Michael Moore talks about Al Gore

[NYCGirl]

In San Francisco for a screening of SICKO.

http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=2738

Most compelling of all, however, was the picture he painted of his relationship with former Vice President Al Gore. Gore is not featured in “Sicko,” but his name came up in the Q&A on Wednesday night, and it sent Moore into a lengthy, wistful tale about his meeting with Gore at his Tennessee home a year or so ago.

Turns out “Farenheit 911” – which opens with an excruciating sequence in which, having had the 2000 election snatched from him, Gore must preside over the Senate and beat back, one by one, the protestations of members of the Congressional Black Caucus, who all refer to him as “Mr. President” in anguished and defeated tones – had a powerful impact on the Gore family. Now, as an environmental crusader with an Oscar-winning documentary under his belt like Moore, Gore was evolving into an activist, even visionary American leader.

They also talked about the devastating impact Ralph Nader had on the 2000 election (those cocksure “progressives” weren’t snickering during this portion of the Q&A, I can assure you). Moore was one of the most ardent, high-profile supporters of Nader’s that year, a fact that seemed to flood him with regret on Wednesday night. But he was awestruck by Gore’s equanimity on the subject: “I didn’t lose because you voted for Nader,” Moore paraphrased Gore as saying. “I lost because I obviously didn’t do enough to convince you to vote for me instead.”

Moore came to see Gore as a brilliant, brave, sincere and, yes, humorous politician who would be great for the country, great for the world. “I hope he never listens to another advisor again,” Moore said, stopping just short of endorsing Gore, or anybody, for president in 2008 – although he made it pretty clear he’d drop everything to help Big Al if he does in fact run.

[mzmolly]

1. Proud to be among the first to recommend this.

Thanks NYCGirl. :hi:

[ourbluenation]

2. Gore/Clark 08 n/t

[Ishoutandscream2]

3. My dream ticket

I would never work harder than for a ticket like this. I really think it would be unbeatable, even with the misinformation the MSM would throw out there.

[bonito]

4. Perfect n/t K&R

[Felinity]

53. Mine, too. n/t

[susanna]

75. Me three! n/t

[CrispyQ]

61. ~swoon

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[colorado_ufo]

70. Gore/Clark is the cure.

I would drop other commitments to work for that ticket.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

127. Clark/Clark!

[DemSigns]

5. Gore/Clark 08 n/t

[zabet]

6. Gore!!

I post in another forum also, it is bipartisan. Truthfully it is a war zone.
2 months ago, no one mentioned Al. He is the hot topic now, even some cons
are seeing the light - the few that admit the squatter in the White House has
screwed America and Americans.
:smoke:

[zeemike]

10. Welcome to DU Jane

This is a much more friendly place for [progressives but we still have our moments,

[zabet]

15. Thanks!

This is a much better place!
:smoke:

[zeemike]

7. Oh to have a man with vision as precedent

like Al Gore.
Will I ever live long enough to see it again?

[hootinholler]

55. It would set an impressive president too!

:evilgrin:

-Hoot

If you edit, my joke about precedent will fall flat.

[Mabus]

8. Of course that sequence with Gore and the CBC had an impact on the Gore family

I burst out in tears and resented Michael Moore for putting it in the movie. I took it as a snipe at Gore when I saw it.

K&R because I'd drop everything to work for Gore too.

[mzmolly]

12. And the clip didn't tell the "whole" story, though it was a feel good moment

for those who supported Nader in 2000, including Moore. Glad that you too, would work for Gore.

:hi:

[Mabus]

18. Setting up a table at the Take Back America conference in D.C. next week

for the AlGore.org people. It will be the second year in a row that we have a table there. Last year we several notable Washington reporters including Dana Milbank stop by the table. Last year most of the mainstream reporters were all pretty skeptical that Gore would be the grassroot's choice. People like Eric Boehlert and the bloggers were more supportive of supporting Gore. And we see who's winning that. ;)

I can't wait to see how Dana Milbank treats us backwoods Kansas Liberals now. ;) Those beltway boys should be asking us what we, the American people, think and less time worrying about what dinner party they get invited to attend.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

33. ooohhhhh! I'd love to read your review of the conference when you get back!

:hi:

[Mabus]

34. I'm going with three other DU'ers

evlbstrd, proud2Blib and Admiral Loinpresser. And it will be the third TBA conference I've attended. It should be interesting.

evl and proud are taking their computers and proud is taking her video camera. Hopefully we'll be able to post from the conference and in between sessions.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

35. times like this, I hate being employed

I have to try and catch up every night. :(

anyway... have FUN! :hi:

[IndyOp]

48. Ammo to use if you see Milbank!

I would LOVE to be there to confront Milbank about this bit of bile he recently spewed:

“Imagine the Iowa hog farmer cracking open Assault on Reason, and meeting Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Paine, John Kenneth Galbraith, Walter Lippmann, Johannes Gutenberg, John Stuart Mill, Thomas Jefferson and Marshall McLuhan – all before finishing the introduction,” (Dana) Milbank wrote.

“Reading Gore’s book, or listening to his speeches, may remind some supporters what they liked least about him the first time he ran, in 2000. Gore is usually smart and sometimes prophetic – but, all too frequently, pedantic,” Milbank wrote.

--------------------------------

Robert Parry goes on to comment in "Gore attacks media complicity. Media proves him right - again." that...

Of course, The Assault on Reason might not remind Gore supporters of any such thing. Indeed, many Americans might be in the mood for a leader who actually knows stuff after six-plus years of listening to Bush speak in his trademark ill-informed didactic prose – and watching, in horror, the consequences.

But Milbank, like many Washington insiders, sees average Americans as stupid know-nothings who would be offended by know-it-all Gore.

In that line, Milbank reflected the elitist disdain toward the “Iowa hog farmer” and other common folk. But who knows? Maybe the great unwashed masses are smart enough to find Gore’s commentaries not only reasonable and engaging but respectful of their own intellects, that Gore is speaking up to them, not down to them.

More

[Mabus]

52. Copied and printed

I talked to him last year and I ended up mentioning to him that he really should get out of the beltway from time to time and find out what's going on in America.

