Who thinks they can drive safely while using a hand held cell phone?

[NNN0LHI]

I don't. I forget to use my directional. Swerve from one side of the road to the other. I miss my turns. Etc.

[EFerrari]

1. There is no way.

I have two cells (business & personal) and there's no way I can focus on driving and on a conversation at the same time.

:rofl:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. next time, try having just one phone call at a time.

There are stretches of Illinois that a flat, no curves, no nothing. Nothing wrong with usin the phone there. City driving? that is something else.

[EFerrari]

7. Look, I have to drive on seven hills and one way streets

and no left turns.

No phone calls at a time is the bare minimum to get home in one piece. lol

[Iris]

201. yes, for me, it's not holding the phone that's the problem; it's that the conversation takes my mind

off the road.

[Orsino]

2. There are times when it's relatively safe.

No worse than juggling soda cans, maybe.

I worry about dividing my meager attention, though, and really resent seeing other people taking risks with my life and theirs.

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. it's not about the hands being occupied -

it's about the mind being occupied.

Studies of driver impairment show that people wearing headsets are just as likely to be reaction impaired as people with hand-held phones.

[karlrschneider]

44. Interesting claim. All us pilots wear them.

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

55. Let me know when it's normal for pilots to fly within 20' of ten other planes.

:shrug:

[karlrschneider]

62. Let me know when cars are going 400 mph.

...

[TahitiNut]

64. Fine. Adjust for speed. Make it 160 feet.

:shrug:

[karlrschneider]

70. That's as wide as a runway. There are planes sitting right next to it.

You must have taken your pissy pills twice today. :eyes:

[TahitiNut]

82. "sitting"?? At 400 mph??

It doesn't take "pissy pills" to realize that making comparisons between flying and driving are invalid unless other factors are considered ... ESPECIALLY the far higher liklihood of collision on a highway due to distance, velocity vectors, stop-and-go, and other factors which make the two hugely differing.

[karlrschneider]

85. Airplanes don't have brakes. Why are you being so fucking obtuse?

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

99. Just who the fuck said they did?

Why must you resort to personal attacks? Got nothing else? (Sheesh!)

[karlrschneider]

107. Ignored

.

[LBJDemocrat]

229. Hahahahhahahahahah

You people are bickering over such silliness.

[BlueCollar]

141. I've been a certificated mechanic for over twenty years

and I can assure you that every airplane I've ever worked on had brakes...

[RaleighNCDUer]

75. While driving 70 mph on a busy freeway? nt

[Ron Green]

92. While talking to somebody about your hair appointment?

[kath]

120. But pilots aren't gabbing away, having chatty conversations, arguing with their kids, etc -

therefore they are not as distracted.
Studies have shown that, even with a headset, when someone is having a phone conversation they tend to "zone out" in terms of paying attention to the road, because they become so focused on the phone conversation.
And it's different from conversing with someone who is in the car with you - people seem more free to interrupt such conversations to attend to such things as making a left turn. Also, the other person in the car with you can alert you to hazards if you're becoming too engaged in the conversation and zoned out as to driving - "whoa! look at for that truck starting to turn!".

[karlrschneider]

124. I certainly agree with your observation that there are a lot of shitty drivers.

...

[Jonathan50]

125. I know a lot of people who when talking to a passenger in the car

Just absolutely *have* to look at them.

It scares the absolute bejeezus out of me because I almost never take my eyes off the road for anything.

I think talking on a headset is less distracting, at least for that sort of driver.

[kath]

137. Agree that a driver that has to look at whoever s/he's talking to is terrifying.

In terms of the headset issue, see other posts in this thread about your brain functioning differently during a phone conversation (hands-free or not) and a conversation with someone near you - VISUAL parts of the brain are heavily engaged during a phone conversation (much more so than during a "live" convo) and therefore your ability to VISUALLY attend to what is happening on the road is significantly impaired. Well-supported by scientific evidence.

I think the "graduated drivers' license" rules for teens, where, for the first year of licensure (or until 17 - rules vary by state) they are allowed to have no other teens in the car or at most one (except for relatives) make good sense. New teen drivers have a hard enough time driving *without* distractions - eliminating as many of these as possible is beneficial. A total cell-phone ban at least for new drivers would be a very good idea.
On one of the Scientific American PBS specials with Alan Alda, they studied drivers' reaction times while using a cell phone. The performance of teen drivers deteriorated to a much greater extent than others - but EVERYONE'S performance declined.

[uppityperson]

218. Told 1 of those that bad manners of killing someone are worse than not looking at them when talking.

Also worse bad manners to scare someone and besides, it is really hard to actually hear someone when they are driving and not looking at the road.

[Kerrytravelers]

169. Isn't wearing headsets an important part of being a pilot? Don't you have to communicate with the

control tower and the people who guide airplanes in, etc? I would think it would be part of the training, whereas me, who isn't a pilot, isn't trained to communicate via headset and steer anything! (ANd believe me, I'm already nervous enough driving. I can't imagine flying a plane!

[TahitiNut]

187. Yeah. Everyone knows that drivers are just talking to Ground Traffic Control!

:eyes: So, let's put all cars on radar and assign people to help them keep out of each others' way.

(Sheesh! What fucking idiocy!)

[Kerrytravelers]

188. Wait... just to be sure... I'm not an idiot... right?

It's been a long day at the keyboard. Just checking that my reading comprehension isn't to the point where I should log off immediately!

[TahitiNut]

189. Not that I've noticed. But we all have the potential.

:evilgrin:

The more I read some of the stuff in this thread, the more I think I'm an idiot for just going near a highway some of these people drive, and talk, and text, and compute, and whatever ... on.

I've always thought a coworker I had in the 60s had a great idea. Declare one day each year as a day when all traffic laws were suspended - no speed limits, no lights, no stop signs, no stay to the right - no traffic laws at all. Let all the "skilled drivers" go at it - and those of us without that arrogance just hide. Let them all kill each other. That'd make 364 days each year safer.

[Kerrytravelers]

190. Oh good. However, there are times I have exceeded my potential!

:evilgrin:

Your co-worker might be onto something there!

[NNN0LHI]

212. Auto-pilot. Co-pilots. Radar. Alarms that warn of impending disasters. Cars don't have those

I have listened to pilots as they checked their international flights into La Guardia. There is Ø idle chatter. I mean none. Flight number, altitude, assigned radio frequency, and an occasional runway number was about all I ever heard.

Driving a car while chatting on a cell phone and piloting an airliner while staying in contact with ground control are not comparable in any way.

Don

[Liberal In Texas]

226. I don't know where to start on this. Pilots gab to each other on the radios and there are

frequencies that are just ship-to-ship or ship to ground, etc.

Not only do I know this from my flying lesson times, but my Air scanners would frequently give me interesting tid-bits about where the next meeting at the tower would be held, or where they were planning on having drinks later that night.

The difference is situational awareness. Pilots are trained to leave the radios alone and fly the aircraft when they are encountering traffic. One might give an altitude or vector quickly and just forget the radio from then on. If ATC asks a question, sometimes just a "punch" or two on the transmit key on the stick you are holding is enough to know that you received the communication and are complying.

Other times, when orbiting endlessly while the guy operating the gyro-stabilized camera in the back seat is shooting some scene and the traffic reporter is blathering on, you can make idle conversation.

Many (if not most) times in accidents, when the aircraft is going down, the pilots are NOT talking to ATC about the problem, they're flying the machine, trying to figure out what is wrong.

Now, with that in mind. I can perfectly talk on a cell phone on the interstate at 70 mph with nobody in front of me and nobody behind me as I cruise through Oklahoma or Kansas. In traffic, if the damn thing rings, I ignore it.

I also don't use the damn phone as an extension of my personal life. It's there to communicate a message, and then we are done.

There is NO one answer.

If you can't handle situational awareness, you shouldn't be using the phone. But who is to decide?

[TwilightZone]

3. I'm usually an extremely attentive driver, but...

in the very small handful of times that I've been on the phone while driving, I could just as well have been drunk.

Decision-making ability and reaction time are definitely compromised.

[ieoeja]

43. In my experience, cell phone is worse.

I've used a cell phone while driving a handful of times. And it was ... bad, every time. On the other hand, I've driven drunk thousands of times. Some of those were ... bad, as well. But most of the time not so much.

[Catherine Vincent]

4. I've done it before but I usually make it quick.

And I mostly use my ear piece. I also have the bluetooth thingy in my car but I never use it because the other side say that they hardly hear me. I guess I should find out what's going on with that.

