Nation of immigrants: who was yours?

[ginnyinWI]

We are a young nation and most families, I suspect, have not been here much longer than 100-125 years.
Tell me the most recent generation of your family to contain an immigrant, legal or not. My point is that there isn't so much difference between "us" and "them" and we need to relax immigration laws and allow a lot more in. There certainly seems to be enough work for them or they wouldn't be here.

[Richardo]

1. My mothers parents both immigrated from Czechoslovakia

Met here in the States, and were an 'arranged' marriage(!). Old Country habits died hard with that generation.

[ginnyinWI]

3. Interesting; what year?

An arranged marriage must have been a while ago.

[Richardo]

10. Had to have been the late 1910s or early 1920s

My Mom was the youngest of six, born in 1931.

[hobbit709]

2. None of the above

I was born in Austria but I am an American citizen by birth. My mother was Austrian, my father American.

[ginnyinWI]

6. thanks--I added a catagory for special cases. n/t

[nickinSTL]

4. one of my great-grandfathers came over from Norway

among my other ancestors, though, I have some who came over in the 17th century, some in the 18th, some in the 19th.

[ginnyinWI]

one of my great-great grandparents were German farmers.

They packed up and came to Northern Illinois to find land. On the other side of my family, my great-greats came to the Frontier in Minnesota, mid 1800s, also Germans, but this time seeking to get away from a bad political scene. Started a blacksmith shop. That same grandfather set out for the Gold Rush and was never heard from again, leaving a wife and eight kids!

[nickinSTL]

89. I had a number of German ancestors too

came from Bavaria and the Rhineland Palatinate (Rheinland Pfalz) in the 1850s and 1750s respectively.

The really early ones, those who came in the 17th century, were English.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

5. Parents came from India.

[1monster]

7. The latest arrivals that I know of in my family was my great-great-great

grandfather and grandmother in 1852. Some ancestors came in the same time period, and others have been in this country pre-Revolutionary War.

My husband had ancestors come over on one of the Mayflower voyages, and the founder of his family in this country came to New England in 1632. There's some Comanche blood running in him from somewhere...

Been here a long long time.

[ginnyinWI]

13. my husband, too

Some of his family came from England in 1630. Helped found Hartford, CT. And yes, there is Mohican Indian blood mixed in! (doesn't look it, though--he's maybe 1/64th Mohican, half German, blond and blue-eyed)

Racists beware: there are "impure" strains around you and you don't know it! :)

[1monster]

133. Middletown, CT... my husband's ancestors and yours were practically

neighbors!

My ancestors settled mainly in Pennsylvania.

[enlightenment]

18. Pretty much the same here . . .

My g.g. grandfather was the latest immigrant - he arrived in 1846. The earliest I know of came from England, part of the third party to settle at Jamestown (around 1617).

A long time.

[displacedtexan]

8. Great-grandfather from Austria (Jewish but "became" Irish w/ forced name change at Ellis Island)

It's still funny when people with my "Irish maiden name" wonder
if we're possibly related.

[Hekate]

123. Related to the Kerrys, are you? LOL

Happened in his family too, I think.

Hekate

[spoony]

9. Companies will always find room for slave labour.

"enough jobs" and Bush's famous "jobs Americans won't do" are misnomers.

[Bridget Burke]

19. And what does that statement have to do with the OP?

Do you have any roots?

[Maru Kitteh]

45. Um, if you read the OP it talks about "enough jobs"

And the poster is correct. Companies will always be happy to accommodate the lowest bidder for labor. If we want a servant class in this country we should be honest about it.

I don't want any new immigration laws that don't include a GIANT increase in the minimum wage for everyone, including migrant workers and air-tight, water-tight hermetically sealed protections for those immigrants as well as SEVERE punishments for employers who violate them, including farmers.

The border will dry up like a worm on the sidewalk if employers are forced to pay a living wage to everyone.
No more slaves for the man.

[pampango]

70. Not sure that a living wage for everyone would accomplish that.

(Though I am not sure what "The border will dry up like a worm on the sidewalk" means. No one will want to come here because they would not be hired or there would be free movement back and forth.)

Americans who were guaranteed a living wage might prefer to earn it at jobs that were not back breaking working long hours under a hot sun. We all move to better jobs when we get the chance. Any job paying an American living wage would be extremely attractive to poor immigrants. Heck you might be able to attract professionals from the Third World to work here at a manual labor job for an American living wage.

Certainly much of the early immigration to the US was not tied to "(c)ompanies will always be happy to accommodate the lowest bidder for labor." Much of that immigration was prior to the industrial revolution. They came for religious freedom or to have a better chance in life than they had in Europe with its more rigid class structure.

Latter waves of immigration did benefit industrial companies. That was in an era when government did not regulate much of anything including immigration, so it is not like immigration was the exception to the rule.

All of that history of immigration did nothing to prevent us from developing a middle class that for a time was the envy of the world. So it could be that there were unexpected benefits to society from all of the immigration which may have seemed like a negative to many people of the era.

[spoony]

87. Right on! Time to tell these employers they

can't get away with screwing over both the immigrants and the domestic workforce!

