Note to ALL Democratic Senators: CUT THE CRAP - IT... IS... OVER!

[kpete]

Note to ALL Democratic senators: IT... IS... OVER!
by Bob Johnson
Thu Jun 21, 2007

I want to make a simple, declarative point:

IRAQ

IS

OVER

FOR

THE

U.S.

Our continued presence makes the situation worse, not better, SO QUIT PRETENDING OTHERWISE!

The "surge" is a sham, AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW IT!

By not continuing to send Bush FUNDING WITH A WITHDRAWAL TIMELINE, you are complicit in sending more of your fellow citizens off to die in an effort you know is futile and senseless.

So cut the crap. Don't insult us with quotes from one of the most courageous of American presidents, Abraham Lincoln, to justify your own cowardice to stand up to the bullies in the Executive branch.

JUST

QUIT

PRETENDING

You know the truth about Iraq. The American people know the truth about Iraq. So do the right thing.

more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/6/21/12327/0147

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. Well, I was looking for a place to post this, and I guess this is the best place:

Amid boos, Pelosi declares Iraq was 'grotesque mistake'

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/After_boos_Pelosi_declares_Iraq_was_0621.html

[MuseRider]

2. It is grotesque alright

but it was no friggin mistake and THEY KNOW IT!

[magellan]

6. If I could recommend a reply

...it'd be yours.

[MuseRider]

7. Sad isn't it? n/t

[TahitiNut]

10. Exactly.

:thumbsup:

[AntiFascist]

3. Are we finally past the 100 hours bullshit?

:sarcasm:

[Vilis Veritas]

55. Kind of hard to laugh today...

Thanks for making me smile...

Are we awake yet? Anyone...?

Anyone...?

[NJCher]

23. story quotes Nancy

At the end of her remarks, she said, "Instead of fighting with us, which is your right to do, let's work together."

Earth to Nancy: you work for us. How about you work with us.



Cher

[MuseRider]

32. Didn't you just love

that quote? Apparently they also believe they are there to do what they want. This is what happens when you let someone act unaccountably for years. Finally every side believes they have that right.

[Kikosexy2]

54. Nancy...

you and Harry f#*ked up now start impeachments to save yourselves...

[chaska]

4. 'Across the political spectrum ... elected officials are now clamoring to "stop the war in Iraq."'

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/

From 'Both Ways'.

Now there is another consensus forming. Across the political spectrum, from the far left to the far right, elected officials are now clamoring to "stop the war in Iraq." By this they mean get US troops out. What cracks me up is their juvenile belief that being there is somehow optional for us, that we can keep on running Wal Mart and Walt Disney World without paying any price for it in the costs of policing the Middle East.

If we don't maintain a military presence in Iraq, it is perfectly plain what will happen: Iran will instantly gain control of the southern Iraq oil fields. Iraq doesn't have an army anymore. It is incapable of preventing Iran from acquiring control of its territory. From that vantage, Iran would also effectively threaten the sovereign existence of Kuwait. Then there is the question of how much instability Iran could generate next door in the Shia-dominated Persian Gulf shoreline region of Saudi Arabia, where most of that nation's oil lies. (Meanwhile, there will be plenty more Iran-inspired mayhem in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories.)



I'm not taking a position here, just passing it along.

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. That article is just wrong, in so many ways.

We are not in Iraq because of our attachment to oil. We are there because particular people and particular corporations want to control that oil. The oil is there - the people who are sitting on it want to sell it - we want to buy it. The particulars of who is sitting on it and who we are buying it from are irrelevant - we want it, we will buy it. We aren't afraid of Iran controlling the oil - Iran has been selling oil to the west for decades. We are there because Bushco wants to control both the production and the purchasing of the oil, skimming off both ends.

When was the last time Iran invaded anybody? Something like the 3rd century BC? Iran may be a powerful presence, but it is not and has historically not been an agressor in the region. Also, it is the one country in the region that was not cobbled together by the failing British Empire. To say that Iran is a threat to Kuwait is like saying France is a threat to Belgium. They will, of course, support the factions that are favorable to them, but they are not going to invade their neighbors. They are Persian, and their neighbors are Arab, and they'd have no more success at being an occupier of Arab lands than we are.

Iran is not a threat.

[redqueen]

40. that guy's not the best at predicting outcomes. n/t

[Pale Blue Dot]

5. K & R

[Solly Mack]

8. :)

[tnlefty]

9. AMEN or whatever works!

And may I just add, please stop blaming the 'Iraqi government' such as it is for the policy of this government to "shock and awe" that country and descend it into the chaos that is the state of Iraq? In other words, just to make it perfectly clear - what is happening in Iraq sits squarely on the policies and decisions of the Bush** misAdministration and the the government of the US, and not the bombed, occupied, set up another puppet, government nor civilians of Iraq.

