Howard Dean to Mother Jones: "the netroots are incredibly sensitive to people who are phonies "

[madfloridian]

In an interview posted today with Mother Jones. This statement from the end of the interview caught my eye.

MJ: If there's a revolution in politics online, what part of the political establishment will be toppled and what part will still be kingmakers?

HD: The kingmakers will be people with powerful messages who treat people with respect, because the netroots are incredibly sensitive to people who are phonies and are just out there to manipulate. And frankly, politicians have tried it, and it hasn't worked for them. The people who are going to disappear are the people who think you can manipulate public opinion. That's why the Republicans are falling on their face right now. Because their own MO is to manipulate public opinion by rephrasing things in delicate ways and not be truthful about what's really going on. It's going to be almost impossible to make public statements that are not true and not have it eaten apart in 24 hours.

Interview with DNC chairman

More from the interview.

The interesting thing is that politics has changed because of the redemocratization of America, because if you know that you're on the record 100 percent of the time, you have to act accordingly. The worst situation is to be boring and not say anything, which is not a winning strategy. If you're authentic 100 percent of the time, you're going to make mistakes, which the media will pounce upon and distort. But you're also going to reconnect with ordinary people who make mistakes themselves every day in their lives. The Internet is forcing people to be more real and be less manipulative, which will result in an electorate that's less cynical. So it's a terrific innovation. The Internet is not just a tool, it is a community of human beings who are tired of what I call the "one-way campaign," which began essentially during the Kennedy-Nixon debates, where everything is on television. Well, it's not about communicating our message to you anymore; it's about listening to you first before we formulate the message. And that's how it should be used.

And he talks about the top down Republican message.

MJ: Do you think there's anything unique to the Democratic Party that gives it an advantage over the Republican Party on the web?

HD: Yes. The nature of Democrats has been more decentralized, more reliant on individuals to make their own decisions in their lives, much less top down. It's almost impossible to run a top-down model and succeed in the Democratic Party. The Net allows this enormous synthesis to go on at the grassroots level before it ever even gets to the party level. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of people in netroots are not right wingers. For right wingers it's all about top down: "Listen to me; here's the line of the day, and here's what you have to believe in order to be admitted to the club."

Nice interview.

[EFerrari]

1. This man's basic honesty comes through so clearly in his statements.

I hope someday I get to vote for him.

[madfloridian]

4. I hope so, too. This statement really moved me.

"The worst situation is to be boring and not say anything, which is not a winning strategy. If you're authentic 100 percent of the time, you're going to make mistakes, which the media will pounce upon and distort. But you're also going to reconnect with ordinary people who make mistakes themselves every day in their lives."

He was never boring, and there was new optimism every day in 03.

I don't feel that way now.

[EFerrari]

13. Really? For me, it's the other way around. Because in 03

I was working my remote off but worrying about election theft at every point and no one took me seriously. It was so frustrating. Then, watching the crime that was OH was horrendous.

This time out, the potential nominees aren't as attractive to me but I know our election protection infrastructure is much more solid -- and that gives me hope that our winner will be seated this time.

[madfloridian]

16. My point was missed. He was not afraid to be honest...

and he did give hope. To hear someone speak out.

If you are honest, you will make mistakes like most other people.

That was my point.

Now the candidates are still tippy toeing afraid to be honest because of the media and some groups within our party.

[EFerrari]

17. Oh -- I got that. And agree completely.

But my response is that we have a better chance of seating the tippy toers this time than we did of seating Dr. Dean even if the party had been smart enough not to tank him.

It's a mixed blessing. :(

/oops

[Alexander]

39. I'm proud I did vote for him, even though it was hopeless...

in the 2004 Arizona primary.

[madfloridian]

46. Our primary was almost a month after he dropped out...

we voted for him also. At that time our party leaders kept telling us it was a good thing to have a late primary. But now they are butting ahead of most everyone and dissing Dean and calling it his fault.

