HRW slams Iran for executing children

[Phx_Dem]

An international human rights group has called on Iran to stop executing people under the age of 18, saying the country leads the world in the practice.

Human Rights Watch said Iran had executed at least 17 juvenile offenders, eight times more than any other country, since the beginning of 2004, including two so far this year.

"Iran holds the deplorable distinction of leading the world in juvenile executions, and the authorities should end this practice at once," Clarisa Bencomo, HRW's Mideast children's rights researcher, said in a statement issued Wednesday.

Iranian officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

More at:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1182409605573&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Larkspur]

1. The US had no problem raping Iraqi children and torturing their parents

so who has the moral authority?

[still_one]

3. Funny but this is from Human Rights Watch, NOT the U.S.

http://www.hrw.org/

It doesn't matter where there is injustice, whether committed by the U.S. OR IRAN, it should be pointed out

Is that a problem?

Here is a report from that group critical of the U.S.:

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2007/06/04/usint16068.htm

[The Stranger]

5. It is pointed out during a propaganda storm seeking to attack Iran.

Norm Podheretz was in the WSJ calling for the bombing of Iran.

[still_one]

8. That is not even what the OP was inferring, he was just pointing to this report /nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. On a Jerusalem Post page entitled

"The Iranian Threat".

No propaganda here.

[Phx_Dem]

18. Gee that proves a lot

:eyes:

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. You're saying it's NOT propaganda?

Then why the page entitled "The Iranian Threat"? Certainly, executing children is despicable, but is it a threat?

The threat is "look how evil the Iranians are".

Propaganda.

[Phx_Dem]

23. No it's not propaganda

The special section entitled "The Iranian Threat" was obviously set up so all the articles/op eds about Iran are organized. Just my opinion.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. That would be, all the articles/op eds about the Iranian threat.

IOW, all the articles/op eds about why the Iranians are dangerous.

How can you not recognise propaganda when it is staring you in the face? Do you think that the fact that it is true does not make it propaganda? You do realize that the best propaganda is that which lies the least, don't you? It justifies the dehumanizing of the other.

We have Perle shouting for an attack on Iran, and the paper lumping all bad things Iranian under the "Iranian Threat", and you don't see any propaganda.



:eyes:

[Phx_Dem]

26. How JPost sets up their web pages doesn't concern me

Overall they are a credible news source.

[The Stranger]

25. You forgot to include the sarcasm indicator.

[SOS]

28. But why no USA/Pakistan/China "threat" page?

From Amnesty International on child executions:

2001: Iran (1), Pakistan (1), USA (1)
2002: USA (3)
2003: China (1), USA (1)
2004: China (1), Iran (3)
2005: Iran (8), Sudan (2)
2006: Iran (4), Pakistan (1)

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-children-stats-eng

Why single out only one country?

[Phx_Dem]

29. Maybe because those countries pose no threat

to Israel.

[SOS]

45. OK

but then the author isn't serious about with the issue of child executions in the world.
By ignoring the other countries that practice child executions, the article is disingenuous in it's "concern".

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

31. Aww....leave them alone......

... they're just misunderstood, that's all. :sarcasm:

[pampango]

9. If they don't like the message..., well you know the rest.

Just be ready for your share of "but" and "on the other hand".

Pointing out injustices no matter where they occur, is considered by some to be a journalistic trick. ;)

[still_one]

10. I know, and Darfur is hardly mentioned either /nt

[MetaTrope]

2. Interesting how Human Rights Watch's reports on Iraq don't seem to make Associated Press

At least, not since the Bush Junta started ruining the place.

[The Stranger]

4. But the cited article is from the Jerusalem Post.

Isn't Richard Perle on the board of that paper?

[still_one]

6. Go to the Human Rights Watch site. It also critisizes the U.S. and Israel

and all countries which have issues

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2007/06/04/usint16068.htm

[Dhalgren]

7. The US probably has more children (under 18) in prison than

any other country, so Iran is stealing our thunder...

[onenote]

12. Iran is "stealing our thunder" by executing children under 18

at a rate far greater than any other nation.

You think any of the under 18 year olds in prison here wished they lived in iran?

