Jammed U.S. cities eye 'pay to drive'

[babylonsister]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0614/p03s03-ussc.html

Jammed cities eye 'pay to drive'
New York and other major US cities are considering fees for those driving during rush hour.
By Ron Scherer | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

Page 1 of 2

New York - Are you stuck on the freeway and willing to pay almost anything to get moving again?

Some cities may give you the opportunity to reach into your wallet as part of an idea now reaching American shores.

The concept is simple: to cut down on bumper-to-bumper traffic and improve air quality, charge a fee to use the roads – or even enter the city – during rush hour.

Known as congestion pricing, the concept is favored by the US Department of Transportation, which is planning to help fund some of these efforts this summer. Nine cities – including such car-oriented cities as San Diego, Miami, and Dallas – are proposing a charge to use roads during rush hour. New York's is the most wide-sweeping – tacking on an $8 fee for cars and $21 for trucks to enter much of Manhattan.

Opponents call the proposal a regressive tax that hurts working people. And they worry about small businesses that count on commuters losing business.

Proponents of the system say it is a way to get more riders on mass-transit systems or at least in van or car pools. The model is London, which claims that such fees are now allowing traffic to flow more smoothly.

more...

[liberal N proud]

1. High gas prices didn't force you take that non existent train or ride your bike?

We will add a little more incentive on top of the Gas prices and the Gas taxes we will add a tax to use the road each time you pass over it.
Maybe that will make you think before get behind the wheel. HA!


:sarcasm:

[Blaze Diem]

2. Who is the beneficiary of this fee? How will this fee be a

benefit in the future? Roads? Fix the potholes problem? Raises for those in office? Bonuses? Will the collection and implementation of its use be "outsourced?"

Good idea for congestion and moving people to use mass transit. But will every frickin penny of this be then used to improve the mass transit system?
Dallas metro area, for example, has a really limited and crappy mass transit system. Some people MUST drive because the transit system does not estend into many areas..I
believe they do their best with the rapid growth of this city , but I would hope that the fee is then used to satisfy the mass transit issues.
But I would bet some other necessary interest already sees this as something else.

Sorry for the skeptisism but...

[Salviati]

3. I would have a lot less problem with this

As long as all the revenue from projects like this went into developing top notch public transportation systems in the cities that do this. Give me a great light rail system or subway and I'd be happy to use it. Give me a bus system when I don't have to transfer three times to go anyplace that isn't downtown and I'll ride it a lot more often.

[Skinner]

4. This is a fascinating idea.

But I read the entire article, and I couldn't figure out for certain how they propose to collect this fee. Surely they couldn't put up toll booths all over an entire city. I guess they simply propose to charge the fee if you enter the city during rush hour, but if you're already there you don't have to pay (?). Anyone know?

[nickine9]

5. In london they use cameras and image processing

on all entrances to the city. and have mobile units as well. they take pictures of each vehicle as it enters and use image recognition to identify the registration number which is then checked against the payment database and if there isnt a record of payment for that day it automatically issues the owner a penalty notice.

I live in london and think it is a good idea however we do have decent mass transit and walking is not regarded as a symptom of lunacy.

BUT beware of feature creep, The police and other bodies have access to the system and for some reason that no-one seems to be able to explain the system is kept running outside the charging periods.

Also there is a major dispute between our Mayor and the American Embassy because, I think, the Americans say the charge is a tax which diplomats do not have to pay whereas the mayor says it is a toll which should be paid.

[Elspeth]

9. Once you let them monitor you, they can monitor anything

"BUT beware of feature creep, The police and other bodies have access to the system and for some reason that no-one seems to be able to explain the system is kept running outside the charging periods."

It's about controlling movement in general. I think the same goal is behind gutting the air traffic control system and all the extreme security in airports since 9/11. It's about population control and preventing travel, especially far off travel. Part of dumbing people down.

[The2ndWheel]

15. I don't think it's about preventing it

It's about the information. The more you travel, especially large distances requiring help(cars, planes, etc), the more information can be gathered. I agree that it's about control, but they need the numbers. If anything it's about making people dependent. You have to use a car, have to use a plane, etc, etc, or else you won't be able to get the job, so your children won't eat, if you're lucky to even find a mate without added means of transport in a society based on traveling longer distances.

Now on the other hand, you have London, a place where you don't need a car, and they're the most watched society in the West, if not the world. So it's mostly about acquiring information, which requires activity of some kind.

