someone who had never served would make blustery, "bring it on" comments like Joe's.

[Cameron27]

49. Thank you, I think that's exactly

the point Clark was making. :thumbsup:

Those who've never experienced the brutality of war resort to saber rattling, those who have, generally believe there are better alternatives.

[nonconformist]

51. Speak it, Wesley!

:loveya:Clark:loveya:

[MasonJar]

53. With what I have read about General Clark, I doubt he is using his military background as anything

more than as a vessel of extraordinary knowledge and experience in the field. He is not only a retired general, but is also brilliant, having graduated # 1 in his class at West Point. Leiberman, on the other hand, not having served, has no grasp of what consequences there are on a personal level to such calls to arms.

[AntiFascist]

54. I agree, this is not supporting the troops, it is only putting them in harm's way nt

[David Zephyr]

55. K&R and Kudos to Wes Clark!

:kick:

[dogday]

56. That statement applies to most of this Administration

Bunch of chicken hawks

[neverforget]

60. Liebermans mouth and someone else's ass....the mark of a true coward.