[Dhalgren]

11. We should be cleaning our own house, too, not just "catapulting the propaganda".

This is from Michael Moore’s “Stupid White Men”:

p206
We are one of the few countries in the world that puts to death both the mentally retarded and juvenile offenders. The United States is among only six countries that impose the death penalty on juveniles. The others are Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen.
The United States is also the only country besides Somalia that has not signed the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. Why? Because it contains a provision prohibiting the execution of children under eighteen, and we want to remain free to execute our children.
No other industrialized nation executes its children.
Even China prohibits the death penalty for those under eighteen-this from a country that has shown an intolerable lack of respect for human rights.
Currently the total number of death row inmates in the United States tops 3,700. Seventy of those death row inmates are minors (or were when they committed their crime).
But our Supreme Court doesn't find it cruel and unusual punishment (in the terms of the Eighth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution) to execute those who were sixteen years old when they committed a capital crime. This despite the fact that same court has ruled that sixteen-year-olds do not have "the maturity or judgment" to sign contracts.
Odd, isn't it, that a child's diminished capacity for signing contracts is viewed as a legal barrier to enforcing a contract, but when it comes to the right to be executed, a child's capacity is equal to that of an adult?
Eighteen states allow juvenile offenders as young as sixteen to be executed. Five others allow the execution of those who were seventeen or older when they committed their crime. In 1999 Oklahoma executed Sean Sellers, who was sixteen at the time of the murders he was found guilty of committing. Sellers's multiple personality disorder wasn't revealed to the jury that convicted him. A federal appeals court found that Sellers might have been "factually innocent" because of his mental disorder, but that "innocence alone is not sufficient to grant federal relief." Unbelievable.

We are one of the worst offenders against children in the world. And we should be held accountable for it...

[onenote]

13. You might want to time travel to the present day.

Stupid White Men was published in 2001. In 2005, in Roper v. Simmons, the United States Supreme Court ruled that that it is unconstitutional to impose capital punishment for crimes committed while under the age of 18.

So it would appear that we have been cleaning our own house to a degree.

[Phx_Dem]

14. Also Atkins vs. Virginia

SCOTUS majority ruled that executing mentally retarded was cruel and unusual punishment.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-8452.ZS.html

[Dhalgren]

15. So the US shows a little shame? Who'd a thunk it? We are still a nation

of extreme cruelty and callousness and we have much more to do before we can try to be indignant about the actions of other nations. Of course Iran's Islamic Law is barbaric - I don't argue that. But for some US politician or functionary, covered in the blood of innocents to point the dripping finger at someone else (for war propaganda purposes) is still not acceptable. At least to me.

[onenote]

17. Sorry, but no.

I think both as a nation and as individual citizens of this nation, we can and should be indignant abou the actions of other nations. The principles that lead me to criticize my own government and to work for my government to reform itself also apply to and lead me to criticize other governments. And I would hope that progressive US politicians that criticize and seek to reform this country are not shy about criticizing other governments, particularly where, as in the case of execution of minors, our nation has moved forward.

Finally, since this thread started with a report from Human Rights Watch, not some "US politician or functionary", I'm curious as to whether you have a problem with what HRW does or not.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. Actually, the OP was an article in the Jerusalem Post, under the

heading of The Iranian Threat.

If he wanted a non-propaganda posting about HRW, he could have posted just that.

Just because the HRW report is true, doesn't mean it is not being used to help inflame hatred in preparation of conflict with Iran.

It is not HRW that is being criticized here - it's the pro-war agitation.

[onenote]

30. So are you saying that its not propaganda when HRW puts out a report, but is propaganda

when the Jerusalem Post publishes an article about the report? Is it also propaganda when AP and Reuters pick up the HRW report and publish a story about it?http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/06/20/iran16211.htm

You might have a point if the Jerusalem Post had dredged up an old report from HRW and turned it into a new story. But that's not what happened. HRW put out its report condemning IRan's execution of minors YESTERDAY. It was picked up by, among others, Reuters and AP. The Jerusalem Post article was attributed to AP.

Unless you think HRW, AP, and Reuters are all in cahoots to agitate for war with Iran you really don't have a point.

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. That's it. You got it. That's exactly what I'm saying.

The HRW page gives the information straight.

The Jerusalem Post gives the same information but under the heading of THE FUCKING IRANIAN THREAT.

One is saying 'these are the facts'. The other is saying 'this is why we hate Iran'. It is not the facts that are in question -- it is the context.

Is it so hard to see the difference?

[onenote]

35. you really can't approach this honestly can you?

The Jersualem Post headline (written by AP for all you or I know) is "HRW Slams Iran for Executing Children", not even close to "The Fucking Iranian Threat" except for in your delusion. It also is a completely factual statement.

The headline of the HRW release, by the way is: "Iran Leads the World in Executing Children" -- how you find that to be appreciably different or to not say "this is why we hate Iran" is, again, a complete mystery.

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. And did you look at the page the fucking article is on?

Banner across the top

THE IRANIAN THREAT

That puts it in context. It's the context that says what they want it to say.

