Abu Ghraib: The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2005/07/25/abughraib/index.html

The hidden horrors of Abu Ghraib

Last Friday was the deadline set by a federal judge for the Pentagon to release a stash of photographs and videotapes showing graphic proof of the abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. The government ignored the deadline. Instead, in a secret brief filed with the court, it argued -- as it has done ever since the ACLU filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the photos last year -- that it shouldn't have to release the evidence.

Nobody knows what the government's latest argument is, but it may have something to do with the hit President Bush's flowery rhetoric may take if pictures of "freedom on the march" are shown to the world. As Editor & Publisher points out in a nice compilation of public comments about the secret images, we haven't yet seen the worst of Abu Ghraib. Not by a long shot.

Donald Rumsfeld said last year that the images in question are "hard to believe," and that what they show "can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane." And here's what Lindsey Graham, the Republican senator from South Carolina, said of the pictures after they were screened for members of Congress last year: "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience... We're talking about rape and murder -- and some very serious charges."

Seymour Hersh, the New Yorker writer who was one of the first reporters to see the pictures, has offered even more graphic descriptions. At an ACLU convention last year, Hersh said: "Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out."

[Hubert Flottz]

1. K&R

Gawd's work is being done with your tax dollars...Thank's to W it's working.

[aquart]

2. No one will care until you show the footage. SHOW IT.

[jasmeel]

6. Call/write your senators and reps and demand these images

be released and a special prosecutor be appointed!! This is disgusting!!

[redqueen]

36. The fact that we have to ask...

I really worry if it's too late.

Why wouldn't dems be all over this? Why?

*sigh*

[BeHereNow]

10. You are SO right- the power of the visual. Most effective form of communication to effect change

Hitler and company knew of the power of the visual.
He actually banned certain artists and curated
a show of "Degenerate Artists," as he referred to them
and their work.
http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/arts/artDegen.htm

The BFEE too understands the power of the visual-
that is why Hersh states that the White House is
terrified of the torture images being released for
public consumption.

Here is to hoping SOME ONE, SOME WHERE
has a copy and a plan.

America would FREAK if they saw what had been
done in their name and the whole house of cards
would fall into the sand it is built on.

BHN

[WinkyDink]

51. WOULD "America" "freak"? I don't think so. I think many would say, "So? Look what the TERRORISTS

did!"

[HCE SuiGeneris]

3. Kick

Does the MMM consider these actions worth reporting?

[Solly Mack]

4. k/r

[Bozita]

5. CNN interviewed Seymour Hersh for less than three minutes

LESS THAN THREE MINUTES!

This was about 1:55pm EDT.

[ninkasi]

22. As opposed to how many minutes

on the Paris Hilton story? This is disgusting.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

28. say, how is Paris doing, anyway?

any more news from her mummy and daddyums?

Why confuse our heads with bad news, when we can salivate over boring, thin, blond spoiled brats?

[Supersedeas]

45. Conservatives News or Nuthin'

[mmonk]

7. Hang it up.

The public in general is not going to learn about it, and the press isn't going to cover it and there will be no accountability. That's the reality we all live in especially with no impeachment hearings.

[Golden Raisin]

8. I don't mean to make light of this hideous tragedy

but if a white, blond, American girl had disappeared at Abu Ghraib we'd have 24/7 major media coverage. The Bush government will not release the Abu Ghraib torture material and our mainstream media will not show it. Hell, they won't even show the flag-draped coffins of our soldiers.

[Disturbed]

9. The Congress, DOD, Media & Busholii Regime are

all complicit. When the photos first were shown on TV, the worst War Crimes were ommited. This made it seem that real torture was not practiced only humiliation of Detainees. Sure. that was disgusting but the actual brutal torture was glossed over. A few lower level perps were prosecuted and that was to be the end of the case. All of the above were complicit in glossing the real situation over for their own purposes.

[MissWaverly]

11. turn it over to the ICC

let them decide what to do, I am so tired of this brutality being excused, it is not business as usual.

[cassiepriam]

12. Wonder if the public will care?

Since we are not talking about rich white blond girls as victims.

