WTF story - girl gets raped - 'This is her fault.', witnesses save her, DA not pressing charges

[The Straight Story]

Witnesses To Alleged De Anza Rape Speak Out

POSTED: 10:10 pm PDT May 22, 2007
UPDATED: 8:43 pm PDT May 24, 2007

SAN JOSE -- Two young women who say they intervened during a savage assault at a college party are speaking out in an exclusive television interview. The women say they witnessed a rape last March that involved members of the De Anza College baseball team, and they are now outraged that the Santa Clara County District Attorney has chosen not to prosecute the case.

The DA says there is insufficient evidence to bring charges against the eight members of the De Anza baseball team, but Tuesday night KTVU Channel 2 spoke with the two young women who say they were at the party and rescued from a sexual assault a 17-year old girl they had not known until that night.

...

They say they tried to get into the room, but were confronted by a baseball player.

" 'Mind your own business; she wants to be in here' and slams the door," says Grolle.

"When I looked in, I saw about ten pairs of legs surrounding a girl, lying on the mattress on the floor and a guy on top of her with his pants down and his hips thrusting on top of her," recall Chief Elk. "And when I saw that I knew immediately something wasn't right. It just didn't look right."

...

"This poor girl was not moving. She had vomit dribbling down her face. We had to scoop vomit out of her mouth lift her up. Her pants were completely off her body," says Chief Elk. "She had her one shoe one, her jeans were wrapped around one of her ankles and her underwear was left around her ankles. To the left of the bed there was some condom thrown on the ground."

"When they lifted her head up, her eyes moved and she said 'I'm sorry,'" says Grolle. "One of the guys who was in the room said 'This is her fault. She got drunk and she did this to herself.'"

http://www.ktvu.com/news/13370961/detail.html

[Sanctified]

1. Any Chance this is going to be the Aftermath of the Duke case?

Are DA's going to only prosecute slam dunk cases for fear they are going to lose their jobs because a sleaze ball named Nifong in NC abused his power.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. Yeah, like DAs were so diligent about prosecuting cases before Nifong

:eyes:

Pretty much the only credible rape victim is a virgin on her way home from Bible school. That has never changed. I don't know where you've been all these years.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[JVS]

15. LOL!

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[The Backlash Cometh]

38. Blonde. You forgot "blonde" virgin on her way home from Bible school.

Then the media would give a damn.

[HardRocker05]

123. correct. it's no wonder women don't report rapes. i'd take the law into my own hands if something li

like that ever happened to me. it's the only way to get any justice.

[slampoet]

145. Here in Providence a Brown University student got away with raping a local girl.......

....just like Brown U students have been doing for the last 300 years.

But in this case the Brownie found a bag of weed next to his car a few weeks later.
When the student rolled a jay and smoked it he found out that the weed had been sprayed with a distillation of the plant known as poison ivy.

I am told he was on a respirator for over a year.


Locals have their ways of getting even.

[LisaL]

150. Do you have a link to that story cause it sounds like an urban

legend to me.

[slampoet]

169. I will say that i saw the rapist pick up the bag of weed.

I will also say that I know who put it there and that i can't say for another few years who it was, as the statute has not yet run out.

I am not passing on something i heard. I am providing an eyewitness account.





For something to be an urban myth there has to be a third person account. This is first person.

[OzarkDem]

131. Defense attorney for alleged rapists donated to DA's campaign

Alleged rape victim's rescuers threatened
Soccer players are called names after intervening at party

...That's the message the soccer players got from the men accused in the case.

"People I didn't even know were coming up to me and saying, 'Stop your lying. Shut your f -- mouth,' " Chief Elk said in an interview last week. "We'd be walking around, and people would actually come up and get in our face."

It reached the point where they felt threatened. Cmdr. John Hirokawa of the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Department confirms that deputies were called to the campus on a complaint of harassment."

...

"It seems to me that a bunch of folks have already made up their minds,'' says (Defense Attorney) Cahners. "I would say this: The D.A. is a woman, she is married to a policeman, and she is the former head of the sexual assault team in the D.A.'s office. Do you really think she doesn't want to prosecute?''

(Cahners, it should be said, is a supporter of Carr's, giving $1,000 to her election campaign. He says he did not donate to her opponent.)


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/03/MNG7EQ6QJ81.DTL

[mrreowwr_kittty]

140. Yet another reason that judges and prosecutors should NOT be elected positions

How can they possibly dispense justice without having to be concerned about political ramifications?

[Nikki Stone1]

10. That's a legitimate fear, MiltonF

:kick:

[Solo_in_MD]

16. Its not just the Duke case, its every case where rape or discrimination is falsely charged

that undermines the valid ones. There have been numerous high profile ones including Tawana Brawley and Kerri Dunn. Bring up a racism/hate crime or rape case, and guaranteed someone will snigger and mention those cases or one like it, and now the Duke case.

Rape and racism clearly continue to exist, but every time patently false charges are brought, it makes the real ones that much harder to be taken seriously.

[Nikki Stone1]

43. I haven't been keeping up with every detail of the Duke case and don't want to open a can of worms

But we are sure that they are innocent? Or did an overzealous DA lose a case where these guys probably did it?

[Solo_in_MD]

52. One of the indicted was demostrably not there

- ATM and Dorm access records proved it.

Additionally:
- No DNA from any of the LAX players was present, though there was some from 3 other men
- Nifong overrode standard police procedure WRT photo lineups
- Nifong withheld exculpatory evidence.

In this case it was clearly a DA trying to insure his re election.

[Nikki Stone1]

58. Hmm. The one who wasn't there: how did his name get brought into it?

No DNA or no usable DNA? (corrupted samples). Were condoms used?

(I'm just trying to get a clear picture. I didn't want to get on the Duke threads because they seemed to be flamefests.)

Does Nifong have a history of manipulating evidence? I can imagine that any case he prosecuted based on DNA is now going to want to appeal.

[Solo_in_MD]

63. Per the media...

No DNA was found from any of the LAX players. Not clear if there was evidence of sexual contact immediately prior to the exam, which would include residue from condoms. DNA from other men was found.

Nifong suppressed the exculpatory evidence, but eventually it came out. It was probably the most damning issue that got him disbarred. He pressed for indictments knowing he had no DNA evidence.

The indicted players were based on a photo lineup given the accuser. It included only pictures of LAX team members. Normal police procedure is to include non-suspects pictures in photo lineups.

Nifong was in a tough re election race at the time. After this first hit, he won easily.


What pisses me off most about this is that Nifong devalued every other legitimate rape claim when he did this.

[Nikki Stone1]

157. SO it is possible that condoms could have been used. Hmmm..

As I said before, I have kept away from discussions of this case, but I wonder if the issue was that the guys were really ruled out or that Nifong's actions were so unethical that the case fell apart. I don't really have a feel for it either way.

[pnwmom]

162. No, the tests that were done would have shown condom residue, if

condoms were used -- and they did NOT.

[Nikki Stone1]

166. Ok, no evidence of condoms.

Thanks.

[pnwmom]

67. Two of them actually had alibis that put them away from

the house during the only times that any attack could have occurred, based on the time/date stamped videos from the party and cell phone records.