[babylonsister]

6. Would you believe satellite technology?

This is an old article, but that's what the British thinking was in 2005.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/05/news/travel6.php



Britain is considering 'pay-as-you-drive' plan
Reuters, Agence France-Presse, Bloomberg News, The Associated Press

MONDAY, JUNE 6, 2005
LONDON The British government is considering scrapping the fuel tax and replacing it with a new road charge based on the distance and time that motorists travel.

The transport secretary, Alistair Darling, said the plan, which would use new satellite technology to monitor vehicles to create a "pay-as-you-drive" charge, was necessary to avoid gridlock on some of the country's busiest roads.

"Over the next 20 to 30 years we know we will face formidable problems," Darling told Sky News. "We can't really spend that much more time dancing round the problem." (Reuters)

[krispos42]

10. In New York they'd probably just increase the tolls

I mean, hell, it already costs like six bucks each way to get into or out of NYC. :eyes:

[bleedingheart]

16. I bet it would work like EZPass does here in PA

On the turnpike your car can have a sensor in the window and as you pass under or around the detection system ...it deducts the toll from your account

If you don't have a sensor...you must go through booths to pick up a card or pay there.

[EnviroBat]

7. Yeah, right... And what if it just so happens that you live in a city

so overwrought with urban sprawl that the entire concept of mass transit is a mediocre joke on it's best day? Hmmm? We can't get a mass transit system here to save our asses, and now they want to extort even more from us. Good Tap-Dancing Jesus, where's my fucking passport...

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. Is it mainly the western cities that have this trouble?

[EnviroBat]

17. Nope, the transportation system is abysmal right here in central Ohio.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Too bad the Repubs killed off our rail system. My grandfather had told my dad of how

you could go from train to trolley to train clear across this country once upon a time.

[EnviroBat]

19. Yep, that's the problem we are facing here. When I was in England.

It was really easy to get around without a car. The busses and trains, it was a completely different mentality over there. We have the infrastructure in place for a light rail system here, and it could work wonders for our traffic congestion. But no, can't be done... Makes too much sense.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. Yep. Anything that makes sense will be scrapped. :^(

[Elspeth]

8. San Diego has such limited public transportation!

Everyone not within the trolley system drives. We have to.

This is just a pickpocket law unless the DOT backs it up with some new public transport infrastructure.

[dogday]

11. Plan To Eliminate Tollbooths Could Ease City-Bound Traffic

Cameras could soon replace tollbooths on the bridges and tunnels connecting New York and New Jersey. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey yesterday announced plans to phase out cash payments at its six crossings between the two states in favor of bills sent by mail to the millions of drivers who enter Manhattan from New Jersey every day.

The plan, which is expected to reduce traffic bottlenecks on the highways leading into the city, would complement Mayor Bloomberg's proposal to charge drivers a fee to use the city's most crowded streets, Port officials said. The Port Authority would use the same camera technology to charge drivers that the city is planning to use if it implements congestion pricing.

A feasibility study for the cashless toll payments is expected to begin within weeks. Replacing the tollbooths would likely take at least five years.

The bi-state agency may also seek to implement "dynamic pricing," a system of varying Manhattan entrance fees depending on the level of congestion within the city, the executive director of the Port Authority, Anthony Shorris, announced yesterday at a breakfast hosted by the Association for a Better New York.

http://www.nysun.com/article/54601

[TahitiNut]

12. Civil Liberties for sale. Let's just make sure the poor can't do anything.

:shrug:

So much for that ol' free market stuff ... heaven forbid that we have ubiquitous mass transportation. The hoi polloi are getting in the way of the chauffeur-driven limousines so the fat cats want to make the working poor pay more.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Aren't they already doing this in L.A.

I could have sworn I saw a toll freeway running parallel to the regular freeway out near Pomona.

[MadHound]

20. Bad, bad idea

It will hit the working class people the hardest, taking money out of their pocket that is already being raided for high gas prices. This will also hurt businesses, especially small ones. And while Europe has the mass transit infrastructure to make this sort of proposition doable, most cities certainly don't.

Just one more reason that I'm happy I no longer live in an urban area.

[NeedleCast]

21. Another Great Example of Government "Circle Think"

Hey, we can put in more toll roads, that will force more people into mass transit or to carpool/vanpool.

But wont it also cause more bottlenecks on roads that are already choked with traffic?

Yes, but it will force more people into mass transit or to carpool/vanpool.

But wont it also cause more bottlenecks on roads that are already choked with traffic?

Yes, but it will...

[Robbien]

23. You realize this is privatizing the roads.

The contract for charging road usage will be assigned to a private company. A private company will gatekeep your rights to your taxpayer funded roads.