:shrug:

:shrug:

[hootinholler]

2. Explains why we're so out in front of the party...

Hey Howard! How do we get you guys to catch up?

-Hoot

[hippiechick]

3. The Good Doc gets it right.

As usual. :patriot:

Goddess, I love this man!! :applause:

[calimary]

32. Yeah, me too. Sigh...

I STILL love Howard Dean.

[emmadoggy]

5. Excellent. Spot on.

:kick:

[BurtWorm]

6. Gore-Dean '08!

:patriot:

[Cha]

23. That's IDEAL!~ Why do we aim

so HIGH!? :)

[Moochy]

7. This man gets it.

:kick:

[IChing]

8. So who is running a top down campaign these days?

"You and I" can only guess.

[IChing]

28. Or do I have to sing the song? n/t

[frazzled]

9. Well, it sometimes takes the netroots a while to catch onto phonies

Remember Bev Harris? Some of us sensed she was a huckster from the get-go; but she took over the Internets for quite some time before the phoniness became all too apparent. This is not an isolated example.

[yurbud]

11. Bev brought attention to a real issue. the personal attacks serve no purpose but to distract from

that.

[On the Road]

35. In "Bringing Attention" to the Issue,

Bev did more to discredit it than most of its opponents. By doing things such as fabricating entire events to get people to donate a little more money. And that is outside of the whole Andy S thing.

[Warpy]

10. Unfortunately, Dr. Dean doesn't seem to be aware of

the masses of people who avoid net news and politics and go right for the celebrity gossip, games and porn. 50% of this country is just bone deep pig ignorant and those are the ones who can be fooled every time.

Dean represents the best of us, not the mediocre or the barely acceptable. He's the kind of guy I'd want to have a beer with (if I could drink) because he wouldn't slap me on my painful back and bore me to tears with stupid frat stories. I hope I get to vote for him some day, too.

However, we have to come to terms that half the people in the world don't fit his view of it. The only way to get through to those people is for the party to stand up tall and FIGHT those GOP bastards, to be a real opposition party standing for the people.

Dr. Dean is fighting a losing battle while the supine are still in power in his own party and it doesn't matter how the GOPs are exposed as liars and frauds.

[madfloridian]

12. Oh, trust me, the man is so aware of people like that.

All of us are.

[EFerrari]

15. The GG&P folks -- do they even vote? What I respect about Howard

is that he's a teacher. He's eliciting and re-enforcing some very positive citizen behavior. And it seems to come very naturally to him, doesn't it?

He makes people want to do more and do better. That's a gift, imho.

Edit: That's what a good leader looks like. :)

[Morgana LaFey]

24. Amazingly true -- in fact, during his campaign when the blog was

active and hundreds of people were posting each day, I remember one person posting this: "He makes me want to be a better person." It was something many of us felt. He inspired and ennobled us. That's a level of born leadership that comes along not all that often.

[EFerrari]

25. I was not a Deaniac although Doug was. I hung back to see,

half knowing the DLC would tank him because he was too independent for their little pointed heads.

It was after he was smeared and watching how he conducted himself and how he found a positive way to stay engaged -- even when Pelosi backed someone else for the Chair -- that I thought, this is a real leader, not Memorex.

He's the real deal. And I would work for him in a heartbeat. :)

[Morgana LaFey]

59. That's true praise coming from you

And yes, he is the real deal. THE most principled human in politics that I know of. Also the most visionary, prescient and downright psychic at times. On that score, he commented in one interview (not asking him about his psychic powers) that he often does things a certain way but only comes to find out later why. IOW, he takes input in from a variety of sources, it sort of stews in his mind, and then he makes decisions that surprise even him (and are usually if not always right, I'll add) -- and only later he realizes why he did it that way.

He is always at least 1 year ahead of everyone else, politically speaking.

Did you ever read his American Restoration Speech? The one he used to formally announce his candidacy? It's stunning, esp. when you realize that he's a man who MEANS what he says -- it's not just empty rhetoric.

