New houses vs. old houses.

[raccoon]

I’ve heard some on DU say new houses are shoddily built. Anecdotal or other evidence, anyone?

Another thing I don’t like about them is most of the time, they’re two-story. I don’t want to have to climb up and down stairs in my golden years.

I’m used to old houses, but so many times they need major work—rewiring, replumbing, and so on. I can’t do that sort of stuff so I’d have to pay somebody else to do it all.

I’m not looking for a house right now, but I’m in the thinking-about-it stage.

Any thoughts?

[Captain Hilts]

1. Wallboard is NO substitute for plaster. It doesn't block noise. Newer houses...

have better wiring.

But, especially in an apartment buidling, always opt for buildings with plaster walls.

[Clark2008]

2. I like older houses, myself.

I'm sure there are new houses that aren't shoddily built - I'm not a home inspector, so I can't give you an educated response; however, they simply don't "look" all that well-built in most cases.

Still, that's not the No. 1 reason I don't like them. I don't like them for their appearance. Most don't have any trees surrounding them and are generally in neighborhoods where the houses are simply too close together. I don't want to look out the window and see my neighbor's butt as he changes underwear. :)

[n2doc]

3. Depends on the builder

Some new houses are fine, some are piles of crap. The one thing about older houses is that if there are catastrophic problems they are generally obvious. With a new house, if the foundation is crap or the construction flawed, it can take time for it to appear. But you will have fewer things to repari/replace in a new house, if built right.

When you do get to looking, be sure to spend some time in the attic and basement (if present). The plumbing and wiring will tell you alot about if the house was built with pride (or not)

[rurallib]

4. We live in an old two story 1940 vintage

Real plaster, real wood, 2X4s that are 2" X 4". Solid as a rock. Ours is also well insulated BUT ...
we have had to replumb and rewire. I am not handy either, so we had it done a bit at a time. Also the windows are leaky. We cover up with plastic in the fall each winter. Fortunately in our small town some of the service folks are not outrageous.
I love 2 story houses. It is often like another apartment to hide from the kids or spouse when you need some time. Plus it is very much more efficient to heat up than to heat out. We are approaching 60 with some arthritis and stairs are not a problem.

[Clark2008]

7. We have a 1940s house, as well. Brick on a solid wood structure.

We do know about some structural damage under the porch, but it can easily be shored up with another cinderblock wall as it's only under the porch and not a big load-bearing floor.

Our plumbing was almost entirely redone before we moved in - PVC and copper, thankfully, and we had some wiring done before we moved in per the old owner expense.

A previous owner also had thermal Pella windows put in throughout. It's a great home - people have loved it and taken care of it and we're to the benefit of that love, now.

[rurallib]

21. Our woodwork and wood floors will never be matched.

[hobbit709]

5. There are tradeoffs

Older houses are more solidly built, probably have finished settling. But the wiring and plumbing may not be up to par. Newer houses use cheaper construction techiques, a lot of times the foundation is not real solid, the wiring may or not be up to snuff. The main problem with the foundation slab construction is if you have a plumbing problem, you have to jackhammer the slab to get at the pipes. A friend of mine had that problem with her washer drain connection, $200 to fix the pipe $2000 to get at it. She just runs a hose from her washer to the inspection cap on her sewer line outside.

[moc]

12. Re: Foundation leaks.

Sorry for the barge, but I have some experience with this. Where I live (North Texas), most of the houses dating back to the 60s-70s are slab foundations. (Prior to that, it was predominantly pier and beam. No basements in this part of the country.)

Our house is 40 years old, and we had a foundation leak. However, it was covered by our homeowners insurance. Our insurance covered the diagnostics to find the leak, the work it took to get to the leak, and the repair work to return the floor etc to original condition. We only had to pay for the actual repair of the pipe plus our deductible. I think our total outlay was something like $375.

This may not be your friend's situation, but just in case, I thought I'd point out that in my area at least, foundation leak repairs are largely covered by insurance.

[HamdenRice]

6. I live in an old house and have done some work on it

The biggest difference is that the indoor walls of very old houses are made from plaster and lathe, not drywall. That makes them very heavy, and provides more insulation. The house tends to hold the cool from the spring into the first weeks of summer. Also, here on the east coast, even during the hot weather, the late nights/early mornings are cool, so you can capture the cool and close the windows during the day.

I think but am not sure that they are more expensive to heat in the winter.

I suspect, but don't know for sure, that overall, it consumes less resources to rehab and live in an old house than to construct a new one.

