so when hillary wins the nom and inevitably goes to the right, then what?

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

will progressives be taken for granted again, as she listens to the carvilles of the world?
it stuns me that she's leading in the polls? are people's memories really that short?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. it stuns me that she's leading in the polls?

are people's memories really that short?

My memories are long enough to remember that this time last time around Lieberman was leading the polls, so I'm not too worried.

[mod mom]

3. rove strategy infilitrated BOEs, media and the DOJ. do you really think he'd not

mess with pollsters seeing how he has to steal elections to stay in power?

[BlooInBloo]

12. With Rove's GODLIKE powers, I'm surprised any of us is still alive.

[EFerrari]

27. He's not godlike but he knows how t pick his fights. n/t

[jaysunb]

2. memories aren't short...

emotions are long though. :evilfrown:

[shenmue]

4. How exactly do you "wind" a nom?

Does the Shift key on your keyboard work at all?

:crazy:

And stop whining, she is far from a right winger. People here seem to think no one on Earth is a Democrat. Everyone is too much to the right for them. Well, sit here and whine and vote for another spoiled-brat third party candidate, and watch this country really go into the toilet like last time. I'll bet I can set my watch by it. :eyes:

[martymar64]

37. You won't be saying that in 2012 when Pres. Hillary still has us in Iraq

She'll simply be America's Gorbachev, presiding over a dying empire.

[chknltl]

42. If that is the case we will be unified in our fight against her...

both republicans, Democrats, and pretty much the entire world as well. On the other hand how much worse will the world be my fellow DUer, with one of the current republican candidates in the White House instead? I know that you can not pick any of the repukes as being equally to or better than Senator Clinton in that position. If it comes down to it, I hope we can count on your vote martyrmar64 even if Senator Clinton gets the nod...we will be needing it! Rest assured that your candidate will get my FULL support if he gets the nod instead. The alternative is just to unimaginable.

We may not be able to pick our battles but we may have a voice in how that battle is fought....You can count on me to be in there fighting with you when that time comes... :patriot:

[martymar64]

44. She'll have to offer something worthwhile to get my vote.

I don't expect to get everything I want, but I do want something. Politics is horse trading. Quid Pro Quo and all that. I won't buy the fear mongering approach. Vote for Hillary or the evil Rethugs will win. Many on this site say that they don't need my "far left" vote. If they don't want my vote, they won't get it.

However I could just take the cynical route and vote for whoever puts a check for $10K in my hands.

On a side note, I appreciate your attitude, the other Hillary supporters can learn much from you. If given no other choice, I'd have to vote for her in the general election, but I would feel dirty and ashamed for doing so and would make plans to leave the US for good, knowing that America has finally died. Til that day comes, which I hope it never does, I'll throw my support behind Kucinich or Edwards.

[chknltl]

46. Thanks martyrmar64

For what it is worth, I am not at this point a Senator Clinton Fan...she is last on my list of the candidates because of things she says. Here is where my head is at: The last Presidential election was a close one...one which could have gone our way IF we could have reached out better for more votes. I am sure there were more than a few disgruntled Dems out there who withheld their votes because they did not like Senator Kerry. This is but one group I seek to influence.

We may indeed find our fortunes teetering on a knife edge again. My goal here is to get us all on the same page working together as opposed to angrily sniping at each other...(something which Senator Clinton supporters and detractors are doing at an alarming rate here in the DU). It would be even better if we could be a united group of DUers who presented our concerns to Senator Clinton and perhaps get her to adjust her stance a bit...this of course may be pie in the sky of me but I can guarantee you that she will never listen to a bunch of sniping squabblers. Even if she will not change anything, I feel that we can work with her FAR better than we could work with a repuke.

I too am a Kucinich fan...I am holding out hopes for Al Gore as well. In the meanwhile, the big picture for me is keeping a repuke out of our sacred White House. The world can not survive this kind of chaos much longer. Those who support Senator Clinton can be assured that they will have my FULL support when the time comes. That support actually began awhile ago, not because I support her but because I support THEM as my fellow patriots fighting to take our country back. I seek their support as well...yours too.

That is where my head is at. We really are on the same team here and if you extend this thinking a bit larger, most Americans, regardless of which party they choose, are on that same team too in many ways. We are all passionately fighting for our country, fighting to preserve democracy! If we would stop shouting at each other maybe we would hear that! (Of course we could just keep shouting at each other and keep believing that the other side is out to wreck our country, a notion which helps to keep us divided...just...like...the....bushcons...have...wanted....all along!!!)