[MedleyMisty]

13. Personally, I've come to the point where I think

that if you sat every American down and forced them to see the horrible stuff, some would cheer, some would close their eyes and go on and never say anything about it but maybe feel a bit uncomfortable and might deal with it by lashing out and calling anyone who criticized it un-American and all that, and most would be like, "Whatever. Anyone got popcorn? Like OMG, did you hear about Paris?"

Don't mind me - feeling extreme bitter hatred towards the human species right now. I swear I'm not from this planet.

[cassiepriam]

Rule of thirds

One third would think it was all OK.
One third would not like it.
One third could care less.

PS I am hoping that I am not part of the human species.
Wish that mankind would evolve already.

[Virginia Dare]

31. If that were true, I don't think they would be going to such lengths

to hide this from us. I think if the real truth and proof of this matter were to be factually presented this would be a true wake up call for most Americans, something those that hold the true power in this country sincerely don't want.

[cassiepriam]

42. I hope you are correct. That would be wonderful if Americans woke up.

[cassiepriam]

15. dup delete

[undergroundpanther]

26. Don't feel bad

I hate psychopaths authoritarian and narcissistic bullies too,and humanity is just disgusting in it's evil.Disgusting in it's by standing and denial.
I am not from this world either. I can't stand living here.Trapped.
I wish for death to come soon.I want out.
You aren't alone in your feeling. I feel it too.

"I am not now the man I was. I have been born again in Mind, and the bodily shape which was mine before has been put away from me. I am no longer an object colored and tangible, a thing of spatial dimensions. I am now alien to all this, and to all that You perceive when You gaze with bodily eyesight. To such eyes as yours, my son, I am not now visible. - /Tat./ Father, You have driven me to raving madness ..."
CH, Libellus XIII, 4.

Tell me about it..

Hooray!! by Snog

I got a notion but the notion is wrong.
I got an idea but the idea has gone.
I got a message but my message is wrong.
Can't keep my eyes from the dying sun.

Hooray!!, I say for the end of the world.
Hooray!!, I say for the end of it all.

Hurry-on, madness.
Hurry-on, disease.
Hurry-on, insanity.
Hurray-on, please...
Hurry-on, the bomb.
Hurry-on, the plague.
Hurry-on, disaster.
Hurry-on, the rage.

Clean the slate.
Turn the page.
The final breath of the final age.

Don't wonder. Don't fear.
Peace at last will be here.

Hooray!!, I say for the end of the world.
Hooray!!, I say for the end of it all.

Hurry-on, the void.
Hurry-on, the end.
Hurry-on, abyss.
Hurry-on, my friend.

The final day, the final chore.
The age of shopping no more.
All the hassle, all the sweat.
All the boredom, all the mess.

Hooray!!, I say for the end of the world.
Hooray!!, I say for the end of it all...

One way ticket to the Womb by Snog

Maybe you're happy when you're asleep
maybe this misery dwells just in me
but id like to share my pain with you
yes id like to share this pain with you

i want a one way ticket back to the womb
i want to rejoin my ancestors, please make it soon

maybe your hope is paralyzed
maybe your joy is anesthetized
but the bane of this existence is clear
yes the bane will remain 'til we get out of here.

[peace13]

34. I feel your pain.

My brain seems to have lost it's elasticity. How can we go on trying to wake up those who refuse to see. Exhausted, frustrated and careening toward bitter, yep that's me. Peace to you, Kim

[Straight Shooter]

19. If Katrina didn't wake people up, nothing will wake people up.

You're talking about brown people. Nothing to see here. Move along. :sarcasm:

[Virginia Dare]

32. If nothing else, I think Katrina woke people up to the fact that..

Bush was a lying incompetent boob. His ratings have been on a steep and steady decline since then, and nothing he has said or done since has achieved a regain any credibility for him. But you're right, I think people were disgusted by it, but not galvanized to do anything much about it.

[Straight Shooter]

35. His ratings should have been in the toilet -- no, the sewer by now.

But he'll always have his Kool-Aid drinkers.