The article in the HRW page is NOT framed in that hysteria.

I can see where you came up with the name 'Onenote'.

[onenote]

43. yes, apparently more closely than you did

JerusalemPost.com has a section entitled "The Iranian Threat" (thus the banner) in which it aggregates stories relating to Iran. Contrary to your "propaganda" claim, those stories are not all pro-Israel and anti-Iran. For example, just a week ago,an AP story with the following headline ran under that same banner: "IAEA head: Attack on Iran over nuke program would be 'madness'" http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813033722&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Odd way to propagandize.

[MetaTrope]

38. Dupe

;-)

[pampango]

19. Are you sorry yet that you posted something negative about Iran?

Even citing a report from an organization that sticks it to everyone when they deserve it, will get you a lot of negative responses to the effect of "how can anyone criticize another country when ours is bad, too."

[Phx_Dem]

20. Sort of--Here is some good news about Iran

Iran stays execution by stoning

Iranian authorities have halted the planned stoning to death of a man and woman convicted of adultery following international protests, it emerged tonight.

Mokarrameh Ebrahimi and an unnamed man, who have spent 11 years in prison, were due to be killed tomorrow in a cemetery in the town of Takestan in western Iran.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2107534,00.html

Good Job Iran! Keep up the good work!

[pampango]

22. That should generate a more positive response!

Good work, Iran. ;)

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

32. It's sad that this post can't just stand on it's own

If it was about the US or the UK, everyone would be exhibiting the proper moral outrage. But make it about a country we are "picking on", and suddenly it's "yeah, but......"

[Dhalgren]

33. You simply can't take this out of the context of the US and Israel

working hard to destroy Iran - physically. The US government wants to kill tens of thousands of Iranians, it acts as though it yearns for it. So do the Israelis. Even our own Democratic candidates cannot bring themselves to say we don't need to bomb and kill Iranians - and if the US and Israel get their way, there will be many, many more Iranian children killed than have been executed by the brutal, religious government of Iran. But that isn't the point of this article from this Jerusalem newspaper - the point is to further vilify Iran. The reaction, here, is an over reaction on the side of toning down the rhetoric and demonization of the Iranian people. HRW, of course, is correct in condemning Iran for this practice, just as the US should have been condemned for the same thing just a few short years ago. Our legal system changed, perhaps the Iranian one can too, but we cannot forget the ulterior motives behind any and everything that is published in most of the US and Israeli press...

[onenote]

36. and apparently HRW is just one of their tools according to you.

And only you. You say HRW is correct in condemning Iran for the practice, but that somehow its wrong for AP, Reuters and their client papers, including the Jerusalem Post, to pick up the story that HRW put out a release on this topic yesterday.

Wow. That's really twisted.

[MetaTrope]

39. Propaganda

"Is it also propaganda when AP and Reuters pick up the HRW report and publish a story about it?"

It is when they cherry-pick just which HRW reports they choose to cover.

Do you see their June 19th story about Iran deporting Afghan nationals back to "free" Afghanistan in the American press?

The one from June 15th calling on the U.S. not to deport a Guantanamo detainee back to Libya?

The June 16th article about Nepal's enforced disappearances?

The one from June 13th about the Lebanese army abusing Palestinian refugees?

That's the American press for you. American readers consume it because, like a dog with dog food, it's all they're given when they're hungry.

[onenote]

42. You are seem to be digging yourself into a hole here.

Maybe I'm not following you, in which case I apologize. But if you're trying to prove that the publicity given to the HRW report on Iran's practice of executing children is propaganda because other HRW reports weren't publicized, you run into a couple of problems. First, to the extent the HRW story critical of Iran's practice of deporting Afghans was not reported widely, it would seem to counter your suggestion that there is a concerted effort to depict Iran unfavorably. Otherwise the story would've been widely reported.

And to the extent that you think that the story about Iran executing children is the only HRW report publicized recently in the US press, you'd be wrong. Just a couple of weeks ago USA Today ran a story about HRW report calling on the US not to deport a Guantano detainee back to Libya -- a story critical of the US.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-06-07-detainee-rights_x.htm?csp=34

[MetaTrope]

44. Erm

The story about Iran and Afghanistan is written with the explicit understanding that Iran is a better place to live. And who is supposedly in control of Afghanistan right now, hm?

Do you have a link to the USA Today story? Your link above is two years old and a completely different topic. Because a search of their website only shows one article mentioning Human Rights Watch since May...and it's about a scholar jailed in Iran. Conduct a Google News search on Abdul al-Qassim, and you'll see that the story WAS distributed on Reuters, UPI and AFP (significantly, not AP)--but only two U.S. newspapers printed it, the Washington Post and the Modesto Bee.