[IndyOp]

13. Do you still think it was a snipe? I thought Moore's "Was it all a dream?" start

to the film was wonderful. "Was it all a dream?" - with the photos of Al & Tipper celebrating their victory, seemed to me to be looking back with sorrow.

I was pained watching the CBC because some other Senator should've stood up with them -- even if Al had requested otherwise. The issue was disenfranchisement of voters not just the horrid unfairness of the situation to Al and all of us who voted for him.

What do you think about the segment now that you've seen this post?

:shrug:

[Mabus]

16. I think Moore regrets including it without giving it more context

or flushing it out a little more. Otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned that the sequence anguished them. If it had no impact on him personally Moore would have said it bothered them or wouldn't have mentioned it at all.

I'm very confident that at the time that Moore made F 9/11 he wasn't a Gore fan.

Thinking about now, I still don't think it was fair to Gore. Al fought for the presidency for over 30 days until the SCOTUS declared Bush the winner.

[flyarm]

32. all part of the Octopus!!...part of Iran contra..unfinished!!..but now they have us

unless we fight back with Al Gore and someone who has fought this fight and is smarter than the media and the octopus!!

run Al run!! we need Al like never before..he knows where the bodies are buried..

he knows where the loss of rule of law is going..he knows how to stop it..he knows who is involved.

this is an age of terror..he knows how to stop it!!

we are in a terrorist economy..he knows this and he can guide us to stop it!!

and it will take all of us..working with him..and for our own survival.

fly

[IndyOp]

47. Mabus - I don't read the OP at all as saying that the scene anguished the Gores...

I am more than willing to admit this is a matter that is open to interpretation. But I read the article quoted as saying that the scene was excruciating for the author of the article - as it was for most of us. I don't read it as saying that the scene was excruciating for the Gores.

Turns out “Farenheit 911” – which opens with an excruciating sequence in which, having had the 2000 election snatched from him, Gore must preside over the Senate and beat back, one by one, the protestations of members of the Congressional Black Caucus, who all refer to him as “Mr. President” in anguished and defeated tones – had a powerful impact on the Gore family.

It seems likely to me that the scene's powerful impact was, in part, liberating for the Gore family -- millions of people learned about the disenfranchisement that was part of the election having been stolen from him and from us.

Have you ever known a truth that few others knew and wound up feeling insane? It is liberating to have the truth out there.

We all knew about the hanging chads, but the corporate media did not cover the disenfranchisement of African American voters and so most Americans thought that the race was really, really close in Florida and that either "Bush won" or "we'll never know because SCOTUS stopped the count". As a professor colleague of mine said - Gore shouldn't have let it be so close. If those 1,000's of voters had not been disenfranchised it would never have been thought close.

Gore comes off in that scene as resigned, trying to maintain composure in a nightmarish situation, and - yes - a little pedantic as he tells the CBC members to sit down.

Gore's behavior is, if nothing else, a dramatic demonstration of commitment to the rule of law and to his belief that the system is self-correcting.

I would think that a lot of the feedback that the Gores got after the movie was very positive - in the sense that people had not know everything he had gone through, in the sense that it became less taboo to talk about the issue with him.

I wonder if part of the reason Gore agreed to do "Inconvenient Truth" was his experience with the power of "Fahrenheit 911"?

Finally, more often than not, grieving requires diving right into the most excruciating memories and staying there until they no longer have power.

The Gores invited Michael Moore to their home...

[Mabus]

56. You are right and I am wrong.

You are right and I am wrong (never thought you'd see that on a DU subject line did you? ;) ) Now you're just making sense. You and your reasoned response! :shakes fist: Damn you! :evilgrin: I did transpose the word "anguish" to the following sentence and then I went off on a tear. I did it. I transposed the word anguish (in my mind) to the sentence mentioning the Gores my name.

In my defense I'm on some meds that make me feel absolutely miserable. It's an antibiotic to hopefully knock out the Lyme Disease I've contracted. It thought it was just me but I found a website (when I was looking for side effects and contraindications) where others are reporting the same symptoms: lethargy, muddled thinking, nausea, blurry vision, insomnia - you know the stuff in the commericals that they gloss over. (It also has given me sun-sensitivity which sucks because like a minority of Native Americans I have hereditary actinic prurigo, an allergy to the sun).

I see where you're coming from and I understand what you are saying. But I still think he included the footage of Al and the CBC to make Gore look like he gave up when he could have done something. The only thing that would convince me otherwise is if Michael Moore would explain why it was included. fwiw, Moore will be at the TBA conference so I might actually get a chance to ask him.

All I know is the Gore and his family have found an inner strength that I don't know that many of us will understand or could've survived emotionally and mentally.

[IndyOp]

59. No, no - I insist - YOU were right...

I think there is definite truthiness in the following statements:

"But I still think he included the footage of Al and the CBC to make Gore look like he gave up when he could have done something."

"All I know is the Gore and his family have found an inner strength that I don't know that many of us will understand or could've survived emotionally and mentally."

Feel better soon! I am looking forward to your posts from the Take Back America conference!

:hug:

[Mabus]

90. No, I wouldn't think of it

In the end, all I'm saying is,Gore isn't perfect but neither is Moore. I'm just grateful that Moore isn't demonizing Gore like he used to do.

[CTyankee]

91. Al Gore was, as VP at the time, the president of the Senate

and as such he was being addressed as Mr. President. The irony is painful, but Gore was doing his job and lots of credit goes to him for being so situated at that precise time in his life.

[Radical Activist]

78. But Gore was there when it happened.

Why the hell didn't it affect him at the time?

[Mabus]

85. Gore is a statesman

He was there doing his job as President Pro Tem of the Senate. What do you think the RW and the media would have done to him if he had acted any other way?

[earthlover]

97. not to be picky, but...

Gore presided over the Senate because he was Vice President. The President pro tempore of the Senate is, indeed, a separate position. Not to be confused with Gore's role. The President pro tempore would have filled in if Gore had been absent.

