Just saw SiCKO

[Steepler0t]

And it is a AMAZING eye-opener on how messed up our system is.

We need a serious mindset change here in America.

Unbelievable the differences in how France or Canada actually take care of their people compared to us.

The line that really struck me is from one of the Americans living in France who said in France the government was scared of the people since they will fight back, where here we are scared of our government.

Anyone else seen it yet?

[Nomad559]

1. Anyone else seen it yet?

Yes, I up-loaded a couple of clips of the movie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x34684

:)

[LeighAnn]

2. I'm waiting for it to come out at the movies, actually

Shame on Matt Drudge for his wide dissemination of this motion picture. I hope he ends up on the bad side of a lawsuit.

[senseandsensibility]

3. I hadn't heard about this

How can he do that legally? And you know he's not doing it to promote the film.

[LeighAnn]

4. He's been linking to a site where it's available for download

"Look here! Michael Moore's movie is online!" or somesuch, with a link to a page where you could download it. This isn't reporting the news, it's being an accomplice to piracy.

[Steepler0t]

5. yes but..

I understand what you are saying but MM welcomed people pirating F-9/11.

This is no F-9/11 movie.

This is a important and we all should see it, it is not partisan in any way.

When you see it you will understand this problem is not about left/right.

It is a painful truth about the disfunctionality of our system ad a statement about how we look at ourselves and our fellow citizens in this day and age.

I hope a million freepers are downloading it right now, it is not like they would go to see it in theaters like I will anyhow and it sure is an eye opener for everyone.

[TexasLawyer]

11. He gave away copies of the film, but it was long after the theater release

[Viva_La_Revolution]

18. when I heard it was on bittorrent already, I had my roomie check the ftp sites...

It's there too.

I was hoping maybe Moore released it himself. :(

[Xenotime]

30. Moore doesn't mind...why the hell should you...

Just ask any teenager how to download movies online.....it ain't hard.

[dkofos]

47. And Michael Moore doesn't care.

In his own words
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=34856&mesg_id=34856

[TexasLawyer]

10. I will see it in the theater too

Watching a stolen copy of the movie on-line is theft, in my opinion.

[Solon]

50. Its not theft, its copyright infringement...

These aren't even comparable crimes, when you get right down to it, when something is stolen, it deprives someone of the use of that item, or the sale of that individual item. Copyright infringement doesn't do that at all. Part of the reason why I'm peeved about this is because this particular meme is perpetuated by the RIAA and MPAA.

Of course, these two groups also think that fair use rights shouldn't exist at all, so I take what they say with a huge grain of salt. This isn't to say that I believe copyrights shouldn't exist, just that they shouldn't be compared to other crimes when it simply doesn't relate at all. Logical fallacy should not be tolerated.

[Owl]

14. Yes, I'm looking forward to seeing it in the theater also.

[burythehatchet]

19. That's WONDERFUL

This movie is designed to confuse the ditto heads. They NEED to see it. MM probably could care less, though I could be wrong.

[LSK]

38. Moore doesnt mind, watch this video

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x34856

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

44. Thank you for this link! In fact not only doesn't he mind, he's Happy that people are doing it, so

the message will get out. It's fine with him as long as those who download it aren't doing it to make money off of it.

I Love Mike!

[Matariki]

6. France's history - Government, meet Guillotine.

;-)

[cyclezealot]

7. we are Americans who live in the So of France. q

I will agree with the concept they will fight back. The fourth veto. DeGaulle backed down , anyone think Sarkozy won't . In fact because French business knows it's limits, so does Sarkozy know he limits without pushing the buttons of the rabel rousers. And, we use the French health care system. The UN ranks it one of the best in the world. We agree. We just had some MRI service. Take off three zeros and that is the cost savings compared to the US costs. And service was far superior.

[Steepler0t]

8. I have to say:

After watching this I envy you for being able to live there quite a bit.

[davidwparker]

9. lucky you. I'm a francophile and hope to go to France someday

[CTyankee]

13. Yes, it was the World Health Organization I believe

that ranked countries' health systems and put France as number One. I understand it is a mixture of public and private funding. Is that so?

[2Design]

33. how do you get to live in france and use their system?