[Forkboy]

41. I think Katrina was a major turning point for Bush.

Up until then he was still relatively free from any negative comments in the press.They were still giving him a free pass on everything.Katrina changed that.Suddenly we had something to criticize Bush over that couldn't be tossed back in our face by calling us unpatriotic.And it was handled so badly that even the press couldn't hide Bush's incompetence.

Since then,like you say,his ratings have just gone lower and lower.

[cassiepriam]

44. I will never forget seeing all those bodies floating in the water.

And elderly dead still sitting in their wheelchairs.

[MountainLaurel]

49. And yet the Feds turned away help

From other nations and other states, using mercs from Blackwater.

[Octafish]

14. We are not NAZIs.

Bush and his enablers are NAZI, though.

Gen. Taguba was told to STFU and "Don't let the door hit you in the ass."

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/06/25/070625fa_fact_hersh

Thanks for the reminder, NNN0LHI.

[Virginia Dare]

29. We are just as bad as the Nazi enablers though..

for letting this happen. History won't treat us kindly for this episode I'm afraid.

[Vilis Veritas]

37. Disagree.

History will not treat those criminals (BFEE) who did this kindly.

Not all Germans were Nazi Enablers.

Not all US Citizens are Bush Enablers.

Peace.

[Virginia Dare]

38. That's true..

I certainly don't consider myself a Bush enabler, but history unfortunately doesn't sort out the good from the bad within a society.

[Vilis Veritas]

39. In my travels to China, you would be surprised by the kindness..

that was shown me by my fellow travellers from all over the world. I had many wonderful conversations with people from all walks of life and the only person who held me in contempt was a fellow American. He was mad at me for not supporting the Bush Regime.

We will all have to work hard to do as the Germans have done. It will be 'We The People' who must wipe off the dirt from this madman and his evil cabal. It will be our job to remind the world, that 'We The People' were not and never have been the Enablers. It will be our job to apologize and make amends for the sins of our leader.

Peace.

[Virginia Dare]

40. We definitely face an uphill climb...

I hope as you say all is not lost, we will have our work cut out for us. Demanding the truth is a good start.

[glitch]

16. Kick :( nt

[Canuckistanian]

17. This is all meaningless unless it's shown on mainstream TV

WE'VE known about it, but vast numbers of the public have no clue what was done "in their names".

Hey, if they can show Saddam's execution or the killing of Nick Berg, then why not this?

The American people deserve the WHOLE STORY, not just the "edited for political expediency" version of reality.

I know, I'm just a dreamer.

But I'm not the only one.

[IChing]

18. The Germans that lived around the death camps

were forced to see the horrors of the camps.

The grim reality of what others have done in our names is something
that we as a nation needs to be seen in prime-time. Otherwise
there will be another holocaust type denial game going on for years.

[Virginia Dare]

30. What's equally as disturbing is there are number of Senators..

both Republican and Democrat who have seen these pictures and are shielding the public from them, either by choice or by coercion.

[lovuian]

20. This is Bush Rumsfelds regime crimes

that Congress and other systems allowed Bush to carry on was negligence

I'm so mad about this American soldiers were inspirational and these men trashed our soldiers
!@#$%^&

[Poll_Blind]

21. I think the last we've seen of them was the Salon "leak" (that wasn't)

  I followed the Abu Ghraib thing really closely and the nail in the coffin, as far as I'm concerned, was the "leak" of some of the images to Salon Magazine. Now it wasn't actually a leak, per se, because although there were new disturbing images included there were far less leaked than actually existed, according to both the Taguba report (IIRC) and Seymour Hersh. As far as I'm concerned, Seymour Hersh is the gold standard when it comes to exposure to the worst of the media- which we still have not seen yet.

  But when the Salon thing happened the government just "validated" that they were from Abu Ghraib. Not, as many assumed, the entire collection. This is an important distinction to realize because it both bled off alot of the steam about the Abu Ghraib photos but also (because they were pruned) allowed the government to escape the worst of the excoriation, which they were due for allowing this to happen.