[Arkansas Granny]

6. It only takes riding with someone using a hand held cell phone to

see that it does interfere with their driving. Most of these people would argue that their driving is not affected, but it is, especially if they are looking at the phone while dialing a number or reaching for it when it rings. Hands-free would be much safer, IMO.

[OregonBlue]

10. Hands free might be safer but you cannot concentrate on driving if you are

listening and responding to a phone call. Maybe hands free in Texas, Montana, Illinois, Iowa, where you can drive for 50 miles without encountering a curve and sometimes without encountering another driver is okay but, we all know you cannot engage in a serious conversation and pay attention to your driving at the same time.

[Arkansas Granny]

24. You may be right on that, but talking hands free seems like it

would be the same as talking to another passenger in the vehicle. I don't see much difference, myself.

[Kerrytravelers]

26. The difference I see is that when I'm on the phone, I am constantly forming images in my mind, where

if the person is in the car with me, there is less focus on forming a mental image of what the other person is saying.

Mr. kt read an article talking about this. When we were next in the car, he actually had me call my mom and have a casual conversation. He asked me what I was thinking about while I spoke to her. I realized I was spending a great amount of time thinking about where she was (at her house) and what she was doing (petting the cat, fixing lunch.) Then, he moved into casual conversation with me. Finally, he asked me what I was thinking about while we were casually talking. I realized I was wasn't having to concentrate as hard because he was right there and I could read his expressions and not have to create a visual image of him, his location and his expressions.

I think he may still have the article in his office at work. At this time, I do not know where he article was published.

[RaleighNCDUer]

102. A huge componant of conversations is non-verbal -

not only are there visual clues you get when talking face to face, there are subtleties of voice that do not carry over the phone. When talking on the phone, the mind works overtime trying to make up for the missing information. That is why there is virtually no difference in the level of impairment in driving tests when the person is holding a phone or talking hands-free.

And, you might note, that the tests are done in controlled conditions, when people KNOW they are being tested on their reaction times and can be expected to be at their best - not unwary people out on the highway - and still the level of impairment is equal to three alcoholic drinks.

[Oeditpus Rex]

114. You want proof?

Drive five miles while talking with your passenger, then try to recall the things you saw along those five miles.

Then, drive five miles while talking on your phone, hands-free or not, and try the recall again.

Note the differences.

[ProfessorGAC]

32. Not Encountering Another Driver for 50 Miles? In Illinois?

Have you ever been here? There's over 11 million people in a state half the area of yours. You can't drive 50 miles in any direction, at any time of day without encountering other vehicles. Unless one is on some random country road, (which is true anywhere), it doesn't happen in IL.
GAC

[OregonBlue]

191. Yah, I've been there. I meant not encounter a curve in Illinois.

[Bucky]

8. I'm very carefull when driving and calling. I only use the camera phone sparingly.

And I never read the really long text messages until I get to a red light.

[wuushew]

9. Whoever invented cell phones should be shot

Not only is it an extremely inefficient means of transmitting voice communications, it also creates visual blight and aviation hazards through the mass construction of transmission towers.

Materials used in cell phone batteries are also in demand now in other consumer electronics. Why should your laptop or hybrid car battery cost more because of the untold millions of cell phones sucking up component materials?

[TahitiNut]

13. Let's start with the Brainiac that made OnStar a built-in option.

Fucking imbeciles!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. you mean, OnSpy?

you do realize that they can listen in on your car, without a warrant, ANY TIME THEY WANT?
and yes, police are doing just that.

[Rosemary2205]

35. Onstar saved my life.

A few years ago my husband and I got nailed by a drunk going 70+ MPH. It was at night, in Tennessee on this stretch of freeway that even in the daytime always seems to be half deserted. The Onstar came with the car when we bought it or else I would never have had it. I did not own a cell at the time. We got flipped over down in a ditch well below the freeway surface and it turns out the drunk was down there too. It would have hours at best and perhaps even days before anyone would have noticed us down there. There's no doubt in my mind Onstar saved our lives.

Due to a change of financial situation I have a very old lift van now - but if money ever becomes available again I WILL buy another car with Onstar in it.

[Liberal In Texas]

228. OnStar story.

I'm glad it helped you and perhaps probably saved your lives.

That said, I had OnStar in my nearly new SUV and was rear-ended by a truck from the phone company on a freeway ramp in Dallas.

My bell was rung as my head hit the headrest pretty hard. I hit the "emergency" button on the mirror and the delightful little sound came up and an operator in St. Louis asked if there was a problem. Yes, I responded. I was just in an accident and send some help. I really didn't know at the time if I was injured or not. (Probably...as I wasn't very coherent.)

The next voice I hear is a State Trooper. Good, I thought, I tell him I'm on I-30 in downtown Dallas on X ramp and I've just been rear-ended pretty badly. (BTW, as an aside to other posts today, the phone company guy I'm sure was ON A CELL PHONE when he hit me.)

Good, now I have the trooper coming to my aid. Except, except....wait for it.

Trooper: I'm on (I)35 at (major intersection I can't remember right now.)

Me: I'm on I-30 at the (x exit).

pause....

Trooper: Are you sure you're on I-30? (Because I-30 runs east and west, I 35 runs north and south.)

Me: Yes, I'm in Dallas, at...

Trooper: Well, I'm in San Antonio...

The trooper is in San Antonio!

OnStar: "He should be with you in a few minutes."

Me: "Do you know how far San Antonio is from Dallas?"

OnStar: ...It can't be too far.. (or words to that effect)

Me: It's at least 6 hours!

Trooper: Sorry, sir. <click>

OnStar: I don't understand what the problem is....

I got out of the SUV and called 911 on my cell phone.

I have since let the OnStar sub expire and will NEVER have it again.


...Again, I'm glad they helped you. But in my opinion, they are not worth the money.

[karlrschneider]

46. Aviation hazards? Those towers are about 150 feet high.

:eyes:

[wuushew]

87. Yes

many have warning lights on them. Are you pro-cell?

[karlrschneider]

112. "pro-cell"?? Is that like being "pro-car"?

I was simply pointing out that a 150 foot high tower is not a threat to air safety unless somebody's flying 100 feet high and not watching where he's going.

[wuushew]

115. well...

http://www.agaviation.org/towerreport.htm

[karlrschneider]

122. Crop dusting is a dangerous occupation anyway.

So 1 in 14 of their accidents were collision with a tower. The link doesn't say -how many- that was. The things aren't exactly camoflaged, though...

[Liberal In Texas]

231. And wires are a dangerous obstacle to helicopters.

I had a friend who gave a lecture on the danger of flying into wires the week before he himself was ducking clouds in Colorado and clipped high tension wires strung over a valley in a JetRanger. It killed both him and the photographer aboard.

Also, wires will snag the tail rotors and bring a chopper down.

It's all situational awareness and if you let your guard down, you could be toast.

[ComerPerro]

11. Wow, a cell-phone bashing thread. What a refreshingly original and bold stance. Good for you

[Alexander]

33. Not bashing cell phones, just idiots who use them while driving...

If you can use a cell phone safely, you're not the problem.

[ComerPerro]

34. well, according to this thread, anyone who thinks they can use a phone safely is a dangerous idiot

[Alexander]

36. Using it "safely" by yakking while trying to drive?

If that's your definition of using a cell phone "safely", I hope I never encounter you on the road.

[ComerPerro]

39. I've been in one accident, where another drive ran the stop sign. That's it

wasn't on the phone then, and neither was she.

And while I do not make a habit of talking on the phone and driving (I don't like using the phone without a reason), I have been known to talk and drive if someone calls me and I am driving, or if I need to talk to someone while driving to save time ("I'm running late, traffic sucks, be there in fifteen minutes"). But I don't suddenly turn into an inattentive, swerving jackass just because I am on the phone.

Most people who have problems driving and talking on the phone at the same time would have the same trouble using a hands-free set. Its not about the requirement of holding the phone. Its that they didn't give a shit about the road anyway, and are easily distracted. If it wasn't a phone call distracting them from driving, it would be the radio or the passenger or kids or even their own thoughts.

[Alexander]

53. Can't argue with that.

[Az]

58. You do not understand the factors in play

Talking to someone you cannot see causes your brain to behave differently than talking to someone you can see. It engages the visual centers of your brain to create an internal image of the person you are talking to. This is because we are a visually communicative species. Most of our communication takes place visually. Most of the emotions and import is conveyed through visual aspects. The mind thus creates this internal template to deal with talking to those we cannot see. This takes away from the ability to actually deal with traffic conditions in front of you.

