Was at the car place getting the car serviced, and all of a sudden,

[lonestarnot]

the P.A. system broke into a flag saluting bloisterous voice of the National Anthem. I couldn't avoid it any place on the premises, as I was already outside sitting on the curb. Felt like I was in some natzi camp getting ready for the showers. Needless to say, I voiced my opinion on the matter to the management. Told them that I was not at a sporting event, funeral, union meeting, blah blah and asked him when Wagner was scheduled. Told them that the National Anthem blasting at the car dealership was nationalistic and a bit over the top and creepy. What do you think? :shrug:

[Horse with no Name]

1. yuck

We are headed down the slippery slope. I have a feeling that in the coming years, Americans are going to wish they had paid closer attention in History.

[lonestarnot]

2. Glad I am not the only shining star!

[swag]

3. I'm with Luis Bunuel: I don't even want to hear it at sporting events.

Of course some people would say that this makes me unpatriotic. To which I would reply: bullshit, it just makes me nonjingoistic and nonnationalistic.

Pseudopatriotism in defense of national anthems and plastic flags on antennae is no virtue.

[lonestarnot]

8. I could do without it there too, but then I don't go to sporting events,

so I don't have to be bothered with that. :toast:

[tbyg52]

21. Is Houston the only place

that has replaced "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" with "God Bless America" (at least the last time I was at a game)?

I was floored. I wouldn't stand, as it is not our national anthem. My husband was afraid I was going to get lynched.

[petronius]

51. I think pretty much every stadium did it after 9/11

However, my impression is they've mostly gone back, with the exception of the Yankees and maybe some others...

[Capn Sunshine]

54. Doesn't Boston do a Neil Diamond song?

They always were patriotic there.:hi:

[AllieB]

72. "Sweet Caroline"

:-)

And most of the fans know the words.

[siligut]

91. Some people put their hand over their heart.

At Mariner’s games they still play both. National Anthem before the game then GBA and “take me out. . .” for the 7th inning stretch. Good time to go for a beer.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

22. Everyone recycle their plastic flags..... you could save the

life of a plastic tree somewhere out there in the great unknown.

[Scout1071]

31. I took a friend from England to a sporting event and he couldn't

believe that it is played before every single sporting event in the US. He thought that to be very Nationalistic and a little creepy. He said they only do it before international matches. After that day, I've looked at it differently.

[Clark2008]

40. You might enjoy this"

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/020426.html

1. Don't ever boo when they play another country's national anthem. Especially when it sounds so much better than ours.

2. When selecting a person to sing the national anthem, teams should first make sure the person can actually sing.

Everyone ripped Roseanne for her screeching rendition, but whose idea was it to put the microphone in the hands of a nasal-voiced comedian anyway?

Granted, Whitney Houston can't sing before every game, but that doesn't mean teams still can't set a high standard. Always check the résumé first. Lead baritone from the city opera company's production of Wagner's Ring Cycle -- yes. Adam Sandler -- no.

Not that a résumé is any guarantee. The Mariners once scheduled a Grammy Award winner to sing the national anthem, only to find out during the singer's performance that she suffered from Tourette's syndrome, and they listened in horror when she sprinkled her rendition with uncontrolled curses.

3. Keep it brisk. It's one thing to take a moment for the national anthem. It's quite another to listen to a diva drawing it out longer than FDR's term in office.

4. Mix it up: The last time I checked, the Constitution does not require that all teams must always play the "Star Spangled Banner" before a game (although I think Orrin Hatch is working on that one). So why do it? If they must play some patriotic song, regularly sprinkle in "America the Beautiful" or "My Country 'Tis of Thee" or This Land is Your Land." Anything to keep the moment from becoming what it almost always is, a mere routine.

And finally:

5. Before singing, take off your cap and check your wallet for a voter registration card. Hey, it's nice you feel proud when you sing "God Bless America." It would be even nicer if you had actually voted for something in the past decade besides your favorite web-gem.

[tammywammy]

45. That's pretty funny

:)

[lonestarnot]

52. Clark2008 that is great! Thanks for posting it!

:applause:

[teriyaki jones]

4. I share your creep-itude

I wish more people truly understood the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Or jingoism.

tj

[lonestarnot]

6. creep-itude!

