Should evolution be taught as fact rather than theory?

[cynatnite]

A scientist on a documentary expressed this opinion. I tend to agree. The evidence supporting Darwin's Theory has been piling up for decades at the very least. Just the other day I read an article about a prehistoric mammal discovered in China. It's a new species that directly connected dinosaurs with birds. They believed it had feathers and a beak even though they don't believe it could fly. Today I watched the BBC's documentary about Galapagos and to me that showed very simply how life evolves. A type of lizard dives down to the ocean floor to depths as low as 30 feet in order to feed off of red algae. It's their only source of food on that desolate island. No other lizard on the planet does this. They are finding ways to survive and in time I bet their physiology will change to further adapt to their environment.

I want to scream at the creationist freaks 'Look Around You!'.

I'm just a layperson in this area, but to me evolution is a fact and not a theory. Darwin was right...well, except for the bush-like repukes who haven't evolved like the rest of the human race.

[BlooInBloo]

1. It should be taught as *all* science is taught. Call it whatever the hell you want.

[theHandpuppet]

47. Thank you.

Couldn't have said it better.

[ThomWV]

2. Yes

[PDJane]

3. Excuse me..........

You mean it isn't???

Unless things have changed since my son was in school, it is here. Of course, I'm across the northern border, which may be a difference, but still!

[cynatnite]

9. In my daughter's high school they barely discussed it...

We live in TN. I was surprised by this. When I was in school we studied it and it was no big deal then. No one blinked an eye.

[slackmaster]

4. Theory of course, but that must accompany the teaching of what the word "theory" means

In the scientific context.

It's not a guess, and it's not the same as a hypothesis. Creationists exploit public ignorance of what scientific theory really is; they mix apples and oranges claiming that any one theory carries as much weight as any other theory.

[wryter2000]

10. That's a bit hard for pre-high school

I'd simply say that it's generally referred to as a theory even though all reputable scientists regard it as proved or fact.

[RC]

27. Evolution is a Fact. A Proven Variable Fact.

How Evolution works is the theory part.

[Az]

37. Careful with the word proven

Its not really part of the scientific method. It is the math departments word. Proof is an absolute. Science doesn't do absolutes. It does evidence and testing the snot out of theories.

[mudesi]

5. Should gravity, or relativity?

Evolution is not some outlandish "theory" that scientists have just come up with. It is well established and has mountains of evidence supporting it.

At this point only changes in specific details of the theory will occur as new data comes in.

[Zomby Woof]

6. In the 'Cosmos' documentary

Carl Sagan asserted that evolution is fact. And he was right. He provided concrete examples of how this is so.

Natural selection, evolution, whatever one calls it, IS fact, unlike the 3,000 year old genocidal, quasi-mystical scribblings by bare-assed tent-dwelling Bronze Age nomads.

[Toots]

7. IMO Evolution is fact

But sometimes facts change as more evidence becomes known..

[Cleita]

8. I thought it was already considered proved.

I subscribe to three populist science magazines and it seems I have read that evolution is considered fact in most scientific circles.

[cynatnite]

12. My RW mother says it's evil and came from the devil...

seriously, she believes it. There are plenty of RW nutjobs who think it's a hoax and no different than the evil lie of global warming. I know some of them. :scared:

[Cleita]

13. That's too bad. I don't know how you fight ignorance like that.

It's one thing to be ignorant but willing to listen and learn and another thing to close your mind to the facts. You have my sympathy. My mother was not well educated but she was willing to listen to me when I gave her information about the things she didn't know about.

[Random_Australian]

18. I agree with that assessment.

[NC_Nurse]

11. We don't want to be as pretentious and blind as the Creationists....

I mean, they're operating on theories....aren't they? Or even hypotheses....

Where's their proof? Where's their evidence?

Uh, nowhere! That's where!

Just sayin'

[Random_Australian]

16. Did you just say there is no proof for evolution?

1) Are you bieng serious?

Do you realise what happens when you couple to observed "small change in genes per small change in time" with the observed (massive) age of the earth?

Do you realise how the fossils tell us precisely that?

What about your appendix? Nipples for men? Eyes that could be made a lot better in any system.... except evolution. You know, that stuff?

[NC_Nurse]

17. It was a joke...

:shrug:

Ya know...based on fundies wanting us to teach "Intelligent Design" which is just a cover for Creationism.
They want to act like it's just as relevant as evolution when it's based on a religious text....

I have no doubts about evolution personally.

[Random_Australian]

20. Ok, that's cool.

You're a little too good at satire, my friend. :)

[cynatnite]

19. nevermind n/t

[Random_Australian]

14. No, we need to change the way we teach the way "theory".

Because the way science uses it is a LOT different to the colloquial use; we should teach it as a theory in the scientific sense (that is, tried & tested and a pretty much true), and teach it as a fact in the colloquial sense.