[RaleighNCDUer]

62. That's why we need to relax legal immigration limits -

the immigrants are coming anyway, and if they are legal they are harder to exploit. It is their illegal status that makes them valuable in undercutting the prevailing wage.

[TahitiNut]

82. "immigration" is about importing citizens and new members of our nation

THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING. Between "undocumented workers" and "guest workers" and H-1B visas (and their ilk) we're importing LABOR and devaluing the human beings.

Just like all goods and services, when we BUY LABOR and the dollars are sent outside this nation, we create another trade imbalance ... one which devalues our own LABOR.

When we exploit human beings for the ever-cheapening market value of their labor, we're trafficking in (slave) labor - treating human beings as a means and not an end in themselves.

The whole reason the 1986 'amnesty' didn't bring an end to the problem is because the 'problem' has NEVER been about "immigration." It's about trafficking in human labor.

Even using the word "immigration" is a total red herring. If it was about "immigration" then we wouldn't have the explosion in "undocumented workers" and "guest workers" and H-1B visas (and their ilk)!!!

Just do a sanity check: If people had exactly the same opportunity for equitable employment in their own country, HOW MANY WOULD PREFER LIVING IN THE U.S.???

(sheesh!!) :eyes:

[trashcanistanista]

117. I always believed that

Good post. Grandparents from Ireland.

[eleny]

11. All my grandparetns and my father

They all emigrated from Lithuania in the very early part of the 20th - between 1911 and and 1925.

[MedleyMisty]

12. I'm not sure what to answer

I have some Sioux and my mother says someone recently discovered some Cherokee relatives too.

I don't know anything about my father's family because my paternal grandfather ran away from home at 13 and never talked about his family, but the last name sounds English. I did a search for my paternal grandmother's maiden name and it may have a Welsh origin.

I also have some Irish - I do know that the Irish people came over in the 1700s and were among the first families in Tennessee, so I guess I'll go with been here a long time, but with some Native American heritage.

I'm basically a mixture of Native American and British Isles.

[DKRC]

75. We're probably kin way back

I have Scots & Irish (came over late 1600s through 1700s) married Cherokee on both sides up in the mountains of NC & TN.

:pals:

[waiting for hope]

14. I can claim Yorktown in the 1600's as an entry

point for one of my earliest ancestors. Did my family genealogy a few years back and it was an eye opener....so many first cousin marriages in the late 1700's up until the Civil War. People just didn't get around much and finding an acceptable partner within your social structure was difficult, hence, the Giuliana factor.

[Chemical Bill]

38. I have one family in my tree...

that I am directly descended from three of their children. Luckily the genetic defects are not so severe that I vote repuke. ;-)

Bill

[waiting for hope]

54. I'm adopted.....

Don't know much about my birth family and my Dad keeps wondering why I'm a Democrat and the rest of my family leans repuke......hee hee, maybe there is a connection. ;-)

[tjwash]

15. Well...to tell a family secret, my grandmother was dutch...

nt

[sarge43]

22. LOL

A Blazing Saddle's quote is always welcome. It's twue, it's twue.

[deutsey]

16. One side was here before the Revolution; the other was here at least prior

to the Civil War.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

17. my folks ran from stalin and hitler in their early teens

and met here.

most of my relatives perished in Siberia.

[TwilightGardener]

20. My grandfather came here from Italy in the 20's.

My great-grandparents were all immigrants from Italy and Poland.

[sarge43]

21. My family is a mixed bunch of Brits and German

One branch probably got kicked off the Mayflower, another left Ireland one gasp ahead of starvation, another one jump ahead of the law (AWOL from the German army about the time of the Franco-German war), two brothers from Bavaria who settled in PA right before the Revolution and a random assortment of Scots.

My husband's gang is interesting: On his mother's side, French Canadian and Native American. His father's parents immigrated from Galicia right before WWI. Probably sensed what was about to happen.

[scarletwoman]

23. Both my paternal grandparents were first generation U.S.-born children of Norwegian immigrants.

My maternal grandparents were second generation U.S.-born of Irish/French/German immigrants.

Both my parents are now in their 80s, I'm 57. On my father's side, there are still connections maintained with relatives who stayed in Norway. I've long thought that if worse came to worse in this country, I might try to reverse immigrate to Norway -- look up old cousin Olaf, as it were...

sw

[Rob H.]

24. Some Native American, others here before the Civil War

My paternal great-great-grandmother could remember crossing into Montana in a covered wagon when her family moved there when was a child. Dad's side is German and English, with some Sioux; mom's side is Scots-Irish, Dutch, and some Choctaw and Seminole ancestry.

Edit: I think it may have been my great-great-grandmother but I'm not sure--could have been earlier than that.

[Bridget Burke]

25. My father's parents came from East Galway.

Although they met & married here.

My maternal grandfather's parents were Irish, but I don't know the details. Perhaps children of Famine era immigrants? (Lots of info lost with early deaths in the family & the urge to wander.)

My maternal grandmother said she was "Scotch Irish." (A term the descendants of Ulster Protestant Irish invented to distinguish themselves from the unwashed Paddies.) So that branch of the family has been here longest.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. Grandmother and mother came to steal jobs in 1919.