ROFLOL! :rofl:

[teriyaki jones]

12. Oh good--I was afraid it wouldn't translate in print

The english language doesn't contain the right words for every occasion, so sometimes you have to create them.

tj

[lonestarnot]

19. perfect creation!

:toast:

[donsu]

9. kick

nt

[rodeodance]

5. wonder if they will report you to the DHS>

[lonestarnot]

7. Prolee. I'll have a word or two for them when they come for me!

[Lars39]

10. Was this a national/regional chain, or a private garage?

That would have given me the creeps, too. Good for you for speaking out. :thumbsup:

[lonestarnot]

13. National chain nationalists.

[Jane Austin]

11. I think it's disrespectful of the National Anthem

to blast it at a car wash. Sort of like flying one of those enormous flags.

That's not love of country; that's advertising.

I'll bet you're not the only one who didn't like being assaulted by the loud music. Anybody trying to have a conversation or who was making a phone call would be annoyed, I would think.

[lonestarnot]

16. Funny thing is, I was outside to escape the chatter of the no news on

the boob tube sitting on the curb observing this huge flag waving in the breeze and wondering what I thought about such a huge flag. I was thinking the flag was very beautiful about the time the P A system assaulted me.

[StarryNite]

39. Enormous flags

That's what the car dealerships around here put up. They try to outdo each other with the size of their flags. It seems odd to fly them over a parking lot filled with Japanese vehicles anyway. They also put up those giant balloons in the shape of Uncle Sam, gorillas, space aliens, and anything else you can think of. :+

[City Lights]

14. Eeewww. That would creep me out, too.

Good for you for voicing your opinion. How did they respond?

[lonestarnot]

17. Assured me that they would tell the person that "could take care of it."

[tammywammy]

15. Wierd

I can tell you, I work at a car dealership and that shit would never fly here.

[lonestarnot]

24. pretty ridiculous, and I watched a salesman pick his nose in public.... ack!

[tammywammy]

26. Indeed!

Here, they'll fart in public but not in front of customers...and it's more like they'll fart in someone else's office and run out quickly. :eyes: I'm used to it, I think it's what happens when there 20 guys working together.

[lonestarnot]

36. OMG

Do they do dating service on the side?

[tammywammy]

41. Actually a few are really good guys

I think it's just a guy thing, that as a female eludes me.

[chaska]

18. Smart business people stay out of politics...

There are businesses I still won't patronize after all that Gulf War I, war as sporting event bullshit.

[lonestarnot]

27. Good on chaska!

[Quantess]

20. I'll bet....

..as soon as you drove away, "the management" cursed you as a daggone-blame-America-first, traitorous, flag-pissing, LIBERAL! Then I bet another guy chimed in and said "what's his/her problem with the American anthem?"

I don't think you should have voiced your complaint. They probably just think you're a jerk, now. Definitely don't go back.

[lonestarnot]

28. And I'll bet that you are wrong. I will go back and I will again rant if it happens again.

[Quantess]

38. But by returning for more business, you are rewarding their behavior.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think any liberal would say why do you hate 'Murica?
I just think that your complaining to the management about the national anthem being played may strike the management as....intolerant.

[lonestarnot]

53. I am intolerant of nationalism yes.

[CatholicEdHead]

23. Being a private business it is their right to do it

But it will drive away many customers. I would expect they would want everyone to buy and get a car serviced, not just the right leaning. They are no more patriotic than those who do not play it.

[lonestarnot]

30. Zactly, and I'll bet someone is going to get crap for doing it.

[tbyg52]

25. Do you know if

it was just once at a certain time, or did they do it at intervals throughout the day? Either one is weird for a business; I'm just curious.

[lonestarnot]

32. I didn't ask about repetiveness of the practice, just told them I didn't like it.

[swag]

29. Here's an interesting study on "patriotic messages" and restaurant tipping

The Effect of Patriotic Messages on Restaurant Tipping

John S. Seiter
Robert H. Gass
2005

ABSTRACT: This study compared the effectiveness of 2 types of patriotic messages with a warmth/ ingratiation message and a control condition on restaurant tipping. Two female food servers waited on 100 parties eating dinner. When diners were finished with their meals, servers left them 1 of 4 messages on their checks: "Have a Nice Day," "God Bless America," "United We Stand," or no message. Results indicated that parties who received the "United We Stand" message left significantly higher tips than did those receiving no message or the "Have a Nice Day" message. No other significant differences were found. These results and their implications are discussed.