It does not mean you cease to be able to drive. But it does impair your ability to drive as safe as if you were not talking to someone on a phone.

[ComerPerro]

69. I have no problem doing it, and neither do plenty of Americans.

And did you even read what I wrote?

Its not the cell phones. They are just one of many distractions. The problem is priorities. People who drive carelessly with a cell phone will drive carelessly anyway, because they don't consider the act of driving to the most important activity.

[Az]

79. And you do not seem to be listening to me

Just because you have not hit anything does not mean your ability to drive while talking on a cell phone is not impaired. It is far more impaired than other less invasive distractions. Conversation takes on a major portion of your brain. It doesn't matter if you take driving responsibly. It is just neurology. You cannot concentrate as much on the road while talking on the phone as you can when not talking on the phone. That is simply a fact. Your ability to react is degraded while doing so. That is a fact. You cannot stop the car as fast. You cannot take in as many visual cues. You cannot see as far ahead. All because your visual centers are trying to multitask. You may think you have the skill to stop in time but the simple fact is that you have just been lucky so far.

[ComerPerro]

90. according to you, driving itself impairs driving

there are always gonna be factors that dimish reaction time.

Yes, it is a fact that reaction time is decreased. But not significantly. As someone who has done plenty of driving, I can tell you with absolute confidence that the difference between cell phone and no cell phone in reaction time probably won't help you, because you will crash anyway. There are limits to human reaction and vehicle capability.

[Az]

117. Lots of things can impair your concentration

But I am sorry to tell you that talking on a cell phone ranks up there pretty high. It is demonstrable. And the impedement is significant. Enough that it can make the difference in a critical situation. It is just simply a fact that your reactions are better when not concentrating on a phone conversation than when not. I don't care if you have had no accidents. Study after study shows it to be the case.

Here are some examples:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051209113320.htm
Excerpt

In their study the researchers asked volunteers to respond to a variety of auditory and visual cues then measured the responses. When the volunteers prepared for one task, such as responding to the color red, their responses were swift and accurate. When the researchers added a second element – the recognition of shapes as well as color – the task switch considerably delayed the responses, even when the volunteers were prepared for it.

"People are surprised that there is such a delay," Lien said. "Practice can help a person reduce the 'cost' of switching tasks, but it apparently cannot eliminate that cost."

Lien said the study can be applied to the real world, especially to drivers who talk on cell phones. On the surface, she said, it appears that drivers are trying to accomplish just two tasks – driving and conversing. But each task is complicated and multi-faceted, greatly increasing the "cost" of switching. The result: inattention and slow reaction times.

"A lot of people think talking on the cell phone while driving is natural, but each time someone asks a question or changes the subject, it's like taking on a new task," Lien said. "It requires a certain amount of thought and preparation. It's actually quite different than listening to the radio, where you don't need to respond.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/01/030129080944.htm

"Even when participants are directing their gaze at objects in the driving environment, they may fail to 'see' them because attention is directed elsewhere," says the new study by psychologists David Strayer, Frank Drews and William A. Johnston. "Phone conversations impair driving performance by withdrawing attention from the visual scene, yielding a form of inattention blindness."

The study concludes that that inattention blindness explains the researchers' widely publicized 2001 findings that users of hands-free and hand-held cell phones are equally impaired, missing more traffic signals and reacting to signals more slowly than motorists who do not use cell phones.

The new study is being published in the March 2003 issue of the Journal of Experimental Psychology: Applied. A portion of the study also is featured in the February-March 2003 issue of Injury Insights, published by the National Safety Council.

[Telly Savalas]

171. Quote all the science you want...

but there's nothing in the Bible that says driving while talking on a cell phone is dangerous.

[Az]

176. Wait a minute! I am pretty sure I can find a verse

Lev 11:6 And he that shouteth from his ox cart to his family, that too is an abomination unto the Lord.

[TahitiNut]

172. That's very clear to me. I can't decently interact with someone on the phone if

... I'm also watching TV. I have to mute the sound and face away. If I even glance at it, I lose track of the conversation. I can almost always tell of the person I'm speaking with has the TV on or is looking at their PC monitor. Their conversation degrades to mere protocol sounds .. and they're not engaged, even when the subject is something of personal interest to them.

I refuse to treat others that way. I always avoid the TV when talking on the phone. Human beings deserve that respect, at a minimum.

[Jonathan50]

131. I have to disagree..

If you can *see* someone, that means that you are looking at them.

If you are looking at them, you are not looking at the road.

As I already pointed out in this thread, I know a lot of people who cannot hold a conversation while driving without continuously looking at the passenger.

IMO, that is more dangerous than talking on a cell phone.

[Common Sense Party]

74. I drive and talk all the time. I've never been close to being

in an accident.

Most of the time I'm on the wide open Interstate, but with extra caution and a headset, I'm careful and safe in town as well.

[ComerPerro]

77. exactly

[Az]

84. Ah, so you have a special brain?

One that operates differently than everyone else's? Do not confuse circumstance with safety. The simple fact is that if you are talking on a cell phone your ability to react is slower than if you are not. Thats what brains do. The fact that you have not been in a circumstance that the delay in your reactions would have resulted in an accident is entirely a different matter. Your ability to perceive your surroundings is impaired. Thats how the brain works. Normal brains anyway.

[Kingshakabobo]

104. Question: How long do you have to drive with a cell phone accident free .....

........before you are deemed "safe"? I've had one since 1988. I had one back when they were called 'car phones.' No accidents yet. Am I really lucky? Or am I smart enough or skilled enough to avoid an accident?

To be fair, the pole should have been worded something along the lines: "are you following 100% ideal safety procedures when driving while talking on the phone"? To that I would answer no. Just like I would answer no if I was changing the CD player/radio, arguing with the SO, eating or drinking coffee.


"The simple fact is that if you are talking on a cell phone your ability to react is slower than if you are not"

The same can be said about a myriad of activities undertaken while driving. I happen to think smoking should be outlawed while driving............well not really but I do have a friend who wrecked his car after dropping a lit cigarette on his crotch. I would venture to guess more accidents have been caused due to eating while driving (just a guess since its been around much longer).

[Az]

121. See the studies I posted above

Its very simple. Talking on a cell phone seriously takes away from your ability to concentrate on driving. It doesn't matter than you have avoided a collision till now. There is no such thing as becoming safe at driving while talking on a cell phone. There is only the fact that you haven't hit anything yet. You are impaired while talking on a cell phone. Thats just a limit of the human brain. Its nothing to do with being a good driver or a special person. The brain can only do so much and conversing on a cell phone is something that takes up more attention than most people think it does.

[TahitiNut]

I've avoided SEVERAL accidents due to other drivers running lights and stop signs.

I make a habit of watching the other vehicles and assuming NOTHING as far as I can. In every instance, I saw that the vehicle wasn't slowing and took the extra second to be safe - a second unavailable to someone distracted by a cell phone. Despite no accidents in decades of driving, I'll NEVER regard myself as a 'good driver' and put my life on the line for my ego. That'd be beyond stupid.

When I have passengers, I usually make sure they know that conversation isn't always welcome - and suggest they sit back, relax, meditate and make other good use of the time. I'm more than happy to engage in conversation when I can give the other person my full attention - and people DESERVE that attention when interacting ... if only so I understand what THEY say instead of some phantom straw man in my own mind.

It's been my experience that far too many people regard drive time as some kind of "waste" - and try to multitask. I've found that "be there and do that" is a decent kind of meditation - something I think more could benefit from. Meditations is often about being present - gathering one's full attention to that moment and that place. We invite neuroses by directing some part of our minds to other times (past or future) and other places. (The most common misdirection of attention is to where we're going and when we'll get there - a waste of time, imho.) Mental and emotional health is enhanced by practicing a "here and now" kind of meditation. Sadly, far too few invest the effort into knowing what that even means and discard it without even comprehending it.

[ComerPerro]

100. As have I've even run off the road to avoid a collision. But you can't dodge them all

this was an instance of someone coming down a street at 35-40 mph (can't see street, blocked by houses) and just completely pulling out at speed in traffic. Matter of timing. Almost missed it, airbag didn't even deploy I was slowed down so much. But the truck is fucked and she had no insurance...

For you to assume that I got in this accident because of my ego is completely disgusting and is a huge asshole move.

But I digress...

I do agree that a lot of people see driving as a waste. Sort of like, "well, I'll be driving, so I may as well __________". So it gets them in the habit of thinking of it as secondary, a background activity. The meditation idea is compelling, but some people probably can't be reached.