Small rant over for now.

[MuseRider]

12. NO KIDDING!

I am seething with all of this. Been mad for years of course but there is simply NO WAY any of this can be laid at the doorsteps of the Iraqi's that are left. The others are either gone or dead and they were not at fault either. How can anyone, anyone believe this? It is beyond my comprehension how anyone could say that they are not living up to the benchmarks or expectations or even to have the unmitigated gall to make them up.

Remember being a kid and what your mother told you? It is not someone else's fault if you tear up their stuff, it doesn't make a bit of difference how angry they made you, you just don't do that and then blame them. It is a daily bruising to the brain having to deal with these people.

[Mrspeeker]

11. Personal note to all my elected officials

YOU SUCK!

*I don't live in Ohio so Kucinich can't help me, and I can't vote for him unless I want to write him in, and theres no way I am moving there, so hence this very long explanation.

[welshTerrier2]

13. No more TIMELINES - NO MORE FUNDING - just ...

NO MORE

stop it ... stop it ... stop it ...

[Eagle_Eye]

27. It is time for a diplomatic solution

Bring all concerned parties to the table and hammer out what is wrong and how to fix it.
Violence is not working.
Violence never had a chance of working.
The war is just putting taxpayer dollars into the pockets of defense contractors.

[calimary]

60. Amen! Stop the bullshitting!!! I say go straight to the top: IMPEACHMENT!!!

IMPEACHING the so-called "commander-in-chief" AND his "I'm my own separate department-in-command" is one very sure-fire way to stop the war. And Mme Speaker, if it feels uncomfortable for you to realize that puts you in the White House as next-in-line, then STEP SIDE. TRADE SEATS WITH STENY HOYER OR SOMEBODY.

'Cause we just DAMNED WELL need to PROCEED with this! With you OR without you!

[lonestarnot]

14. and

[MuseRider]

15. A must.

They have to try, they have to do it. This country is screaming for them to do something. Do they think their approval rating has sunk to historic lows is because they have not been nice enough?

[lonestarnot]

16. They are going to do nothing and let this country errupt into a fucking anarchist free for all.

Just wait until it gets a little hotter this summer.

[MuseRider]

28. It is already getting hot and angry

but I am afraid most of the nastiness will just come right back on us. WE will suffer because all of this continues. WE will suffer because they don't even try or have the guts to speak out. I could see anarchy erupting if there was a movement to impeach that was thwarted. Right now I am not sure that some people really even know why they are hurting so much, they have been working and worrying too much to pay attention. Once the real enemy is defined heaven help them. Until then we will chew on each other I am afraid.

[lonestarnot]

33. Don't be afraid. It's going to be ok.

Guess I shouldn't be telling you how to feel. I'm sorry you're afraid, that's all.

[MuseRider]

34. I should have said concerned I guess.

Not afraid at all. Too little caffeine to be clear I guess.

[lonestarnot]

35. Well good! Glad to hear it was only lack of caffeine. I'm getting my dose right now.

:hug:

[bdamomma]

48. very hot, with all this shit going on, and it's been going on

long enough, I am tired of being on the back burner!!

[redqueen]

41. Maybe they think their powder's not dry enough yet. n/t

[MuseRider]

42. Hey redqueen!

I think it dried up and blew away with all of their convictions, if they ever really had any. It is all about the job but then I would not want to have to compete in the job market right now if I were them. Their references must really suck about now. :hi:

[SusanaMontana41]

17. Posts such as this one

are the reasons I love DU. Thanks kpete, for cutting through the bullsh*t.

[bigtree]

19. post like this rely on the expectation that Bush would notice or care about some funding shortfall

to the extent that he'd end his occupation.

Post like this are why DU frustrates me to the point where I question why I come here and share my opinions. This doesn't cut through anything. It just covers for the fact that it is Bush and the republicans who are holding our troops in Iraq, not the majority of Democrats who are ready and willing to vote for legislation containing timelines AGAIN.

To some, everyone other than their sweet selves is a coward.

[AntiFascist]

26. Erm, I think the fact that a majority of Dems voted for continued war funding...

with virtually a blank check speaks for itself.