[lonestarnot]

33. Very interesting.

I would question the study since it was conducted in Utah.

[swag]

34. Good point.

I'll write to the profs to see where the restaurants were.

[lonestarnot]

35. cool, will watch for your findings.

[swag]

42. Haven't heard from the profs yet, but it seems that this study

was indeed conducted in northern Utah:

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2005/11/how_to_get_bigg.html

so you're right, that might have just skewed the results.

[lonestarnot]

55. Yeah did you see Donsu's post re AZ and UT re polygamy prosecutions?

[Mika]

37. What? No christian invocation?

At Dolphins games in Miami they have a christian invocation as well as the anthem, pre game.


I don't go to Miami Dolphins games any more because of that (among other things).

[onethatcares]

43. I'm waiting to hear

"But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore
It's already overcrowded from your dirty fucking war.
Jesus don't like killin, no matter what the reason for,
and your flag decal won't get you into heavennnnnnnnnn annnnnyyyymore".

Dodododo, dododo, dododo da

[MADem]

44. It wasn't a car wash on a military base, was it?

You get treated to the tune twice a day, when the flag goes up, and when it comes down--they DO give you a warning, though, so you can run for cover and not get stuck standing and saluting in a parking lot halfway to your car....

I don't mind it at baseball games, though. I kind of like the last line of the song there:

...laaaaaand of the freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, and the hoooooome ooooof

theeeeeee ....

brave PLAY BALL!!!!!

[lonestarnot]

56. Nope. Had my fill of that when I was in. I'm out and I plan to stay that way.

[mnhtnbb]

46. I can barely stand the national anthem at sports events any more

I'm tired of war-mongering, and that song is a celebration of a moment
in war.

[lonestarnot]

57. Yep. Almost a mockery of 4th of July coming up.

[momster]

47. Before Every Swimming Competition

in my daughter's local league, they play the Nat. Anthem. They didn't used to...when she first joined as a sprite in summer 2000, they just jumped in the water. Now it's the S-S-B and the Pledge. I'm kind of surprised they don't troop the colors and shoot off a cannon too. I really doubt it does much to instill love of country but what do I know about brainwashing young 'uns? I know the guy who pushed for the patriotic stuff...he drives (go on, guess) a big 20 mpg SUV, works for a multi-national corp, and hoses down his driveway and sidewalk instead of using a broom. He's a Murikan all the way, with tears in his eyes when he hears that song. But actually *do* something to improve the country...away with you, you Communist!

[lonestarnot]

58. LOL!

[hfojvt]

48. so we have 46 DUers who hate the national anthem?

How sad. :patriot:

It's not a Republican, or a warrior song. It doesn't belong to the military industrial complex. Being part of the band and a musician/singer, I always liked it as a song.

What I think is odd, is going to Kiwanis or the County Democrats meeting or the Credit Union's annual meeting and saying the "Pledge of Allegiance". That just seems grade-schoolish to me. Plus I cannot say the 'with liberty and justice for all' part when I know it isn't true.

[swag]

49. That's kind of an odd interpretation of what has been expressed here.

And given your reservations about the Pledge, one wonders how you feel about "the land of the free and the home of the brave."

Let along some of the other lyrics:

O say, can you see, by the dawn’s early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight
O’er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets’ red glare, the bombs bursting in air
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen thro’ the mist of the deep,
Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream
’Tis the star-spangled banner. Oh! long may it wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war’s desolation,
Blest with vict’ry and peace, may the Heav’n-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our Trust"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

[hfojvt]

62. is it? Or did I just over-count by 39?

"1. Yuck

3. I don't even want to hear it at sporting events.

4. "I share your creep-itude" (at hearing the SSB)

14. Eeew. That (playing the national anthem) would creep me out too.

15. Weird ... that sh*t (playing the National Anthem) would never fly here

18. Smart business people stay out of politics (playing the anthem is political?)

46. I can barely stand the national anthem at sports events any more"


I don't see how that is an 'odd interpretation' even though I did not do an exact count and some of the posts were about farting or nose-picking car salesmen.

I am quite aware of the first verse. Not sure if the other verses count, since they are never sung outside of a church, and extremely rarely inside. The Nazarene Hymnal I just checked only has 3 verses listed.