[moc]

26. Yes, exactly. Bravo.

[Coexist]

15. Yes. Because it IS. The mechanism by which things evolve is theory.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

"Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution."
Stephen J. Gould


"Let me try to make crystal clear what is established beyond reasonable doubt, and what needs further study, about evolution. Evolution as a process that has always gone on in the history of the earth can be doubted only by those who are ignorant of the evidence or are resistant to evidence, owing to emotional blocks or to plain bigotry. By contrast, the mechanisms that bring evolution about certainly need study and clarification. There are no alternatives to evolution as history that can withstand critical examination. Yet we are constantly learning new and important facts about evolutionary mechanisms."
- Theodosius Dobzhansky

"It is time for students of the evolutionary process, especially those who have been misquoted and used by the creationists, to state clearly that evolution is a fact, not theory, and that what is at issue within biology are questions of details of the process and the relative importance of different mechanisms of evolution. It is a fact that the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old. It is a fact that cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and that organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. It is a fact that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. It is a fact that major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now. It is a fact that all living forms come from previous living forms. Therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans. No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny these facts any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun.
The controversies about evolution lie in the realm of the relative importance of various forces in molding evolution."

- R. C. Lewontin

[Madspirit]

21. It IS fact...n/t

[Canuckistanian]

22. Jeez, I hate this question

It's FAR too late to deny evolution. IT HAPPENS. And there's EVIDENCE!

People have this misunderstanding of what a "theory" means in science.

Gravity is a theory. Nuclear physics is a theory. The Laws of Thermodynamics are theories.

Evolution IS FACT. Ask any microbiologist or geneticist. Mendel, Darwin, Wilson, Crick, Watson, JBS Haldane, Nelson-Reese, Suzuki. All of these people based their LIFE's WORK on evolution in one way or another.

Have hundreds of years of research meant NOTHING?

[kestrel91316]

33. As someone with a BS in Microbiology, I can say without the slightest

hesitation that evolution is a FACT. It happens on a very short time scale with microbes like pathogenic bacteria, and on an obviously much longer scale in higher animals and plants.

Genetic variation plus environmental selection pressures >>>>> evolution

When I was in Jr HS and HS (in UT and southern OH, no less) it was taught as fact. There wasn't the slightest debate. This was in the early 70s.

My, we have slid back into the abyss, haven't we? Eventually it will be the Dark Ages again, if the fundie whackjobs get their way.

[Canuckistanian]

36. And yet the fundies continue to benefit from evolution

Vaccines, genetic therapies, cancer research....

Yet you never hear a call for banning those.

[Balbus]

23. One word....

Giraffe.

Where in evolution does a ghastly, sickening creature like that fit in? What twisted, demented game is evolution playing on us?

[Arugula Latte]

30. Giraffes get the tippy top leaves on trees.

One more of the millions of examples of the wonders of evolution's creation... :)

[enki23]

32. surely they are evidence for a malevolent creator

god exists. let's find and kill him.

or something like that...

[Balbus]

49. Whoever or whatever is responsible,

they or it needs to be held accountable for those god-forsaken creatures.

[Swede]

24. Fossils are the devils handiwork.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOe7EuHclyo

[cynatnite]

25. Love that!

:rofl:

[ewoden]

28. Evolution is an observable fact.

One proposed non-random mechanism of evolution is embodied in the theory of evolution through natural selection. This theory is a mechanism proposed through careful observation of facts. It is testable, and it has withstood challenge within the scientific community.

[Arugula Latte]

29. It's a theory in the same way "The Earth is Round" is a theory.

I mean, how many of mountains of proof do they require before something is called Fact?

[Hamlette]

31. evolution is fact, survival of the fitest is theory (where man came from and why)

we have observed evolution (changes) and we assume it happens for reasons of survival but that is just a theory. Evolution was around before Darwin, Darwin's contribution was WHY it happens and that's the bigger part of why they don't like it.

In teaching theory there is a great example in...can't think of the name of the book (help me? about solving some old obscure equation/puzzle) of the difference between mathematical proof and scientific proof (why the latter is always "theory)

Imagine a checkerboard. Take a knife and cut the square in the upper left hand corner out and the square in the lower right hand corner off. Take a bag of dominos just big enough to cover two squares. Can you arrange the dominos in such a fashion to cover all the squares? The scientific method would try it. Over and over again until you are satisfied that it PROBABLY can't be done. You can say, using that method, that it probably can't be done but you don't KNOW it for sure.

