The movie "V for Vendetta"

[npincus]

I caught about 30 minutes before falling asleep, but taped it yesterday before it disappeared from HBO "On Demand". It is fascinating: I saw it as a commentary on the success of B*shco and co-conspirator FUX news/MSM to control the public, and people's complacency about this fascism that has infected our culture, and "V" an effert to shatter public conscousness and restore Democracy and rule of law. That's simplistic, I'm sure. I can't wait to watch the whole thing.

Anyone who saw the movie- your thoughts?

[SharonAnn]

1. People should not be afraid of their government, Government should be afraid of its people.

[ProfessorGAC]

2. Right Makes Might. Not The Other Way Around

That is the primary message i got.
GAC

[trumad]

3. Yeah--- I want to have Natalie Portmans baby.

[npincus]

4. LOL- so it is her!

I thought so. She has a gorgeous face, and is very petite.

[unpossibles]

13. jinkies, Scoob!

dang it....

[maxsolomon]

5. histrionic & overwrought

implausable plotting. who loaded the subway train?

still, very enjoyable. since we're essentially powerless to stop bush's fascist blundering (the congress won't save us), justice fantasies of this sort make our lives more tolerable.

would have actually liked to SEE hugo weaving.

[sakabatou]

8. It's from a comic book

In comic books, there are sounds in space since there is no air to get in the way. :D

[Goblinmonger]

16. The comic book was A LOT better

than the movie. Wider based theme. I think it was pretty clear that he was her dad in the comic book (and that works so well within the comic story). It's worth the read.

[LanternWaste]

22. I honestly don't think V was her actual father...

I saw (among others) the father-daughter type relation in the graphic novel, but I honestly don't think V was her actual father. I inferred through exposition and indirect references to particular years, that V was incarcerated approximately three years after the death of Evey's father

[Goblinmonger]

26. I will go back and skim to check that out.

I have only read it once, but thought it was a plausible timeline on that read.

[TrogL]

47. They're called 'graphic novels'

[unpossibles]

15. the reason the director chose not to show Weaving

is because he wanted the character to be above being one person, to serve as an archetype more than just a caped crusader.

Also, it is based on a comic book, which may explain some of the more absurd moments.

[NashVegas]

18. Ever Heard of the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment

That he got away with as much as he did, considering how much the UK spies on its people, is implausible, but it was still enjoyable.

I think it's important that it was set in the London, where 2 million people came out to protest the coming war with Iraq; Europeans are less apathetic about and afraid of their governments than we are here. But don't worry, we're working to change that.

[hippiechick]

6. ... except that it was originally written under the Thatcher regime ...

... and contains a much more global message than being aimed purely at Dimson.

[mainegreen]

7. It was alright, but the 'V' speech was great.

[Jim Warren]

9. My wife just watched it last night also

My son and I when it came out.

Verdict

She-yeah, kinda interesting
Me-appreciated the message though a bit like a graphic novel
18yo son-hated it.

Still though, ya gotta love the lasting iconography of the Fawkes mask.

[moggie]

10. Is that what it's called over there?

Or were you so impressed that you can't even get the title right? ;-)

[npincus]

11. LOL- no, just a senior moment

though I'm not a senior. Noted and corrected, sir.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. I thought it was pandering shite of first magnitude

Oh, so the people are supposed to rise up against the fascist government?

Wow. There's a real lesson in political courage...:eyes:

The problem is not necessarily that the government is too repressive. It's that the social system is too expressive. It would be easy enough work if the simple battle between free expression and social repression was the mode of power in society. But it ain't. The incitement to expression is precisely one of the ways that we're "enslaved." So a film that imagines liberation as expression is feel-good enough, I suppose, in that it plays into our hegemonic notions of expressive freedom combating repressive government (or whatever). When power actually hooks you in by encouraging your free expression, however, such a film is merely another in a series of hegemonic productions that ties us more securely to prevailing systems of power.

I thought V was a pack of liberal claptrap.

[itcfish]

38. Liberal Crap???

I guess you just didn't get it. That is why our nation is in such a sorry state.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Yeah...I don't agree with you

So I couldn't possibly understand the ponderous cliche that was V for Vendetta. I'm so incredibly stupid that I didn't get the very very "rebellious" message that we've otherwise been fed as an absolutely dominant belief since we were old enough to walk. Right. You got me.

Fucking puke all over that asinine film.

And I didn't say "Liberal Crap." I said liberal (small l) claptrap, and I'm using both those terms in the classical sense.

Do you know why they teach Orwell in high schools? Because the "individual against the oppressive state" is a remarkably effective form of power over the individual. It's the same reason why the mind-numbingly boring V for Vendetta passed the filters in the studio system. So we could all feel good about how rebellious we are, which is precisely when we're under the thumb of social power most completely. The $8.50 for the ticket - almost assured since so many people would mistake this deadening repetition of power as some laughable form of "rebellion" against power, and therefore "express" themselves by seeing the imbecilic film multiple times - doesn't hurt either...