[Oeditpus Rex]

118. I don't think it's a 'waste,' but

modern cars are so comfortable, with cushy seats, heavy sound insulation, smoother rides, 694 cup holders and stereo systems we would've been proud to have in our homes 30 years ago — not to mention air bags all around us — that we can be lulled into a false sense of security.

It's rather like we're driving our living rooms, and I find an inherent danger in that.

[ellisonz]

106. But were they talking on the cellphone?

Damn dude, you've got quite a program.

[TahitiNut]

108. Take your personal attacks and shove 'em up your ass. Duuuuude.

:puke:

[ellisonz]

116. What? How was that a personal attack?

In fact I thought it was kinda a compliment. Sir, you are a responsible driver, but that doesn't give you the right to treat others like shit, and I'm not the only one in this thread who's challenging your judgment on this matter. I mean you did tell another poster in this thread "About as well as your effort to sexually molest young children at your local schools."

See post #27: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1105854#1106112

And then step away from the computer.

:crazy::silly:

[Seabiscuit]

221. Well, duh.... and pray tell, what's wrong with stating such an obvious fact?

Check out any of the many studies supporting that factual conclusion posted in this thread.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kingshakabobo]

15. Only when I'm drunk. n/t

[Elwood P Dowd]

20. Talking on a cell phone while driving drunk killed a St Louis Cardinal baseball player

last month. I'm sure you're joking.

[nosillies]

16. I'm a so-so driver when I'm on my phone

Now, when I'm trying to eat my burger while steering with my knees so I can turn around and beat my children in the back seat because I can't hear the person on the phone because they're too damn loud, well, that's a different story.

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Midlodemocrat]

18. I use the speaker phone if I get a call in the car.

Usually very quick from one of the kids, so I don't think it's been a problem.

I don't MAKE calls unless I can use the hands free do-hickey.

[dogday]

19. My husband calls me when he is driving and I tell

him I don't like talking to him on his cell while he is driving, he needs to pay attention to the road and in this city it is critical.. Our traffic sucks, and they are building more highways everywhere... He doesn't like it that I tell him that, but I would feel so guilty if he was in an accident and happened to be talking to me at the time....

[kestrel91316]

21. I am a frequent pedestrian. I have one thing to say:

virtually every crackpot who has nearly hit me (and there have been many) has been yakking on a phone.

Pull over, put the car in park, and THEN pull out the phone. I don't care how important you think it is to place or take that call. If the person calling has a legitimate emergency, let them call 911 instead of you. The ONLY justification for your using a phone while driving a moving vehicle is an IMMEDIATE LIFE-THREATENING EMERGENCY RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. Period.

[TahitiNut]

27. Funny thing: If you asked 'em, they'd probably say they were an above average driver.

In fact, approximately 80% of all drivers claim they're above average. Now, a fool might conclude that 30% of those are wrong. Someone with a bit more life experience and some modicum of intelligence would conclude that, at most, 25% were right and 55% were delusional.

[ellisonz]

41. So I've been driving for 6 years now, 2 without a cell phone.

No accidents, 1 ticket on I-5 in the middle of nowhere (short of Redding), I've got experience driving in Los Angeles, Portland, OR, and Honolulu, does that mean I'm not delusional in your playbook? Just asking, figured I might as well beat you to the punch.

[TahitiNut]

48. I hope you checked the organ donor box on your driver's license.

:shrug:

Six WHOLE years?? Wow! :rofl: :rofl:

[ellisonz]

52. Done.

Probation For Elderly Driver In SoCal Market Crash

(AP) LOS ANGELES An elderly motorist who killed 10 people and injured more than 70 when he plowed through a street market was sentenced to five years probation Monday by a judge who said the defendant was callous and deserved prison but was now so ill that confinement would be costly and likely fatal.

George Russell Weller, 89, was not in court to hear Superior Court Judge Michael Johnson denounce him for indifference to the plight of his victims and for a “stubborn and bullheaded refusal to accept responsibility and put this matter to rest for himself and everyone else.”

Weller was 86 when his Buick Le Sabre plowed through Santa Monica’s farmers market on July 16, 2003, after colliding with another car. Moving at freeway speed, he left a trail of victims age 7 months to 78 years.

The case ignited debate over licensing of elderly drivers, but on Oct. 20 the jury returned the most severe verdict—guilty on 10 counts of vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence, punishable by 18 years in prison.http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_324220857.html

I bet he shared your feelings...

[TahitiNut]

68. That's probably why highway fatalities are DOUBLE the rate for 20-something drivers.

Don't worry ... every older driver has "been there and done that." Such arrogance is 'normal.'

[ellisonz]

88. Natural selection.

You yourself acknowledged in #29: "In fact, approximately 80% of all drivers claim they're above average. Now, a fool might conclude that 30% of those are wrong. Someone with a bit more life experience and some modicum of intelligence would conclude that, at most, 25% were right and 55% were delusional."

Just saying...

[Samurai_Writer]

132. I was hit by a driver on a cell phone last week!

He was sitting at the exit of a parking lot, talking on his cell phone. I stopped, waited for a little while, and seeing he wasn't going anywhere, I walked in front of his car, crossing the parking lot exit on the sidewalk. JUST as I was almost clear of him, he starts to go, not even looking to see if the way was clear. Bam! I got hit and thrown to the ground. Thank god he didn't run over me. I got a sore hip and back, and some bruises, but basically am OK.

Drivers who talk on cell phones annoy the hell out of me. Even before this happened. I NEVER talk on my cell phone while driving. I pull over.

[TahitiNut]

158. I'm finding that being on foot in a parking lot these days is a life-threatening situation.

I've saved my ass at least a dozen times in the last year by being hyper-alert for phone-heads behind the wheel of their death machines - and taking cover instead of relying on stop signs or crosswalks. What's VERY clear is that absolutely NONE of them had a clue that they damned near hit a pedestrian - so they can live in the perpetual delusion that nothing's wrong ... until it is and they kill or maim someone.

[JANdad]

214. I usually enjoy your posts...

But damn...you seem to be a magnet for near death experiences...

At 38 and living in some MAJOR metro area (Detroit) being one of them...I have NEVER nearly been mowed down in a parking lot and that is while working retail...

[emilyg]

22. No way.

[BadgerKid]

25. Nope.

Too easy to get engrossed in the convo. But driving with my knees while eating is a different story.

[ellisonz]

28. Yes.

9 times out of 10 I'm having very brief conversations generally about something related to where I'm going. I use the speaker phone function and wrap it kinda sideway's around me head so I'm not actually "glued" to the phone. I generally try to keep it short, I don't like the phone really anyways. Some people like talking on the phone too much, or are bad drivers in general, and driving while texting is evil. It's not just cell phone users who cause accidents.

Pre-emptive :eyes:

[Az]

29. Its not even a case of it being a hand held

Holding a conversation without the other person being present engages the visual centers of the mind to create an internal representation of the person. It is this that causes the bulk of loss of control when driving. Even hands free cell calls are dangerous. It impedes your ability to see clearly. Its just the way the mind works. Visual context is a major part of our communication mindset. What we cannot see we imagine. And that takes up processing power in our actual visual stream.

[Ron Green]

101. I would even suggest that hands free use is MORE dangerous, because

it gives a false sense of safety. You've been absolutely correct in your posts in this thread that conversation with someone OUTSIDE the car is just about the most dangerous thing you can do while driving, and probably THE most dangerous thing regularly done on the roads.

[Alexander]

30. Nope. Anyone answering "yes" is kidding themselves.

That's why I either don't answer the phone, or I sometimes talk briefly when I'm stopped, at red lights for example. I then say "Gotta go, later" and hang up when the light turns green.

Knowingly impairing yourself through any means - chatting on the phone, getting drunk or driving after a week without sleep - is simply idiotic.

[William769]

31. Anyone who answerers "I can do it" is full of SHIT!

[karlrschneider]

49. I answered that way and I am not full of shit.

Nice broad brush you got there, bubba.

[William769]

51. To cover the people with ignorance it has to be.

[karlrschneider]

60. So I'm not necessarily full of shit, just ignorant?

My job requires me to fly the plane and talk on the radio...does your brush cover that as well? How is a cell phone different from that or from someone driving and using a 2-way radio which is routinely done by cops and millions of other people?

[William769]

73. Like I said ignorance.

How many planes are flying right beside you along with bicycles & pedestrians?

[karlrschneider]

83. Not many bikes or pedestrians but there can be a lot of planes.

They tend to gather at certain places we call airports. You might have heard the term.

[William769]

86. Thats what I thought. NT

:eyes:

[ellisonz]

96. Good point.

I've seen a number of cops who were horrible, aggressive drivers. Man, America is fucked.