I would love to move to france but they do not employ non french is my understanding. Are you married to a French person?
Tell me details of how I could make this happen for me
I am no spring chicken

[cyclezealot]

49. When my wife came down with a serious illness

we decided to chuck the rat race. She is ok now. But, it was scarry. I owe it to her to do something else for awhile. Our situations might be different from many others. We are old enough that we could do an early retirement. So we applied for a visa where you have to show financial independce , yet with this ' carte de jour, commerce, we can work part time.
They key was we can be indepdent financially on our own w/o the need to work, so that let's us able to work part time. There are three visas' basically retired, commerce and tourist.. The second visa allows you to buy into their national health care plan, even tho our retirement benefits does not force us to.
There are work visas for young people in the work force, but they are much harder to get. You'd have to find the job first before getting your visa, have that employer vouch for needed skill and finally have that approved by the government. Not easy, but possible. You come on a tourist visa, you have to buy private insurnace and that is not the bargain the national plan is. But, in france. you need emergency surgery it is about 1/3 the cost of the same service in the US, so you will go broke at a MUCH slower rate. It took us over a year to get our carte de jour, commerce. Without financial independence we'd never have gotten it.
Yes, the UN WHO did a study of world health care systems and France was number one.

[Madspirit]

12. k&r...n/t

[TexasLawyer]

15. If people want Michael Moore and other documentarians

to continue making movies, then they need to support these film makers at the box office.

What better way for the right wing to chill the making of (and the investing in) films like this than sabotaging the box office receipts?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

16. Freedom toast gives me heartburn.... would like to see this film asap

since it deals with an area I have bitched about for yeeeeers.

[Steepler0t]

36. Since MM says sharing SiCKO is good

High quality that you can fullscreen

Please see it at theaters too ofc ;)

(mods feel free to remove link but since I saw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlAB0v8wHdc it seems fine imo)

[Garbo 2004]

43. Moore said he doesn't mind but he's not the studio that produced the film & has distribution rights.

What Moore says still doesn't make it a legal download, just FYI.

[Steepler0t]

45. good point

will not let me remove though :(

[Hissyspit]

17. "We need a serious mindset change here in America."

Now THERE'S an understatement. :)

[EVDebs]

20. I can just see the GOP's new 'Harry and Louise' ad campaign coming .... nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Lucky you

I can't wait to see it.

Did you see MM on Letterman tonight?

[Steepler0t]

32. No, was it good?

I trashed my tv set years ago, hopefully it will be on youtube.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Yes he was great

[defendandprotect]

22. "Cures" are a crock . . .

We won't see the movie here in NJ until 6/29 --
Planning all to go in big group!

But hope that Michael touched on the subject of prevention because our medicine deals in "cures" which is BS.

When you have a prevention based system, you have less illness.

Of course, that could mean ridding our environment of harmful substances!!!

Like the pesticides and chemicals we throw all over our "food."

[ConsAreLiars]

24. It's worse than "cures." PHARMA makes money by perpetuating disease

and mitigating the effects. A one pill/shot cure would not be anywhere as profitable as years and decades of pills, and they knowingly factor this into the decisions about what research options they fund.

[nonconformist]

53. He does talk about how other countries focus on preventative medicine. nt

[cascadiance]

23. Sounds like he's stealing a line right out of "V for Vendetta":

Unbelievable the differences in how France or Canada actually take care of their people compared to us.

The line that really struck me is from one of the Americans living in France who said in France the government was scared of the people since they will fight back, where here we are scared of our government.

"V for Vendetta":

"People should not fear their government, governments should fear the people."

Thomas Jefferson in effect started saying it earlier:

"When the people fear the government you have tyranny...when the government fears the people you have liberty."

Looking forward to seeing it here!

[LBJDemocrat]

25. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

I don't know. I f---ing hated V for Vendetta. The message seemed to be: If you don't like your government, plot a terrorist attack against a historic and cultural site. It made me angry.

In any case, Sicko sounds great from what the poster says. I recommended this thread.

[trumad]

28. LOL---then you totally missed the point of the movie.

....

[Xenotime]

31. V was about fighting those who oppress..

It's too bad you didn't see the whole message.

