Is it time to talk about our philosophy? Time to discuss in full

[yy4me]

the question of all types of immigration?

We are all proud of our history and of the fact that this country was founded by a vast and diverse immigrant population. I am sure that every country in the world can say the same thing. At some point, people from somewhere else moved in and added to the population of every country.

Does it reach a point that the "give me your tired, your hungry, your huddled masses" becomes a phrase that is out of date?

Is it time to more closely regulate our existing laws and create new ones that would protect us from the continuing onslaught of people who belong in the country of their birth? By that I do not mean the regulated, wait your turn immigration, but the illegal "just get here" type that would eventually lead to the same rights and benefits as our citizens.

At what point are we going to say that it is enough that we support so many at the expense of our own citizens?

I do not feel it is cruel to think along these terms. Everyone I know is expressing the same feelings. We need to take care of those people in America...American Citizens...who are in serious need in all aspects of their life.

We feed, clothe, educate, house and otherwise help people who do not belong here and yet we let Americans die for lack of healthcare. We allow children to go to bed hungry. We cannot help those who get into financial difficulty because their jobs are sent to a third world country. The list of needs is long.

We ostracize the elderly as a drain on the system because they are collecting Social Security for which they paid. We have also jeopardized the right to the same benefits to future generations through fiscal mismanagement. Yet, with this crisis, we would still give this benefit to illegals if we grant amnesty. As I read it, if you are here at age 61 and amnesty is granted, you can collect Social Security at age 62.

With all this, congress is considering expanding its spending to include all types of care for those who came or will come illegally.

I am at a point where I wonder if it is time for all of us to just say "no". It is not, in my mind, a humanitarian issue. We can give aid to the countries of the world that need it but what about help for our own citizens.

Is it time that serious issues like this appear on a national ballot? We have given our individual voices to a Congress that does not listen. I would venture to guess that if we had a national referendum, a "close the border and regulate immigration" motion would be passed by a large margin. It would then be required that the government do "the will of the people"

We are burdened by a debt so huge that it is not comprehensible, and now we will add it it.

We have taken away from our populace the right to freedoms once held as sacred.

[Zensea]

1. people are not "illegals"

That's as nasty a phrase as illegitimate when referring to children.

Even without reading your post in detail (and I did read it in detail) all I need to know is summed up in using the word "illegals" to describe someone.

Therefore it is not a surprise that in your mind it is not a humanitarian issue.
Doesn't matter if it is in your mind or not, it is a humanitarian issue.

You know, in some people's minds the military is using "enhanced interrogation techniques," and not torture.

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. Myself, I think we NEED the tired and poor.

If the immigrants we get are the educated, wealthy ones what we are getting are the selfish, entitled people who came here at the expense of their own nation to improve their already better than normal situation.

I would not want Lady Liberty to say 'Give us your selfish, your entitled, your select elites yearning to gain more'.

Those who risked life and limb, those who had nothing to lose are the ones who built this country and gave it its unique character. There may be no frontiers left, but in a sense WE are the frontier, where a person can arrive with nothing and make of himself what he will, without regard as to his place of origin or the status of his birth. Therefore, we still draw the pioneers - those who are willing to risk walking away from the poverty, and security, of the dirt farm in Mexico to cross mountains and deserts to come to a land where, by their hard work, they can become more than the semi-literate dirt farmer.

As for you, are you really afraid you can't compete in the job market with some foreigner who doesn't even speak the language or understand the culture? Judging by your writing you are intelligent and educated - what are you so afraid of? Is some Mexican going to take your lettuce picking job away?

WE are not supporting the immigrants. They are supporting themselves. Just as every immigrant group before them has. A hundred years ago people were saying that we could never assimmilate such huge numbers of East European Jews and Italians. Most those saying so were the descendents of the huge waves of Irish, who themselves would never be assimmilated because of their Papist religion and inveterate drunkenness.

The money spent in Iraq this year alone would repay everything 'borowed' against Social Security to date. We can control the corporations' outsourcing if we try - we are still the largest market in the world and we CAN influence them to play by the rules, and keep jobs in this country if they want to do business here. It's a strange dichotomy to blame immigrants coming here for jobs going elsewhere.

As for Social Security, that is a straw man argument. Nobody collects at 62, and how many of the people hiking through the desert are 61? The overwhelming majority of the immigrants are young and healthy and will pay into the system for decades before collecting anything from it. And while there is a base minimum that citizen collect, what we collect is based upon what we've paid in. Undocumented workers, working with false papers, have been paying in for years and many will never collect.

What you have laid out as a thoughtful argument is, in truth, nothing but a fearful screed.

What are you afraid of?

[OHdem10]

3. Us Democrats would do well to listen to you.

We continue to rub our working class and working poor faces in
the mud.

We are ignoring the masses White Poor Americans--Oh I forgot
maybe we do not care about them. They believe the Democrats
abandomed them long ago. I hope they are wrong. We could
not handle Katrina--Money problems. Obvious case.

Every person who has any influence at all in Washington needs
to go around this country--see for themselves how people
native born Americans are living or just making it. Generosity
is a indeed a beautiful virtue. Charity begins at home.

I am not anti-immigrant. I am saying-- who is looking at the
circumstances in this country as decisions are being made
which hugely affect all of our futures.

Sometimes, I get the feeling Congress develops Legislation with
tunnel vision--no consideration on how this affects the country
as a whole.

If I followed my heart, heck if I had the money I would
bring these "poor" immigrants in and assist them. My head
says we have to consider a variety of concerns. We do them
no favcors if we bring them in only to form a permanent
underclass of them.

The time is coming for a revolt in this country.

So Has the Pres. of US Chamber of Commerce and K Sreet
twisted enough arms to get the Immigration bill back on
track. Sarcasm.

You are correct--some serious thinking--not just reflexive
actions should be done.