[swag]

65. Well, overcounting by (at least) 39, for starters, counts for me as an

odd interpretation of what was expressed here.

[lonestarnot]

59. I didn't say I hate the fucking anthem. There is a time and a place for everything.

And I didn't find the car dealership the place, and it's not 4th of July so it wasn't the time either.

[hfojvt]

63. terms of endearment

Personally I can watch a movie I like or listen to a song I like any time and anywhere. It is only when I am hearing Led Zeppelin or Mick Jagger that I think 'why the fu$% are they playing that here? and now?'

[lonestarnot]

77. Go ahead on. No one is stopping you. Yet. LOL

[HCE SuiGeneris]

61. The anthem invokes a feeling of guilt and shame

when trumpeted garrulously in a car dealer's parking lot. Used in this manner, it is nothing more than a cheesy marketing tool to invoke affinity with the business. Blatant commercialism in its most destructive form. It is not the anthem itself, it is its callous use that is incredibly offensive.

[hfojvt]

64. guilt and shame?

Nobody said anything about commercialism. It was 'I cannot stand to hear it'

Too many are seeing it as a Republican anthem and America as a Republican Country. I refuse to accept that. As U2 said about 'Helter Skelter' "Charles Manson tried to take this song. We want it back." I say the same thing about my country and my anthem.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

66. Using the flag to promote a commercial relationship is illegal.

This should extend to the use of the anthem here. Guilt and shame -- for me it is a pathetic guise, and makes me ashamed of the all too frequent use of nationalism to invoke a false identity with the perpetrator. The false pride summoned up in these events is embarrassing. It is gross.

[momster]

71. Of Course, I don't hate the National Anthem

It chokes me up when I hear it at the 4th or when we sing it on Memorial Day to commemorate those serving in the military. What I don't like is that they are trivializing it by playing it before every little competition -- my kid isn't swimming for the greater good of the USA but 'cause she likes to swim (not to mention the fact that not every member of her team is an American citizen). I just can't get behind indiscriminate use of symbols that used to mean a lot -- I don't like clothes made from flags or the fashionable use of camouflage in wartime, either. I don't like sales brochures that tie 'big, big savings' to Memorial Day. And it amazes me that those people who make the biggest fuss about their patriotism are the ones who do stupid stuff like leave the flag up all night and in all weathers, or don't dispose of it properly when it becomes ragged. Or who say that patriotism means no dissent, no doubts, no questions.

[hfojvt]

75. note, you were the 47th post

When I began my post, there were only 46 posts in the thread. Hence, my use of the inaccurate number 46. Just meant that I was too lazy to count the number of negative comments, or the number of people. The total was 100%, except for Chaska, who said it was political. Nobody had said anything about trivilizing it. The comments were on the order of "I hate hearing it". I'm used to hearing it almost every night when the radio station went off the air at 2 AM and I worked nights. Plus, I have the Boston version on my ipod. It isn't sacred to me, just one of my favorite songs.

[lonestarnot]

78. No one here said they hate the Anthem. You were also apparently to lazy to get the point.

[mnhtnbb]

74. Not a military song? Check the history.

The Star-Spangled Banner
—Francis Scott Key, 1814

O say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen thro' the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


On Sept. 13, 1814, Francis Scott Key visited the British fleet in Chesapeake Bay to secure the release of Dr. William Beanes, who had been captured after the burning of Washington, DC. The release was secured, but Key was detained on ship overnight during the shelling of Fort McHenry, one of the forts defending Baltimore. In the morning, he was so delighted to see the American flag still flying over the fort that he began a poem to commemorate the occasion. First published under the title “Defense of Fort M'Henry,” the poem soon attained wide popularity as sung to the tune “To Anacreon in Heaven.” The origin of this tune is obscure, but it may have been written by John Stafford Smith, a British composer born in 1750. “The Star-Spangled Banner” was officially made the national anthem by Congress in 1931, although it already had been adopted as such by the army and the navy.


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0194015.html

[krispos42]

50. Destruction by repetition

Repeat something enough, it becomes meaningless instead of special. Witness the propoganda of the Administration and all those useless slogans they created and how well it works now. I mean, even at military ceremonies, the soldiers only applaud for Shrubster at the beginning and end of the speech now because all of the 'applause lines' are meaningless now.