The names got brought into it in this way: the police broke the state rules of procedure in how they conducted the photo lineup. When she twice
couldn't identify any suspects in the usual manner (with photos including "fillers" -- ie. men known not to be involved), Nifong directed the police to show her individual photos of all 46 white team members, with no fillers. They told her that the photos were all the people who were at the party that night, and asked her to pick three. She picked four, but it was never clarified how this was narrowed this down to 3.

She stated clearly that no condoms were used. She also stated that oral contact was involved. But she had no DNA from any of the 46 students anywhere in or on her body. However, Nifong withheld from the Judge, the Court, and the Defense attorneys the fact that DNA from several UNIDENTIFIED men -- not her boyfriends, lab employees, or any of the students -- was found on her body.

Nifong suggested that she was given a date rape drug, however there is no evidence that she was. On the other hand, she acknowledged having at least 2 large (twenty two) ounce beers before the party, in addition to her prescription muscle relaxant (which is never supposed to be combined with alcohol, much less a large amount of alcohol.) She also has a long history of mental illness, including hospitalizations. She has a history of needing anti-psychotic medications. She also has a history of having made a previous claim of gang rape as a teenager, and then withdrawing the accusation.

At the point when she first cried rape, the police were about to involuntarily commit her into an alcohol treatment center; with the claim, she was able to go to a hospital instead.

Over the next year, she gave a myriad of different stories of how the supposed atttack took place, which all contradicted each other, as well as contradicted the account of her driver, the other dancer, and the taxi driver who picked up one of the students from the party.

At the point Nifong heard about the case, he was running well behind one of his two opponents in a primary election race for DA. By winning the race and serving for 5 years, he would have been eligible for significantly increased retirement benefits. Unfortunately, his opponent had four times as much to spend on the campaign as he did. What this case gave him was a huge media presence, and he moved from being well behind his African-American opponent, to beating her by several percentage points -- in a county where the Dems are largely African American.

[Nikki Stone1]

160. I only care about the evidence, not the innuendo

I don't particularly care how many men she had sex with or whether she drank anything or whether she had a history of mental illness--rape is rape. I also can understand if small points of a story shift somewhat over time. Having been in a pretty traumatic auto accident (not my fault) I know how you can begin to doubt your own recollection of events over time, even when you think you have a clear memory of what happened. So all of the character "evidence" doesn't rule out the possibility of the young woman having been raped.

What does bother me is the lack of DNA evidence (and no explanation for it if condoms weren't used or if there wasn't some kind of evidence of "clean-up" after the fact). I am also disturbed by Nifong's actions, which are unethical. I had not read about this case for a great many reasons, but I can see why he has been disbarred.

[pnwmom]

161. What does innuendo have to do with it?

If Nifong actually thought she had been raped, then he would have investigated the sources of the DNA that he found on the woman who was claiming rape. Perhaps, for example, there were men attending the party BESIDES the 46 lacrosse students. Or maybe she had been raped just before she went to the party, but in her substance-altered state, she had unclear memories of what happened.

But Nifong obviously didn't care about finding out the truth. He just wanted his case.

[Nikki Stone1]

164. Did you read the actual post?

That should explain it. If not, I'll make it clearer for you. Much of the background information you gave was to take away from the witness's credibility, not to show evidence that there had been (or had not been) a rape. I don't care about her background at all or any innuendo that stems from it.

You and I do agree that Nifong clearly botched the case through both a lack off skill and a lack of ethics. My greater concern is for any young woman raped on a college campus, especially Duke. It happens far more often than is reported, and now the reports will go down thanks to Nifong's botching of this case.

[pnwmom]

168. I agree that Nifong has made things worse for future rape victims.

But I see no evidence that he "botched" the case. He deliberately sought the indictments, knowing that he had been unable to obtain valid identifications or DNA evidence, and knowing that the medical exam showed no evidence of an attack -- for the sake of his primary election campaign. Then he continued to press it, as all the evidence mounted AGAINST him, rather than drop the charges. He didn't botch a case -- he was attempting to railroad three innocent defendents for the sake of his career.

[ThomCat]

33. In other words, back to the status quo

where rape cases get ignored and rapists walk away scott free. x(

[Kerrytravelers]

126. SSDD

Yep.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

78. Any DA who operates that way as a result of the Duke case

Is every bit the political hack that people think Nifong is and should resign or be fired. DAs should base prosecutions on the merits of the case, not what happened to some other prosecutor. The DA in this case should lose her job if she is hesitant to prosecute because of the Duke case and the effect it might have on her political career. This is why I'm very leery of attorneys and judges being elected positions.

[LisaL]

83. I don't think you can fire an elected official because she won't

prosecute the case. I don't think it's against ethic rules for her not to prosecute the case if she feels there is insufficient evidence to take it to trial.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

87. If she's doing it for political reasons, she should be

Voters should get a recall going if she can't be fired. Eyewitness accounts of men having sex with a 17 year old girl who is vomiting on herself but there's insufficient evidence for a trial? Please. How about letting the grand jury decide that.

[LisaL]

93. The vomit was tested and it did not come from the girl.

And by the way now AG is looking at this case. He can decide to prosecute the case- or not.
I am not going to presume I know more about the case than two prosecutors, and neither should you.

[Scout]

105. "vomit was tested and it did not come from the girl"

that makes whatever happened to her even WORSE

[mrreowwr_kittty]

111. Watch some slick defense attorney spin that

Into some kind of harmless fetish. "Some women LIKE being vomited on!"

[Beaverhausen]

114. Apparantly some DUer is saying that- several times in this thread

as if the fact that the vomit isn't the victims makes it somehow OK.

Whatever :eyes:

[pnwmom]

163. self-delete

[shance]

3. Was just reading this about the Duke rapists today. I had no idea how bad it was.

The wealthy white male privilege and as in the Duke case, the underlying racism and hatred experienced towards those who are not wealthy, male and white, and who they feel are expendable objects and inferior.....



"On March 13, three Duke University lacrosse team captains hosted a party at their home, attended by most of the team’s members.

The players arranged for two exotic dancers to entertain them, but provided false information: they told the booking service that dancers would perform at a bachelor party for five men.

When the dancers arrived they found more than forty drunken men–mostly members of the Duke lacrosse team.

The rest of the events of the night in question are hotly contested.

There was racial harassment of the two dancers as they performed, both of whom are black women.

All the lacrosse team members there that night, but one, is white.

According to the police warrant, after the dancers discontinued their performance because of the men’s aggressive and intimidating behavior, three men forced one of the dancers into a bathroom.

There she was held against her will, beaten, strangled, gang raped, and sodomized for thirty minutes.

When the women were finally permitted to leave, a neighbor reported hearing one of the men shout, “Thank your grandpa for my cotton shirt!” – a hateful remark of particular weight coming from a student at an elite university founded by one of the largest and most wealthy slave-owning families in Durham’s history.

In our town, many residents have long family histories stretching back to the times of slavery whose grandparents did in fact pick the cotton that spawned the enormous wealth of the southern white aristocracy.

A police search of 610 Buchanan turned up four red fingernails belonging to the victim, (typical when a woman is forced to physically defend herself.

