Boos at Take Back America

[evlbstrd]

Last year, the audience at the progressive conference underway at the Washington Hilton today booed Hillary Clinton for her stance on the war.

This morning, though, there was another target for the boos: Ralph Nader.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0607/Boos_at_Take_Back_America.html

(That was us!)

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. We done good!!

:rofl:

[Buzz Clik]

5. I love it when "progressives" imitate freepers by exhibiting rude behavior.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. It's called free speech

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. No need to make this personal

[Buzz Clik]

34. Oh, I get it -- you can tell me you're treating my like a kid in your classroom...

... but if I make reference to it, I'm crossing the line. :eyes:

If you don't want personal aspects included in the debate, then leave them out. It's really that simple.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. WTF??

Where did I mention anything about your kid and my classroom?

[Buzz Clik]

41. You want links, or shall we make a polite agreement to stop this now?

I'm more than happy to drop it forever.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. Links to what?

[Buzz Clik]

52. LOL!

Nevermind.

Let's leave it at this: If you don't want posters on this board including personal aspects about you in discussions, then don't give them the details. And don't assume that you can insult people on one thread and expect your targets to completely forget it the next time you cross paths.

As for me, I'll wipe the slate clean, and we can start fresh. But you get the idea.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. You are bringing some perceived insult from another thread into this one?

Good grief. Slow day at the office?

[Buzz Clik]

60. No, dear, we're discussing your complaining about "getting personal"

It is about you giving out personal information and then complaining when that information shows up again. (Are you doing this intentionally, or is the short-term memory wiring gone on the fritz?)

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. And I have absolutely no idea wtf you are talking about

Other than to insult me for something I said in another thread that I don't even remember saying, I don't understand why you are even responding to me.

[Buzz Clik]

64. Well, you might consider reading the thread. Alternatively, ...

... you can continue to piss and moan and try to garner support.

:nopity:

As for me, you've become boring. Have the last word. I now have a much clearer picture of the depth of your discussions.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. I have read the thread - this thread

and I have no clue other than you want to be a bitch to me. And like I said, I still don't understand what I said in THIS thread to upset you. Apparently I said something in ANOTHER thread that pissed you off (and I believe it is against DU rules to call me out in this thread for something I said in another thread?)

At any rate - Have a nice evening :hi:

[blondeatlast]

27. Yes, we should all politely applaud George, Dick, and Condi, too.

Give me a break--and lay off of the personal conflict.

[Buzz Clik]

33. So, you'd join the rightwing degenerates in the gutter by booing elected officials?

Nice third world touch.

[WilliamPitt]

38. Nader won something?

[Buzz Clik]

40. Rhetorical question, I'm sure... but she changed the subject to Bush et al.

[blondeatlast]

46. I didn't change it all. Nice try. nt

[Buzz Clik]

48. You didn't say this?: "Yes, we should all politely applaud George, Dick, and Condi, too."

Someone apparently has logged on using your name.

[blondeatlast]

68. That's what I wrote first, that's what's still there.

Show me how it was edited?! :shrug:

[DancingBear]

55. The 5th Floor Sealed Indictment Special Acheivement Award

Presented by The Secret Service.

It's all the rage.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Hey DB!!

Wish you were here. But maybe you are lucky you aren't here. It appears we are in trouble for booing Nader.

[blondeatlast]

47. What was Nader elected to? nt

[Chulanowa]

71. Hell yes, if they deserve to be booed.

But then again I believe that each attendee to these functions should be supplied with both a torch and a pitchfork. Just in case it's needed.

[wellst0nev0ter]

45. And I Love It When "Progressives" Take Money From Freepers

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/07/09/MNGQQ7J31K1.DTL

He knew what he was doing, boos are too good for the likes of him.

[Buzz Clik]

49. You define yourself this way.

Go for it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Thank you

I was just remembering that nonsense the other day.

[roguevalley]

70. People expressing their opinions at an open forum may be 'rude'

but it used to be called democracy.

[Buzz Clik]

78. It can't be both?

Freedom of speech ("democracy" as you put it) is no guarantee of freedom from criticism.