[Mabus]

99. When someone's wrong, you should be picky

I was wrong. Thank you for correcting me.

I'm pleading my meds again but my husband is telling me that excuse is getting old. Oh well, eight more days and I'm off 'em!

[earthlover]

100. Smiles

[Mabus]

101. Better to admit I'm wrong

than have everyone think I'm a complete a**. ;)

Thanks. Accuracy is important and underappreciated. Thank you for providing it. :hi:

And welcome to DU.

[Cha]

9. That's the best thing

I've heard in a long time!

"I didn’t lose because you voted for Nader,” Moore paraphrased Gore as saying. “I lost because I obviously didn’t do enough to convince you to vote for me instead.”

Oh, that we all should evolve as Gore has..and I'm talking about EVO-LU-TION, baby~!

And I agree with Michael about the "advisor" thing..don't listen to 'em, candidates!

You end up like bush with no brain of his own..if indeed he ever got one from ol' pappy and sappy.

[arewenotdemo]

24. I love MM, but how anyone could miss Nader's overwhelming

narcissism is beyond me.

[Cha]

25. I didn't like nader's reference

to "TweedleDum and TweedleDee" when anyone could see that bush was the dum and dee all rolled into one plastic bullshit candidate with the whorepress propping him up all along until the bitter end, it seems.

[ludwigb]

88. Gore Was Never A Supporter of the "A Vote for Nader is a Vote for Bush" line.

Although he obviously understood the strength of that argument. But he always maintained that he deserved the vote on substantive grounds, and that mere strategic arguments were not an adequate reason to vote for him.

[Cha]

94. Gore's a brilliant man and this

country would have benefitted if he had been allowed to take his rightful place.

But, imo, the good ol' USA's karma gave us the bushits and hopefully we're paying some of our debt to the cosmos with these machiavellian losers.

[Bjorn Against]

11. I really like this quote...

“I didn’t lose because you voted for Nader,” Moore paraphrased Gore as saying. “I lost because I obviously didn’t do enough to convince you to vote for me instead.”

While in truth Gore won and had the election stolen from him, I do like the fact that he is willing to recognize that he could have done more to win Nader voters to his side. It gives me a lot more faith that he will do more to reach out to progressives should he decide to run again.

[BattyDem]

17. That quote is very impressive for another reason, too.

It shows us that Al Gore is not a man who blames other people for his mistakes. When he "lost", he was willing to look at himself and examine his own actions when it would have been much easier to point the finger and blame someone else. Unlike the current resident of the White House, Mr. Gore is a grown-up who is not afraid to take responsibility when things don't go as planned.

[Lisa]

26. I remember at the time that some people claimed Gore was blaming everyone else

... even having it out with Bill Clinton on one occasion. I think this quote shows that he is more magnanimous and diplomatic than those critics gave him credit for. (Actually, it gave me the chills. I feel that Michael Moore is not a guy who is easily impressed, and he evidently was by his meeting with Gore.)

[MaryBear]

40. Gore probably did blame others. But he grew.

And that is what strikes me about this quote. He appears to be a man able to change and grow and keep learning. But why Gore with Clark in particular?

[earthlover]

82. Why Gore and Clark in particular?

Maybe because Michael Moore endorsed Clark for 04.

[marlakay]

14. Tells me Moore has evolved too

I remember watching him on Bill Maher before Kerry's vote in 2004 begging on hands and knees for him not to run again...

I think both men learned from the lose...(or supposed loss) this country is all about money and 30 sec commercials. That no matter how much we want a third party it isn't going to happen until it changes with the money...

[Mabus]

29. and the change, as much as we want it to, isn't going to happen over night

Damn I'd love a parlimentary system right about now.

[Kazak]

19. "stopping just short of endorsing Gore"

Now, wouldn't that be ironic!?!

[Mabus]

27. On Maher a few weeks ago Moore said the guy he wanted wasn't in the race yet

and then he said he was talking about "The Man from Tennessee, Al Gore".

I found it ironic at the time.

[Seabiscuit]

30. Well, of course - one can't endorse a non-candidate until he becomes a candidate. n/t

[loudsue]

20. I sure hope Al Gore runs.....this country needs him worse than anyone will ever know right now.

:cry: I can't believe he'd let Hillary or Obama try to take over the reins of this country right now. The problems that face us require a REAL leader. A REAL, PROGRESSIVE, SMART leader.

:kick::kick::kick:

[ClintonTyree]

43. Could you blame him for not wanting to run though?

Anyone attempting to pick up the pieces after Bush's reign of ignorance, lawlessness and cronyism is in for a nightmare of a Presidency. Gore is the only one who could possibly sort it all out and fix it, in my opinion. But why should he? After being dumped on by nearly everyone in the media and BOTH sides of the political aisle, why should he give a damn? None of the present Democratic candidates are up to the task, in my opinion. They don't have the political WILL to do what needs to be done.

I'm hoping his overwhelming love of country and a determination to get the U.S. back on a pre-"W" course of sanity will be enough, but I wouldn't blame him a bit if he turned his back on this country for the way it treated him. I'm sure the pain of that will never completely go away. I hope he can find it in his heart to forgive this soulless country and claim what is rightly his: the Presidency of the United States of America.

Imagine this country, right now, had Al Gore not been denied what was rightfully his in 2000. :cry: I cry for what MIGHT have been!

[emmadoggy]

66. You took the words right out of my mouth.

Especially this part..."Gore is the only one who could possibly sort it all out and fix it, in my opinion." And..."None of the present Democratic candidates are up to the task, in my opinion."