[bigtree]

43. there's no evidence that holding back that one supplemental bill would end it

Holding back that supplemental -- which contained DEMOCRATIC priorities for our soldiers already deployed -- which contained ESSENTIAL funding for the troops in harms way which republicans had neglected for the four years they were in control of Congress -- and in the face of their FAILURE to move Bush one inch with the previous, vetoed effort -- holding back that ONE supplemental, with LIMITED funding, would have directed Bush to do NOTHING.

That's what makes the 'morally superior' argument about some defunding scheme ending the occupation completely absurd. If there actually are funds 'in the pipeline' to support the troops in some withdrawal, as Kucinich and others who fault Democrats for providing those needed funds for the stranded troops, then there was money enough for Bush to continue his occupation without that ONE, LIMITED supplemental; at least for the term the *Democratic funding bill covered.

ONE vote with a veto-busting margin of republicans -- in addition to the majority of Democrats already pledged and ready to vote AGAIN for legislation containing timelines -- and the troops come home, MONEY AND ALL.


edit: *

[AntiFascist]

58. Yes, but $140 billion???!!!!!

certainly this is looking ahead to funding the war way beyond withdrawal anytime soon. Also, how did many of the top Democrats (not in the majority) get away with opposing this bill? Are you saying that they were in the wrong?

[bigtree]

61. the legislators obviously voted the way they felt

but there was much more than 'money to continue the war' in the bill put in there from anti-occupation patriots like John Murtha. Funding for veterans' care, for instance.

Should we be concerned at all with the troops who were effectively stranded by the failure of the republicans to vote for a way out?

Stranded without proper gear or training? Should they be without body armor they need just so Democrats can make a political point? Should they be forced to cannibalize their equipment to keep it operating while we bicker instead of receiving new parts and new equipment? Or should they just wait and do without while the politicians dig in their heels?

Is a new reinforced Humvee which would help protect them as they travel through Iraq too much to ask for these men and women who are stranded because of the political impasse in Washington?

While there is no agreement on the horizon or any prospect for Bush moving off of his occupation until at least the fall when republicans may jump ship, what happens to the needs of the troops already deployed?

Should they do without, hoping that someone in the administration will take notice and care enough about the shortfalls to move off of their occupation? Who in the administration do you expect to pay any attention to all of that?

[AntiFascist]

62. Oh come on, talk about warmongering pork....

how many separate veterans' programs could $140 billion cover??? How many humvees and how much armor could it pay for? They'd better completely rebuild and restaff Walter Reed hospital for that amount of money. What do you bet that there will still be veterans' issues even after this money is spent?!

[PassingFair]

44. Maybe you'd be more comfortable glad-handing with Will Marshall and the New Dems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Marshall

Your "frustration level" will evaporate!

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

46. Ah the quintessence of big tree

Here is hoping you find *some* way to alleviate some of that misplaced anger at the posters of DU.

[bigtree]

57. you attack my integrity and I'll respond in kind

every time

[PassingFair]

49. I want this party to be a party that the people can support.

We keep losing because we won't stand up for the truth.

I'm tired of defending Clinton/DLC democrats to the public at large.

Fuck off yourself.

[DKRC]

18. Thank you for posting this! K&R!

:kick:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

20. And Dick Cheney is ruler of everything without accountability...

Are we still not Fascism yet?

[KingFlorez]

21. Get real

Whoever wrote this is completely delusional if they think it's that easy. Congress can set whatever deadlines they want, if there isn't enough votes to override a veto, it isn't going to work.

[NJCher]

24. so you keep throwing it in their face

What do you think they would do if the Democrats had started this war and Republicans wanted out? They would never stop trying to get us out of this war. That is what they would do and that is what the Democrats must do.



Cher

[leftchick]

29. Wrong

Can Democrats End the Iraq War?
Media flunk constitutional question on war funding

6/1/07

Summing up the media's conventional wisdom about the congressional vote to approve funding for the Iraq War with no timeline for withdrawal, the Los Angeles Times wrote on May 25: "Unable to overcome the president's veto of their plan to set a timeline for withdrawing U.S. troops, Democrats have been left to focus on what to do next."

That, in a nutshell, is what was wrong with the coverage of the war funding debate. In fact, if the Democrat-controlled Congress wanted to force the Bush administration to accept a bill with a withdrawal timeline, it didn't have to pass the bill over Bush's veto—it just had to make clear that no Iraq War spending bill without a timeline would be forthcoming. Given that the Constitution requires Congress to approve all spending, Bush needs Congress's approval to continue the war—Congress does not need Bush's approval to end the war.

Democrats may not have wanted to pay the supposed political costs of such a strategy, but news coverage should have made clear that this was a choice, not something forced on them by the lack of a veto-proof majority.

