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Whiskey Fire: Most of us who opposed the war did so because it was OBVIOUSLY A STUPID IDEA!

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 01:04 PM
Original message
Whiskey Fire: Most of us who opposed the war did so because it was OBVIOUSLY A STUPID IDEA!
Edited on Mon Jun-18-07 01:04 PM by BurtWorm
For those in the "center" and on the right, that bears repeating: "it was OBVIOUSLY A STUPID IDEA!"

http://whiskeyfire.typepad.com/whiskey_fire/2007/06/buzzards_and_dr.html

Buzzards and Dreadful Crows

An annoyance: any discussion of any complex issue in terms of abstract taxonomy at the expense of a careful account of specific people, places, times, motivations, and events. This gives me hives when it pops up in, say, literary criticism, but it really pisses me off in discussions of foreign policy, where the consequences of fucking up are a lot of dead people.

Take this bit of nonsense from a site called "Militant Moderates," of all fucking things. The author is responding to this post from Ezra Klein. There the young Mr Klein, who supported the Iraq war when he was even younger and should have been doing something more useful, like smoking a lot of grass, points out that the "liberal hawks" who pompously and thoroughly botched the whole "should we invade Iraq" question, are refusing to account for their screwup in any serious way -- but are instead huffing and puffing on the question of Iran. "Just because we were wrong in the past doesn't mean we are ontologically wrong," they intone: they are washed in the blood and spittle of Marty Peretz or some shit like that, and their sins washed clean.

... Ezra Klein is perfectly right to judge people writing on foreign policy primarily on their stances towards real world issues. A discussion of "underlying beliefs or theories" in this context is absurd, given the horror of the Iraq debacle. If your "underlying beliefs or theories" made you stick your dick in the blender, even "reluctantly," and you haven't thoroughly reassessed these concepts, I frankly don't want to hear your advice about what to do with the weed whacker.

The essay is crazy. The guy thinks the primary debate about foreign policy is between "pacifists" and "militarists" -- as if the primary reason anyone opposed the war in Iraq was from a position of committed pacifism. Well, maybe a small minority did, and good for them. But most of us opposed the war in Iraq because it was obviously a stupid fucking idea. The administration was clearly spouting bullshit about why it was necessary and how much it would cost in money and lives.

The self-declared "liberal hawks" of the period were the ones suffering from a pragmatism deficit. A failure to recognize this, coupled with a defense of "liberal hawk" based on the assertion that the reified term "liberal hawkism" is a fundamentally pragmatic "philosophy," is absurd and obnoxious.

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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. "A stupid fucking idea"
bush and his band of pirates know such things are an easy sell to those who wave flags made in China. And the ignorant base is proud to have supported a liar because he lied for our own good. Oh, and some scoff at the notion that conservatism is a mental disease.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. One SFI After Another ---What a Legacy!
This will be known as the SFI era.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Are neo-cons being renamed "liberal hawks" now?
Anyone who didn't recognize that invading Iraq was obviously a stupid fucking idea either made a lot of money from it, was a cowardly weasel, or was too stupid to be allowed out alone.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Believe it or not, there is a distinction.
Liberal hawks are those who are useful idiots to the neocons.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. By gawd "we" got to get them WMD
and we got to fight terrorism and we got to surge and we got to keep them over there; and we got to support the troops (right after next weekends barbecue.) I'm mightily impressed with the fucking bravery of "we." Conservatives are idiots who don't deserve their citizenship. Plain. And Simple.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. No arguments here.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. "ontologically wrong"?
They are stupid.
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