They also found her make-up bag, cell phone, identification, a single white stiletto with a six-inch heel, and $400.00 in cash (all in twenty-dollar bills).

From the beginning, the news outlets’ choice of words defined the people within the case.

Many articles and stories referred to the survivor only as a “stripper,” ignoring that she is also a mother, an honor roll student at North Carolina Central University (an historically black university, also located in Durham), and a military veteran.

In contrast, the references to her attackers as students and athletes seemed truly unfair and designed to arouse suspicion about her credibility.

Just as racial stereotypes and coded language shape the way we hear news on a daily basis (typically linking criminality and black men), undue focus on this woman’s job also plays into the stereotypes that many people have about sex workers.

Unfortunately, it is not only Rush Limbaugh (who called her a “ho”) or David Yeagley of FrontPageMag.com (“She was literally asking for it, for whatever happened anyway.”) and those of their ilk who have excused the alleged crimes based on the survivor’s occupation.

Recently, in an interview John Hope Franklin gave on National Public Radio, he said just that.

This is particularly disappointing coming from a man who is a celebrated black writer and historian, civil rights advocate, Duke Professor emeritus, and Chairman of the advisory board for One America: the President’s Initiative on Race.

In the interview Professor Franklin said, “I’m not sure how much you ask for it if you’re going to get out there and be a stripper. The case gets to be a little weaker when you’re talking about someone who is engaged in that profession.”

The ugly commentary we heard all over the media following the rape, reflects an undercurrent of thought that many Americans would not normally feel free to voice that says black women and sex workers are not “people of note” (something Yeagley actually said to describe the survivor).

As a result, a defense strategy that poses the lacrosse players as men capable of racial harassment, physical intimidation, and robbery, can expect that these same men will be seen as credible witnesses when compared to a black stripper.

This is deeply painful for those of us either currently or formerly engaged in sex work in Durham. One UBUNTU member who is a former sex worker and rape survivor wrote:

When I began to think about and really process this, I had to acknowledge to myself that the survivor of the Duke Lacrosse rape was raped because she was a sex worker, which makes her just like me… Rape is seen as acceptable because she was a sex worker — according to that logic she and are alike and both “un-rapeable.”

And does that mean? hat when I was raped it somehow count?

On April 5, a March 27 search warrant for the residence of lacrosse player, Ryan McFadyen, was unsealed and posted on the website TheSmokingGun.com.

Among other details, the search warrant includes an email message sent by McFadyen with disturbing and violent content.

The email was sent exactly 36 minutes after the survivor met police in the parking lot of a nearby grocery store and first reported that she had been assaulted and raped (1:22 am). This is what the message said:

“tommrow night, after tonights show, ive decided to have some strippers over to edens 2c. all are welcome.. however there will be no nudity. i plan on killing the bitches as soon as the walk in and proceding to cut their skin off while cumming in my duke issue spandex.. all in besides arch and tack please respond41″

“41” is Ryan McFadyen’s jersey number. Many were especially disturbed to learn that he attended the Duke campus’ Take Back The Night rally on March 29. He told a student newspaper reporter that, “I completely support this event and this entire week. It’s just sad that the allegations we are accused of happened to fall when they did.” Duke’s annual “Sexual Assault Awareness Week” began on March 27. McFayden’s supporters claim this proves his email is simply a joke because his appearance at the rally is incompatible with someone who could actually be violent towards women.

On June 30, newspapers reported that Ryan McFadyen was readmitted to Duke without sanction.

A letter from Duke Vice Chancellor Larry Moneta to University President Richard Brodhead, detailing the terms of his suspension and reinstatement was released to the media.

Apparently, Moneta also considers McFayden’s email about mutilating and killing strippers a “joke.” McFayden’s suspension from Duke, has been explained as a precaution to ensure his safety, not as a disciplinary response. He is not required to undergo counseling, no public apology is requested,–and he will play on the reinstated lacrosse team.

In Moneta’s opinion, sending this email, while “given the context of the time” was inappropriate, does not even rise to the level of what they consider disorderly conduct.

Larry Moneta sweeps the terrorism of McFadyn’s email aside.

He takes McFadyn’s stated intentions at face value and welcomes him back into the fold. Certainly, this is not the only possible interpretation of McFadyn’s mimicking of the pathological ravings of a serial killer in the movie American Psycho. What is a “joke”? When does a “joke” turn into a threat?

A “threat” into terrorism? For us, the vile email was just not a joke. It’s not that it was misinterpreted; it was never funny to begin with.

The power dynamics reveal a different interpretation, one that reveals the email as an unveiled parade of dominance, a shove-it-in-their-face reminder of who’s in charge for all of the men he sent it to.

It’s more like a postcard of a lynching, than it is like a knock-knock joke.

Postcards of lynch scenes were widely popular during the heyday of lynching in the Jim Crow American South, parading the charred and mutilated remains of victims as momentos available for pennies at storefronts all over the South.

White Southerners bought these either to keep for posterity or to mail to friends to far away to come out for the show to share in the spectacle.

It seems more likely to us that the idea that it was a “joke” came later, when the shame of an excessive display of misogyny and dominance became a little embarrassing and had big consequences.

The power dynamics also require an analysis of the intersections between racism and social perceptions of sex work.

UBUNTU’s work to end sexual violence targets those situations and people we know are most vulnerable to sexual assault.

As women of color and sex workers, we know that we represent groups of people that are made more vulnerable by cultural perceptions that say we’re throwaway people and declare open season on our bodies.

Those that prey on us are aware of how society regards black women and sex workers and choose their targets accordingly.

This summer, two white men Jeremy Sweat, 24, and Dustin Evans, 21, were arrested and charged with kidnapping, sexual assault, and attempted murder in connection with the alleged attacks on two black women in Manning, South Carolina. According to Lt. Tommy Burgess of the Clarendon County Sheriff’s Department, Sweat explained his choice of black women for victims saying, “ someone society wouldn’t care about, wouldn’t be missed,”

Beyond these dramatic examples, sex workers of color are often abused by clients according to racist fantasies. As one UBUNTU member explained, “As a dancer myself, it was not uncommon for customers to refer to me on stage by racial epithets–both by those perversely turned on by patriarchal ideas about “exotic women” and by those who I had made angry in some way as a more intentional form of verbal assault.”

The consequences for sex workers of color may be greater in terms of community acceptance and stigmatization.

Scholar Elizabeth Higgonbotham coined the phrase “the politics of respectability” to describe how racial oppression can be broken down if oppressed folks are just respectable enough. Basically, people of color who engage in stigmatized behavior are seen as reflecting poorly on their people and disparaged for their actions.

The politics of respectability most certainly enters the Duke rape situation when we see community leaders like Jesse Jackson offering to give the survivor a full-ride scholarship to pay for the remainder of her education so that she does not have to strip. While it is certainly a wonderful thing that a single mother of two no longer has to worry about how to pay for school, the gift confuses the issue.

The problem is not that she was stripping. The problem is that she was raped."

http://iambecauseweare.wordpress.com/2007/03/09/the-duke-case-in-perspective/

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Marrah_G]

28. I've just begun ignoring them also

It is not worth arguing with people that are so filled with hate and racism that they cannot even admit they were wrong when the facts so clearly show that they are.