I liked V for Vendetta better the first time I saw it. When it was called Turk 182. It was still an utter cliche, but at least it wasn't pretentiously so.

[shadowknows69]

60. Well said

I don't agree completely but holy shit well said AM.


Turk 182 was the bomb yo!

[Mythsaje]

14. Both my wife and I enjoyed it...

It was worth the trip to the theater.

That says a lot right there.

Implausible, perhaps. But the underlying message was good. They only have as much power as we're willing to give them. In the end.

[NoPasaran]

17. It's a movie based on a comic book

It should not be mistaken for a political manifesto.

[ChicagoRonin]

19. Not a manifesto, but . . .

I do believe that pulp culture is frequently a reflection of how the populace (or sections of the populace) view the state of the world. Even if adapted from an older work (such as an old comic), the tone and execution tends to say a lot about the times.

Some quick thoughts on recent pop films and possible underlying messages.

1) The X-Men movies: fear of prejudice from the general populace, distrust of government agencies and corrupt individuals, also a warning against radical elements on the left (Magneto?).

2) V for Vendetta: Distrust of government, criticism of the use of fear and propaganda to manipulate the population, demand for individuals to take action in the face of corruption.

3) Batman Begins: Fear of encroaching urban decay and crime, distrust of existing bodies (ex: government, law-enforcement) to solve problems. Ultimately, in terms of Batman's vigilante actions, the film actually seems to advocate a right-wing view.

4) 28 Weeks Later: Failure of established bodies (US Military, government, etc.) to adequately deal with large-scale disasters, fear of the effects of disproportionate and indiscriminate application of military force.

Nothing really profound. It's just like the way sci-fi films of the 50s played off of fears of communistic takeover or nuclear war, and 60s and 70s sci-fi and horror had anti-pollution messages.

[Hippo_Tron]

44. Batman Begins isn't a right wing view by any means

One of the most important things that Bruce Wayne learns in that movie is the difference between vengeance and justice, which is something that right wingers have an impossible time separating. Lucius Fox's line about "A soldier's life isn't worth 100 grand" couldn't be any less subtle of a stab at the Bush administration.

The idea is that Bruce Wayne wants to create a world where vigilantes like Batman are no longer needed. The purpose of Batman is to inspire the good people and make the bad people live in fear.

[Seedersandleechers]

20. What I got out of it was

If you don't have freedom act like terrorist and blow everything up

[Hippo_Tron]

41. I don't think V is supposed to be the character that people should emulate

I think that the message is that you are supposed to become like Evey and all of the other ordinary citizens who ultimately decide to stop fearing their government. V is just the inspiration that people need to stop being afraid to do so.

[blogslut]

21. An ending that only celluloid can deliver

I liked it. It was a nice fantasy.

[kestrel91316]

23. I guess I'm in the minority. I really enjoyed it.

[blogslut]

24. I'm there with you

Me on voting day, 2006:

[dipsydoodle]

28. Me too.

I bought the DVD as soon as it was released and still watch it occasionally.

[deutsey]

25. The violence at the end--when the Cheney-like character meets his end--was way over the top for me

I'm just not into that kind of movie violence.

I was a intrigued by the whole backstory of how the fascist regime came to power in the first place.

Other than the violence, though, the rest of the story was kind of weak to me.

[Zookeeper]

27. I was infuriated by "V" locking up and torturing Evie....

That part of the movie really dragged, too.

The movie was ok as a comic book, but absurd as a serious political statement.

Check out "Children of Men," if you haven't already.

[Balbus]

29. "Children of Men"

Great moive :thumbsup:

[Beelzebud]

30. Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea

Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Cheney(ha), and ideas are bulletproof.

Best moment in the movie.

I also literally tear up when Finch asks Evey "Who was he?". And she replies:

"He was Edmond Dantés... and he was my father. And my mother... my brother... my friend. He was you... and me. He was all of us."

[itcfish]

39. Best Line in the Movie

Just gave me the chills again.

[pitohui]

31. it also discredited the opposition to bushco, not a good film at all

the masked terrorist is an evil fuck who locks up the heroine and tortures her body and soul for an indefinite period of time for basically no reason except as a training exercise (also known as he knows better than her how to mold her personality -- that is fascism itself!)

i also don't "get" how blowing up the great landmarks of london that belong to the people for all time can be construed as anything but evil

all in all, while the gov't and the radio guy are a bunch of evil fucks, so is the opposition -- led by a cruel crazy in a mask and followed by suggestible and stupid followers happy put on a mask and to go along w. any kind of stupid-ass crap as part of a mob of idiots

you don't get free by blowing up your own buildings and history, that's total crap

a bad film w. a very bad message

[BlooInBloo]

32. If the viewer is suitably shallow, sure.

[Beelzebud]

33. So you just watch movies literally then, and don't think about the subcontext?

V even spells it out for people like you, because the director knew some people wouldn't 'get it'.