Grandmother emigrated from Ireland to England to escape the poverty in Country Mayo. Married a Brit soldier and had 6 kids. They emigrated to Canada and he broke horses as a contractor for the Canadian army. He was killed by a "bad" horse. She became a "soldier's woman" (whore) to support the kids. She adopted out the 2 sons to Canadian farmers. The older girls were put into "service" as housemaids, including my mother at age 8.

They, grandmother and girls, emigrated to San Francisco. I doubt that my GM ever became a citizen. My mother became one by marrying an American.

[Sonicmedusa]

27. "Immigrant" sounds so voluntary

If your ancestors were brought here against their will, were they immigrants?

[Hekate]

124. I've always thought of that as a separate category. nt

[Viva_La_Revolution]

28. Great Grandparents on one side came over as children...

on the other side, you have to go back another generation... and mix them up with American Indian blood.

So, like, 3 of those options fit me. :)

[Nimrod2005]

29. I was not born here.

[pinto]

30. Maternal grandparents from Ireland (Cork and Dublin) via Halifax, NS.

[Chemical Bill]

31. Great Grandfather Richards was from Wales.

My sister thinks he spoke or sang to her in Welsh when she was a baby, because she picked up quite a bit of Welsh on a short visit to Wales. His wife, the former Miss Trimble, came from Nova Scotia, where her forbearers included a British soldier, and runaway slaves from the states. On my mother's side we go back to Roger Williams, the founder of Rhode Island, who separated church and state.

Bill

[mitchtv]

104. Hey my mother's side goes back to

Thomas Olney who went with Williams to found RI, after being run out of Cape Ann for being the wrong religion. Others ended up in the Mohawk valley fighting Indians and Brits. Dad's folks, much newer from IRL little data on those micks

[Chemical Bill]

114. I often drive down Olney St.

New arrivals wonder why it isn't Only St.

Bill

[blondeatlast]

32. We Irish were greeted much the same way Mexican economic refugees are now.

and our reasons for coming were pretty similar too.

[treestar]

106. Yep, and the nativists of that time would have loved it if they could have

thought of making it "illegal" for us to come to the U.S.

[Hekate]

126. "The Irish will never assimilate." "No Irish need apply." "They are a separate race." Amazing...

Because I am Irish-American I tend to think of the heated arguments about Mexican immigration in those terms.

The Irish changed America; America changed the Irish. And the Mexicans will change America in their turn.

As long as we remain a nation of immigrants, it's inevitable. It's who we are.

Hekate

[catmandu57]

33. It's mixed

The most recent immigrant was my great Grandmother who came here from Edinburgh in the 1880's, my father's side were Scotch Irish who came here in 1773 and promptly joined in against the British. Others were already here waiting.

[thethinker]

34. And your point is?

A more meaningful poll might have been whose ancestors immigrated legally and whose ancestors immigrated illegally.

Most people are in support of sensible immigration policy. It is 12 million illegal immigrants that just decided to move here that troubles most people.

If you think everyone that arrived at Ellis Island was admitted you are wrong. They tested them for disease, and mental problems before they let them in. If you caught something on the ship coming over, you were shit out of luck.

More than 20 million immigrants passed through Ellis Island between 1892 and 1954 (according to Wikipedia). Also, according to Wikipedia, about 2 percent were denied admission to the U.S. and sent back to their countries of origin for reasons such as chronic contagious disease, criminal background, or insanity. Another 3,000 died in the hospitals at Ellis Island.

So, 20 million came through Ellis Island in 60 years. We have 12 million that have simply walked into the country in the past few years. See the problem?

[Chemical Bill]

46. I'm not troubled by 12 million illegal immigrants.

I'm troubled by the people that form groups like PNAC, invade Iraq illegally, strip our Constitutional rights, and then stir up a distraction like "We have to do something about illegal immigration!" in order to shred the Constitution more.

Bill

[thethinker]

58. I am troubled by both

In Bush's world, I am troubled by many things.

[H2O Man]

57. Years ago

a journalist asked Tadodaho Leon Shenadoah where the first inhabitants of North America came from? It was a good question. Leon answered, "I think that those from the south had come from the north; while those in the west had come from the east; and those from the north had came from the south; and those in the east had traveled from the west."

I remember speaking with this journalist at Onondaga after Leon's funeral ceremony. She said that when he had told her his migration theory, she had thought he was pulling her leg, because he had a twinkle in his eye. But after hearing of his death, and thinking back to that conversation, she had realized that he had been serious.

Leon always had a twinkle in his eye, though it may have shown brighter when he spoke with certain people. And though I can only speculate -- having not been there when Leon spoke to the lady -- I would venture that his eye held a twinkle because he knew that what he was saying would not make sense in the context of the journalist's question. She was asking it in an anthropologist's style. But I believe he was confident that at some future point, she would recall his words, and see that there are many ways to view human history. And, judging from the twinkle in the lady's eye that day at Onondaga, I would say that Leon was right.

I think that for many people, including Native Americans and African-Americans, the symbol of Ellis Island has a different meaning than it might to you. It doesn't make one viewpoint better or worse than another. The debates on immigration aren't limited to black and white. I think we benefit from having a variety of meaningful polls.