[BootinUp]

144. You forgot race car drivers

;)

2 way radios are now the norm while at 200+ mph on the track.

The point here is that some people do have the skills to maintain complete control of a vehicle while having some conversations. The driver should always concentrate first on the situation on the road and the conversation must be secondary in terms of concentration. Also, the driver would ideally be very skilled at handling a vehicle in the event some quick reaction is called for.

[Az]

148. They aren't using them to chat

The radios are used to briefly convey important information. Due to the limited duration of the conversation (ooh a rhyme) it does not pose a significant impediment to their concentration. But for the time they are conversing their concentration is affected. Its just basic neurology. It cannot be avoided. It doesn't mean they are going to spin out of control the minute they say hi. It just means there is a decrease in their focus and ability to react during the time they are conversing on the radio/phone.

[BootinUp]

152. I don't disagree.

The driver should use the radio or phone sparingly and realize that it takes concentration away from other things. It doesn't change my point. As I said elsewhere I would not object to laws controlling cellphone use. But then not everyone puts the same effort into their driving.

[BootinUp]

54. Oh please.

I think we should gag drivers to prevent them yapping to passengers next. :sarcasm:

Joking aside, I do not object to a law against drivers using cell phones, but that is a different question than whether I or some other skilled driver can safely perform this task.

[jannyk]

37. No, I definately can't, and neither can anyone else! nt

[alkaline9]

38. I can do it with no problems. I assure you I'm NOT full of shit...

... I can do lots of things while driving. Fiddle with the radio, change CDs, talk to a passenger, take a sip from my soda, open/close windows, set cruise control, pay tolls.... why is talking on a cell phone any different?

I'm sure there are people who have never given driving the respect (ie: watching the road, anticipating, not driving drunk) it deserves that absolutely cannot drive while talking on the cell phone.... its just too bad their vehicles still come standard with distracting things like radios, cup holders, vanity mirrors, dvd players, gps devices, etc etc.

[ellisonz]

40. I know...really.

C'mon people get a frickin' grip.

[Az]

45. Sorry but it does impair your ability

Just because you have not hit anything yet doesn't mean you are not driving impaired while talking on a cell phone. Sorry but its just plain simple neurology. Your ability to process visual information is impaired when talking to someone you cannot see. We are a visual species and most of our communication takes place in the visual spectrum. It is because of this that when we talk to someone on the phone our brain creates an internal image of the person we are talking to to create our emotional sense of their attitudes and condition. This occurs in the same part of the brain that is busy trying to process the traffic conditions around you. While some multitasking can occur it impedes your ability to assess your conditions visually. Significantly so.

[alkaline9]

56. While I do not disagree with your points, I disagree about...

...the net effect of the distraction. I have no doubt that doing ANYTHING other than driving, while driving, will take a portion of your mind off the road. Could the same not be said for everyday thoughts? What about listening to music? Relative to talking on a cell phone, how much of a distraction is any other activity?

Follow my mental process for a moment. You're driving home from work. You begin to think about what you might have for dinner later. You consider the supermarkets you may pass on the way home. You consider, perhaps, what your significant other would like for dinner. Instead of wrapping your head around this the whole ride (no doubt being distracted), you make a quick call to your significant other and say, "what are you thinking about for dinner?" He/she replies, "I'm already making it, chicken again." You hang up, no longer distracted by the phone or the thoughts.

Now, if your only claim is that cell phones are distracting by the mental images they create, then in my situation which is more distracting? I would argue that neither is distracting enough to make a considerable impact on your driving thought process.

[Az]

65. Taking your mind off teh road is impairing your ability to drive

Yes, engaging your imagination while driving is dangerous. Day dreaming while driving would engage the same visual components of the mind as talking on the phone and are just as dangerous.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

57. I'd say the real issue is using your HAND to hold the damn thing against your ear.

I can't see "talking to someone you can't see" as a problem, else you couldn't chat with the people in the back seat.

[Az]

63. Back seat chatting can establish eye contact from time to time

But it still can create a problem. The mind wants visual confirmation of the state of the other conversant. It either gets it visually or it attempts to create it on it's own.

[Jonathan50]

134. "Back seat chatting can establish eye contact from time to time"

!!! Boggle !!!

You *look* at people in the back seat while driving?

Jeebus, no wonder you think driving and talking on the cell phone is dangerous.

[Az]

143. No, I think its dangerous because studies show it to be so

Its a simple matter of how the mind works.

And yes, making eye contact with people in the back seat is dangerous. People still do it. Whether by mirror or by turning their head.

[ellisonz]

59. So do you listen to the radio in the car? Have a soda? A bottle of water?

Just asking...

[Az]

61. Passive versus active activities

Listening to the radio is not as distracting as engaging in conversation. In order to converse you have to relate to the state of mind of the other person. This is simply how we communicate. And to do so the mind creates an internal image of the person. That is where the problem comes from. It may seem odd but talking in this way occupies the visual centers of the brain.

[Common Sense Party]

80. I talk to myself all the time while I drive.

Look, some can, some can't.

I can.

[Az]

89. Its not a question of whether some can or cannot do it

Its a question of whether your perceptions and ability to react are at their best or not. Circumstance plays a part in whether you hit anything as well as ability. Just because you have not hit anything does not mean you are not impeding your ability to drive as safely as you can. Some people drive drunk and never hit anyone. Doesn't mean they are not impaired while doing so.

[RaleighNCDUer]

Some people just don't get it -

I hope for their sakes they never have to get it the hard way.

[ellisonz]

94. You must listen to classical.

I actually find the opposite to be true, I'm terse and gruff, but I'm also an "active listener," so when the Stones or Hendrix or Dylan come on that's when I'm mentally engaged. The sad truth for many is that using the cellphone is actually a mindless activity. You may find this odd. Hell even NPR is more distracting than the cell phone I mean seriously, I'm not saying people should have long drawn out emotional conversations, but short purposeful calls are no danger and the histrionics in this thread are both sad and amusing. I'm not joking.

[Az]

97. Playing games with statistics

A short call does not change the fact that your ability to drive is being affected during the call. But its brevity does mean that the potential in which an issue may arise where your full ability is required is lower. This does not mean it is the same as driving without talking on a phone. Just that the length of time of exposure is shorter.

And yes, if you are engaging your attention more into the music than into your driving then you are increasing your risk. Talking on a cell phone is still worse though. It engages much more of the brain unless of course you are doing the full head banging thing while listening. If that is the case then really... maybe you should think about using mass transportation. ;)

[ellisonz]

105. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Actually, it's more about zoning out, getting locked in...because by your logic there should be no talk radio in the car...lot's of things affect our ability to drive. It's about knowing yourself. This thread is ridiculous. Oh, and I didn't cite an statistics so I don't know how I'm playing games with statistics. I think you read some article, watched some program and now you've taken it as the word of God :shrug:

I'm done here. :nopity:

[Az]

123. I have studied neurology

I can't put it any simpler. Its not a question of skill or being a conscientious driver. Its just a fact of the human brain. You talk to someone you cannot see and your mind will switch out of focusing on the traffic and become distracted. You can't stop it. You talk on a cell phone and you engage specific parts of the brain that are normally used for focusing on driving. You cannot switch back instantly. There is a delay and it decreases your ability to react. I can't put it any simpler. You are not a magic being that can do things beyond the capabilities of your brain. Sorry.

[karlrschneider]

42. I will answer and talk but no trying to dial...I stop for that.

Just talking is no more distracting (to a good driver) than listening to the radio.

[NightHawk63]

47. Definitely not on my bike :) (nt)

[BootinUp]

50. Yes.

I fancy myself a damn good driver. I know, such modesty.

Yes I can drive with one hand while talking. Besides some decent reflexes and co-ordination, what is also required is very good attention to the task. If the talking interferes with the attention to driving then stop talking.

However, I would not object to a law that outlawed cell phone usage while driving.

[MadHound]

66. Judging by both anecdotal and scientific evidence, nobody can.

And frankly I wish the damn things had never been invented. Not only have they introduced another, more acceptable hazard onto the roadway, but they are creating an entire generation of rude, disconnected people. Just one more reason that I'm hoping for the earth's polarities to switch and turn off another useless electronic device.

[EstimatedProphet]

67. I use an earbud

Therefore, yes and no.

[RB TexLa]

71. I talk, text, use my laptop while driving. Has never been a problem.

[MadHound]

111. Yet.

All it takes is one time, one lapse of attention, and somebody is dead. Why take that chance?