Sad, delusional little people who have decided that it is okay to think class+race automatically makes someone guilty. No better , really, then someone who assumes all poor black men are criminals.

[Solo_in_MD]

12. The citation you use has a fairly unique view of the case

- No evidence was found that any of the LAX players raped her
- Evidence was found of sexual activity with three other men (some may have been identified)
- The dancer was pretty jacked up at the time
- Read the testimony of the other dancer
- Read the statement of the cabbie
- One of the accused was proven not to be there.

This *particular* case was not about rape or privledge but a DA trying to win re election.

[Mike Daniels]

27. deleted

[Renew Deal]

29. Have you been under a rock?

It turns out the guys didn't do anything and the prosecutor was prosecuted.

[LisaL]

85. Yep, Nifong was disbarred.

[OzarkDem]

113. Sorry

But there is still a lot of evidence being ignored or overlooked in the Duke case. It will never be addressed and, yes, prosecutors will fear going up against college kids from well to do families when women report being raped or abused.

Its the reality of the situation. Sad but true.

[brentspeak]

117. Uh, yeah

Beyond the fact that the woman in the Duke case lied, and that the Duke lacrosse players were railroaded, there's "still a lot of evidence".

:eyes:

[Kingshakabobo]

120. What a crock of shit.

Why don't you enlighten us as to the evidence being ignored.

You are like one of those Japanese soldiers found 20 years after the war ended. It's over. Get over it.

[OzarkDem]

124. Read up on it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1144174&mesg_id=1144293

They may have gone after the wrong guys, the DA may have screwed up the case, but there is evidence that something bad happened that night. It wasn't a fun party where everyone had a good time.

[Kingshakabobo]

133. I have read up on it........

I've read more than I care to admit. I followed the case. I read most of the public court fillings as they were published.......including police incident reports.

I read enough to know that post you just linked back to is a year behind the times and full of shit. And frankly, I call bullshit on you for even trying that crap on for size.

If by something bad you mean a whack-job-drunk-high-on-muscle-relaxers stripper showing up to a 'job' for a bunch of asshole frat-boys.........frat boys who called her the "N" word when they didn't get the show they bargained for.......and a whack-job stripper who made glaringly inconsistent statements of rape to keep her ass out of detox and/or a probation violation and/or to get revenge for said "N" word........or a nurse administering a rape kit/test and finding NO visible signs of truama...........and a DNA test showing several, ahem, samples from 3 or 4 other guys - none of which were suspects or even at the party..........or a DA who made knowingly false public statements and/or withheld exculpatory evidence to the court - and admitted same and was disbarred for same........or a DA who violated published procedure by administering a kangaroo court line-up....or a DA who pressed charges against an individual who couldn't POSSIBLY have been involved per time-stamped photos, dorm swipe-card records and ATM photo records......

If that's what you men by "something bad" happened I will agree. Otherwise, I will call bullshit and tell you to try that shit on someone else.


Anything else is your own personal baggage.

[NaturalHigh]

171. You are really obsessed with your delusion that...

the Duke lacrosse team was guilty of something. Did you bet money on a conviction or something?

[pnwmom]

70. You had no idea because that essay is a piece of garbage.

Much of it is a rehash of articles that came out in the first few months after Nifong brought the case.

There was no rape or attack.

The police report was based on the mentally ill accuser's false claims, nothing more. There was no physical evidence of any kind of attack, no evident bruising on her body. There was no DNA of any of the students, though no condoms were used (according to the accuser -- and physical tests showed no condom residue.) The accuser's own stories contradicted each other and everyone else's accounts of the evening, and were also in conflict with videotape and cell phone evidence.

According to the second dancer, SHE was the one that instigated the racial insults that culminated with the "cotton shirt" comment.

Ryan McFadyen's awful email was supposed to be a send-up of a movie many of the students had seen. And McFadyen wasn't one of the accused.

[demgurl]

100. I beg you to read up on the current facts of the case....

Please, please stop spreading these lies as others believe them, sometimes, without investigating them. The Duke players were found not only 'not guilty' but they were exonerated. Nifong purposely withheld evidence that proved, early on, that the Duke team was innocent. What Nifong did was not just messing up. He purposely withheld information and the justice system was upset enough that he ended up being disbarred. That was as a result of what HE did was wrong, not the Duke players.

I was raped almost 20 years ago but the event still stays with me and sometimes even haunts me. Spreading false facts about rape cases (on either side) makes it that much harder for the next victim to come forward AND the next real perpetrators to be convicted.

A rape is one of the most traumatic events a woman ever goes through and garbage like this makes it harder for the justice process to do what it is supposed to do. Perhaps people who write such drivel think they are helping women but it is in fact the opposite. I sit here so mentally disturbed over this that my stomach is churning.

Please try to help the cause of women who have had men force themselves on them. Help make this a place where guilty people go to jail for things they did, not what they could do or would do if they had a chance. That would be a Utopia for Bush when we live in a society where you are prosecuted for who you are and what your intentions COULD be. Help make America a safe place for women to come forward when they are raped. Change has to start somewhere and it could start with you.

[tammywammy]

141. Um, wow

I suggest you read something about the Duke case that isn't just crap.

And regardless, what does that have to do with the OP.

They're completely different situations. I hope the AG ca pursue this case.

[DKRC]

4. The Santa Clara County DA's site is a bad joke in view of this decision

http://www.sccgov.org/portal/site/da/

Mission Statement


A message from Dolores Carr, District Attorney:


"Thank you for visiting our Web site and learning about our office. I want the people of Santa Clara County to know that we work for you. We in the District Attorney's Office are making every effort to achieve the lowest crime rate reasonably possible while emphasizing the prosecution of violent crime. We want to make this community a safe place for you and your family."

I hope no one I know in Santa Clara has to depend on this DA for justice. I called the office and told them so, too.

[Hippo_Tron]

5. The AG Jerry Brown is looking into the matter

http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_156230104.html

He may ask the DA to press charges after further review.

[The Straight Story]

6. Thanks for the link

I saw that in one of the original articles I read on this case.

Will be interesting to see what comes of it.

[sandnsea]

9. Oh good

I trust that he will make sure political fall-out doesn't get in the way of justice for a young rape victim.

[Berry Cool]

11. Yeah, it sure sounds like this 17-year-old was not a "sex worker" (sheesh, how I hate that term)

so bringing up the Duke case is a complete red herring here anyway because it has nothing to do with this.

It was both a) illegal to get this girl drunk and b) illegal to use her drunkenness as an excuse to gang-rape her.

Intoxication is not sexual consent...even if the girl voluntarily drank.

These guys are in big, big trouble. At least I hope they are.

They are also very lucky she didn't die of alcohol poisoning or choking on vomit.

[militaryspouse]

13. ,,

never did understand how MULTIPLE men can rape one girl/woman, and not ONE step up and stop it.

[Solo_in_MD]

14. I'm with you there

[crikkett]

32. I do

[CrispyQ]

36. I can't get my mind around that either.

And this??? I can't even believe this!

"One of the guys who was in the room said 'This is her fault. She got drunk and she did this to herself.'"