[Bucky]

91. But of those 12 million, the majority have been here more than 10 years.

And the majority of those who "walked in" (most drove in w/o sneaking past the guards, btw) don't come to stay. They come to the country to work, make some money to improve their families' lives, then return home. This is not an invasion as people are depicting it. It's a vital component of our economy and if it gets squeezed out the US economy would be hurt.

[shanti]

35. mggparents came from southern france

via uruguay in the late 1800's (religious persecution)...the whole extended family up and left uruguay when they began conscripting all the young men for the military.

pggparents came from england via canada, early 1900.

[B Calm]

36. My grandparents immigrated here in 1911 from Belgium. Coal miner

working the coal mines in eastern Illinois and my grandfather was a strong union man! He died in 1976 and I still miss him dearly.

[panader0]

37. Potato famine Irish plus Crow Indian

[annabanana]

39. Mother's side, Mayflower... Dad's, Wampanoag . .(Pokanoket)

My Dad's folks maybe SHOULD have kicked my Mom's folks out.. .

[FlaGranny]

40. My grandparents on father's side

both emigrated from Great Britain in the 1890's. Grandmother on mother's side has family that goes back to early 1600s in Massachusetts (second Mayflower voyage). Grandfather on mother's side has family that can be traced back to mid 1700s, but probably also may have been in Massachusetts by the late 1600s. Genealogy can be fascinating.

[Bitwit1234]

41. Most of my great great great grandparents

came here in the 1700's...from England and Ireland. They were originals..only Native Americans were, but they were among the first settlers.

On my fathers side his original relative in America came here in 1740's. He was an orphan, did not know his parents. He took a unique name. If we see that name anywhere in the United States we know they are a "cousin".....

[Philosoraptor]

42. Irish.

[mitchum]

43. 1780 (France) and already here (Native American)

[shain from kane]

44. One of my ancestors encountered Lewis & Clark on their expedition. Supposedly, he was sitting

on the porch of his cabin along the Missouri River, when some boats started landing at the bank. A fellow approached him from the boats, and said, "Who are you?"
My ancestor replied, "Well, who in the hell are you?"

[janetle]

61. Is this for real?

I grew up in "Lewis and Clark county" in Montana. Constantly, we were taught about it. This is really funny.

[Marrah_G]

47. Two answers

My birth family landed in Plymouth way back when, and still live there. My great grandmother was Native American. By birth I am English, Scottish and Native.

My adopted family came to America from Ireland in the late 1800's and have lived in the Boston area ever since.

[cobalt1999]

48. family arrived in South Carolina from Scotland as part of a penal colony.

I guess they were a bit too active in trying to overthrow the English. No surprise, we are all a bit rebellious at times.

[Catchawave]

49. Both sets of grandparents immigrated...Ireland and Italy

around 1917. Through Ellis Island.

[cloudbase]

50. Immigrant parents here.

Father from Bulgaria, mother from Romania.

[TahitiNut]

51. "we need to relax immigration laws and allow a lot more in"??

Well, here's a newsflash. We did. But guess what? Those laws weren't enforced, either. So, now we're again told to change the laws. But we don't see anything that assures that even THOSE laws will be enforced.

The basic question I have is: What sense does it make to agree on the laws if those laws are NOT enforced?

Furthermore, if the laws are ignored ALMOST SOLELY when it's to the benefit of cheap labor exploiters, then what has happened to the "rule of law"?? When we democratically pass laws and they're enforced in a manner that primarily benefits the plutocrats, how does it make sense to change those laws yet again?

[Marie26]

52. Grandparents

My grandfather immigrated from Hungary as a little boy; my grandmother from Ukraine. Their families came to the US in order to work in the mills. Just like most immigrants come today in order to work - the difference is that the laws no longer allow poor laborers to immigrate legally.

[madokie]

53. on my fathers side England, on mothers side it was West Germany

my grandmother on my fathers side was full blood Cherokee

[Annces]

55. Great Grandparents

One from Belgium, one from Germany, one from Ireland. And likely one from Britain with surname Hall.

[Colobo]

56. Born and raised in Puerto Rico, which is politically part of the US but

I'm still an immigrant culturally speaking. :)

[frogcycle]

59. last immigrant ancestor I know of was mid 1800's

and I've traced a lot of lines.

the only "illegal" I know of was kidnapped at age 8 and made a cabin boy on a british sailing ship. He jumped ship at age 18, joined the Continental Army, and was at Yorktown when Cornwallis surrendered!

[newportdadde]

60. My faternal great grandfather immigrated here legally just after 1900.

I'm not 100% sure if my grandfather was born here or immigrated over with them as a newborn. Might ask my Dad this weekend. We did track down his grave together.. he had died I believe in 1914.. so strange to see your recent relative and know nothing about him, what he looked like etc.

[Kali]

63. been here at least 5 generations both sides of family

Grandmother was in (a?) DAR.