[Kerrytravelers]

174. You text and use your laptop?

[slackmaster]

72. Regardless of whether or not I can, I choose not to

It doesn't feel safe, and I see people driving erratically while talking on cell phones every day.

[gollygee]

76. This was on Mythbusters

Their testing indicated that it indeed impacts our ability to drive.

I don't talk on the phone while I drive. If someone calls, I find a parking lot and call them back.

[William769]

78. Kudos to you, thats what a normal person would do.

[TahitiNut]

147. You'd think that anyone whose life was so important that they just had to talk on their cell phone .

... would take such steps and not put it at needless risk. It seems exceedingly strange to me that anyone would act in such a self-contradictory fashion as to talk on a cell phone and drive.

[AtomicKitten]

81. some people can't drive as it is

why degrade their paucity of skills with a cell phone?

[BootinUp]

91. lol. so true. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

142. come watch people drive in SF

now that's scary

:scared:

[Solon]

93. Interesting results...

I would bet that if this poll was done with a replacement of cell phones with alcohol, about a third of people here would vote that they can drive with "just a few drinks".

Most people who drive cars, anywhere in the world, think they are excellent drivers, in actuality, about 90% of them are full of shit.

[TahitiNut]

103. Agreed.

It's displays of hubris like this that make me VERY cautious and attentive when driving. It's unbelievable how arrogant folks are about THEIR abiltiy to drive. I sure as hell don't think it's very smart to think one's self a 'good driver' and thereby increase the risk to one's life for the sake of that ego.

[Solon]

130. Me too, I learned from being a dumbass...

My first accident was only a few days after I got my driver's license, hit a parked car, the reason was stupid, I was running late to school, and tried to drive while the windshield was frosted. I turn right, and the sun hits the windshield and boom, total white out. So I tried to pull over, and while slowing down, the front end of my car went underneath an truck that was parked on the road. His bumper twisted underneath the truck bed, that stopped me quick. At the time is was somewhat funny, I was going maybe 5 mph, maybe less, and I walked up to the guys house, he wasn't that mad(it was an old truck), but then I asked to call my mom, she walked to the guy's house, I was less than a block from home. Like I said, I was stupid.

As far as other accidents, I had one other, this time driving on the highway, a car far ahead of me stopped, and I braked and hit a patch of black ice and slid right into this lady's car. No injuries, but she still called the cops, and wasn't even that mad at me. Neither car was that damaged, and were still drivable, we just pulled over, and the cop, when he showed up, let us sit in the back of the cop car while he filled out the report.

I learned to drive defensively, and since then, 10 years ago now, I haven't been in any accidents that were my fault, I did get rear ended a couple of times, the last time ended up injuring me, and still affects me still.

[raccoon]

200. Well said! I've read of studies of US and Swedish drivers, and most

of them think they're great drivers. Most??? Maybe in Lake Woebegon. :rofl:

[Seabiscuit]

95. Drive? Drive?? Some people can't even walk anywhere without a cell phone.

About 1 out of 3 DU'ers think they can drive using a hand-held cell phone.

And here I thought DU was a place for enlightened people.

If that's representative of the population as a whole in the USA, it's no wonder there are so many bad drivers out there - 1 in 3 think it's OK to drive while yap-yap-yapping on their friggin' cell phones while everyone else is dodging them to avoid an accident.

[Kerrytravelers]

175. Bwwwwaaaaahhhhh !!!!!!!! **snort** I love the subject line!

I am constantly finding myself trying to get around people in stores who can't talk on their phone and walk. They just amble and piddle in a circle and have no idea there are people trying to get around them

My absolute favorites are the people who get to the front of the line (a coffee shop, the bank, a department store) and proceed with their conversation while the clerk is waiting for their attention. Everyone in line has to wait because they're so busy yapping on their phone. They generally are clueless to what is happening around them.

[nini]

98. depends on where I am

busy traffic.. no


not busy or out in the sticks.. yes

[Buns_of_Fire]

109. Never! I need both hands free for my corn dog and co-cola!

But seriously, folks... No. I'll answer, if absolutely necessary. But for outgoing calls, it's just as easy for me to pull to the side of the road and take care of business there. (Fortunately, almost everywhere around where I live IS "the side of the road," so it makes it easier.)

But driving in somewhere like L.A. or Boston or Atlanta -- I don't even turn it on.

[BurtWorm]

110. I think I could putt safely.

:patriot:

[seabeyond]

113. my husband does it often and well. i do not. i do it seldom, too.

depends on the person.

who can drive with fighting kids in the back seat.

tough one for me, though i hope they dont pass a law stating no kids in back seat

[RC Quake]

119. I got a $350 speeding ticket because of a ditz on a cell phone.

I was following a woman on the freeway who was talking on the cell phone. She would go from 55 mph to 80 to 60 to 75. You get the picture. I got tired of having to brake and accelerate constantly, so as I went to pass her she started speeding up. I had to increase to 78 mph to get safely around her, which is when the chp clocked me.

Didn't fucking matter that once I got around her, I slowed back down. To this day, when someone near me is driving erratically, I know immediately they are on a cell phone. Bluetooth or actual phone...it doesn't matter. They simply can't drive. Unfortunately, I get a touch of the road rage every time I see it.

It's not just in the car either. The next time someone is so engrossed on their cell phone to get their ass out of the way at the grocery store, they will get a sample of my road rage in the canned vegetable aisle. :mad:

[karlrschneider]

126. a two lane freeway? In California?

Uh huh

[RC Quake]

127. When did I say it was 2 lanes?

It was 4 lanes and jam packed going 70 mph. It took miles for me to get an opening to get around her. What's your problem?

[karlrschneider]

128. I just had my bullshit detector calibrated. It's working very well.

...

[RC Quake]

129. That's a good one!

:rofl: :eyes:

[Evoman]

163. Obviously not.

Are you talking on your cell phone right now? It may be interfering with your bullshit detector like it does with your driving. Might want to get it checked...just don't do it while your driving.

[alittlelark]

139. I drive in the CA Bay Area ...If the freeway was jam-packed

and going more or less 70 mph she would be unable to vary from 55 to 80 mph. As soon as she slowed down cars would swerve in front of her, and as soon as she sped up, they would swerve in behind her.

That's how we drive out here.

You would also have a problem speeding in that jam-packed traffic (the way you say you got your ticket).

[Kerrytravelers]

178. In Los Angeles traffic, the speeds vary like crazy! I've gotten to where I just hate driving.

I try and schedule my driving to non-commute hours and in directions opposing traffic for this very reason.

[TahitiNut]

145. At one time I'd try to pass such a driver, too. Now, when I find myself confronted by such idiocy ..

... I take the very next rest area or off-ramp and take a breather. I stop, stretch my legs, relax, breathe ... and continue on my trip with a much more positive outlook. Life's too short to race such idiots to its end. There's always a better way to enjoy life.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

133. The Talking/Driving Part Is Way Easy For Me.

It's the dialing part that's the bitch. That's why if I ever need to, I generally will dial only at a complete stop.

[Jonathan50]

135. I dont' have a cell phone.. Too many people know how to reach me already :)

But my wife has one and it has voice dialing that works very well.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

136. I Have Mine Off All Of The Time Unless I'm Calling My Wife.

Generally, that's all I use it for.

[kath]

138. I spent too many years wearing a beeper - now I LIKE being in a situation where people can't bug me!

I have absolutely NO desire to talk on the phone while I'm out shopping, or in a restaurant, or driving...

For family situations, espec. when the family is scattered around at softball tournaments, swim meets, etc, hubby and I share one phone (pay-as-you-go plan) and older teenaged daughter has another. Very few other people have hub-and-mine's number. I get annoyed that hubby and daughter tend to waste minutes calling me for stupid bullshit things, rather than for the *important* calls it was purchased for. Seems for most people, once they have a mobile phone they get addicted to the concept of being able to be in constant contact with others, even for stupid inconsequential crap. ACK!

[Jonathan50]

166. "Even for stupid, inconsequential crap"

I would say, practically always for stupid, inconsequential crap.

At least that's the sort of cell phone conversations I overhear all the time.

[blues90]

140. What EVER happened to common sense ?

Some may liken it to talking to passengers in the car and once the number is dialed at a stop and as long as you have both hands on the wheel then maybe it's the same , maybe .

I dial speed_ dial at stops only and use a headset but only when there is no place to pull over and the call is really necessary .

There is no way in hell I would dial while driving of hold the phone with one hand . Now I hear people are text messaging , that's our right insane .

I mostly have the headset in my ear and if I get a call I keep my eyes on the road and open the flip by feel but only if I know it is needed other wise I call back when I'm stopped .