[DIKB]

26. Just saw it

and LOVED it. It was stunning how the rest of the world has it, how they all can be so lucky, and we're left to scrounge for meager scraps and die younger so that the rich can keep concentrating the wealth.

France was particularly eye-opening. I had never imagined it could be so good.

Cuba wasn't nearly the large part of the movie that the critics/bush-bots make it out to be. From my view, MM and the 9/11 responders went to the largest hospital in all of Cuba, not indicative of ALL Cuban hospitals, nor was it supposed to be. The pharmacy scene looked like it could have been anywhere though, $0.05 in Cuba for a medicine that costs $120 in the U.S.

[Steepler0t]

34. Agreed

Cuba was not a big part as people made it out to be, the castro/satan part had me rofl though.

[Oeditpus Rex]

27. I just wish it would be a catalyst for change

But it won't.

Oh, people will see it, and others will hear about it, and fists will be shaken and teeth gnashed, and politicians will react to the outcry with more empty promises.

And nothing will change, because we live not under democracy, but plutocratic corporatism.

[nonconformist]

54. Sigh

I, sadly, agree.

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

29. The French Healthcare system really is that good!

Imagine this: I woke up one morning and realized I had run out of 2 prescriptions I need for COPD. The physician I normally went to was on vacation, so I walked up the street, looking for doctor's offices. I turned into the first one I found, went in and asked for an appointment. The doctor herself told me that she was a bit too busy to see me immediately, and gave me an appointment for later that day.

I arrived about 5 minutes early and the doctor welcomed me into her office precisely at the scheduled hour! She gave me a quick workup, took a medical history, wrote the prescriptions, and ushered me out in about half an hour. She charged me 20 euros. Total.

I went to the pharmacy, where I was able to obtain my meds:

Atrovent: in the USA, I pay $92 per canister. The same canister in France is 5.5 euros

Advair: in the USA, I pay $220 - $250 per month's supply. In France, I pay 55 euros.

About a month late, I had a consult with one of Lyon's pre-eminent pulmonologists. She did a complete workup on me (including a really high-tech booth thing they put you in that measures... everything.) Consult, pulmonary testing, and blood tests combined cost exactly 292 euros.

Mind you - this was all cash - I do not have any sort of medical insurance.

[2Design]

35. how can a person come and live in france and get their health care

I am ready to go to France - need to work and be able to have health care

[Steepler0t]

39. Any clue of a craigslist type website in France?

No doubt, I have been talking about moving all day, last night a friend of mine who spends quite a bit of time in europe started nodding his head excitedly and saying "Yes, thats exactly what it's like, and people don't understand here." when I was telling him about what these Americans in France were saying, he wants to relocate his family there.

[Cleita]

41. Not only that the French have a state run day care system for

working parents that is to die for. We are so behind Europe in so many ways. It seems Europe has picked itself up from the devastation of WWII and forged ahead while we are dropping back to 1933 Germany.

[LSK]

37. I could download it, but I want to see it at the theatre 1st

Its just as important that this movie becomes a box office hit too.

[Cleita]

40. I've been preaching about the health care mess here and how

much better the system was in Canada and many other European nations even before Bill Clinton was president, often taking a lot of ridicule for it, yet I guess it took a Michael Moore to rub people's noses in it.

All hail Michael Moore!

[Cronopio]

46. Support Moore's statement watching the video, support his producers by buying tickets and DVDs.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Like all of Moore's films, this film demands repeat viewings.

In fact, burn the video to a DVD, label it "Gore, Clinton, and Monica: The Video Evidence" and send it to a dittohead relative. Or not. Just make sure you buy a theater ticket, either way.

[Uncle Joe]

48. I'm looking forward to viewing it.

Thanks for the thread SteeplerOt.


Kicked and recommended

[SeattleGirl]

51. Haven't seen it yet, but it's #1 on my "Must See" list.

I've heard nothing but good things about it from people who have seen it. "Good" meaning that it provides a lot of info, and DOES help wake people up.

[nonconformist]

52. Watched it last night - AMAZING! And to those complaining about piracy...

Yes, I downloaded it and watched it. But I downloaded and watched F/911 too.... then I saw it at the theater.... then I bought the DVD. I plan to do the same with Sicko.