Those are exactly my opinions too. Not saying that the other candidates are not good people or have good intentions, but we are quite possibly in one of the biggest messes we've ever been in - our democracy, constitution, and civil liberties are being systematically dismantled, we're being consumed by a stupid, pointless and immoral war, our good name and reputation around the world has been turned to shit, our domestic needs have been almost entirely ignored, government functions are being farmed out to private companies who are only out to make a buck, our media is a joke, corporations are practically ruling the world, and we have peak oil and the global climate crisis bearing down hard on us. We are in a time of serious CRISIS, in my opinion. And I think we need someone with enormous fortitude, strength, vision, courage, leadership, intelligence, and experience to give us even a CHANCE of solving these problems. We also need someone who has a full and deep understanding of just how much shit we are in, who recognizes the scope of it and sets out to not just slap on a bunch of band-aids, but to get to the roots of the problems and find solutions starting at the source. We need someone who will go back and UNDO so much of what the Bush Administration has done and start DOING all the work they never DID. Al Gore is the ONLY one who I believe fits this bill. We need someone who is ready to throw down the gauntlet and push hard and fast for solutions without nervous-nelly trepidation or cow-towing to critics. I'm worried about the gigantic ticking clock I hear that is counting down to our doom if we don't act fast and decisively. We don't have time anymore for baby-steps, we need a giant leap. Al Gore has the courage and vision we need. In my view, he is the ONE.

I know he is not perfect or super-human and NO ONE is going to be able to do EVERYTHING that needs to be done, but I think Al will come the closest and will restore integrity and leadership to our government and get us back on track to what our country was and is supposed to be, which will hopefully last into future administrations.

If Al decides not to run, I certainly will not blame him for not wanting to put himself into such a monumentally difficult position but I pray that he will decide to reach out and grab that which was stolen from him and try to save this country that he obviously loves so much.

Yes, ClintonTyree, I also cry for what MIGHT have been and hope that we may yet get to experience it!

[Raksha]

95. Great post--my sentiments exactly! n/t

[Horse with no Name]

21. Michael Moore was on a talkshow recently

I think it might have been Bill Mahrer or David Letterman and he said that he WOULD endorse Gore. He was very passionate.

[Mabus]

28. I saw him on Maher's last show and he said he wanted Gore

I found it somewhat ironic but was glad to see Moore climbing on the Gore Love Train.

[dpbrown]

22. We need Al Gore

Every day full of creepy BFEE terroristic threats, Republican double-talk, and record high world temperatures reinforces that fact.

[dpbrown]

23. Gore/Feingold 2008

These two would truly bring forward the better world we all aspire towards.

[hippiechick]

76. EXACTLY!

:applause: :patriot:

That's been my dream '08 ticket for about a year, now!

:applause: :patriot:

[FourScore]

77. That's the ticket! With Clark as Sec Def or SoS n/t

[earthlover]

84. Why take Feingold out of Congress?

Clark is perfect for VP or Pres. He cannot be Sec of Defense due to not being a civilian for 10 years. Although he would make a great Sec of STate, as he would do any job well, first and foremost unless the Democratic ticket wins, the Republicans choose Sec of State. Clark and Gore would ensure that it would be a Democratic choice!

[Fiendish Thingy]

31. Gore/AnybodybutLeiberman '08 n/t

[JenniferJuniper]

37. My fat, old Republican boss

just said today that he would vote for Al Gore in a general election against anyone, whether he was running as a Democrat or an Independent. Mind you, this man takes Freeper stances on almost everything.

Why?

"I think it's time to elect the most intelligent person we can find. Stupid didn't work."

I'm still not sure I believe him, and even if he is telling the truth, it's likely that he's just scared to death of Hillary. (I'm not a Clinton supporter, but I do love how she terrifies fat, old Republican men.) But I just can't see Gore losing this if he can get an organization together in time. I can't imagine those who voted for him the last time changing their minds, and I think there are a ton of additional people out there - people like my boss - who feel some sort of guilt about their prior votes and are now hoping for atonement.

If Gore doesn't run, I most fear a Clinton-Romney match-up. Even under the present circumstances, Romney could very well win. And he is a very dangerous man. Every bit as evil as Bush, but glib, polished, intelligent and attractive. He's truly a frightening combination, especially considering the fact that Bush will be leaving behind a tattered Constitution and a framework that could be used to completely destroy what's left of it.

Run, Al, Run.

[annabanana]

45. "Stupid didn't work."

Gotta love it.

[NewJeffCT]

110. sounds like a bumper sticker in the making

Vote Democratic in 2008 - Stupid didn't work

[hiaasenrocks]

49. I have a client who said almost the same thing.

She's a Republican, too, and also very fat. For some reason, she likes Gore. Maybe Hillary scares fat women too! I think you're on to something.

[ananda]

72. ditto

Run, Al, Run.

[byronius]

36. That scene in Farenheit made me cry.

Just reading the description brings it all back. One of the darkest moments in American history.

Good for Moore, for finally figuring out what I knew way back then.

[Skip Intro]

39. I'll never forget this scene....

WATERS: The objection is in writing, and I don't care that
it is not, is not signed by a Member of the Senate. (cheers, clapping)

AL GORE: The Chair will advise that the rules do care, uh, and (loud
cheering, clapping) ...

NARRATOR: Not a single senator came to the aid of the African-Americans
in Congress. One after another they were told to sit down and shut up.

REP. JACKSON: It's a sad day in America, Mr. President, when we can't
find a Senator to sign these objections...

AL GORE: Gentleman will suspend (bangs gavel, Jackson continues
talking), the gentleman will suspend.

DAN RATHER VOICEOVER: Inauguration coverage 2001 on a nasty but it could
be worse kind of day in Washington.

(cut to protestors)

NARRATOR: On the day George W. Bush was inaugurated, tens of thousands
of Americans poured into the streets of DC in one last attempt to claim
what had been taken from them. They pelted Bush's limo with eggs and
brought the inauguration parade to a halt. The plan to have Bush get out
of the limo for the traditional walk to the White House was scrapped;
Bush's limo hit the gas to prevent an even larger riot. No President had
ever witnessed such a thing on his inauguration day.

[Mabus]

57. It's especially poignant because 90% of the black vote went to Gore, highest since LBJ

A higher percentage than voted for Clinton in either the 92 or 96 elections.

A record 90% of the black vote went to Gore, exceeding the margins of Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, and Bill Clinton, who had connections at least as strong as Gore's to the black community. Conversely, the white vote went strongly for Bush, 54-42%.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1272/is_2668_129/ai_69698398

[NYCGirl]

62. Wow. I had no idea! NT

[Mabus]

65. I don't think many people do

That's why I (personally) think it is amusing whenever Clinton is called the "first black president" because of his popularity among black voters when I know that Gore got a higher percentage of the black vote.