I don;t trust distraction and even wait to stop to change a radio station , things on the road happen in a split second even when you are looking and fully aware .

[Skittles]

146. you arrogant assholes who think you can

please, please just STOP IT

[Pavulon]

149. Guess reading my email on a palm

while trying to figure out why the bluetooth will not link up is bad?

kidding.

[BootinUp]

153. I might be

an arrogant asshole, but I would still sign a petition to control cellphone use while driving. Take that! :)

[Skittles]

155. you'll think differently when one of your friends is killed

because someone thought their f***ing cell phone call was more important than his life

[BootinUp]

159. I guess the point was completely missed

I agree that cell phone usage affects driving, I disagree that no one can handle it safely.

See I don't want myself or anyone I know to get hit by someone driving while on cell phone. So in essence I am on your side. BTW I don't use a cellphone, I carry a two way radio to get emergency calls from work only.

[Skittles]

179. some people claim they can drive fine with a few drinks

I disagree - people just should not drive drunk or while using a g.d phone - it is INSANE

[BootinUp]

181. point taken

I don't want to argue anymore, I'm not really an arrogant asshole, but there is some truth to some of the arguments I have made. We can all be afraid out on the road of the other guy or we can concentrate on what it takes to be ready for him.

[H2O Man]

150. I am

dealing with issues related to a fellow who, while chatting on his cell phone, ran two stop signs and a red light and hit me at 55 mph. I will deal with these issues every day, for the rest of my life.

[Az]

151. So ....um... I take it you have a strong position on this issue?

:hug:

[H2O Man]

157. Yep.

Next week will mark six years since the accident.

[TahitiNut]

154. You have my sympathy for that, sir.

It's almost beyond a doubt that the fellow who did that shared an identical perspective with the I'm-too-good-a-driver-to-be-concerned cabal we see in this thread - the dangerously arrogant 35%.

[H2O Man]

162. The guy

had previously been friends with my brother-in-law. Not close friends, but friends. Since the accident, he pretends he doesn't know my brother-in-law when he sees him.

Automobiles are big things, and when they are moving fast, it doesn't take a lot to cause a driver to lose control. Talking on a cell phone increases the chances that a person will lose control. And that loss of control can change people's lives, fast.

[TahitiNut]

170. The hardest things we have to face as humans is the dire consequences of our own arrogance.

After all ... we didn't INTEND to hurt anyone, right? (As though 'intent' is the only measure.) I personally doubt a person has actually become an adult until they grow out of such arrogance. Smirk is one fine example of that, imho.

[BootinUp]

173. "A man's got to know his limitations." - Harry Callahan n/t

[Kingshakabobo]

185. Two stop signs and a red light ???

I think there had to be a little more going on than a cell phone? No?.........lunatic?

[H2O Man]

186. Yes.

Two stop signs and a red light. Returning to work after lunch, talking on a cell phone. Distracted while driving the same route he traveled for many years.

[ReadTomPaine]

156. If a minor distraction turns you from a safe driver into a deadly threat..

Then take a pair of scissor to that license, clip it in two and stay on the bus.

I've driven over 35,000 miles a year for decades, I regularly speed over 100 mph and I often talk on my cellphone while I drive via my headset. I've never been in an accident & never caused one and that includes dozens of autocross events and street races. Not a chip of paint or single wrinkle on any car I've ever owned or raced.

The bitter truth is that driving is a SKILL. Some are gifted, most aren't. If you aren't, then know your limitations and stay out of the way, off the phone or off the road.

If someone is swerving or otherwise unable to drive and speak simultaneously, there are plenty of existing laws on the books that will handle the situation nicely. I think this is just an outgrowth of the anti-cellphone fundamentalist faction.

Flame away.

[TahitiNut]

164. Homo vehiculus?

The automotively evolved? :eyes:

[Az]

165. The bitter truth is you are a human

An no matter how good a driver you are when you are not talking on a cell phone you are a worse drive when you are. Thats just how humans work.

[Jonathan50]

177. You appear to be in favor of banning *anything* which is detrimental to driving ability

I would be in favor of that.

No passengers, no radio, no food, no drinks, no drugs of any sort which could possibly impair one's ability to drive, no dirty windshields, no armor all on the steering wheel.

Give me a little while and I'll come up with a more comprehensive list of things which should be banned while driving.

I still think that kids fighting in the back seat is the most distracting thing while driving.

[Az]

183. Um, when did I say anthing about banning?

I have only stated that talking on a cell phone impacts one's concentration while driving in a significant manner.

[Jonathan50]

184. I said "appear"..

I generally agree with you on virtually everything you post, my own ethics and worldview are quite similar to your own.

That being said, obviously any single thing that distracts one from the task at hand is detrimental to driving ability.

The point I am trying to make, albeit not very well, is that people vary widely in driving skill to start with. I know people who absolutely terrify me when I get in the car as a passenger with them. Then there are people with whom I can relax and enjoy the ride.

What we really need in this country is far stricter licensing requirements. The potential licensee should be able to demonstrate their skill on a skidpad just for starters. If you can't control an automobile under extreme conditions, then you can't really control an automobile at all.

Driver training should be put back into the schools and made mandatory before one can first get a license. These days it's quite possible to simulate the driving experience on a regular PC with the right software, such simulation training, along with other classroom training and on the road training, should be mandatory in high school and should be a year long regular class.

Driving is by far the most dangerous activity most people engage in, and the casual way in which training for this activity is treated is a national disgrace.

[wuushew]

167. (A) Your skill will eventually decline from aging

and (B) Street racing is dangerous and wastes gasoline

[FreeStateDemocrat]

160. I have my life endangered by cell phone users running stop signs, cutting me off by

illegal lane changes and they don't even know that I braked to prevent them from colliding with me. Some people may be able to safely talk on the phone and still pay attention to their driving but far too many can't, so to make the highways safe for us all, it should be banned immediately.

[Evoman]

161. EVERY SINGLE TIME I'VE ALMOST BEEN KILLED, THE PERSON HAS HAD A FUCKING CELL PHONE.

Everytime. I am a pedestrian, and I have had to literally jump out of the way of plenty of fucktards who talked on their cell phones while driving.

Seeing as how those shitheads didn't EVEN SEE ME, I have no doubt that, like many of the people here, those people think they drive perfectly. They are different. Unlike others, THEY have control. They in fact DO NOT HAVE HUMAN brains.

Bullshit.

BULLSHIT.

Every single one of you cell phone talking drivers.

You are not somehow superior to the people who have, through scientific studies, been DEMONSTRATED to have impaired driving while talking on the cell phone. That you actually think you are different is absolutely delusional.

[malaise]

168. I never use a hand cell in my car

Hubby stopped using it because of my nagging. No headset, no calls.

[XOKCowboy]

180. It's not the hands it's the mind....

Driving is a dangerous activity. In order to do it safely you have to know what is on all four sides of your vehicle at all times while simultaneously scanning FAR ahead of your vehicle to anticipate dangerous situations. That's a lot for the brain to process.

Now add trying to argue with your boyfriend, close a deal, make reservations at a hotel/restaurant, etc. even with a headset phone. It's these distractions that make people (who ALL consider them to be great drivers) make crucial mistakes that cost lives.

I drive A LOT for my job. I can't count the times that I've seen cellphone-absorbed drivers do things that have resulted in crashes. IMHO talking on a cellphone (handset or headset) costs more lives than drunk driving.

Me personally? If I get a call while driving, I won't answer the phone unless I can pull over. That's what voice mail is for.

[Telly Savalas]

182. Can I vote yes 1.4 million times on behalf of the 98% of the Kansas City metro area

that thinks they can drive while jabbing away.

[cynatnite]

192. Speaker phone is my friend n/t

[Seabiscuit]

194. And everyone else's enemy. It doesn't solve the real problem, which is

the inherent distraction of talking to someone over any phone system while driving - it places your mind far away from the vehicle, into the space of the person you're talking to, and no matter whether your eyes are on the road or not, your mind is not focused on all the things it needs to do to drive safely.

[Seabiscuit]

193. The DUI statutes should be amended to include driving under the influence of cellphone-itis.

Cell phone use while driving is as dangerous or more dangerous as driving drunk, and should carry heavy criminal penalties. Take their money, their freedom, and their cars away. I'm truly sick of those mindless, selfish assholes yap-yap-yapping on their toys while constantly changing speeds and weaving all over the road and running stop signs and red lights.