[alarimer]

42. This particular groups sounds like a bunch of assholes

And THAT is why no one stopped it. And athletes at many schools, football or otherwise, lead a life of privilege that mere students do not have. So they get away with a lot of crap that would get most of us expelled from cheating on tests to actual crimes like this one. I have seen since I was in high school and college. Athletes almost always are treated as something special. I am sure that no one wants to prosecute this baseball team because then, they couldn't play ball or whatever. It's a sick, sick system we have.

[redqueen]

79. not men... monsters.

a man, had one been there, would have done something other than participate.

these were monsters.

[LostinVA]

103. Exactly!

[Clark2008]

158. And WHY would they all want to have sex with the same woman.

Not only would it be just GROSS, do these people not think about sharing fluids? About sexually transmitted diseases? I know college kids think they are invincible, but, surely someone would have had "STDs" cross his mind.

[LostinVA]

17. Good post n/t

[helderheid]

69. What you said.

:mad:

[OzarkDem]

119. Why is being a "sex worker" relevant?

Women who work in that capacity still have the right to refuse sex if they choose and certainly assault. Their legal rights are just as valid as any other person.

It would be wrong to assume that "sex workers" are not entitled to the same rights as everyone else.

[shance]

132. Exactly. Does that mean that because these people ask for services they can abuse that person?

It is men who ask for this service to be provided.

Guys want such a "service" and now its somehow the victim's fault for the actions the guys inflicted on them?

[Clark2008]

159. She just doesn't like that terminology.

I don't think Berry made a comment on whether the woman was a "sex worker," only that the terminology is, well, kind of silly.

[OzarkDem]

115. Except that they already passed on it

once before. The only reason they're taking a second look is because of public outcry and media coverage. Most women are too frightened and ashamed to even bother calling the police in these situations. The police and prosecutors should be serving as their protectors and allies, not weighing the political fallout.

[LisaL]

118. No they haven't already passed on it.

The prosecutor says she doesn't have evidence to prosecute it, but she asked AG to review the case. This is the first time AG is reviewing the case.

[OzarkDem]

122. Yes, they have

from the article linked in the OP:

"The District Attorney's office Tuesday said it is standing by its decision, while the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Department has stated it is not closing the case."

The DA's office decided not to do anything based on evidence (amazing how they came up with that decision). The Sheriff's department hasn't closed the case, but the Sheriff's department doesn't handle the prosecution.

They're only taking another look at the case because of the publicity. I'm not sure how they justify passing on it after it happened last March.

[LisaL]

147. Who are they? The person taking another look at the case is

not the Santa Clara County DA, but AG of CA. A completely different person. And it's actually not another look, but a totally new look, since AG has not looked at the case before.

[Solo_in_MD]

20. There has to be more than this to the story

My experience is that rape, especially that of a minor, is taken pretty seriously by just about everyone. That the County DA has not yet filed charges could be for any number of reasons. It is interesting to note that the victim and her family do not appear to have said anything about this publicly. A later post in this threads says that the State AG is looking into this, which is a good thing. Push comes to shove, there is always a Writ of Mandamus

[militaryspouse]

22. ...

The latest article I read said she couldn't remember if it was consensual or not. It sounds like maybe she's trying to downplay it to make it all 'go away'. Any one who has gang sex with a 17yro while she is vomiting,and out of is a rapist IMHOP!

[Solo_in_MD]

24. No argument from me

I want to believe that the DA has good reasons for not filing...not clear if they (the Santa Clara County DA) is allowed to disclose them or not.

[roguevalley]

109. fuck the duke case. this needs prosecution. this is fucked.

[Nikki Stone1]

62. I'll bet they are stepping more lightly due to the Duke case

I hope that's not true

[mondo joe]

64. Me too. Based on the part of the article about the St Christopher medals, it seems

clear the 17 yr old acknowledges she was wronged.

[Solo_in_MD]

65. I really don't think so, the cirucmstances are quite different

and the AG is a woman. I really have a hard time accepting that they would walk from a winnable case.

[NashVegas]

68. She's Probably Terrified to Be Nifonged

Maybe it's just my cynicism, but I've read enough about legal cases to gather the opinion that prosecutors withhold evidence all the time.

So you've got that.

A few years ago, there was a gang-rape case where three (?) boys, all from "good" families videotaped their actions on a drunk minor and got a hung jury! It took a retrial where they were found guilty of sexual assault - but not rape. All of this in the course of dragging their victim through the mud.

http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/sections/breaking_news/article_453868.php

[mrreowwr_kittty]

77. That OC case is just awful but get a load of this one:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-04-16-dungeon-rape_N.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267722,00.html For a picture of the cretin.

I couldn't find an article about the resolution of the case but I do know that this monster was found not guilty (by a mostly middle aged male jury surprise, surprise :eyes:) According to the defense, the girls willingly agreed to go into an underground dungeon and have sex with this grody creep in exchange for marijuana.

[Gormy Cuss]

153. More info: victim wanted to proceed with prosecution.

According to the DA, the DA's office declined in part to "protect" the victim.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/02/MNG7CQ6J771.DTL&hw=De+Anza&sn=010&sc=468

The victim was so intoxicated, they said, that she was unable to stand, speak or defend herself.

...

The soccer players can tell investigators how tall the man assaulting the girl was, his hair color and what he was wearing, but they didn't see his face. Only the other men in the room can identify him, and they aren't talking. The victim was examined at a hospital, and it's unclear what DNA evidence might exist.

"We believe a crime has occurred," says Cmdr. John Hirokawa of the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office, one of the investigators, "but to prove it is a different story."

What they don't agree on, and what has put Carr in the midst of a firestorm of criticism, is what should be done. Carr insists she is protecting the victim by not subjecting her to a trial, while those who speak for the girl say that she wants her day in court regardless of the outcome.



"The victim wants to go ahead," says Irene Weiser, founder of New York-based StopFamilyViolence.org, who read a statement from the victim at a Thursday demonstration in front of the D.A.'s office. "She's certainly seen the district attorney's comments, and she realizes she might not win. But it is not fair not to give this egregious wrong a hearing."

[JoDog]

21. The victim is a minor

and that may explain why neither she nor her family have spoken out publically. They may be trying to protect her identity. And it's very possible that local journalists know her name but are not publishing it because of her age. It's also possible that they have already gotten a lawyer who has advised them to stay under the radar for now. It is also not uncommon for rape victims to feel so ashamed that they don't want to talk about.

I want to send out big hugs to the 3 women who busted down that door. It would have been so easy for them to ignore what was going on, or to turn their backs out of fear that they could also be attacked. They did the right thing, and may they be blessed for it.

[Marrah_G]

30. Yes those 3 young ladies deserve a medal

Even if it was alcohol induced consensual sex those girls absolutely put themselves on the line and did the right thing. If I were their parents I would be very proud of them.

[ThomCat]

34. Absolutely. Those women are heroes.

And the guys in that room are criminals.

[alarimer]

45. If she was drunk, it CANNOT be consensual by definition

And she was a minor so it is in no way consensual anyway. They RAPED her whether she was drunk or not. The fucking pigs need to go to jail for a very long time.

[Goblinmonger]

53. I'm not on the DA's side

but isn't 17 over the age of consent in California?