[Progressive_In_NC]

47. AP and UPI distribute stories everything HRW does

They don't discriminate usually. I used to work at a newspaper and even the reports criztizing the US came right across the wire.

[MetaTrope]

48. I'm still not seeing it

I searched in Google to see if AP picked up the stories in these press releases from HRW for the past two weeks:

June 21 - UK (Brown)
June 21 - UN (Human Rights Council)
June 20 - Iran (Executions)
June 20 - Sierra Leone (Child Soldiers)
June 18 - Iran (Deportations)
June 16 - Palestine (Captives)
June 15 - Guinea (Child Labor)
June 15 - Uzbekistan (Gulbahor)
June 15 - Libya (Guantanamo)
June 15 - Nepal (Disappearances)
June 15 - Cambodia (Consultative Group)
June 14 - Kosovo (Peacekeeping)
June 14 - Thailand (School Attacks)
June 13 - Lebanon (Refugees)
June 13 - Gaza (Executions)
June 13 - Iraq (Refugees)
June 13 - Russia (Gay Rights)
June 12 - Sudan (UN Security Council)
June 11 - Egypt (Executions)
June 10 - Tibet (Herder Relocations)
June 8 - Europe (Secret CIA Prisons)
June 8 - Sri Lanka (Expulsion of Tamils)
June 7 - Iraq (Disappeared CIA Detainees)

Once again, virtually none of them had U.S. press coverage (let alone AP wire stories)...Iran, Sri Lanka, Sudan...that was it. I do recall HRW's stories about Venezuela's media crackdown are slavishly passed along, though.

[Phx_Dem]

37. The US and Israel?

Lets see.

French envoy: Iran's nuclear program 'a threat to the world'
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=825611&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0

Iran a 'major threat', says Blair
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6172347.stm

Merkel: Iran nuke program must be halted
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10138


France, Spain condemn Ahmadinejad remarks on Israel's destruction
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/866805.html

Seems like other nations are concerned as well.

The unnecessary rhetoric in your post is really OTT, I'm pretty sure the US and Israeli governments are not "yearning" to "bomb and kill Iranians" by the tens of thousands, nor is the US/Israeli media some monolithic tool of the government.

[Dhalgren]

40. Of course, of course...my bad...

:rofl:

[Progressive_In_NC]

46. Intellectually and honestly compare these offenders -- PLEASE READ!!

I'm glad they stopped this crap in the US and I hate the death penalty but I will say one thing. Iran will whack a 15 year old for "moral offenses". The US would give the offender every chance to appeal til their heart's desire, and 10 years in most cases before anything happens.

Take an honest look at how this thing goes down (plus the fact that US has stopped this practice in 2005 and Iran continues today).

Look at the examples below (The Iranian ones are on down). In the US examples, one guy killed three of his cousins and stole the wheels off their car. another guy put two people in the trunk of a car and lit it on fire burning them alive. Some of the Iranian ones were executed for following Ba'hai or having bad literature.

US OFFENDERS
==========================================================

•Jay Pinkerton: Convicted of two stabbing murders in Amarillo, both occurring during unrelated robberies. The first victim was Sarah Lawrence, 30; the second was Sherry Welch, 23. Both women were raped. Executed May 1986.

------------------------------------------------------------

Johnny Garrett: Convicted in the 1981 rape, strangulation and stabbing of Sister Tadea Benz, a 76-year-old nun, in Amarillo. Executed February 1992.

------------------------------------------------------------
Toronto Patterson (executed at 25)

Toronto Patterson -- who had no criminal record and who was just 17 years old at the time of his offense -- is now scheduled for execution in Texas on August 28, 2002. He was sentenced to death for the 1995 murder of three of his cousins in Dallas, Texas.

------------------------------------------------------

Scott Allen Hain (executed at 32)

Laura Lee Sanders and Michael Houghton were seated in Sanders' car outside a Tulsa bar when they were approached by Scott Allen Hain and Robert Wayne Lambert. Hain and Lambert were in the parking lot, waiting to rob a nearby house when they saw Sanders and Houghton talking in the car. Appellant and Lambert forced their way into the car by threatening Houghton with a knife. Hain drove the car away from the bar, then stopped and robbed Houghton at gunpoint. When Houghton resisted the robbery, Hain forced him into the trunk of the car. A short while later, Hain and Lambert stopped and put Sanders in the trunk as well. The two men went back and drove away Houghton's car and stopped after driving down a rural roadway. The two men took Sanders' belongings, cut the gas line to the car and set it on fire. Houghton and Sanders were banging on the trunk and yelling. Hain and Lambert left the area, but returned a short time later to see if the fire was burning well. Hains was the 22nd murderer executed in the United States since 1976 for a murder committed when they were younger than 18 years old. Lambert remains on death row awaiting execution.