[janx]

53. That blog was a riot.

Remember the troll funds? :rofl:

[Morgana LaFey]

61. Oh, God. I'd forgotten about that. Too funny. Thanks for the laugh --

For anyone not aware of what janx is talking about -- the blog was open to anyone. So of course we had trolls come on and try to disrupt. When that would happen, we'd all gang up and make contributions to Dean. The more trolls, the more contributions. It was hilarious. And it certainly kept the troll traffic down a bit too. But what a creative aikido-type response to the problem, eh?

[ellisonz]

26. One step at a time...is there any other way?

"Dr. Dean is fighting a losing battle while the supine are still in power in his own party and it doesn't matter how the GOPs are exposed as liars and frauds."

A great deal of energy was spent on the part of some political scientists to prove that Democrats who won in 2006 were "moderates," and not liberals. The problem with this typification approach is that ignores the essential meaning of humanity. :eyes:

I have a book for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Praise_of_Folly

[progressoid]

51. Yep, one only need look to a certain Freie Republik to see it.

Sadly, I'd guess more than half of the people in the world don't fit his view. While there are some bright lights in the USA (and on the net), we mostly live in a country of buffoons. Hannity, Rush, et. al. know this and feed on it.

[janx]

14. K&R

:hi:

[getmeouttahere]

18. While I agree with the Good Doctor's assertions....

being on the record 100% of the time hasn't stopped BushCo from lying and distorting til the cows come home...and beyond.

[EFerrari]

And him going on the record with his lies has earned him

a 20% +/- approval rating. So, the Bush case verifies Dean's point. People can spot a phony.

[hfojvt]

37. then why did he get more than 20% of the vote in 2004?

He was just as phony then, and the internets were well established. Something Dean seems to forget is that the liberal blogosphere does not have 1/100th the readership of the NYTimes or WaPo or USA Today, or the viewership of CBS news (although those two may be converging) or the listenership of Limbaugh. Political blogs seem to draw two types - the partisan convinced, ready to preach their fiery sermons to a choir of sycophants or to say 'amen' to the sermon of another, and the partisan unconvinced, looking for opposition lunacy that he/she can ridicule, debunk, or to otherwise create strife in the opposition community.

Although the first characterization does not seem fair to DU since we have a spirited debate on almost all issues. However, it often seems to be a debate between two closed minds, hurling invective and/or contempt at the other rather than trying to understand, convince, or find common ground.

[EFerrari]

52. I agree that he was just as phony then. And I happen to believe

2004 was stolen. No way that felon won that election. I don't want to hijack this thread but, there have been indictments in OH over that election and Mr. Conyers spent a long time recording evidence.

You are right about the numbers but the trend is more people resorting to the net while papers and teevee's numbers are tanking. :shrug:

[KoKo]

19. K&R....Thanks "Mad" it's a great read....inspiring...!

[tanglefoot]

20. Brilliant!

I knew there was a reason I always liked that man. My state party chair could benefit from the doctor's advice.

[Scout1071]

21. Amen.

[Cha]

22. Dean is learning so well

how to frame messages in a truthful manner that resonates with people!

He's so inspiring..I don't see him losing EVER because if he's knocked down he'll just get up and keep on plugging away in that inimitable style of his!

So Recommended!

[madfloridian]

30. Still inspiring.

I have been really down about our Democrats lately...but I think he will speak out if things get too comfy with the GOP. I really do.
I read this from an interview he did in Vermont yesterday...interesting. Sounding feisty.

"As for the rest of the new world that’s home to Howard Dean these days, Vermont’s former CEO through the 1990s said, “The rules inside the Beltway are different than the rules outside the Beltway. I generally do not cover for people who I think have really done bad things,” said Dean.

...."“For example,” he continued, “if the environmental bill comes out with taking away the states’ power to go over and above the federal laws, I’m not going to support the environmental bill, and I’m going to make it very clear that I don’t support the environmental bill!”