The fact that she was so drunk she was puking seems to clearly indicate there was no capacity for giving consent.

[LisaL]

80. The DA says vomit did not come from the girl.

[lukasahero]

84. Do you have a link to that?

I may have just missed it but didn't see it in the article.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

92. Oh okay, well that would make it completely different

It could mean that she was vomited ON while being pronged by multiple men while she was in a drunken stupor. Or maybe she was laying in a pool of someone else's vomit while being pronged by multiple men while she was in a drunken stupor. And then being pulled away by 2 bystanders who were horrified by what they saw. But never mind that, now I can TOTALLY see why the DA finds insufficient evidence to prosecute! Nope, not political at all, nosirreebob.

:eyes:

[LisaL]

95. The case is being reviewed by the AG.

If he finds there is sufficient evidence to proceed, I fail to see why he won't do it. And if he doesn't find there is sufficient evidence to proceed, then obviously he won't do it, because proceeding with the case that doesn't have sufficient evidence is not going to do anyone any good.

[OzarkDem]

125. So?

Are you implying this somehow exonerates the rapists?

[LisaL]

149. So nothing. I am not implying anything, but correcting

erroneous information in the previous post.

[alarimer]

152. I don't know; I thought she was a minor

but maybe being a minor and being over the age of consent are two different things? I could be wrong about the age thing. Still, those guys are pigs regardless.

[originalpckelly]

23. Did they collect DNA evidence, pubic hairs or semen? Any cuts or bruises?

If so, then this is a highly irresponsible prosecutor.

If the base of the hair is there, it might be possible to extract DNA from it. And obviously the semen can be used to identify in that manner as well.

[lukasahero]

26. not true actually

Physical evidence is not what will determine whether or not the prosecutor will bring the case. I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not there was sex.

The question is 'was it voluntary'. And that, as we know, is what it always comes down to. "What was she doing there in the first place?" "She was drinking." "She didn't say 'no'." "She wanted it."

[originalpckelly]

37. The problem there is not that there was sex, but the particular guys who did it.

There will be reasonable doubt if the two (amazing and courageous) young ladies who saved that poor girl from being raped cannot identify the men involved.

You see what I mean, I hope.

Another problem with the testimony of these two ladies might be their mental state at the time as well, were they intoxicated, to what extent? Would it interfere with their ability to offer sound testimony?

Since the girl they rescued was taken immediately to the hospital, evidence of their intoxication or lack thereof could be provided by medical staff at the hospital, who hopefully collected evidence.

These are all things that the slimeball who eventually defends these guys will raise as reasonable doubt.

[lukasahero]

48. I guess we agree but are coming from it from slightly different perspectives

as I am beyond doubtful that this will ever see a trial. All of the things I mentioned and all that you mention here will be brought up/out in the media long before this goes to trial. We are already seeing unwillingness on the part of the prosecutor to bring it to trial for whatever reason.

I'll lay you 5 to 1 this never sees a courtroom.

As a result and back to your original post about "physical evidence", I just don't think it matters.

[Nikki Stone1]

61. Slimeball attorney is right.

Rape is the crime that keeps on giving.

[ourbluenation]

71. The law is that you have to be conscious to give consent. Plus, she was 17.

I think a case could be built.

[bettyellen]

31. nope, it takes more than DNA, if this gal was semi concious the team members

can say whatever they like. hopefully the two witnesses have strong enough testimony.
like most cases it boils down to he said /she said, but multiply the he said by 10.

[tblue37]

40. If she was drunk and semiconscious she cannot give consent. (eom)

[ourbluenation]

72. yep - and sex without consent is rape. eom

[bettyellen]

107. II am aware of the law, but if she blacked out , then they can CLAIM SHE CONSENTED and if she

if she doesn't know, it could be very difficult to prosecute. Especialy if you have 10 guys telling the same story. And the witnesses came in after the time when she would have supposdly given consent.

[OzarkDem]

116. and that's why DNA evidence is needed

it helps pinpoint who the perps were, even if she can't recall or was unconscious.

[bettyellen]

134. unfortunately, credible witness testimony is needed- this is why all rapes are so hard to

prosecute- the DNA only means ejaculation occured. not an attack. so, you also need the victim's testimony or physical signs of a struggle or witnesses to the beginning of the act (a very rare occurence). DNA with no testimony willl unfortunately not cut it. Perhaps if her intoxication level was extreme enough or she was drugged- but it won;t be a successful prosecution with no one's word against 10 men who are going to say she invited it.
Unfortunately- this is the norm for rape cases. most often it's he said/ she said.

[OzarkDem]

136. More evidence

Back in March, the young women claim they saw a 17-year-old high school girl being gang raped during a party. Both Grolle and Chief Elk say they noticed several De Anza College baseball players in the room -- one engaged in a sexual act -- but couldn't identify him.

But Bryeans was able to provide more details.

Lauren Bryeans, De Anza College Student: "What I saw was a young girl lying on her back on a mattress on the floor with a guy on top of her... and as that was happening I saw another individual come up to her and force oral copulation on her."

She gave sheriff's investigators the name of at least one of those young men.

Lauren Bryeans: "The one doing the oral copulation, I recognized his face."

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=local&id=5400970

[bettyellen]

139. but we both know they will say she begged for it, right? if there is no one to describe how

this began except for those team members- if no one saw her struggling, and this bit you posted is fairly sketchy in this regard- she's out of luck. They know it and planned it that way.
The prosecution needs more, the only thing I can think of is to prove she was too incapacitated to even agree to sex- maybe through her blood alcohol levels. (has anyone ever been prosecuted for that successfully though?) But again- if you have 8 witness colluding against her.. they'll make up s details sordid enough to make a jury hate her- as the lawyers of one of the players warns...

"We did our own investigation early on,.... snip.... we don't think a crime did occur. But I am not going to drag a 17-year-old girl through the dirt to explain what we found.''

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/03/MNG7EQ6QJ81.DTL

[OzarkDem]

143. I see your point

There's hope for the witness who saw the beginning of the oral rape when the girl was unconscious. I would also think it would be hard to prove she gave consent to have sex with the entire group before losing consciousness. Can't help but assume a jury would give the prosecutor the benefit of the doubt on this one.

[bettyellen]

148. juries are told that doubt can't enter into it at all- this is why the more common crime of

aquaintance rape is rarely prosecuted. even the flimsiest relationship becomes a well to draw filth about the victim from. always.
just like child abuse, it's easier to close ranks and scare the victim too- and people do not want to believe that people who "know" each other will do vile shit like this even though it's more common. but statistically a woman is more likely to be a victim of someone she once loved than it is to meet up with a random rapist or murderer. god forbid this girl ever had a fling with one of these guys- what wouldn't be too disgusting to say about her in court?

[Catherine Vincent]

146. She probably couldn't struggle.

With one guy on top and 10 other guys holding her down.

[bettyellen]

151. oh i know, she couldn't even stand up

it's very disturbing... i would think the new testimony that's out - where non consensual sex was initiated in full view of someone who can ID the attacker will crack this. i just saw that report and am wondering why that guy hasn't been charged.
i am certain they are all sticking with the "she begged for it" story. Very disturbing, I hope they find a way to prosecute.