The buildings are symbols. Blowing up the parliment is a symbol for throwing out the old system, and replacing it with a new one.

Do you also read the bible literally?

[BlooInBloo]

36. Time capsule: Why are those crazy people wasting all of that perfectly good tea?

:rofl:

[Beelzebud]

40. Bingo!

[pitohui]

48. torturing the girl is not symbolic

actually blowing up the buildings is not symbolic either, you can't rebuild a piece of history, once it's destroyed, it is forever a copy or a fake if it is rebuilt at all (see under the twin towers in nyc)

but i notice all you people baying about how shallow i am have no explanation for the prolonged scenes, the centerpiece of the movie, where our "hero" tortures and breaks the heroine basically for no reason except a training exercise

sorry, if the message you take away is that if something bad happened to you then you can do anything you like then i think that an evil message

none of you people ever read "crime and punishment" oh wait a minute, anybody who thinks this a good film probably CAN'T read

[CJCRANE]

53. It is symbolic...because it's a movie.

These things didn't actually happen in real life. Films represent ideas through action and character, they are not political tracts or how-to manuals.

[Beelzebud]

54. Actually it is symbolic because it's a MOVIE, a.k.a. ART.

It's not my problem, or the problem of the film makers that you aren't smart enough to THINK about it.

[pitohui]

49. no but i think you do actually i don't think you are a critical viewer at all

you don't seem to even know the basic plot of the movie, blowing up the parliament was not symbolic, it actually happened at the end of the film and was presented as some sort of triumph

guy fawkes was not a good guy nor was coming back and doing his dirty deed the act of a good guy

if you don't know history and don't know that it's wrong to torture young women and to blow up buildings...then i guess maybe this is an acceptable film...for a cartoon

but if you have even a minimal sense of right and wrong it's quite ugly

he TORTURES the girl, in a tiny cell, for an unknown period of time

it's ugly and a fantasy for sickos frankly

[Hippo_Tron]

52. The movie isn't saying "V is the good guy, you should be like him"

V is a self-admitted monster who gets himself killed because the world has no place for people like him. Evey, Finch, and the rest of the ordinary citizens who eventually learn to stop fearing their government are the ones who are to be emulated.

[Beelzebud]

55. I don't think you have any footing to judge me. You obviously aren't smart enough to interpret art

[shadowknows69]

56. Condeming someone for judging you.

By passing a general judgement on their intelligence kind of takes the bang out of your gun there Beel. I respect you but just sayin.

[Beelzebud]

57. Thats what happens when you attempt to bash people as immoral for thinking about a movie.

Sorry if that offends you, but I'm done letting non-thinkers tell me what I should watch, listen to, or laugh at, because they aren't smart enough to see art for what it is.

[shadowknows69]

59. I'm on your side there

but having been a person who is regularly thought much less intelligent than I am it's a sore spot. Some people just aren't wired for "Art". Doesn't make them stupid. Peace.
S

[trumad]

34. snarf

you probably didn't get Borat either?

[John Kerry VonErich]

37. I think the lesson is...

that freedom and democracy is more important than buildings and things. Those can be rebuilt.

[Hippo_Tron]

42. V knows he's a monster, that's why he basically commits suicide

The message of the movie isn't "You should be like V and blow things up". The message is that you shouldn't fear your government.

[Dukkha]

43. spoken like a true conformist

just keep kissing ass to the enemy and give in to all demands, like Pelosi, Reid, DLC etc...
yeah that has worked reaaaaaal well :eyes: If people like you were around at revolutionary times we'd still be an English colony.

a great film adapted from one of the best graphic novels ever. The ends justify them means.

[Orsino]

35. I'm impressed that a movie so subversive got made in Hollywood.

It's over-the-top, of course, but rather well done. Great in spots.

[Oilwellian]

46. Absolutely loved it

And my husband loved it even more. He's seen it so many times (while I'm on the computer) he could probably repeat more than half the script, word for word. :D

[and-justice-for-all]

50. Very Viscious in its Venomous Vengence of Villianary!!

Bloody Smashing Film!!!!!

[Hekate]

51. Mr.H & I finally watched it at home on video, & added a new word to our vocab for watching the news

"Bollocks!" Exceedingly apt for Tony Snowjob and Bush statements.

I'm aware it's based on a comic book -- it shows its origins at every turn -- but it's actually a very topical movie. I now understand why "the mask" showed up as an avatar on so many DUers' posts.

Hekate

[shadowknows69]

58. As long as were on the subject of V

I broke down and watched a cheesy guilty pleasure from the 80's last night. The mini series V about the alien invasion. Given the time frame it was probably aimed squarely at the "Red Menace" but I was stunned with jaw on floor about how relevant a lot of the themes were today. If you can sit through the bad acting and cheesy FX (which weren't bad for TV in the day) rent the original miniseries DVD. ,SPOILER> The character of Abraham, who is a holocaust survivor, is one of the first to smell the BS the visitors are selling and becomes a true inspiration to the resistance is actually some poignant stuff