[roguevalley]

80. it can be but one should not take precedence over the other.

[Buzz Clik]

81. Exactly my point. Exaclty.

:woohoo:

[MNDemNY]

2. I would not boo Nader, I Would boo those who voted for him.

[evlbstrd]

3. It's not immediately obvious who they are.

At least I can't tell.
But Nader said there was no difference between Gore and Bush. That alone was enough for me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. If he hadn't agreed to run,

there wouldn't be any voters who voted for him.

[Warpy]

7. I wouldn't boo either, really

because the people who voted for Nader were desperately trying to send a message to the DLC dominated party. Health care is back on the table, so maybe they got through. It was off the table in the Gore campaign.

The problem was that a lot of stuff was off the table in the Gore campaign.

I didn't agree with them and I didn't follow them but I sure as hell understood them.

It's really a miracle Gore won. He did win, you know.

[MNDemNY]

8. He did, but sans Nader we could have inaugurated him.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Hence, the reason we booed him!

[Warpy]

36. The fix was in, IMO

and there was no way they would allow another Democratic president to follow Clinton.

[radfringe]

18. THE MESSENGER

yes, nader is trying to send a message.

the problem is that the message gets muddled with the messenger.

The message is being delivered by the wrong messenger. Nader should take a position in the back room and send out a different messenger

[AndyTiedye]

25. The Problem is That Instead of Sending The Democrats a Message, Nader Shot Them in the Back

and nearly did the Democratic Party in.

[MadAnne]

43. Well said.

I don't even remember much about the environment on the table.

[Buzz Clik]

6. I voted for Gore, but I surely understood Nader's complaint.

A nice raspberry for those who drafted the 2000 Democratic Platform. :mad:

[MuseRider]

9. I am glad you all are there but why would

you boo Nader? People obviously thought he was the best so they voted for him. Isn't that what this democracy thing is all about? I don't get it. So Gore lost (not really)? So we should never allow someone else to run? Really, I don't get it.

Have fun y'all and hurry back to hot and humid Kansas. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. And I don't get why his party trashed Gore

If the Greens could develop their own platform that promotes what they believe in rather than what is wrong with the other parties, they would get a lot more support from me.

[MuseRider]

20. They did

but they pissed off so many people just by running that people did not listen or look or investigate them any further. They had a great platform.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Nader trash talked Gore

Have you forgotten?

[MuseRider]

28. They we competing!

Of course he did.

I have not forgotten a thing but I don't see the need to make one man evil and one good. Good grief. Gore is not a god he is a man who makes mistakes like all of us, some will not agree and in an election there is always trash talk. Nader as well. Dean as well. Clinton as well. etc. Every single one of us. So he trash talked Gore and we should all make him the evil devil for eternity? I don't get it, like I said before.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Who said anything about anyone being evil?

Nader made several mistakes, but that doesn't make him evil.

Good grief I don't know what is happening to progressives. Even here at this conference, some topics are okay and others are not. They dumped the impeachment forum yesterday in a back room that wasn't listed on the hotel map. Same thing with a forum about ending the war this morning. 3000 people here and all of 20 went to the impeachment forum. There were 3 at the session about the war this morning. Last night some radio lady (we are still trying to identify her) told us if Gore runs, he will split the party and the republicans will win. Last year Hillary was booed and now this year we can't boo Nader? :wtf:

[MuseRider]

35. You can boo whoever you want

and yes, he is certainly made out to be evil on this site, over and over and over again.

You don't have to like anything I say, I was just asking because it seemed as wrong to me as all of this Nader vilifying is to me. You are certainly free to do and feel how you like, I was not trying to say you could not but I am as confused about why good progressives would act that way as you are about the other. He exercised his right to run. That is OK not a horrible thing. Even if it cost Gore I would say that he was right to run, he gave people who did not like either of the other candidates someone to vote for and he certainly moves the discussion left.

Do what you like, I was asking for clarification as to why. He did not agree with Gore so he ran against him.