[Kingshakabobo]

195. Got any stats, links, or facts to back up that ridiculous assertion? n/t

[Az]

198. Here ya go

Knock yourself out.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061211124129.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/03/030327074949.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/01/030129080944.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/06/020611071201.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/07/010727094311.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051209113320.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041115002339.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060420233031.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060310134029.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060405234657.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070118161628.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/08/050826073950.htm

[Kingshakabobo]

203. Um, I was kinda hoping for some data showing cell phones killing/injuring as many people as....

....drunk driving.

You know, data supporting the ridiculous idea that cell phone users should be imprisoned and have their cars impounded by the state.

[kath]

209. well, duh, if cell-phone-talkers are every bit as impaired as drunk drivers

(on average), or even close, then it should be every bit as illegal.

[Seabiscuit]

211. If that's what you want, then you've changed the subject entirely.

My post which elicited your rude response said absolutely nothing about data about injury and death. It merely said driving while using a cell phone was as dangerous as if not more dangerous than drunk driving. There have been plenty of studies posted all over DU during the past year which support that claim. If you're truly interested in finding such data, and not merely determined to be an asshole, look it up yourself.

And people convicted of drunk driving do not have to be involved in an accident, or cause any injury or death, to suffer the criminal penalties which are a consequence of their reckless behavior. Speeding can also be the basis of a reckless driving conviction, also incurring criminal penalties.

As numerous studies have shown that cell phone use impairs one's driving ability much as alcohol does, it shouldn't take an accident to criminalize that behavior. And don't hold your breath too long - there will soon be plenty of studies documenting accidents caused by cell phone use as well as documenting injuries and deaths caused by selfish moronic drivers yapping on their hand-held toys while creating a menace on the roads.

Arguing against criminal penalties for cell-phone use while driving will get you about as far with me as arguing in favor of Bush's warrantless wiretapping.

[Kingshakabobo]

213. In other words.....you ain't got shit to back up your ridiculous opinion that........

....cellphone users should be imprisoned.



How do you feel about people changing their CD players in their cars? What do they deserve? 25 to life?

Sorry asking for facts, links and stats is "rude" in your world. I wouldn't have asked you for a link if I knew it would knot up your panties and send you in to hysterics.

[Seabiscuit]

220. In other words, you're not interested in the facts.

(or you could have started your research by simply checking some of the posts in this thread, e.g. #217).

You're just another flamer wasting everyone's time.

Buh-bye.

[Seabiscuit]

210. Denial's a bitch, ain't it?

You couldn't have been more wrong, or more obtuse, could you?

[panader0]

196. It's when I do the crossword puzzle that driving gets difficult

[stirlingsliver]

202. Crosswords are EASY.....

Crosswords are really easy to do while driving.

It's SuDoKu that is difficult to do while driving.

And don't get me started about doing SuDoKu while talking on my cell phone while drinking coffee and giving myself a manicure!

[michreject]

197. As of 11:32 Am, 32% says they can do it

I ride a motorcycle. Let me tell you that 32% are wrong. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Wcross]

205. People NOT talking on cell phones are bad enough!

I don't know how many stories I have heard about people killing motorcyclists because they say they didn't "see" them. Throw in a cell phone conversation and it makes an already bad situation worse.

[kath]

208. Oh, man, that's scary than shit to contemplate - a driver on a cell phone being anywhere in the

vicinity of a motorcyclist. :scared: :scared: :scared:

[michreject]

219. I would bet that they didn't look

knowing they could use that excuse and get away with it.

[Az]

199. A collection of links to studies showing that cell phones impair driving abilities

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061211124129.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/03/030327074949.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/01/030129080944.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/06/020611071201.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/07/010727094311.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051209113320.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041115002339.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060420233031.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060310134029.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060405234657.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070118161628.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/08/050826073950.htm

[kath]

207. Hey, I don't need no steenkin' science! I know in my GUT that I can drive safely

while talking on the phone! Science is eeeeeeevul.

[Wcross]

204. About as well as I could drunk. All that voted yes are in denial.

I got news for you, you may not have had an accident yet but you are not driving safely. I see you every day, changing lanes without signaling. Not monitoring your speed while you yack away. Oblivious of other vehicles around you.
You can claim your abilities are better than average but you are only fooling yourself. I just hope you don't kill an innocent person over that very important yack session.

[LanternWaste]

206. When I first became one of the Pod Peopl

When I first became one of the Pod People (when I bought my fist cell phone), I made a call as I got into my truck and pulled out into the street. Realized at that very moment that I was not meant to have a meaningless discussion while driving.

I've told friends, family and co-workers that I WILL NOT answer my phone if I'm driving. Maybe a lot of other people can justify trading a little bit of convenience for a bit more risk on the road, but not me.

[LWolf]

215. I can.

Of course, I'm not much of a talker. I don't use a cell phone to "chat." I only use it to communicate some brief information. I don't answer it when it rings while I'm driving, I drop it and lose the call when necessary, and my brain is never any more engaged than it is listening to the radio. Tell the person at the other end what I need them to, say goodbye, all done. That's it.

I wouldn't even do that driving in traffic. Much of my driving is rural.

I can, because I respect my limits.


Err...shhhh.......

There is a ridge I drive behind every morning on the way to work that is in a "dead" spot. I'll lose the call every time there. So I'm in the habit of making my daily call to my overly-verbose mom 5 minutes before the ridge. I start trying to say goodbye about a minute before the ridge, warning her that I'm losing signal. She steamrolls right over that and keeps talking until the phone goes dead. I've done my duty.

I have decades of practice not listening, giving a few "wow," "uh huh," "poor you," etc. during the monologue while doing something completely different and waiting for her to wind down. I love her, but I have my limits when it comes to passive listening.

[shadowknows69]

216. You Can't

Stop it.

[Az]

217. Mythbusters confirms talking on the cell is as dangerous as driving drunk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(season_2)#Cell_Phones_vs._Drunk_Driving

Season 2 Episode 33

----------------
Adam and Kari take on a contemporary issue in driving, one that has given conflicting scientific data. To do so, Adam and Kari perform a general-purpose road safety test three times (once while slightly under the legal alcohol limit, once while talking to Jamie on a cell phone, and once without either) and compare the three results.


Driving while talking on a cell phone is just as dangerous as driving while intoxicated.

Confirmed

Both Adam and Kari failed a general-purpose road safety test while talking on a cell phone and while driving after drinking alcoholic beverages (though with just below .08 BAC, not legally drunk), with cell phone driving failing by a wider margin. However, Adam commented that one can easily put away a cell phone if necessary, but not simply become sober as needed.
----------------

According to this test talking on the cell phone actually impairs your ability to drive worse than being intoxicated (below legally drunk). Yes you can put the phone away so its not the same. But at the moment of crisis the phone is worse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

222. Plenty of studies to prove that driving while drunk is just

as ahem "safe"

And anecdotally I saw plenty of crashes due to this

[Quixote1818]

223. I have seen plenty of friends miss turns because they were caught up in regular conversation

I could never understand what made talking on the phone any different than talking to someone already in the car???????

:shrug:

So, should we outlaw regular conversation in cars now? If you are really into a conversation, it doesn't matter if you are talking on the phone or to a friend in person because you are going to be less focused on driving both ways. People are just as distracted in both instances and both are just as dangerous.

Now driving a stick shift and talking on a hand held cell phone is a whole other ball game.

[Quixote1818]

224. Who here has been in a car with a teenager or collage student who text messages while driving?

I think talking on a cell phone and driving is easy. It's no different from talking to the person next to you accept you tend to look at the road more when talking on a cell phone as opposed to looking over at the person next to you. However, I was in California over Thanks Giving visiting my Uncle. His daughter (who just started collage) was driving my aunt and I to eat and I look over and she is typing away on her cell phone looking up then looking down, then looking up then looking down. This went on for about 30 seconds and I said "Are you driving or text messaging?" Then her Mom realized what she was doing too and we both got on her. She immediately lowered the phone in embarrassment.

:blush:

That was as dangerous as reading a magazine and driving. The scary thing is that one hell of a lot of young kids are in the habit. :scared:

[Hippo_Tron]

225. Dialing or talking?

Dialing isn't particularly safe. As far as talking goes, I try to avoid it on the interstate or at places with complicated intersections. I don't believe that it's as unsafe as drunk driving as some would claim.

[entanglement]

227. Insurers will start penalizing drivers with cell phones once more accident data becomes available

n/t

[barb162]

230. There are too many times I have avoided accidents because some

dumbass is gabbing on their cell and not paying attention to driving. One idiot in front of me on his cell crashed into a toll booth. Talk about distraction!