[Henryman]

13. Older houses may cost more to heat but....

I have a 1920's Chicago brick bungalow. I don't have to turn on the heat or AC for about 6 months out of the year. I still haven't turned the air on yet this summer. These were built to stay cool with overhanging eves and cross-drafts through the house. My sister has a beautiful new house that has no cross breeze, so the AC or heat is always on to move air. I love my old house.

[Warpy]

8. All new houses have to be built to code

and that should indicate that minimal standards have been met and the place won't tumble down around your ears before the mortgage gets paid.

However, there are things to watch out for in newer construction, like PVC water lines buried in slabs, aluminum wiring in places built in the late 70s to late 80s, and I'm sure other folks on this board can come up with other lousy ideas that seemed OK at the time. I'm personally not too keen on all steel construction, but that's just me. I hang stuff on the wall, and I need wooden studs in the wall for those shelves that support heavy things.

Newer houses are generally better built than the 100 year old antiques, built when there were no codes. They lack the charm, though. It will take them 100 years to grow any.

"They don't make them like they used to" is the refrain for the nostalgic, but recognize that sometimes that's a good thing. They used to make them with BX wiring, studs that were 24 inches apart, support beams that were sistered together, lead water lines, and a lot of other stuff no sane person really wants to cope with unless they're extremely wealthy and able to live elsewhere while the place is rebuilt.

[LiberalFighter]

9. They are not all 2 story. Mine is a ranch built 20 years ago

Only thing, I will never believe anyone when they say it is quality work when they use Amish labor.

As for golden years, design the house so you have a bedroom on the first floor any additional bedrooms are on the 2nd floor. Enough space on the first floor for your regularly used items. And 2nd floor for storage as you get to that point.

Are basements standard there?

Land will dictate whether you can have a single level home.

If you do build new. Make sure it is technology ready for easier future sale. Ethernet, FIOS, cable, etc. It is more difficult to install if there isn't a basement.

[Minimus]

10. I purchased a new house six years ago. There a certainly pros and cons

Working with a builder you are able to get what you want but some builders certainly try to cut corners so you pretty much have to stay on top of them to make sure they follow the plans and specs.

One horrible disaster I experienced: I went to check the progress one day and discovered they had sprayed on my ceiling. My contract was for a smooth ceiling. They tried to talk me into keeping the sprayed on, but I made them remove it and do it right. What a mess they had to deal with and it cost the builder a pretty penny to have the drywall contractor fix it.

I think its some of the developer neighborhoods, where every other house is pretty much the same, are the ones built so quickly and shoddily. Find a reputable builder and have them show you other homes they have constructed.

I do like the charm of an older home but I too am not able to do any of the fixing up that they sometimes need.

It would be great to find an older home that someone has already refurbished - Seems they are more costly though.

Good luck to you whatever you decide!

[Lex]

11. My house was built in 1925. Been rock solid for 80+ years.

Thick plaster walls, hardwood floors, big tall windows, interior/exterior solid wood doors, and a front porch built for rocking chairs and cool evenings.

Love it.

But I'm partial to it. :hi:

[unpossibles]

14. I love my 115 year old house most of the time

it needed work, but I used to do some construction work professionally, and am not adverse to (a) learning new things or (b) hiring someone to do some contract work.

It's brick and rock solid, and while I ended up redoing some things like plumbing and wiring, the house needed enough work that it's not been too bad. What's funny is, the various work done to it over the years has been as bad or worse than the old stuff - like when I started exposing the brick and studs to redo things, I saw some shockingly bad rewiring work, and the loop-the-loop plumbing that smelled bad and needed to be replaced. These were all done after the invention of building codes, but the codes were ignored. generally, if I am doing something and putting a lot of work and money into it, I don't understand why someone would NOT want to follow code for so many reasons.

So yeah, the studs are not evenly spaced, but they are rock hard and true 2"x4"s and stronger than almost any wood I could buy today. Hell, I burned out a drill and a jigsaw just making some access holes for wiring because the wood's so hard.

We also put on modern gutters and new triple pane energy saver windows, and can feel the difference. Luckily our neighborhood is not considered "Historic", so we're able to modernize a bit, but have also tried to keep as much of the character of the house as we can.

The down side is it's hard to get a free weekend because I've been busting my butt working on it mostly myself.

[bunkerbuster1]

15. Lots of good stuff here already. I'll add the obvious...

I've owned both a 1940s and 1990s vintage home.