[Marrah_G]

25. It doesn't say if the victim wanted to press charges

It's tough to prove a rape case if the girl refuses to testify. Perhaps in a little while she will change her mind and they can bring the students to trial and find out what really happened.

[LisaL]

35. It's not a problem of her changing her mind or not changing her

mind. The problem is the girl supposedly has no recollection of the events soon after she arrived.

[Marrah_G]

39. Ahhhh, well she might remember

Either way, I really hope she is okay and that her parents are getting her some help.

[Nikki Stone1]

41. Sounds like date rape drug

That often wipes out memory.

[originalpckelly]

44. Eggactly, I hope the hospital drew some kind of blood from her...

so that they could test it to see if she had common date rape drugs in her system.

[Nikki Stone1]

46. Her friends brought her to the hospital, yes?

I didn't get to read the whole story

[originalpckelly]

47. Indeed, these braves young ladies, who ought to receive some type of medal or something...

did the absolute right thing and got her to a hospital post haste! Absolutely perfect, we just have to hope that the hospital didn't fuck up in anyway that might damage the case.

[originalpckelly]

49. I forgot, they usually ask the victim to give urine...

I'm betting the drug would show up in the urine.

[Nikki Stone1]

51. How long do those things stay in the system? 24 hours?

?

[originalpckelly]

54. I don't think that would matter here as the victim was taken immediately to the hospital...

And if the drug was already effective on the victim, then it should show up in urine.

[Nikki Stone1]

56. Well, let's hope. NT

...

[Nikki Stone1]

50. Here's hoping. And congrats to the girls for their presence of mind

And you're right; a lot will hinge on the hospital report. Let's just hope that the team that gang raped the girl isn't connected to wealthy parents who can get things disappeared.

[originalpckelly]

55. It's pretty damn pathetic we even have to worry about our government...

being bought off in such a horrible way.

[Nikki Stone1]

57. Just looking at the current administration makes me more cynical than I ever thought I could be

Every government agency, starved for funds and packed with corporate cronies with no morals.

[High Plains]

86. Alcohol is by far the most widely used date rape drug.

[OzarkDem]

127. How is that a problem?

Particularly if there are witnesses and evidence that she was raped?

[Nikki Stone1]

59. She may still be quite traumatized. And if she was drugged and doesn't remember,

that could make it much much harder. Had her friends not been there, the full extent of what happened might never have been known.

[tammywammy]

138. Indeed

Very Scary, thank god her friends were there.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[w4rma]

66. Yup. This type of thing happens at some of these jock-hosted parties.

Part of the reasons that it goes unreported is because in that state it's hard to remember the situation and because the victim often likes and even idolizes the guys, although she never wanted something like this to happen. Also, following through on such a case can be a huge chore of paperwork.

[OzarkDem]

128. They're also terribly humiliated

and terrified. The rapists and their friends sometimes contact the victims and make threats to keep them from pursuing legal action.

My college roommate was gang raped in during my freshman year (back during the 1970's) by a group of guys at a frat party. I wasn't there that weekend, but the aftermath was horrible. She was stalked, harassed, etc. She was a straight A student but ended up getting expelled from school because of it. I was even stalked and threatened, got obscene phone calls in the middle of the night.

The rapists were "exonerated" and last time I checked the college alum directory, some of them were teaching high school.

[ourbluenation]

73. Here's our two heroes. Athletes, I might add. Sports can be very empowering for girls and women.

[nashville_brook]

76. good point!

[Beaverhausen]

97. One of them made a very profound and sad statement in the article

"It makes us think that no girl is ever going to want to come forward and say they were violated as this girl was, because they're going to think it doesn't even matter," says Chief Elk. "But it does."

What a fucked up situation.

[FloridaJudy]

102. Terrific picture!

These are the faces that deserve to be seen on magazine covers. Paris, Lindsey, Britney and the rest of that whiny self-indulgent crew should be discretely retired.

[progressoid]

74. the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Department has stated it is not closing the case.

Well, maybe there's a little hope the County Sheriff can make some progress here.

[LisaL]

81. They can investigate the case but they can't prosecute it.

It would not be the first time sheriff department and DA disagree on whether there is enough evidence to prosecute the case.
Unless AG decides to prosecute, the DA says she won't prosecute it.

[Lars39]

82. Do you have a link to the DA statements?

[NashVegas]

89. Wiki Has Some of It

And she specifically mentioned the Duke case.

In a news release, Why I Did Not File Charges, District Attorney stated:

* I must also respect our responsibility as prosecutors to the accused. As U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald said after deciding not to indict Karl Rove in the Valerie Plame spy case, "we either charged someone or we don't talk about them." The Duke lacrosse team case shows how statements by prosecutors can damage lives even when no charges are filed.

* And what of the three soccer players who witnessed men huddled around a man having sex with a teenage girl? I salute their honor and courage in intervening to rescue this girl from a horrible situation. But they only saw the last 30 to 60 seconds of a two hour party. The totality of the evidence of what happened that night would make it impossible for us to prove sexual assault charges beyond a reasonable doubt against anyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_De_Anza_baseball_players_rape_case

Oh my. And one of the defense attorneys contributed $1k towards Carr's election. Nice.

[OzarkDem]

129. Yep, DA afraid of Duke case

She's afraid to even discuss the case, let alone prosecute it. Its inexcusable. This case has set back women's rights by decades.

"The Duke lacrosse team case shows how statements by prosecutors can damage lives even when no charges are filed".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_De_Anza_baseball_players_rape_case

[Nikki Stone1]

154. Are rape victims going to have to go back in the closet?

Good God!

[wicket]

75. I'm going to be sick

:puke:

That poor girl. NO ONE asks for rape :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Catherine Vincent]

88. God!

I hate reading horrible stuff like this!!

[ceile]

90. Unbelievable!

Those girls were brave to go in there and get her. I'm glad the victim has them on her side (unlike the DA).

[havocmom]

91. If I get me a great big truck and force drunk drivers into ditches is it OK

Cuz they got drink and did it to themselves?

:wtf:

Time for women to FIGHT.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

96. I personally feel I should be able to rob any man who gets drunk around me now

I mean, he was clearly asking for it by getting drunk after waving all that cash in front of me. :sarcasm:

[NashVegas]

94. Jesus F-in Christ ... The DA is a Concern Troll!

This case fits that mold. Many of the witnesses had been drinking, some heavily, and their stories were not always consistent. But most important, the victim told investigators that she did not remember anything that happened from shortly after the time she arrived at the party. The victim would be unable to counter claims that she had consented. The trial would be fought over differing versions of the victim’s sobriety and behavior, with several witnesses and potential defendants motivated to paint her in an unfavorable light.

The result would be such a confusing and conflicting account of what happened that we would be unable to convince 12 jurors to convict. For example, the media reported that the victim vomited. But lab tests showed that the vomit did not come from her. The defense would challenge any account which depended upon the vomit to prove that the victim was too intoxicated to consent.