Even if the customers only hear it once in a while, the employees there are hearing it all the time, and as such it is destroying THEIR sense of patriotism.

Me, I hear it rarely enough that thinking of the Stars and Stripes waving defiantly in the face of the Royal Navy's bombardment still gives me the chills.

But try listening to any overly-played Top-40 pop-music stuff nowadays. How about "Complicated" by Avril Lavigne? Make you want to change the channel at all?

[lonestarnot]

60. Good point.

[elehhhhna]

67. You;d make a crappy Nazi, Lonestar.

You can't even spell it. LMAO

[lonestarnot]

79. Woops! LOL Yeah best compliment ever!

:loveya: :hug: :pals:

[elehhhhna]

82. anytime

;)

[Rosemary2205]

68. Well I ain't ashamed of being a flag waver.

I like the national anthem and the flyovers and the flag waving and get teary eyed when I sing or national songs.

But I don't mind if you hate it. :)

[lonestarnot]

80. You also missed the point.

[Rosemary2205]

90. Actually no, I didn't.

But appearantly you did miss mine.

[lonestarnot]

93. You missed mine first.

[OnionPatch]

69. How bout all those car dealers

with flags flying from every vehicle. One down the road from me has a flag that's literally as big as the footprint of my house flying overhead that you can see from miles away and smaller ones on every vehicle and fencepost. Now I'm not saying people shouldn't have the freedom to do these things, it just always makes me question, what does a car dealership have to do with patriotism? It's not the county courthouse, it's not the state building. They don't just do this on a special patriotic holidays like Independence Day or Flag Day, I don't understand the reason for it at all and in fact, to me it cheapens our flag when every yahoo has a raggety one flying from his car or hanging over his gas station or car dealership next to the "50% OFF CLEARANCE!!!" sign. When businesses use the ultra-nationalism hype to try to attract my business, they actually drive me away. They aren't a damn bit more patriotic than I am but I don't need to shout it from the rooftops to prove it to anyone and I sure wouldn't use it to help myself make a quick buck.

[lonestarnot]

81. Thank you Onion Patch!

Well said!

[swag]

70. It's interesting that so many of these people who practice

anthem and flag worship are allegedly Christian, violating their own religion's second commandment taboos against idolatry.

[lonestarnot]

83. Isn't that interesting! Lives of through the looking glass. Reminds me of the Church Lady.

Remember her?

[Nikki Stone1]

73. Did they get the Wagner reference?

My guess is no, but then again....

[lonestarnot]

84. hmmmm no. I'm sure not.

[Nikki Stone1]

92. I often tell people that thanks to globalization we are all Nibelungen now, but

I'm sure that just makes people shake their heads and go, "What?"

:)

[Balbus]

76. Do some people spend their whole day looking for something

to get outraged about? It's a fucking song for crying out lout. Get your car fixed, go the fuck home and put on whatever music you like.

[lonestarnot]

85. I spend moments of every fucking waking day in protest of some aspect of this administration.

So you fuck the fuck off!

[LibDemAlways]

86. I completely understand your point of view and

applaud, in particular, the statement that you spend a portion of everyday "in protest of some action of this administration."

It's because of the ultra-nationalist "homeland", uber patriot mindset wrought by the "You're either with us or against us" mentality of the chimp crime family that gives rise to inappropriate playing of the national anthem at a car repair shop in the first place. So you are well within your rights to be put off by it.

No matter what you choose to rant about on GD, there are those on this board who will belittle or demean your opinion. I started a thread Thursday about how I was pissed that the chimp's name and pawprint appears on an academic award my daughter received at school. There were some who understood my point of view, but I was surprised by the number who chastised me about it. There are apparently DUers who would proudly display in their home a document signed "George W. Bush...President of the United States." Who knew?

[lonestarnot]

87. Yeah they're here. LOL

They don't get it is all. They just don't get it. Trolls are one thing, just don't get its are another.

[LibDemAlways]

88. One poster told me I was petty and consumed by

irrational hatred. Uh, for not wanting the name of a war criminal on a wall in my home? You are so right....."Just don't get its" are part of the problem.

[lonestarnot]

89. My kid got the same crap in primary school. I think we made a ceremonial

firepit. LOL He hated it too! LOL