.."In fact, the former Vermont doctor-governor said, “There is a disconnect between what the public sees in the press and what actually goes on in Washington.”

.."The current boss of America’s Democratic Party conceded, “There’s a learning curve that goes on when you’re not in the majority for 14 years, and I think you’re seeing some of that.”

[Cha]

45. Dean is so

intelligent! And Feisty! Thanks for this, mad.

They better not pass that bill “if the environmental bill comes out with taking away the states’ power to go over and above the federal laws"..the bushits are sucking up all the power they get their grubby hands on but we've got to stop them from killing our air, and poisoning our water!

[tnlefty]

56. I'm not trying to hijack your thread, but since you mentioned VT

here, you may find this amusing.

Either last Sun. or the one prior the nut who writes the illogical, short mini rants as part of the editorial page in the Chattanooga paper took a slap at the state of VT, Howard Dean and Bernie Sanders in relation to the secession movement by the Middlesbury Institute (I think). Anyway, it wasn't mentioned that this is going on in states besides VT and I don't know whether Dean or Sanders are even involved or not, but facts don't matter to this nut. Anyhoo... the BEST part is:

The next large scheduled meeting is in Chattanooga in October!!!! He'll s*^t a brick over that for sure and I'll be LMAO to say the least!

Thanks for posting this interview. :hi:

[madfloridian]

58. That's funny.

I love Vermonters...I like their attitudes.

BTW that interview in part was at Seven Days by Peter Freyne....but there was so much of the Ho Ho stuff I did not post it. I would love to hear the audio, though without Freyne's Ho Ho comments.

Funny about that secession stuff.

[xxqqqzme]

50. Dean caught on to the framing thing early

I know he took Lakoff to heart. Howard can frame anything. It is an art he was born to use. Too bad other high profile democrats haven't bothered to learn from Lakoff - hello Reid? Pelosi? get a clue

[ellisonz]

27. Death to the Pharisees.

}( :sarcasm:

:applause:

[madfloridian]

29. Heh heh

:hi:

[ellisonz]

40. On Phonies

"You never saw so many phonies in all your life, everybody smoking their ears off and talking about the play so that everybody could hear and know how sharp they were. Some dopey movie actor was standing near us, having a cigarette. I don't know his name, but he always plays the part of a guy in a war movie that gets yellow before it's time to go over the top. He was with some gorgeous blonde, and the two of them were trying to be very blasè and all, like as if he didn't even know people were looking at him. Modest as hell. I got a big bang out of it."

Ch. 17, The Catcher in the Rye, J.D. Salinger.

"Lawyers are all right, I guess— but it doesn't appeal to me," I said. "I mean they're all right if they go around saving innocent guys' lives all the time, and like that, but you don't do that kind of stuff if you're a lawyer. All you do is make a lot of dough and play golf and play bridge and buy cars and drink Martinis and look like a hot-shot. And besides. Even if you did go around saving guys' lives and all, how would you know if you did it because you really wanted to save guys' lives, or because you did it because what you really wanted to do was be a terrific lawyer, with everybody slapping you on the back and congratulating you in court when the goddam trial was over, the reporters and everybody, the way it is in the dirty movies? How would you know you weren't being a phony? The trouble is, you wouldn't."

Ch. 19, ibid.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Catcher_in_the_Rye

[Kurovski]

31. K&R.

Dean doesn't care much for the trolls! :D

[madfloridian]

33. Best part: He says if you are authentic you will make mistakes...

and the media will distort but people who also make mistakes understand.

"The worst situation is to be boring and not say anything, which is not a winning strategy. If you're authentic 100 percent of the time, you're going to make mistakes, which the media will pounce upon and distort. But you're also going to reconnect with ordinary people who make mistakes themselves every day in their lives."

Excellent statement.