Back to Wales, France definatly a bunch of WASPs although there has been some African blood identifiers found at least in my father - heh heh that burned the KKK part of the family! (yes have an ancestor that was a member)

[hootinholler]

64. Family goes back to French and Indian War.

Twenty Years War if you're from Yurp. They settled into SW Pa. after Forbes captured Ft. Duquesne (Du Kane), which begat Ft. Pitt, which begat Pittsburgh. An ancestor became President of the Continental Congress and later, Governor of the "Western Territories" which meant Ohio and West to the Mississippi. So I guess under "crimes of the father" the family is responsible for ripping off the natives. We never owned slaves, though and were abolitionists during the Civil War. WW II, hit a generational gap, But one uncle served in Korea and another served in the navy during Vietnam, I served in the cold war.

There are not words to describe my feelings about this criminal administration.

-Hoot

[janetle]

65. My grandfather was ILLEGAL

He came to America from England as a teen ager in 1907. He was sick when he arrived at Ellis Island and his brother who was already here, grabbed him and they took off or he would have been sent back.

They ended up in the wilderness in the state of Washington (near where I now live) and my Grandpa avoided census takers and kept under the radar according to my 90 year old uncle.

Eventually, he did get papers and became a citizen but not for about 15 years.

[tmlanders]

66. My father's grandparents were "rich" Irish

So they were able to immigrate directly to Boston. My mother's grandparents were not so lucky, and had to take the cheaper seats to Newfoundland. My mother's parents lived there for a number of years and then took the train to Boston. We still have relatives in Newfy and Ireland.

[NoPasaran]

67. My grandparents were part of the big wave that came through Ellis Island

They came from what was Austria-Hungary, now Ukraine, a few years before the Great War.

[ceile]

68. All my great grandparents immigrated

2 from Ireland, 2 from Germany

[LSK]

69. Grandparents immigrated in the 20s

[Tyrone Slothrop]

71. How come there's no option for pre-great-great-grandparent?

I don't fit any of the options on your poll.

3 of my 4 family lines arrived prior to 1776; the last came circa 1800.

[aikoaiko]

72. 'Us' and 'Them': why not ask if our ancestors immigrated illegally?

I don't know anyone who is saying close the borders to all immigration -- mostly the debate has been about immigrants who circumvent US laws and policies to enter the US.

[Bridget Burke]

108. Several posters on this thread are against immigration, period.

Check it out.

[aikoaiko]

112. Frankly, its difficult for me to tell in some of the posts if they are including illegal immigrants

... or not when they use the term 'immigrants'.

Its almost impossible to talk about this issue now that legal and illegal immigration has been merged together.

[DFW]

73. Central East European Mongrel & some dubious characters

On my mother's side, some German and Polish Jews who came over in the 1840s and 1850s,
some of whom landed in the New Orleans area and fled East to escape gambling debts.

Pretty distinguished, hmmm?

On my Dad's side, some Russians, and some more German Jews. His father was born in South
Carolina in 1894, and he worked as a janitor to pay his way through Harvard. He was the
original American success story, working his way up in New York City to become deputy Mayor
under Fiorello LaGuardia, and went on to become a justice on the New York State Supreme Court.

His wife, my maternal grandmother, was a very opinionated, strong-willed woman on her own, once
working to elect the opponent of the man her husband supported for mayor of New York City. Her
father was a famous (I'm told) lawyer in early 20th century NYC in his own right.

My dad's side came over in the 1860s-1870s as far as I can tell. My siblings and I were all born
in the South again, after two generations of New York-born people. And now we have, to make it
even more colorful (and full circle) two girls born in Germany--the first in my family since the
1870s-- and two half-Japanese born in Virginia as their cousins.

You can't tell the players without a program..........

[DemReadingDU]

74. My mom's parents came from Hungary

or Romania, depending on where the line was divided between the 2 countries. They came separately on boats and cleared thru Ellis Island around 1918, settling in Clinton, Iowa.

edit to add...
My spouse's dad's family came from Newfoundland.

[hfojvt]

76. Why does only the most recent one count?

So one of my 8 great-grandparents was born outside the US in 1860. That's 7/8ths that were born here, alhough in the next generation only 6 of 16 were born here, and in the next generation only 7 of 32 and then only 6 of 64, that I know of, then 12 of 128, then 14 of 256, a mere 5% which may hold steady back to 1640.

Which is interesting, because I have many ancestors who came to this country in the early 1700s and also the mid 1600s, but that is a very small part of my family tree. There are millions of descendants of Joseph Loomis in this country, and millions of Mayflower descendants and tens of millions of people who could be members of the DAR or SAR, but perhaps that is also only a small part of their ancestry.

[ginnyinWI]

88. Well, because the point I wanted to make is

not so much that everyone is an immigrant, but that recent immigrants are important. We can't have a policy where it's okay if you've been here a long time, but not if you are recent. I say we need a steady flow of new blood to keep this country of ours fresh and alive. I wanted to see how many families are relatively recent to this country, and show how it's a good thing.

[hfojvt]

90. yet in 1860 our population was only 31 million

today it's over 300 million. I'd say our need for new blood is considerably less. Also, I'd like to see some evidence that the new arrivals were good, or will be good, for the people who are already here.
The arrival of my ancestors was certainly not good for the native Americans. Will more immigrants be good for the descendants of my great-grandparents?