Older houses tend to have been designed for people with very different kinds of expectations. Fewer bathrooms, generally smaller rooms, obviously not set up for wheelchair access (24"-28" doorways common). That's not all bad, but there will be times if you go for an older house, when you'll be jealous of your friends with the kitchen designed for two people to work in (for example) and the spare bathroom and so forth.

Yes, you can rehab an old house to make it more modern and livable. The results are sometimes amazing, and sometimes beyond lame. And sometimes both--the homeowner thinks it's great, but the potential buyer, down the road, says "what were they thinking?"

[fed-up]

16. be sure to check w/police-sheriff-neighbors to see if house ever had a meth lab

I am still waiting over 45 days to get documentation from our local officials that there was a meth lab on my property. They have told me verbally that there was and it is posted online in their database. I am awaiting the paperwork so I can get a lawyer and sell the house back to the former owner. Testing/Clean-up costs can run from $5k-$100k if shed needs to be torn down and all soil needs to be removed and hauled to a toxic waste dump.

Some states do not require the seller to disclose anything, some states do not require the seller to disclose if building has been "certified" clean by a professional cleaning company. There are stories of homeowners that bought supposedly "clean" houses that years later tested positive. Yes, the stuff leaches back through sheetrock.

Evidently the cook poured his toxic waste onto the gravel driveway and yard and my dog has had bloody diarrhea twice in the past month. She is no longer allowed in the yard.

Old-versus-new

I prefer the character and charm of an older house.

Some older houses have been upgraded w/electrical, plumbing, insulation etc.

Some older houses may have lead paint, asbestos etc.

[L. Coyote]

17. Depends on who built the house. Was it Jack, or some Jerk?

Many new homes are far superior to old construction. Codes require earthquake and wind resistance like never before, strapping and anchoring, metal ties, etc. Many large, architectural homes are engineered construction, designed to withstand 8.0 quakes and hurricanes. Even then, how skilled was the work crew at building and installing these important aspects of the house. Did the carpenter actually put nails in the places the inspector can't see? etc.?? A lot of people work to build each home, myriad specialists.

There are a lot to positives about tight homes with good weather sealing, 6 inch walls with R-21, R-40 ceilings, especially energy savings. But new homes may have been built with materials containing harmful chemicals, and tight construction keeps them concentrated inside. Brand new may mean formaldyhde exposure, lingering releases of VOSs, etc. Old homes may have lead paint and lots of lead in the pipes sometimes. Test standing faucet water at all drinking points.

You need to find local assistance from someone knowledgeable in the issues that matter to you, and about local construction. There ae regional issues, like weather, seismicity, insects, moisture, radon, etc. Experienced people know the difference between a good home and a bad home. Be cautious about anyone with a vested interest, like a remodeler looking for work or a realtor making a sale. A "green" builder may be a good starting point.

[quinnox]

18. Trend: Building up instead of out

The new trend is building up, three stories, four stories or more. And also, these houses include elevators as an option which is very attractive to those who want to live there the rest of their lives into the golden years. Just hop on the elevator and you go up to your master bedroom.

[TwilightGardener]

19. Old houses rock. Mine was built in 1875--still standing tall, dry basement--

some foundation cracks and settling, but hey, no one's perfect after 130+ years. Lotta work, but worth it. I'd rather live here, with that "old-house" smell, fun-house floors, 6-foot tall narrow windows and porcelain doorknobs, then in a plastic-wrapped soulless suburban tick-tack house.

[Javaman]

20. Well from a person who just bought an "old house (1973) I can give you the things to look for...

check if there was termite damage. We had gone into this house with the idea of remodeling it. We are halfway through it. When pulling down some of the old dry wall, many of the studs were eaten to nothing by termites.

Check the wiring. We have aluminum. Not the best to say the least. and replacing it can cost money. Luckily we have a friend that is an electrician and he cut us a deal. We are replacing the wiring as we remodel each room. The kitchen was the killer.

Check the fireplace. make sure the flue is clear and it's structurally sound. We caught this in the inspection. Nice and clean now and completely repaired.

check the insulation in the Attic. This will be a giant cost saver in heating over time. Make sure you have at least (I believe) 1 foot of insulation.

Check the a/c heater unit. We were lucky the former residents had put in a new one only 3 years before. However, have someone come in and check the duct system. Especially near the returns.

Check to see if you are in a flood plane.

Check the direction that your home is facing. If you choose to put on solar panels at some point this will play a big role.

just a few things off the top of my head.

[raccoon]

22. Thanks to everyone for your helpful responses! I'm saving this thread. nt