[BlooInBloo]

34. ... which is *everybody*. We're a very sensitive group. :)

[eridani]

36. Do you remember when few activists even gave a rat's posterior who was DNC chair?

When Dean was nominated, it was the first time I ever even thought to wonder who my state DNC reps were and how they were elected. Now I know, and from raw newbie to legislative district committeewoman was four years. Many of our state parties could still stand to be more transparent about their processes, and do more to empower local Dems.

I'm still learning about when on-line is better than shoe leather, and vice versa of course.

[Demeter]

38. That's Where Hillary Screws Up

"It's almost impossible to run a top-down model and succeed in the Democratic Party. "

Hillary is running a top-down campaign and getting no traction. What profiteth the woman, if she gains the GOP and loses the Democratic nomination?

[Le Taz Hot]

43. It's more than Hillary.

Kucinich and Gravel are the only ones NOT running a top-down model.

[Toots]

41. Republicans =Top down or "Trickle down" and Democrats = bottom up or People Power

I prefer the Democrat's approach myself even if so many Americans need to be told how to think and to Never Question Authority...It takes a brave person to do it onb your own instead of relying on others to tell you how to do things. One reason Republicans are mostly Cowards. They do not endorse independent thinking.

[DFW]

42. The great thing about Howard is

He rattles off answers like this spontaneously, and
without reflection. This is how he really feels. This
is not canned soundbyte crap, carefully packaged and
memorized like in some Republican candidates' "debate."
He doesn't need to memorize some prepared routine. All he
has to do is articulate what is really on his mind, and it's
a thousand times better than any Republican talking head
could possibly hope to offer.

He'll probably never be president, but it's our loss.
We are VERY lucky he was still interested enough, after the
humiliating 2004 debacle, to try to work for the good of the
party.

[Cha]

47. Really Cool pic with

Dean, DFW!

[DFW]

55. Thanks!

Howard is a friend from about 6 years back, when he was Howard Who?
We still get together every year around New Years and keep in touch
by email, although as he has more and more to do in his job, his emails
get shorter and shorter! LOL

One thing he and I have in common is a passion for guitar playing and
a love of Leo Kottke's 12 string guitar music. Not that I'd appreciate
him any less if he were not musical, but that makes him extra special
in my eyes.

I will post about this later, but I recently had something published
in a world-wide conservative publication (much to my immense surprise),
and who sends the first notes of appreciation? Helen Thomas and Howard
Dean, of course. Some people still take the time to remember friends, no
matter how busy or famous they are. Now, THAT'S class!

[madfloridian]

57. Did you say guitar?

[DFW]

60. I sure did! :-)

[Time for change]

44. My admiration for him has only grown since he got knocked out of the 04 presidential race

I believe he's an ideal person to be leading the Democratic Party.

[Tom Rinaldo]

48. Howard, as almost always, truly gets it

And our ability to mobilize millions of potential fact checkers, and to instantly "publish" our findings, it the most encouraging counter we have to the increasing concentration of wealth into fewer hands in America today.

[riona]

49. There's definitely something happening

and it's not coming from the top down. Al Gore is making a stronger appearance in the Gallup Poll and he's not even an announced candidate.

[Uncle Joe]

54. I believe Howard Dean sees the big picture, excellent interview!

Thanks for the thread madfloridian.

Kicked and recommended.

[demoleft]

62. Modern, brief, effective...

...good to hear, healthy to enjoy. Another word invested in People's trust and not in Risiko game.
A refreshing interview on the side of activists and a call to awareness to many politicians too greedy for career and so poor in democratic attitude - I'm referring to the European situation, as the conflict between leaders and activists is a topic here also.

Thanks Madfloridian. If I was Dean I'd take you in my staff. You love what you do and do what you believe it's right.
It's far more than what many pretend to do, even on the progressive side.

Ciao!

[ProgressiveAmPatriot]

63. Dean is an extremely smart progressive politician, as always I like what he has to say n/t