"If there is any law that has been consistently operative in American history, it is that the members of any established people or group or community sooner or later become 'redskins' - that is, they become the designated victims of an utterly ruthless, officially sanctioned and subsidized exploitation." Wendell Berry "The Unsettling of America" p. 4

[pampango]

97. I doubt that there is any evidence that would satisfy you.

"I'd like to see some evidence that the new arrivals were good, or will be good, for the people who are already here." The history of massive immigration to the US is a part of the history of the growth of an economy that produced a middle class standard of living that, for a while, was the envy of the world.

Did all of the immigration cause the economic progress? I certainly am not a historian or social scientist and am not able to make that connection. What I can say is that the flow of immigrants did, at least, not prevent, and may have helped produce, our prolonged economic growth.

Of course, even if one could prove that immigrants contributed positively to the development of our modern economy, that would not mean that they were good "for the people who are already here" at that time. It is possible that they depressed wages for that era's workers. If both are true (negative impact of the workers of the era, but a positive factor in the historical development of our economy), the question for our modern time becomes, "Which is more important to me? Current pain or long term gain?).

[Bridget Burke]

105. Food writer & Liberal Calvin Trilling cooks spaghetti ala carbonara on Thanksgiving...

On that day, he's giving thanks that his ancestors did NOT come over on the Mayflower.

[Chemical Bill]

102. .

>I'd like to see some evidence that the new arrivals were good, or will be good, for the people who are already here.

Research into this subject reveals a consensus: over time, immigrants and their descendants collectively provide more to the federal government in taxes than they receive in benefits. For example, a report by the National Academy of Sciences found that a typical immigrant and his or her descendants will pay an estimated $80,000 (in 1996 dollars) more in taxes than they will receive in combined local, state, and federal benefits over their lifetimes. <8>

Perhaps the myth that immigrants are costly to American taxpayers stems from the fact that, at the state and local level, immigrants use more in services than they pay in local taxes (this is true for the vast majority of native citizens as well). The National Academy of Sciences study found that the average immigrant imposes a net lifetime fiscal cost on state and local governments of $25,000, attributable to their use of schools, roads, and so on. Those with very low levels of education and skill cost states and localities the most, particularly in health care outlays for emergency room and other hospital services. However, most of the taxes that immigrants pay, including Social Security contributions, go to the federal government, and these payments are well in excess of federal benefits received. <9> On balance, immigrants pay substantially more than they receive from all levels of government combined. <10>

http://www.immigrationline.org/publications.asp?pubid=491

[hfojvt]

103. that's kinda hard to believe

For one thing, at age 45, I have not even paid $40,000 in taxes (except FICA), much less paid $40,000 more than I have received in benefits. Second, according to my FICA report, I can start collecting $542 a month when I turn 62 (I think it's up to $700 now, but all I could find with a little digging is 2002's report). If I live as long as my dad, who is currently 74, I will collect $78,000 in benefits. $80,000 just seems high for an average. I would like to see the numbers. Maybe I have paid more sales taxes than I think.

There are other things to consider though, besides taxes. There are jobs, there is housing, there is crowding, etc. Historically, there is also the skills and knowledge that they bring. For example, we take alot of the doctors and PhDs of other countries.

Thanks for the link.

[Bridget Burke]

107. I'm sure that several generations of your family used identical arguments...

Against my ancestors who (mostly) arrived much later.

[bikebloke]

77. Around for a while

A great-back-into-the-mists-of-time grandfather was shipped off from Scotland back in the 1600's for not being Catholic. We've been in Virginia since. Maybe that helped my urge to immigrate elsewhere.

A great grandfather's parents came over from Ireland, then drowned in the Rappahanock Rover.

[BoneDaddy]

78. That is not the point

I agree with you about "who can call who immigrants" but the immigration of the past and the present are two different issues and it has nothing, at least to me, with brown skin vs european.

The volume of immigrants alone coming to America is enough to make that point that we are living in different times.

It is great to be compassionate to those looking for a better life, but I think we need to help take care of those who are citizens first before we take care of those undocumented workers.

[pampango]

84. We do indeed live in different times. The tradition of resistance to

immigration is one thing that transcends the changing of the calendar. The resistance to the waves of Irish immigration was just as intense if not more so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_American

"Nativist prejudice against Irish Catholics reached a peak in the mid-1850s with the Know Nothing Movement, which tried to oust Catholics from public office."

"In rural areas riots broke out in the 1830s ... between Irish and native American work teams competing for construction jobs."

You may feel differently, but my impression is that when people say that "We should take care of our own citizens first", they mean that the time will never come when our citizens are taken care of "well enough" and it is now alright to allow some immigration. In other words "America for Americans."

[piedmont]

120. There are more than enough Americans as it is. The world would be worse off...

with half a billion Americans consuming resources at the highest rate per capita of any nation in history of the world.

[semillama]

79. My maternal grandparents were immigrants or at least children of immigrants

Grandfather was Lithuanian, grandmother was Polish. May have been born here, but not certain of that.