These cases depend upon a careful weighing of the facts. However, now that we have decided not to file charges, ethical responsibilities limit my ability to discuss all of the evidence in this case. My first duty is to the teenager, who did not choose to have her life dragged into the media. When we do not file charges, it is unfair to the victim to release details of the incident in order to justify our decision. Releasing such information would also discourage victims from reporting assaults in the future.

more ...

http://www.sccgov.org/portal/site/da/menuitem.311b6004a2316af82b9900dd5a30a429?path=%2Fv7%2FDistrict%20Attorney%2C%20Office%20of%20the%20%28DEP%29%2FNews%20and%20Events%2FNews%20Releases&contentId=652823f858dd2110VgnVCM10000048dc4a92____&cpsextcurrchannel=1



FYI, the kid who owned the house (specifically, whose family trust owns it in his name) was involved in a hit and run accident hours before the party. I wonder if he'll get prosecuted for that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_De_Anza_baseball_players_rape_case#_note-100

[mrreowwr_kittty]

99. The AG is looking into this and I hope he MAKES her prosecute it.

Then I hope she loses resoundingly in her next election because of this.

[LisaL]

101. It is my understanding that AG doesn't have to make her to

prosecute it. My belief is he can prosecute it himself, or appoint someone from his office to do it.
I don't think making her to prosecute it would be a good idea, considering if prosecutor does not believe she has evidence, she won't be effective if she is made to do it. So, if AG feels this is a prosecutable case, he should do it himself.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

104. Then fine, whoever. nt

[Catherine Vincent]

98. Which one will have the guts to turn themselves in?

De Anza College Baseball Roster 2007
# Name YR HT WT B/T Position High School
7 Abraham David SO 5'7" 175 L/R INF Bellarmine Prep
9 Baker Bryce FR 6'2'' 180 R/R RHP Kennedy
30 Barron Marc FR 5'10'' 170 L/R P/OF Andrew Hill
12 Benson Rick SO 5'10'' 155 R/R OF Calaveras Hills
24 Bommarito Tommie SO 6'4" 225 R/R OF Mtn. View
23 Cardenas Luis FR 5'6'' 190 R/R C Silver Creek
32 Carroll Steve FR 6'6'' 205 R/R RHP St. Lawrence
27 Chadwick Kenny SO 6'0" 215 L/R INF Branham
10 Fuentes Mark FR 5'9" 160 R/R INF Overfelt
16 Guarnera Cody SO 6'0" 210 R/R C Wilcox
3 Henry Steve FR 5'7'' 165 R/R C Leland
13 Kanzaki Ryan FR 5'10'' 165 R/R P/OF Westmont
44 Knopf Chris FR 6'0 200 R/R RHP Fremont
25 Madrigal Aldo SO 5'10" 235 R/R INF Mt. Pleasant
40 Maltbie Spencer SO 6'2" 200 L/L INF Los Gatos
38 Martinez Gabe FR 5'10" 180 R/R OF St. Francis
18 Matsumoto Kazuya SO 5'8" 140 R/R P Clark Memorial
45 Mitchell Tai SO 5'10" 200 R/R C Cupertino
2 Moniz Kalehua FR 5'9'' 175 S/R INF Baldwin, HI
26 Poss Brendon FR 5'11' 160 R/R RHP St. Lawrence
8 Rebagliati Steve SO 6'4'' 190 R/R INF Willow Glen
19 Righetti Scott FR 6'1" 215 R/R RHP Pioneer
22 Roby Brian FR 5'8'' 170 L/R OF St. Francis
11 Samuels Zach SO 6'2" 175 R/R INF Leigh
15 Sedin Robert SO 5'10" 170 R/R OF St. Francis
21 Skinner Chris SO 6'2" 170 R/R P/INF Del Mar
14 Wagner Jamie SO 6'0" 190 L/L P Leigh
4 Wells Adam C 5'9' 180 R/R C Leigh

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beaverhausen]

106. Another woman has come forward also claiming to be raped at this house

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1146637

[roguevalley]

108. good thing I didn't find this. I would have left ten dead bodies behind

fuckers. may they burn in hell for doing this to her.

[Xithras]

112. It's all about the evidence. And witnesses don't hold much water.

You're going to have two women saying they saw one thing, and ten guys saying they saw another. That's why it's rare for cases to be prosecuted just on witness statements.

You'll have 10 guys saying: "Your honor, she was sexually promiscuous and invited us all in for a gangbang. She was conscious when we began and started it herself."

Then you'll have these girls saying: "Your honor, we opened the door and saw these guys having sex with this one girl. We got her out of there."

Then you'll have the victim saying: "I don't remember."

The problem is, the testimony of the rescuers doesn't actually conflict with the testimony of the boys. It's legally plausible that both sides could be telling the truth. Without some other sort of evidence...the victim remembering saying no, blood tests showing rape drugs in her system, bruises or signs of struggle, or one of the attackers changing his heart and admitting to something, there's simply no evidence to prosecute on. They say voluntary gangbang. She doesn't remember. And the rescuers didn't see enough to really know which side is telling the truth.

And before anyone jumps on me and says "No woman would invite that", I invite YOU to look on Craigslist and AFF and see just how many women there are who like that sort of thing. Hell, my wife and I had a mutually non-monogamous marriage, and even though neither of us would ever do anything like that, we've both met people that do. Enough people DO partake in these activities to inject reasonable doubt into a case like this one...especially in the sexually open SF Bay Area.

This is why so many rapes go unprosecuted. He Said vs. She Said isn't enough to prosecute. You need evidence. It appears that the evidence in this case is lacking.

[cynatnite]

130. Many rapes go unprosecuted because a lot of women are scared...

they'll get treated like dirt and called names like liar and slut. They'll be blamed.

I had a good friend who was brutally raped and she reported it. When she gave her statement to the detective he treated her so badly that she left in tears and dropped the charges.

[Nikki Stone1]

155. This is exactly what I am afraid of.

That detective should have lost his job for that. Instead, the victim bears all the shame, guilt and pain.

[Nikki Stone1]

156. Xithras, in this case there should be evidence from the hospital

And if a date rape drug was administered, that should show up in the tests.

[Blue_Tires]

121. just when that whole duke thing was about to die on DU

ok...all of the duke lacrosse team apologists line up stage right, and all the prosecutor sharks in the court of public opinion line up stage left...FWIW i'm in the latter group, but i can hardly be considered unbiased:yoiks:

i wonder what the race of the victim is...no matter, i hope for her sake, she has a more saintly personal history than Mother Theresa, because the dirt-diggers are sharpening their pickaxes :hide:

[tammywammy]

135. I hope the AG pushes forward with this case

I would think with two witnesses to the activities would propel it into at least a grand jury. :shrug: Someone's that's passed out cannot consent to sex, let alone with multiple partners.

That girl will be in my prayers.

[LisaL]

144. This case has been through a grand jury already.

[Name removed]

137. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

142. Hopefully the police will be able to investigate enough to turn up evidence for a strong case

[Bucky]

165. This may be just me, but whenever I hear of a case like this....

I'm just waiting to hear Rush Limbaugh dismiss it as "typical college hijinx, no worse than a fraternity initiation."

[ComerPerro]

167. So where are all the people waiting to call her a liar and say it IS her fault? I know you're here..

[The Straight Story]

170. Damn, I hope not

But sadly we will probably hear that eventually...