Don't ever believe it when you hear that Gore doesn't connect.

[StrongFRONT22]

38. Gore isn't bad

but he isn't running....

[Pastiche423]

41. Yet

[Hubert Flottz]

42. I believe Al Gore knows he has a job to do.

I think he'll be one of the best presidents the country has ever had.

[ClintonTyree]

44. That's exactly what it's going to take.....

to get this country back to a pre-Bush state of normalcy: one of the best Presidents this country has ever had. In my mind, Al Gore IS that person. RUN, AL, RUN! :applause:

[emmadoggy]

68. I agree!!!

:thumbsup:

[The Wizard]

46. In spite of

Shrum and Liebermann, Gore won in 2000 only to have Antonin (candidate for impeachment) Scalia grant a stay on specious grounds to stop the recount that would have stopped the insanity known as the Bush Administration. Al Gore can win this time. All the Democratic Congress has to do is impeach Scalia for ramming fascism down our throats with his corrupt decision to stop the recount. Impeaching Scalia would also send a message to other, present and future, corrupt Supreme Court Justices.
Actually, impeachment for Scalia is not justice, public horse whipping and sodomizing by the entire NBA would be better and could be sold on Pay-Per-View.

[blogslut]

50. "I hope he never listens to another advisor again"

Me too, Mike. Me too.

If Gore runs, I'll vote for him. If he doesn't, he will still be a powerful voice for the righteous causes. Win/Win.

[HamdenRice]

51. Point of info about Black Caucus's use of "Mr. President"

Just in case anyone misunderstood, they were correctly referring to Gore as "President of the Senate" in his capacity as outgoing Vice President, presiding over the Senate's proceedings. They were not alluding to the idea that they considered him to have been elected POTUS -- although the ironic symbolism obviously was there.

[iamahaingttta]

54. I think Al Gore could be the best president since...

...Franklin Roosevelt, and would probably (metaphorically) end up on Mount Rushmore. The irony, is that he may or may NOT have been such a great president if he had taken the White House in 2000. People like to discuss the "golden age" that we would have experienced if Shrubby had never been prez, but I actually doubt it would have gone down quite like that. He may have actually remained the "old Al Gore" but his experiences have surely changed him. That "loser" from 2000 is gone and will never come back...

[colorado_ufo]

71. Gore has grown from a Big Man into a Giant.

[RestoreGore]

58. No more advisors, no more polls, and no more harrassment

Just him doing it HIS way. And how nice that Michael Moore came to see Mr. Gore for who he has always been. It took him getting out of politics for that to happen with many people, which only proves he is on the right track now.

[wryter2000]

60. Thanks

I admire Michael Moore for making the effort to work through this. It can't be easy for him. Gore's right, though. As much as Naderites drive me nuts sometimes, they didn't cause this mess. The election was stolen, and when the outright theft didn't work quite well enough, the Supreme Court gave it to Bush.

I wish Moore could convince Gore that we need him to run.

[Uncle Joe]

63. This is a most inspiring thread!

Thank you NYCGirl

Kicked and recommended

[dysfunctional press]

64. Gore/Bradley, Gore/Clark... or....Gore/Moore?

okay- i know it's not a serious suggestion, but i just like the way 'Gore/Moore' sounds.

[Maat]

67. Run, Al, run! (n/t)

[emmadoggy]

69. I think it's wonderful that Michael Moore has "seen the light" about Al Gore,

and even better that he is speaking out about it too.

Great post, NYCGirl. Thanks. :)

By the way, I love your Al avatar. It's lovely!

[otohara]

73. 2000 Wrong, Needs to Be Righted

in 2008, or god forbid, 2012 if a republican wins in 08.

[moblsv]

74. if we elect a Rep in 2008

it's entirely possible there may not be a 2012. Seven years of Bush has made this the most dangerous time in human history. Somebody like Giuliani could literally destroy America.

[Radical Activist]

79. If Gore was so easily swayed by advisers in 2000

Why should I believe he'll be any different if he's elected President. How long will it take for the new Al Gore to revert back to the old Al Gore? Sorry, but I'm not willing to forget the past so easily just because Gore gave a few good speeches.

[iamahaingttta]

81. I think you have a good point.

However, I for one, am willing to surrender to the POSSIBILITY that Al Gore's personal growth has made him, well, a new man. None of us has experienced the things that he's gone through, in fact very few people in the history of the planet have had the intensity of experience that he has. And from what I can see, and have heard from others (I have friends who work at CurrentTV), I'm willing to risk that he won't revert back to that stiff old jerk who blew it in 2000.

Besides, what's the alternative? Hillary Clinton?

Yuuuuuckkk!!!

[Nictuku]

80. Gore/Kennedy!

(Robert F. Kennedy Jr.)

[proud patriot]

83. This is a full circle moment

A beautiful thing :)

[AtomicKitten]

86. Moore's turnabout on Gore is inspiring.

There is hope.

Hi NYCGirl :hi:

edited for K&R :)

[NYCGirl]

87. Isn't it?

Hi, AK!


:hi:

[Mabus]

105. Yes, it is!

:hi: NYCGirl. Just doing an inconspicuous 11:40 p.m. (my time) bump. ;)

[AikidoSoul]

89. Moore would be a great ally to Gore. My heart soars!

Rec and kick

[davidwparker]

92. "drop everything to help Big Al" - I think a lot of us will too (nt)

[ooglymoogly]

93. Gore Clark is the only win win cituation the dems have

in 2008. It is time for Gore to begin preparing for entry even if it is not convenient for him, civilization requires it of him. k&n

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

96. Gore/Moore?

Michael Moore's work is brilliant, and hopefully SICKO will cause the people to go out in the streets and do something about the abysmal health care system in the US.