Gore won. Anyone can run for the office. Ha Ha Perot cost Bush Sr. the election, Nader is an asshole. I am just confused.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. And I am confused as well

[evlbstrd]

15. It's hot and humid here, too.

We feel right at home.
We could have a very long conversation re: expressing my displeasure with Nader. The fact that third-parties are still not viable in this country without a parliamentary form of representation makes me believe that Nader could have actually helped more as an activist than as a candidate. As it was, he had a lot of difficulty getting on primary ballots and it came off (at least to me) as a vanity campaign.

[MuseRider]

22. All true

but my beef is with all the blame. IF he cost Gore the election it still is not something to vilify him with IMO. It is the right of everyone who wants to run to run and it is the right of everyone to vote for who they wish to see win the election. It is fine to be angry as well but he did nothing wrong. He did not agree with the platforms being put out so he did what every citizen has the right to do, run himself. I don't buy the vanity stuff. If it was for some rinky dink thing then yes but this is such a huge undertaking I can't imagine anyone taking all that crap and spending all that time and money just for ego. It is not as if he was not well known for doing good things already.

I guess I just get tired of using others as a scapegoat when they really only did what is available to every one of us. At least he was not a keyboard activist like most of us, he really did what he thought was the right thing to do. I think we would have held the R's up to more responsibility for the stealing of the election and maybe gotten something done if we had not decided to spend so much time making Nader the bad guy just so we could all feel good about something. I just don't get it.

Funny how we all laugh and think Perot was somewhat of a hero taking votes from Bush Sr. and freak the hell out over Nader for doing the same to us (and that is to me debatable, I think Gore won even without Nader).

[Bodhi BloodWave]

77. out of curiosity

since i'm not in the US and as such don't know the intricate details and everything i have a question.

From what i've understood third parties are not 'viable' currently due to being to small et al, as such it is a wasted vote to vote for them....Now here is my question: How exactly will third parties become viable unless people vote for them?

Unless i'm wrong parties seldom appear at full and proper size out of nothing and if enough people get fed up they have a larger chance to grow if they are in the running as people learn more about them which again puts pressure on the two main parties. I think they need some serious competition but that won't happen unless people vote for a third party, and yes the third party might not win that round but there is always next time and so on until they reach critical mass.

I'm not advocating people here to vote third party and i'll be honest and say if i were viable to vote i'd vote Obama(do support him on Second Life for the little that is worth), just stating my view on third party votes and those who vote it

So as far as i see it, voting for a third party is not wasted vote but more an investment for those doing it(winning isn't always everything, standing for what you believe/value is just as important if not more).

[RedCappedBandit]

12. Don't like democracy? nt.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Yeah, I guess Nadar doesn't

Good point.

[RedCappedBandit]

16. Don't think you got my point

:hi:

[evlbstrd]

21. Love it.

Lost it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. Thing Is, He's So Vain He Probably Soaked It All Up.

Fuck Nader.

[DancingBear]

56. Once again, another pearl of electronically generated wisdom

Do you need help in composing such poetic verbiage or does the muse just flow????

Once you answer that, I must ask the question that many here are wondering:

Are you old enough to drive??

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. Stop Projecting Pal.

:hi:

[Beelzebud]

23. Nader talks issues. Dems / Reps talk about how much money is in their warchest.

[patrice]

29. The "Center" would move considerably to the "Right" if it were not

for the likes of Nader.

People may or may not choose to vote for him, but he serves a function. If "the Party" can't deal with that it needs to adapt.

[Totally Committed]

30. Nader needs to sit down and shut up this time around....

all he does is muddy the waters. It's now too easy to say "What happened to me was because Ralph Nader ran." People need to see whatever happens to Mrs. Clinton as being the error of Mrs. Clinton and the people who backed her, and not Mr. Nader.

TC

[MuseRider]

42. Oh boy do I agree

with you. We will never be able to make things happen as long as he is there to use as a scapegoat. You are so correct. Will he? I don't know, he certainly can do what he likes but at this point I would hope he recognizes how difficult it is for us to move our party back to the people if he is out there.