======================================================================


Iranian Offenders

======================================================================
Saeed Kamberzai (m)

Saeed Kamberzai was executed on May 28, 2007, and was 17 years old at the time of the execution. Saeed, together with six other men, confessed on Iranian television of being involved in a number of crimes which allegedly took place in the Sistan-Baluchistan province, including attacks and carjackings. According to Amnesty International, there are uncomfirmed reports that these men were tortured into giving these confessions.

Information provided to Amnesty International suggested that Saeed and the other men could have been arrested because of family ties with those suspected of having been involved in blowing up a bus carrying security officials from the Revolutionary Guard on 14 February 2007, in which at least 14 people were killed.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Mohammad Mousavi (m)

Mohammad Mousavi was executed on April 22, 2007 in the city of Shiraz. He was prisoner #13 on the Stop Child Executions petition. Mohammad was 19 years old and was sentenced to death for a murder allegedly committed when he was 16.

Mohammad was initially assigned a court appointed attorney but after saving some money, his mother contacted Nasrin Sotoudeh who is an Iranian attorney specialized in juvenile cases. Mrs. Sotoudeh represents other minors facing execution in Iran. Sina Paymard is one of them.

Soon after Mohammad Mousavi's mother hired her own attorney, she was contacted by Mr. Marvi, an official of Iran's judiciary in the central city of Shiraz where they reside. Mr. Marvi told Ms. Mousavi not to publicize her son's execution verdict and to fire her new attorney and in return he promised that Mohammad would not be executed because he was only 16 at the time of the alleged crime. Relying on the Iranian official's promise, the desperate mother told the new attorney not to proceed with defending her son. She also avoided talking to media or human right advocates about her son's situation.

On April 22, 2007 she was contacted by the Iranian authorities, But what she heard was not the promised news of commuting of her son's death penalty. Instead she was told:
"Your son was executed this morning, please make necessary arrangements to collect his body".


---------------------------------------------------------


Atefeh Rajabi (f)

Atefeh Rajabi was a sixteen year-old Iranian girl who was executed in Iran after being sentenced to death by an Iranian judge, Haji Rezaii, for allegedly having committed "acts incompatible with chastity" (having sexual intercourse with an older man), and for removing her hijab while arguing with her judge in court.
Atefeh reportedly had no access to legal counsel during the trial and was allegedly not believed to be mentally competent. Her death sentence was upheld by a Supreme Court of conservative mullahs.

Haji Rezaii, the religious judge, was reportedly so incensed with Atefeh’s "sharp tongue" during the trial that he traveled to Tehran to convince the mullahs of the Supreme Court to uphold the death sentence. She was publicly hanged in Neka, Iran, in August 2004, by the judge himself. Her body was left hanging for some time so people could see what happened to teenagers who committed acts incompatible with chastity. Amnesty International, as well as human rights organizations from the international community at large, declared the execution to be a crime against humanity and against children of the world.

Atefeh's body was allegedly removed from the grave soon after the burial by unknown perpetrators.

BBC2 showed a documentary about the execution of Atefeh, called "Execution of a teenage girl." It can be viewed here. (Also on our Multimedia page)The Guardian has published an article about the making of the documentary, written by the director.


------------------------------------------------

Mona Mahmudnizhad (f)

16 year old Mona were together with 9 other Bahai women executed in June 1983. The primary charge against her was teaching Bahá’í children’s classes. Because her youth and conspicuous innocence became a symbol of the group in prison, she was lashed on the soles of her feet with a cable and forced to walk on bleeding feet. On the day of the execution she asked to be the last in line to be executed so she could pray for the others. All she had to do to avoid execution was to denounce her faith but she refused, and instead when it was her turn, she kissed the rope and put it around her own neck.

------------------------------------------------

Dina Parnabi (f)

Dina Parnabi was an Iranian high school student, accused of smuggling forbidden literature and criticising the regime in her talks with her classmates. She was hanged on the 10th of July 1984 in a Teheran prison. The hanging was done in private and after the execution was over, her body was stripped, washed and delivered for dissection at medical school. In Iran, female bodies delivered for medical studies often show the rope or cable burns around their necks, indicating that they were all executed by hanging.

--====================================================================