[peacetalksforall]

98. Well, one day back in 2000, I became so upset about Moore and

his support for Nader that I sent a civil note to him and then cancelled out from his mailing list. Never signed up again, though I have plenty to thank him for in the documentaries he has made and his opportunities to tell the truth and for telling the truth in straight, serious, and funny ways. Now, he's back in my estimation. I'm happy to support both Gore and Moore.

[mntleo2]

102. People Seem To Conveniently Forget That

...over 350,000 DEMOCRATS in FL alone crossed the line and voted for Bush ~ far more than the palty amount of Nader voters in that state or any state. Hear this one more time: DEMOCRATS made this election so close *not* Greens. Turncoats. At least the Greens SAID UP FRONT what they believed in. Gore is right about being a better persuader and I am glad he learned from that.

And I do not think Moore did anything more than show us the Truth and the Truth hurts sometimes, why is that so bad??? It should also be a good kick in the pants to learn from, which Gore has learnt it appears, even if most of the rest of us have not ~ get it?

Another truth being overlooked from here and everywhere BUT with Gore was how the BLACK Democratic Caucus (who were, as usual, WAY ahead of their time), were being trivialized and ignored. Could we dare say the word RACISM here???? Maybe they deserve a great deal of respect from now on, for the wisdom they possess from where they come whenever they speak, see????? It is time to stop the blame, take a hard look and GET IT!

There are lots of lessons to be learned here, not to blame but dammit TO FREAKING LEARN FROM IT.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[xkenx]

103. Everything Michael Moore said when endorsing Wes Clark in '04 holds true now.

I?ll Be Voting For Wesley Clark / Good-Bye Mr. Bush ? by Michael Moore

Many of you have written to me in the past months asking, "Who are you going to vote for this year?"

I have decided to cast my vote in the primary for Wesley Clark. That's right, a peacenik is voting for a general. What a country!

I believe that Wesley Clark will end this war. He will make the rich pay their fair share of taxes. He will stand up for the rights of women, African Americans, and the working people of this country.

And he will cream George W. Bush.

I have met Clark and spoken to him on a number of occasions, feeling him out on the issues but, more importantly, getting a sense of him as a human being. And I have to tell you I have found him to be the real deal, someone whom I'm convinced all of you would like, both as a person and as the individual leading this country. He is an honest, decent, honorable man who would be a breath of fresh air in the White House. He is clearly not a professional politician. He is clearly not from Park Avenue. And he is clearly the absolute best hope we have of defeating George W. Bush.

This is not to say the other candidates won't be able to beat Bush, and I will work enthusiastically for any of the non-Lieberman 8 who might get the nomination. But I must tell you, after completing my recent 43-city tour of this country, I came to the conclusion that Clark has the best chance of beating Bush. He is going to inspire the independents and the undecided to come our way. The hard core (like us) already have their minds made up. It's the fence sitters who will decide this election.

The decision in November is going to come down to 15 states and just a few percentage points. So, I had to ask myself -- and I want you to honestly ask yourselves -- who has the BEST chance of winning Florida, West Virginia, Arizona, Nevada, Missouri, Ohio? Because THAT is the only thing that is going to matter in the end. You know the answer -- and it ain't you or me or our good internet doctor.

This is not about voting for who is more anti-war or who was anti-war first or who the media has already anointed. It is about backing a candidate that shares our values AND can communicate them to Middle America. I am convinced that the surest slam dunk to remove Bush is with a four-star-general-top-of-his-class- at-West-Point-Rhodes-Scholar-Medal-of-Freedom-winning-gun-owner-from-the-South -- who also, by chance, happens to be pro-choice, pro environment, and anti-war. You don't get handed a gift like this very often. I hope the liberal/left is wise enough to accept it. It's hard, when you're so used to losing, to think that this time you can actually win. It is Clark who stands the best chance -- maybe the only chance -- to win those Southern and Midwestern states that we MUST win in order to accomplish Bush Removal. And if what I have just said is true, then we have no choice but to get behind the one who can make this happen.

There are times to vote to make a statement, there are times to vote for the underdog and there are times to vote to save the country from catastrophe. This time we can and must do all three. I still believe that each one of us must vote his or her heart and conscience. If we fail to do that, we will continue to be stuck with spineless politicians who stand for nothing and no one (except those who write them the biggest checks).

My vote for Clark is one of conscience. I feel so strongly about this that I'm going to devote the next few weeks of my life to do everything I can to help Wesley Clark win. I would love it if you would join me on this mission.

Here are just a few of the reasons why I feel this way about Wes Clark:

1. Clark has committed to ensuring that every family of four who makes under $50,000 a year pays NO federal income tax. None. Zip. This is the most incredible helping hand offered by a major party presidential candidate to the working class and the working poor in my lifetime. He will make up the difference by socking it to the rich with a 5% tax increase on anything they make over a million bucks. He will make sure corporations pay ALL of the taxes they should be paying. Clark has fired a broadside at greed. When the New York Times last week wrote that Wes Clark has been ?positioning himself slightly to Dean?s left," this is what they meant, and it sure sounded good to me.

2. He is 100% opposed to the draft. If you are 18-25 years old and reading this right now, I have news for you -- if Bush wins, he's going to bring back the draft. He will be forced to. Because, thanks to his crazy war, recruitment is going to be at an all-time low. And many of the troops stuck over there are NOT going to re-enlist. The only way Bush is going to be able to staff the military is to draft you and your friends. Parents, make no mistake about it -- Bush's second term will see your sons taken from you and sent to fight wars for the oily rich. Only an ex-general who knows first-hand that a draft is a sure-fire way to wreck an army will be able to avert the inevitable.

3. He is anti-war. Have you heard his latest attacks on Bush over the Iraq War? They are stunning and brilliant. I want to see him on that stage in a debate with Bush -- the General vs. the Deserter! General Clark told me that it's people like him who are truly anti-war because it's people like him who have to die if there is a war. "War must be the absolute last resort," he told me. "Once you've seen young people die, you never want to see that again, and you want to avoid it whenever and wherever possible." I believe him. And my ex-Army relatives believe him, too. It's their votes we need.