On my dad's side, my grandmother's family can trace back to 1620 and Jamestown, plus there's a fairly good chance for Native American ancestry there too.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

80. 2 great great grandparents immigrated to here before the civil war. I also have a great grandparent

that immigrated here, and two grandparents that immigrated here.

[Cleita]

81. Other.

I was born in a foreign country to an American father and a mother who immigrated here with him after they married. On my father's side of the family, our ancesters were some of the original settlers of New Amsterdam, who moved to Pennsylvania when the British kicked them out and renamed it New York. Along the line German and Irish ancestors were added. So I have the unique position of being descended from some of the original European settlers of this nation and almost being an immigrant myself. God works in weird ways.

[ThomWV]

83. My Sister Followed A Branch Of The Family Way Back - England For Us

I then followed it back a few hundred years, to 1507. I hope that if my son has another girl child me will consider naming her for the earliest relative who's name I was able to find. It was a woman, I know only her date of death and a one word name; "Criane" which I am pronouncing in two syllables, Cry-Anne.

[nini]

85. 1600s for one part of my family

all 4 grandparents were born here too in the late 1800s with one grandma being born in 1901.

all descendants of those 4 have been born here.

[City Lights]

86. Three of my grandparents were immigrants.

One from Latvia and two from Russia (Volga River Germans).

[slackmaster]

92. Two great-grandparents immigrated

My paternal grandfather was born on the Hopi Indian Reservation in 1895 to a couple who immigrated from Germany in 1874.

On all other lines, you have to go back at least two additional generations to get to immigrants.

[Clark2008]

93. I'd have to go back further than my great-great grandparents.

But, that side of the family came from Ireland and Scotland.

The other side of the family are Native Americans - so we'd have to go back to the existance of the Bering Strait land mass. :)

[LostInAnomie]

94. The historical conditions aren't the same.

We don't need laborers for a growing manufacturing sector. There is no frontier that a group of self reliant immigrants can help tame.

US manufacturing is dying off with service jobs taking their place. There is a glut of unskilled labor in this country. There's even reports of teenagers having trouble finding summer jobs because they are competing with adults for McJobs. Bringing more workers in will only secure low wages and an accelerated race to the bottom.

[chaska]

95. I'm not sure immigration is that great an idea (risking near certain annihilation...

for daring to deviate from the party line).

I haven't thought this through, but I suspect that, as much as we might wish it weren't so, people prefer to be with their own kind. And forcing them to accept difference undeniably leads to conflict.

I imagine Native Ameicans would have something to teach us about immigration. It hurt them a great deal.

(Oh my god, just imagine if this were a nation based on American Indian values/culture. What a wonderful world it would be.)

Note: Again, I'm open on this question. No sin in thinking.

[pampango]

101. I am not sure that you are doing much deviating from the party line

around here. You don't here much good about immigration these days.

People may feel more comfortable around people of their own kind, though in the American context I am not sure exactly what "our own kind" is, unless it is anyone with an American passport. We are not quite the same as China, France, or Egypt where there is a shared racial/cultural/language identity to a large extent.

[Alexander]

96. Great-grandparents came to the US through Canada.

Some of them came from Scotland, others from Germany. I have some family that's been here since the Revolutionary War, and possibly going back to the Mayflower.

There's also the possibility that my adopted grandfather was fresh off the boat - nobody really knows where he was born.

[yardwork]

98. One of my grandfather's was born in the Netherlands and moved here as a child

Dutch was his first language. He learned English when he went to school. My other three grandparents were born in the United States to families who had mostly been here for hundreds of years. Their ancestors were from England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Germany, and France. I think that there is Native American in there somewhere. It's possible that the Dutch ancestors had Indonesian relatives.

Everybody in America came from someplace else, even if they came thousands of years ago. Humans didn't evolve on this continent. We are all immigrants.

[Solly Mack]

99. original people (tsa la gi) and a mixture of

english, irish, scots, african, spanish

[Orsino]

100. I dunno. My grandparents were all in South Carolina, so...

...my family history is a little hazy before the Civil War.

[Sapphocrat]

109. One grandmother, one step-grandparent, and all great-grandparents.

The Italians (three of four great-grandparents, and one grandmother, aged five) came through Ellis Island around 1901, but the interesting story is of my Portuguese great-grandfather, who was sent to "The New World," alone, when he was nine. In steerage for months, he came around the Cape, possibly saw the South Pacific, almost definitely circled the Hawaiian islands, and was literally put offa da boat in Half Moon Bay, California.

He was taken in by a farming couple, who put him to work. He married, and he and my great-grandmother lived nearly the rest of their lives working for the farming couple.

My great-grandfather never learned to speak English; no matter how hard he tried, he couldn't get the hang of it. Upon hearing the news that my father, his grandson, had completed trade school, he said proudly, then and many times after: "Orest'! Eesa macka-neest!"

Translation: "Lester! He's a machinist!"

He was an uneducated, honest, hardworking farmhand, and I'm very sorry I never knew him.