[Buzz Clik]

44. I would hope that Nader getting vocal won't be necessary.

If, however, our nominee has spent his/her political career carefully straddling the boundaries of right and left to make himself/herself more electable, it will be time to make noise.

[DancingBear]

57. If?????????????

Surely you know the correct word is "when." :)

[Buzz Clik]

61. Indeed, DancingBear.

We will hear endless contradicting platitudes and infuriating non-committal answers to questions. We will be told to walk in lock step and vote for the nominee no matter how appalled we become.

And we'll be having this discussion again in 4 years.

[MuseRider]

66. It is because of

that discussion we can't move forward. None of this is the fault of the "wacky left" or Nader it is the fault of all of us who say or have said that we would vote for a ham sandwich rather than vote for a Republican or any other party. As long as we say that, as long as we let the Dems know they will be our person no matter what they do because the other side is worse we will never make progress. They are in a wonderful cushy position right now and that position will get more comfy as more and more corps pay them back for legislation. But we would rather have them than anyone else so there is simply not any motivation for them to listen to us, they have our vote no matter how many times they hit us with that baseball bat.

[Buzz Clik]

67. Damn. Can I nominate this as the post of the month?

[MuseRider]

69. I guess I am really pissed.

I am pissed that as a life long Dem I was finally so sickened and angry that I went and registered unaffiliated. I am pissed that I can't identify with a group of leaders who feel as I do. One or two maybe but that is all. I am pissed that every day I wake up and expect life to be much more difficult than it was for no good reason except the Dems gave in too many times. I could take all of this if they were loud and fighting. Hell, even the Republicans here want them to frickin stand up once in a while. I really am pissed about being so embarrassed by the backing down and tail between their legs actions and keeping the powder dry. Arghhhhh. I don't want a hero, we make them all hero's when one finally comes along and does something we want them to and then we turn around and hang them out to dry IF they did not hang us out first. I really really really want to vote for a Democrat I really do but so far I am not liking what our choices are, like I actually think any of this is up to us. I can be as pragmatic as the rest of the people here but I don't think pragmatism is going to help us, not now as I stated in the post above.

Thanks, that felt good, I needed to get that out. We MUST hold them accountable. Holding their feet to the fire and then backing down at the last minute is not working very well.

[patrice]

31. Let the pogroms begin . . .

so "we" can take back America.

[MuseRider]

37. Hey patrice!

:hi:

[patrice]

79. Hey MuseRider!

:hi: I hope you're having a good day! :hi:

[The Stranger]

62. Why on Earth would you boo Nader? Ralph Nader was right.

On continuing to fund the Iraq catastrophe occupation, on taking impeachment of a war criminal who lied in the State of the Union "off the table," on refusing to simply require Congressional approval of yet another illegal attack on a Middle Eastern nation, on perpetuating the "terrorism" lie and failing to address the massive assault on civil liberties -- all of this, the Democrats have behaved exactly like Republicans. Nader told you this was going to happen.

[Patchuli]

72. I wouldn't boo him but I don't like him

And you cannot say a Gore presidency would have turned out like the the current pResidency has. We would not be in Iraq.

Nader may be a smart man, but he is a vain man and that has not helped his country one iota.

[ProudDad]

73. Ah, it's time for that tired old whine

"Nader cost us the election!" (whine, whine, whine)...

Even GORE recently said, "Nader didn't cost me the election, I did!"

Maybe someday you Nader Haters can grow just 1/10 the balls of Al Gore.

[TahitiNut]

74. I sure won't hold my breath.

There sure are a lot of "three fingers pointing back" on DU. :silly:

[GeorgeGist]

75. Small wonder.

Faux progressives can't get beyond Nader.

[flpoljunkie]

76. The Politico's Ben Smith is also linking to your post here..."Democrats discuss booing Nader"

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0607/Remainders_Energy_efficiency.html

[Mark E. Smith]

82. I would think that anyone who takes GOP money ...

... and then has the nerve to proclaim himself the voice of Progressives deserves a good round of boos.

I only regret that I wasn't there to join in.