4. He walks the walk. On issues like racism, he just doesn't mouth liberal platitudes -- he does something about it. On his own volition, he joined in and filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court in support of the University of Michigan's case in favor of affirmative action. He spoke about his own insistence on affirmative action in the Army and how giving a hand to those who have traditionally been shut out has made our society a better place. He didn't have to get involved in that struggle. He's a middle-aged white guy -- affirmative action personally does him no good. But that is not the way he thinks. He grew up in Little Rock, one of the birthplaces of the civil rights movement, and he knows that African Americans still occupy the lowest rungs of the ladder in a country where everyone is supposed to have "a chance." That is why he has been endorsed by one of the founding members of the Congressional Black Caucus, Charlie Rangel, and former Atlanta Mayor and aide to Martin Luther King, Jr., Andrew Young.

5. On the issue of gun control, this hunter and gun owner will close the gun show loophole (which would have helped prevent the massacre at Columbine) and he will sign into law a bill to create a federal ballistics fingerprinting database for every gun in America (the DC sniper could have been identified within the first days of his killing spree). He is not afraid, as many Democrats are, of the NRA. His message to them: "You like to fire assault weapons? I have a place for you. It's not in the homes and streets of America. It's called the Army, and you can join any time!"

6. He will gut and overhaul the Patriot Act and restore our constitutional rights to privacy and free speech. He will demand stronger environmental laws. He will insist that trade agreements do not cost Americans their jobs and do not exploit the workers or environment of third world countries. He will expand the Family Leave Act. He will guarantee universal pre-school throughout America. He opposes all discrimination against gays and lesbians (and he opposes the constitutional amendment outlawing gay marriage). All of this is why Time magazine this week referred to Clark as "Dean 2.0" -- an improvement over the original (1.0, Dean himself), a better version of a good thing: stronger, faster, and easier for the mainstream to understand and use.

7. He will cut the Pentagon budget, use the money thus saved for education and health care, and he will STILL make us safer than we are now. Only the former commander of NATO could get away with such a statement. Dean says he will not cut a dime out of the Pentagon. Clark knows where the waste and the boondoggles are and he knows that nutty ideas like Star Wars must be put to pasture. His health plan will cover at least 30 million people who now have no coverage at all, including 13 million children. He's a general who will tell those swing voters, "We can take this Pentagon waste and put it to good use to fix that school in your neighborhood." My friends, those words, coming from the mouth of General Clark, are going to turn this country around.

Now, before those of you who are Dean or Kucinich supporters start cloggin' my box with emails tearing Clark down with some of the stuff I've seen floating around the web ("Mike! He voted for Reagan! He bombed Kosovo!"), let me respond by pointing out that Dennis Kucinich refused to vote against the war resolution in Congress on March 21 (two days after the war started) which stated "unequivocal support" for Bush and the war (only 11 Democrats voted against this--Dennis abstained). Or, need I quote Dr. Dean who, the month after Bush "won" the election, said he wasn't too worried about Bush because Bush "in his soul, is a moderate"? What's the point of this ridiculous tit-for-tat sniping? I applaud Dennis for all his other stands against the war, and I am certain Howard no longer believes we have nothing to fear about Bush. They are good people.

Why expend energy on the past when we have such grave danger facing us in the present and in the near future? I don't feel bad nor do I care that Clark -- or anyone -- voted for Reagan over 20 years ago. Let's face it, the vast majority of Americans voted for Reagan -- and I want every single one of them to be WELCOMED into our tent this year. The message to these voters -- and many of them are from the working class -- should not be, "You voted for Reagan? Well, to hell with you!" Every time you attack Clark for that, that is the message you are sending to all the people who at one time liked Reagan. If they have now changed their minds (just as Kucinich has done by going from anti-choice to pro-choice, and Dean has done by wanting to cut Medicare to now not wanting to cut it) ? and if Clark has become a liberal Democrat, is that not something to cheer?

In fact, having made that political journey and metamorphosis, is he not the best candidate to bring millions of other former Reagan supporters to our side -- blue collar people who have now learned the hard way just how bad Reagan and the Republicans were (and are) for them?

We need to take that big DO NOT ENTER sign off our tent and reach out to the vast majority who have been snookered by these right-wingers. And we have a better chance of winning in November with one of their own leading them to the promised land.

There is much more to discuss and, in the days and weeks ahead, I will continue to send you my thoughts. In the coming months, I will also be initiating a number of efforts on my website to make sure we get out the vote for the Democratic nominee in November.

In addition to voting for Wesley Clark, I will also be spending part of my Bush tax cut to help him out. You can join me, if you like, by going to his website to learn more about him, to volunteer, or to donate. To find out about when your state?s presidential primaries are, visit Vote Smart.

I strongly urge you to vote for Wes Clark. Let's join together to ensure that we are putting forth our BEST chance to defeat Bush on the November ballot. It is, at this point, for the sake of the world, a moral imperative.

Yours,

Michael Moore

[derby378]

107. Not QUITE everything...

We can't afford to elect a Democratic President who supports gun-grabbing, unless we want to hand control of Congress right back to the Repukes. The numbers do not lie - the Brady/VPC/Third Way approach to gun control will kill Democratic control of Congress.

[xkenx]

108. Clark's approach to guns will play in middle America and help flip red states.

He is a gun owner and hunter. He was 34 years in the military. What he says is that we need to remove loopholes like the gun show loophole. He approaches weapons designed only for mass killing in a sensible non-threatening way that resonates. He says, to paraphrase, "If you want to fire weapons like assault weapons whose only purpose is to slaughter lots of people, we have a place for you. It's called the army; feel free to sign up." Wes Clark has to be just about the least threatening Dem. to those folks. His uniform shields him from being noticed as a true progressive. If the Rethugs try to swiftboat him as a "librul," it just won't play in the minds of flippable red state voters. If they try to swiftboat him over his hero status from Vietnam or as a soft-on-terror Dem., there will see what General Smackdown looks like.

[derby378]

109. "Designed only for mass killing?!?"

You just lost all those "flippable red states" with that one statement all by itself. Either you support the Second Amendment, or you don't. It's just that simple.