[ellisonz]

110. My grandparents on my mother's side are Holocaust survivors from Poland.

My father's are a mix of early British immigrants.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Saint_Louis

Hans Morgenthau Jr: I'm calling up again about this St. Louis, the German boat.
Cordell Hull:Yes.
HMJr: And my friends called me from New York and they said they were having some trouble, the Cubans were demanding cash.
H:Yes, they haven't been able to work out that question.
HMJr: Uh-huh.
H: Of course, the situation, you see, is that the -- the folks in New York don't want any money to get in the hands of the Cubans and the Cubans do.
HMJr: Yeah.
H: That's the problem -- that's the problem we've got.
HMJr: Well, are the people in New York right or wrong?
H: Well, it's a question. I -- of course, we would like to have it worked out that way. I'd like to see it worked out that way; if we -- if we can't get them to do it, I don't know -- then it's a question of some kind of compromise proposition, you see.
HMJr: Put up half cash and half. . . . . .
H: Well, something that way -- yes.
HMJr: I see.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/faqs/Hull_Morgenthau_2.html

[proud patriot]

111. I'm 1/8 Native American

the Immigrant ancestors of mine were my great great great Grandparents
Generation .

[Blue-Jay]

113. Two grandparents from Scotland,

One who was 50/50 Yorkshire/Cherokee, and one who was Irish/something else.

[SergeyDovlatov]

115. born in USSR, immigrated to US in 1996

[Withywindle]

116. Mom came here from Brazil in 1967 as a college student.

A branch of my dad's family came here as refugees from Ireland in 1659.

So I'm both first-generation and well-over-DAR-eligible. In other words, very American. :D

[devilgrrl]

118. My great-grandparents where those WOPs from Italy 1892 & 1906

I believe they were legal but they weren't treated well upon arrival but made do anyway. They never did grasp English but their children (grandma & grandpa) did and there you have it.

I'm shocked that people are still so reactionary about it this, it's the same old thing with different ethic groups.

[piedmont]

119. Earliest came just after the Mayflower. The latest came over around 1720. And...

a couple of great-great-grandmothers may have been Native American.

[frogcycle]

122. mine were on the Good Ship Fortune -

it was next after Mayflower. One of my mother's aunts used to joke there was no room for us on the Mayflower, because everyone else's ancestors were on it.

But I'll tell ya, when we got here, those Mayflower folk were really snooty, told us to go back where we came from, that we were ruining the neighborhood

[oldhippie]

121. Both sides of my family came over 1695-1715..

German immigrants settling on the Livingston Estate in the Hudson River Valley. Most of my clan still lives in Germantown, NY. One farm has been in the family since at least 1697, as it is shown on a map from that date. We really don't feel like immigrants any more.

[VTMechEngr]

125. Both sides are pre-USA

Both are from German Provinces, and one side fought in the Continental army under Washington.

[libnnc]

127. Dad's side peeps caught the boat over from Scotland

in the mid-late 1700s. They were from Amsterdam originally.

Mom's side were here since the early 1800s. Irish mostly.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

128. I guess "test tube baby"

is under special circumstances... :shrug:

[madfloridian]

129. Nice thoughtful post.

I have done much genealogical research. My family of course were all immigrants, some much earlier than others. Some date back to the early days of Virginia, some were Scots to the shores of North Carolina, some were Swiss German to South Carolina.

They were all immigrants, they came here for better lives. They were willing to work to make their lives better.

[RestoreGore]

130. My first known relative came to Virginia in the1600s

On one of the first three ships from the London Company to Jamestown. We are all immigrants.

[Hekate]

131. The earliest came from England about 1620; the latest from Ireland & Alsace in the 1800s

What with the Cassidys, Muloolys, and O'Haras that litter our genealogy we think of ourselves as Irish-American, but there are lots of other bits. My mother was big on telling us the immigrant story -- she thought the DAR was a bunch of snobs, and apparently my grandmother shared her opinion. Once when one of my aunts was being courted by someone from an important "old" family, grandma offered to join the DAR if my aunt really wanted to set her cap for the fellow, but you could tell that it wasn't something she exactly wanted to do.

I'm not entirely sure what that significance that has, but it may have something to do with the fact that after initially settling in Massachussetts in 1620, my immediate ancestors took part in nearly every Westward migration thereafter. My grandma was born in Nebraska, my mother was born in Colorado, I was born in California and my kids were born in Hawaii, but have been raised on the California coast.

My husband was born in Belgium, his father was born in Poland under the Russian dominion at the end of the 19th century, and his mother was born in another part of the Russian Empire altogether in 1914, but grew up in Vienna when it was still part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. His parents met and married post-Holocaust, and moved to New York during the Suez Canal Crisis, when a lot of people worried it might set off another world war. We met here on the Central Coast.

It's an amazing country, and thanks to my mother's stories I look on immigration very positively, on the whole. There's no question it needs to be regulated in some sensible fashion that has yet to be thrashed out, and there's also no question that we have *always* looked to our most recent and poorest immigrants to do a lot of the agricultural and "servant" work. I'm a believer in human rights and labor unions, so that's the foundation of any policy I'd support.

If we close our gates and build walls around this country as some have demanded, America will become some other country, and that would be a great loss.

Hekate

[madfloridian]

132. A good website: Dreams Across America

http://dreamsacrossamericaonline.org/