So what happens to the "surge" when the Iraqis figure out they have tube artillery?

[jmowreader]

This is a 2S1 self-propelled howitzer. The Soviets built it.



Fast enough to evade counterbattery fire and accurate enough to shoot with confidence, the 122mm 2S1 is one of the more popular self-propelled howitzers out there. You get a six-tube battery of these things, and you can convert the retail killin' the Iraqis have been doing into wholesale slaughter. Worse, get an 18-tube battalion and you can put the fear of God into Bush's men.

Now here's the trick: This particular 2S1 was purchased by Saddam Hussein's defense ministry. The Iraqis HAVE these things--and they will tear the living shit out of the Green Zone if anyone ever deigns to lay them and fire a nice long barrage.

Eventually it's going to happen. It's got to. When they do, there is no way the media can spin this to say we're in the "last throes of the insurgency." But when it does, is Bush finally going to see the error of his ways and bring The Troops home, or is he going to decide he's got nothing left to lose and activate the Selective Service System?

[Rick Myers]

1. They''d need crews trained on the system...

And since they're Russian made and have been sitting for a while, half of them probably would not start. I can't see 'insurgents' opereting them effectively and being able to evade counterbattery fire. They're better off fighting with low profile systems. An Apache and a Hellfire would make for a bad day inside one of those huge things. Just my 2 cents...

[TX-RAT]

3. They make nice targets.

Most likely they would be eliminated before they could get a round out.

[seriousstan]

2. get an 18-tube battalion and you can put the fear of God into Bush's men?

The stupid is strong with this one.

[jmowreader]

6. The "Bush's men" I refer to are in DC, not Baghdad

Let's assume not all the Iraqi field artillerymen have been shocked and awed into the ground and not all the Iraqi field artillery has been blown to shit. Maybe there are no more 2S1s available, but I bet there are some D-30s or some other towed gun available. (I also know they've been making landmines out of 155mm howitzer shells, so apparently they had some 155mm guns as well.) Someone in Iraq knows how to run a fire mission.

Drop one shell into the Green Zone, even if it's from a gun that gets blown away thirty seconds after it fires, and two things will happen:

Thing 1: Shrub, and all of his minions, are going to wet their pants.
Thing 2: The press will start asking questions that can't be answered, like "where did these guns come from?"

Obviously Bush will attempt to blame Iran for Iraq's insurgents having field guns. It might work but I doubt it; Ahmadinejad ain't stupid nor is he crazy. He knows Bush is looking for any excuse to invade Iran, and supplying Iraq with artillery systems is a legitimate casus belli.

[seriousstan]

7. It sounds like you have the plan, now get the ticket and travel to the battle field.

[NeedleCast]

4. The Iraqi military HAD these things

Most of them went boom in 1991. I seriously doubt the insurgency, as it were, has a bunch of self propelled arty or they'd be using it. Since the US has complete air superiority over Iraq, if one of these were to be found in the hands of "the enemy" (whoever that might be today), it would get blown up quick, fast and in a hurry. The 2S1 is an advanced piece of military hardware, however it can't outrun an F-16.

Lining up a bunch of 2S1's without someone noticing and pummeling the Green Zone for a "nice long barrage" is very unlikely.

I agree with your message that the war needs to be ended, but your rational is not a likely one.

[Shoofly pie]

5. 2S1 self-propelled howitzer

Well, if they try to use it without the cloaking device engaged, it will be bombed into a smoking pile of shit.