For mathematical proof you look for an equation. Here it is that because the squares alternate between red and black each domino must cover one red square and one black square. There are 64 (if I remember right) squares on a checker board, 32 red and 32 black. The two corners you cut out are both black meaning by your formula (no red squares touch back squares so the domino must cover a red square and a black square) you cannot cover the board with dominos...you'll always have 2 red sqares left over.

Evolution is science. Not math. You can't find a forumla for proof. Only method.

[karlrschneider]

34. The theory is the discussion of HOW it works. Not 'if' it works.

I have no problem with calling it a theory if the term is properly explained as to how it relates to science. Many people think 'theory' is a synonym for "guess."

[Az]

35. Evolution is both theory and fact

Evolution happens. We can see it happen in many cases. It happens. It is a fact.

Our understanding of evolution is a theory. We do not understand all of it and our understanding of it is changing to this day. In science a theory is just our best understanding of what is going on. A theory is only as strong as the evidence and experiments supporting it. And as theories go it is probably one of our best evidenced theories around.

One of the things the creationists do is pounce on any new thing that causes science to reconsider the current thinking about evolution. They do not seem to understand that one of the things about science that makes it so useful is its ability to correct itself. If evidence comes along that refutes an existing theory science demands that we toss out the old theory and form a new one that must undergo scrutiny. But for every shift in understanding the creationists start jumping up and down proclaiming evolution dead.

I was engaged in a debate concerning this vary issue earlier today. For a long time now geneticists and biologists had considered the bulk of our DNA to be junk. That is most of our DNA does not seem to be involved in an active part of our biology. This Junk DNA was thought to be just tagging along.

New evidence however seems to be suggesting that this so called Junk DNA plays a vital roll in evolution. Acting as a storage facility that enables mutation to take a fast track. So we are finding that the Junk DNA may not be junk any more. Science has to take up the new evidence and incorporate it. But the creationists believe that every such shift heralds the end of evolution.

There was an attempt by the creationists a few years ago to gain attention for creationism as an actual theory (its not) by coming up with a list of 200 "scientists" that supported creationism. Typically the scientific community does not respond to such tactics. But in this case some within decided to do something to counter this propaganda. So they sent out a request for scientists just named Steve (in honor of recently deceased Zoologist Stephen J Gould) that support the theory of evolution to sign a petition to that effect. Their goal was just 200 scientists named Steve. To date they have collected over 700 names of Scientists just named Steve that support the theory of evolution.

Link to Project Steve http://www.ncseweb.org/article.asp?category=18

The list of scientists currently signed up as supporters of evolution named Steve: http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/3697_the_list_2_16_2003.asp

[Seabiscuit]

38. Yes. Proven theories like evolution are not mere theories, they are fact.

[InvisibleTouch]

39. Of course. It IS a fact. n/t

[Avalux]

40. Evolution is a scientific theory - a scientific law - accepted as true.

The theory of evolution the most plausible explanation for the origins of life on this planet - representing evidence scientists have collected. It's called a theory because it is complicated and cannot be easily observed and reproduced in a laboratory, however it is accepted as fact by the scientific community until something better comes along to prove it wrong.

Unfortunately, religious fanatics argue creationism and/or intelligent design as competitors of evolution because of that word "theory" - they try to confuse lay people and ignore the simple truth of the matter - that their explanations are beliefs and have no facts or phenomena to back them up.

[Edweird]

41. Evolution is a FACT.

[Blue-Jay]

42. Do you know what a scientific theory is?

My guess is no.

[BlooInBloo]

43. My guess from looking at this thread is that only 2 or 3 DUers have any idea.

[Az]

45. Its odd how reliant our society is on science and yet how uneducated about it we are

I am constantly wincing in pain whenever someone claims evolution has been proven or that we know it to be true without question. Science is always about doubt and questioning things. That is the key to its success. It dares to challenge itself constantly and never closes the book on what it understands about the world around us.

The scientific method is one of the most powerful things the human species every developed. Everyone should be made more aware of how it works and what it is. I typically try to recommend people read Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Darkness. This book should be required reading in every school. It would cut down on a lot of explanations in debates for me.

[EFerrari]

44. I can't believe we're having this discussion. n/t

[dysfunctional press]

46. it IS taught as fact...

in reputable classrooms, anyway.

[rasputin1952]

48. While there is no empirical evidence that we all came from

single cell organisms billions of years ago, much of the rest of evolution is fact.

Look at what is happenig today, many insects, bacteria viruses and other forms of life change to adapt to hostile environments. Bugs develop an immunity to pesticides, bacteria mutate all the time to avoid the effects of anti-biotics, moths change colors to match the bark on polluted tree bark...even "Wisdom" teeth are being taken out of the human gene pool.

Evolution is a fact, just as gravity is afact and electromagnetism etc...we don't have to understand it all at this point, but we need to keep searching for answers tha make facts obvious...:D