  I have no idea what the ACLU did or what Judge Alvin Hellerstein ultimately decided because I haven't followed it since a few months after the Salong thing, when I realized what was going on.

  Needless to say, the photos have not been released yet through the judicial system- which is a bottom line of sorts.

PB

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Com'on Survivor is on tonight!

In the minds of some of these sick ostriches they might even watch the abuse, thinking it was not real, if they made it part of Survivor.

Yep, this is how sick this country is

[EFerrari]

24. No words. K&R

[Nothing Without Hope]

25. Link to Hersh's recent New Yorker article on Taguba and the torture:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/06/25/070625fa_fact_hersh

[me b zola]

27. Many thanks for posting the link to the Hersh article

This is the first chance that I've had to read it. There truly are no words for the revulsion, anger, and saddness that accompanies this article.

[happygoluckytoyou]

33. WE HAVE OUR OWN FATHER-SON ACT...

AND THEY ARE RUNNING OUR COUNTRY...

-------- SUFFER ALL GOP FOR THE LACK OF LEADERSHIP AND GUTS THEY SHOWED DURING THIS PERIOD


-------- VOTE DEMOCRAT AND BUILD A SENATE THEY CANNOT TAKE DOWN


-------- SURE IT WAS BUSH AND THE GANG--- BUT THE DO NOTHING SENATE LED BY THE GOP WATCHED AND DID NOTHING...



-------- WE TAKE THE WHITE HOUSE.... AND ALL THE LITTLE HOUSES ALONG THE WAY...


------- THEN COME THE WAR CRIMES TRIALS

[NNN0LHI]

43. The statement Senator Graham made after viewing the tapes and photos is know as an excited utterance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excited_utterance

Excited utterance

An excited utterance, in the law of evidence, is a statement made by a person in response to a startling or shocking event or condition. The statement must be spontaneously made by the person (the declarant) while still under the stress of excitement from the event or condition. The subject matter and content of the statement must "relate to" event or condition. The statement could be a description or explanation (as required for present sense impression), or an opinion or inference. Examples include: "Look out! We're going to crash!" or "I think he's crazy. He's shooting at us!" The basis for this hearsay exception is the belief that a statement made under the stress is likely to be trustworthy and unlikely to be premeditated falsehoods. Compared to present sense impression, excited utterance is broader in scope for permitting a longer time lapse between event and statement, and a wider range of content in the statement.

Under the Federal Rules of Evidence, an excited utterance is a hearsay exception, and is admissible to prove the truth of the statement itself (e.g., in the case of the first quotation above, to prove that the vehicle the declarant was riding in was, in fact, about to crash). To prove the truth of the statement means to persuade the finder of fact to believe the affirmative sense of the statement. "Truth" here does not mean truth from the subjective point of view of the declarant or from the objective point of view of a reasonably prudent person. It simply refers to the affirmative assertion of the statement.

Spontaneity of the declarant is a key to admissibilty. An excited utterance does not have to be made at time of the startling event, but must be made while the declarant is still in a state of surprise or shock from the incident. The declarant's reflective powers must be stilled, meaning that, while making the statement, the declarant would not have had a chance to reflect upon the startling event, fabricate a purposefully false statement, and then say it. If the declarant is believed to have had time to reflect on the situation before making the statement, the statement would not be spontaneous and thus not an excited utterance. However, under certain circumstances, it is possible for days to have passed before the declarant fully reflects on the event, and "unstills" his or her reflective powers.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

46. The whole damn world knows this administration committed war crimes, YET,...

,...Congress FAILS, the Courts FAIL to hold it accountable.

It is just,...fucking pitiful!!!

I am starting to seriously doubt we will EVER earn back respect on the world stage.

[bobthedrummer]

47. Remember the mercenaries hired by BFEE-they will do anything for a buck

"CACI: Torture in Iraq, Intimidation at Home" by Joshua Holland 11-21-2006
http://alternet.org/waroniraq/44506/

[bobthedrummer]

48. A kick to the family jewels

[WinkyDink]

50. And yet this is all secret. People KNOW the truth, and yet there is no justice.