[xkenx]

112. And which of the announced Dems. have said "I support the Second Amendment?"

Even if one does, the Republicans will swiftboat them with their histories, as they did hunter John Kerry.
You seem to think that the NRA party line is the one and only test for red state voters; I give red state voters more credit than that; talk to the parents of the Columbine kids. The NRA actually promoted responsible gun ownership before they wre taken over by right wingers years ago. And I (in capitals) didn't lose any states; I'm not running. My point about Wes Clark is that his history is such, he cannot be successfully be swiftboated.

By the way, here is the exact wording of the Second Amendment.

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The meaning of this amendment, as shown in the Federalist Papers covering the debates among the framers, was that, in cases of emergency, militias might need to be formed. Citizen-soldiers might have to quickly have access to firearms to participate in the militia's mission. However, the militia's activities were determined solely by the commanders, not by citizens going out to shoot up other citizens. Not the term "Well regulated." Never was there an intent for weapons or their use to be anything but under close control.

[derby378]

113. Two points...

(1) I'm not a member of the NRA, myself - I'm a progressive, pro-RKBA Democrat. I do have my differences with the NRA on some policies and issues. I would suggest, however, that the turning point for the NRA began in 1968 when the "adapted for sporting purposes" clause for firearms was written into law.

(2) If you check the website for Amendment II Democrats (http://www.a2dems.net), the exact wording of the Second Amendment is there for all to see. I put it up there myself. The term "well-regulated" means that there are regulations governing how the weapons can be used, where they can be used, under what conditions they can be used, and so on. You could even argue that "well-regulated" provides for a national registry to track who owns what, which is what you have in the Armed Forces, FBI, Secret Service, etc. But trying to ban firearms because of their mere appearance, or because of certain safety features? That's a no-no.

[xkenx]

114. You make my point. And who are you to say what's a no-no?

Sounds like, by your silence, you also agree that Wes Clark is the best Dem. to flip red states, which was the point of my posts.

[derby378]

115. Care to explain what you mean by "my silence?"

It isn't me who said it's a no-no. The 50,000,000 Americans who have to go without health insurance because of Republican policies since 1994 prove it's a no-no. The ever-increasing number of American troops who are dying in Iraq demonstrate that it's a no-no. The innocent Iraqis who have been tortured, raped, and murdered because Republicans seized the government also demonstrate that some actions in government, once you do them, have actual long-term repercussions that all Americans will suffer for. One of those actions just happens to be banning semi-automatic firearms because of certain safety features.

So yes, I still assert that Wes Clark will keep the red states red, not flip them. If he's willing to reassess his policy towards our Second Amendment rights, then he's got a chance to flip those red states like pancakes. Otherwise, no.

[xkenx]

117. Please name a Dem. whom you think can flip red states. I've stated my claim.

BTW, we seem to agree on so many aspects of your last post. I just don't believe that what has happened in the world is a result of a law passed to help reduce the number of psychos going out to obtain WMDs, the sole purpose of which are to slaughter other beings. Republican policies, ever since Reagan, have been to favor the corporations and the wealthy, but only GWB has taken to trashing the Constitution. And despite the current Democratic majorities in Congress, our elected Dem. representatives are still spineless when it comes to really confronting Bush. Wes Clark will bring the spine, the patriotism, the integrity, the respect for the Constitution to lead us out of this wilderness. Yet you knock him because he has the spine to not roll over for the NRA on their entire agenda. When will Dems. stop "eating their young?" There are plenty anti-war liberals out there who regularly trash Clark here, accusing him of being a militarist because he was a 4 star General. Clark is actually an anti-war progressive by his lengthy history. And BTW, since you're from Texas, please take note of who was requested to give the keynote speech at the Texas Democratic Convention last July. And who was the most requested surrogate to campaign in red states in 2006. One and the same--Wes Clark. Maybe they all know something about making inroads in red states that you don't.

[derby378]

120. I was there - saw Clark's speech at the TX Convention last year

Wesley Clark is a good man. He's obviously well-spoken and comes with a world of strong military experience.

For flipping red states, though, I'd pick Bill Richardson because of his diplomacy skills or (if he declares) Al Gore for his stance on environmental issues. Even Republicans like to fish, and they can't if there's no fish left...

[xkenx]

124. Rethugs everywhere mock Al Gore over the environment. That ain't gonna flip red states for him.

Have you watched Richardson lately? He doesn't seem to be handling stress very well, but he does have some good creds. BTW, Clark is an experienced diplomat. He participated heavily in the Dayton Accords. As SACEUR, he had to manage relationships among 19 member NATO nations. As someone said, "Try getting a few friends to pick a restaurant together, and appreciate Clark's skills as SACEUR." Take a look also on www.securingamerica.com where Clark has a 100 year vision which ties caring for the environment in with our national security.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

121. You're pro-RKB what As, exactly?

Suppose I want to own a bazooka or a RPG launcher, hell, a couple dozen of each. Should I be legally allowed to buy them?

[derby378]

123. See #122

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

125. So I guess you're all right with your neighbor buying 57 bazookas and 30 RPGs? -nt

[LanternWaste]

119. Yet each of the amendments has qualifiers, yes?

Yet each of the amendments has qualifiers, yes?

One could say, No yelling "bomb" on an airplane. Would the statment "Either you support the First Amendment, or you don't. It's just that simple" be just as valid?

If not, what are the relevant and precise differences?

[derby378]

122. That's a non-starter, especially in the current political climate

Once we restore some semblance of democracy to America, then we can talk "qualifiers" for our Constitutional rights.

[LanternWaste]

126. It seems you're implying...

It seems you're implying that it makes perfect sense to concentrate on the 2nd Amendment due to the upcoming election, but the 1st Amendment is a non-starter. Is that correct?

[NYCGirl]

104. Kick

[NYCGirl]

106. Father's Day kick!

[Uncle Joe]

111. Uncle's Day Kick.

:dem:

[Javaman]

116. What could have been...nt

[InvisibleTouch]

118. Too late to rec, but I can kick! n/t