Unfortunately, some leading pundits instead gave deeply misleading, unhelpful summaries of how the American constitutional system works. Here's New York Times columnist David Brooks on CNN's Reliable Sources (5/27/07):

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3110

Nice try though.

[TheWraith]

52. A large majority of the public is opposed to defunding the war.

And frankly, I can't blame them. Knowing Bush and his obsession with Iraq, do you really think that he'd let running out of money force him to meekly end the war?

[lonestarnot]

36. I haven't seen anyone counting any fucking votes.

[ClayZ]

22. K and R

[TheWatcher]

25. There is nothing that could possibly be added to your Post

You speak with the words that ALL of us should be feeling and shouting from the rooftops as if we were Howard Beale.

WE ARE MAD AS HELL, AND WE AREN'T GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE.



Unfortunately, They Are Not Listening.

The Question is:

What do we do?

[Blackhatjack]

30. And this should be on Billboards Across America.....

I would bold "BY FUNDING WITHOUT A WITHDRAWAL TIMELINE YOU ARE SENDING OUR FELLOW CITIZENS OFF TO DIE IN AN EFFORT YOU KNOW IS FUTILE AND SENSELESS"

History repeats itself....

Nixon knew the Vietnam War was lost and yet he let thousands more die needlessly because of political considerations.

Bush knows the Iraq War is lost and yet he is letting hundreds more die needlessly because he wants to hand this mess off to the next the President.

Two peas in a pod...

NICE POST KPETE!

[MuseRider]

31. Bush** may know the war is lost

and lets hundreds (thousands?) more die needlessly but apparently the Democrats are also willing to do this.

I would say three peas in a pod.

[happygoluckytoyou]

38. TONY SNOW HERE--- to clear things up

Iraq is a breeding ground for terrorism. When we bring freedom and peace to the region, in the form of guns and bombs, we are doing a good thing for god and country (see reference material at the creation museum). We are fighting them over there so we can fight them over there. And that is good for america or my name isn't baghdad bob.

IM GLAD I COULD CLEAR THIS UP, FOR I AM..... TONY SNOW.... don't mess with me or you will never get a front row seat or any of the free shrimp and crackers

i love america
i love god
i love george w bush
i love dick
i love lamp

[Vilis Veritas]

39. What and stop the pork?

They can get pork for their buddies and enhance their own net worth. Even the war is profitable for politicians on BOTH SIDES. Does anybody else see that? Am I the only one? It is the main reason that I believe that shrub was able to say with almost prescient certainty, "This war will be a long war..." The war in Iraq is the largest government subsidy program to ever be approved. Unfortunately, it only subsidizes the CORPORATIONS.

Politics today, even on the local level is a way to secure a bigger piece of the pie.

Sorry for the ranting...

Peace.

Gore '08

[NJCher]

59. nope

Am I the only one?

http://iraqforsale.org/



Cher

[bdamomma]

47. I really think we are due to consider confrontation with these

jerks, how much longer can we bend over?????

[TheWraith]

50. WHERE ARE THE VOTES?

Every time I see one of these rightous rants, I have to ask: what is your plan, and where are the votes to do it? To get around the Republican blocking of anything they don't like, you're going to need 60 votes in the Senate, meaning you'll have to sway ten Republicans to our side. If you want to override Bush's veto, you need 67 votes, meaning 17 Republicans. Care to elaborate on which ones are going to join us?

So long as at least 34 Republicans stay in lock-step with Bush, nothing is going past the Senate, and pretending that it's perfectly possible to stop the war but they just don't want to do it is dishonest.

[PassingFair]

53. I'd be happy to just see DEMOCRATIC VOTES!

At least the public would see that WE STAND UNITED
against this horrific "WAR".

WTF are OUR GUYS VOTING AGAINST US FOR?

THAT is the problem.

Let the pukes obstruct.

The issue is renegade dems.

[Locrian]

51. it sucks

I KNOW it's over. I KNOW its wrong. I think the democrats are afraid of what will happen to oil $$ (yeah its always about oil).

The day the pullout happens and Iraq descends into even more chaos is the day prices go though the roof ($7 gallon? $10 gallon?) and the propaganda machine tells joe six pack that the democrats made it that way.

I am NOT defending bush. I am willing to take the consequences and responsibility and I AGREE we need to end this wrong and criminal war. Just saying what I think the dems in congress are thinking. Its just another thing bush has wrecked and left for others to pick up the pieces and take the blame.

[4_TN_TITANS]

56. and put a cork in Lieber-boob! n/t