Glad to have you with us and thanks for listening to my little rant here. :pals:
Oh and if someone puts 10K$ in your hands...please take me out for a beer, (maybe 2), and donate the rest to whoever gets
the Democratic Nomination. :patriot:

[opihimoimoi]

5. Maybe you should read A WOMAN IN CHARGE Carl Berstien

This lady withstood 14 YEARS of PUB Swift Boating...They tried everything to destroy her...NADA.....She is LEADING in the POLLs..

Get over it....

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

7. yeah, i'll get over having a wal-mart board member running the party

that'll be the day

[opihimoimoi]

15. Go ahead..stick with Pub Failure....

[hfojvt]

45. get over it?

The Republican slogan? Because the Great and Powerful moneyed elite have spoken?

[BobRossi]

6. I sit out the election.

I will not aid her destruction of the Democratic party.

[durrrty libby]

16. "I will not aid her destruction of the Democratic party."

Fucking Drama Queens around here are stupid laughable

[martymar64]

38. If you don't want our vote just say so

You're not doing your candidate any service by chasing away possible allies. If the Repubs win, you'll only have yourself to blame.

[chknltl]

43. hmmm

sitting out may indeed be aiding in the destruction of America instead. I hope you reconsider. What if your candidate gets the nod...would you want Senator Clinton supporters to sit that election out? Fair is fair!

What I wish to say is: We need you in there with us, regardless of who gets the Democratic nomination. The alternative to a Democrat in the White House has been plain for all to see...the next group of repuke candidates make Senator Clinton look like a dream ticket in comparison...
We can not work with any of them...at least with Senator Clinton, we will have a better chance of getting her to "Change the Course" if that be the case....we will continue to have none as it now stands...nor will we have any better chances for change with a repuke POTUS.

For what it is worth, I am hoping Al Gore throws his hat in the ring soon...he would be my dream candidate...

[Individualist]

8. I'll vote for DK, not Hillary.

[DemBones DemBones]

41. Me, too. Great sig line, BTW. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. It will put my weakening nose holding abilities to the ultimate test.

As it is, the odds are that the nose will successfully resist any such assault.

[Tesha]

10. Some of us will be surprised, others not, but we'll all be told to vote for her anyway.

> so when hillary wins the nom and inevitably goes to
> the right, then what?

Some of us will be surprised, others not, but we'll
all be told to vote for her anyway because this is
"like, the most important election in like, ever!"
and we dare not lose it, even if we're just electing
another type of Republican (quite literally; she was
a Republican during the days of her youthful indiscretions).

So our party will move even farther to the right and
even farther from its core principles.

And when the election is lost (because Hillary is an
appallingly awful choice of candidate and can only win
if she completely mobilizes a lot of formerly non-voting
women), many people here will, once again, just as
with John Kerry, be wondering "what happened??? How
the Hell did we lose to *HIM*???"

Tesha

[ThomCat]

11. That is exactly what I think will happen.

x(

[elocs]

13. What happens is that I, even as a liberal Democrat will vote for her.

Simple concept: the next president will either be a Democrat or a Republican. Even a President Clinton will appoint better Supreme Court justices than any Republican. So as a Democrat I will not pout and will support our candidate. I think we have all learned from the past 6 1/2 years what happens when Democrats do not support and vote for Democrats.

[Minimus]

18. I agree -the Supreme Court is exactly what will be on my mind come 2008.

[Middle finga]

14. Dem candidates just don't seem to have any respect for their

Base and are still able to win the primaries. Where as republican candidates are falling all over themselves trying to prove how crazy they are just to win the respect of their base. I mean Hillary is running as a centrist in the primaries so you know if she win the primaries she will move even further to right in the general. Here you have Dennis Kucinich who is as left leaning as you can wish for can't even get 5% support from the dem base. So the dem base need to choose who are you going to support, candidate that the MSM pick for you or the candidate that most represent your interest. I thought we had learned our lesson from 2004 with that "who's more electable" bullshit.

[BlooInBloo]

17. Then Clinton-haters will scream "Nyah! Nyah!" at all who don't sufficiently hate her.

[rubus]

20. Hillary is not my first choice.

I am one progressive person who believes the next Democrat President must be strong on national security and not show weakness by appearing to be defeatist and irresponsible in the face of obvious and on-going threats from islamic radical terrorists. A weak candidate like John Edwards can not win the general election, and Hillary understands this.

Otherwise, I do not like Hillary, but I will vote for her in the primary and general election, because she is our best hope to beat the republicans. This will be a terrible and nasty election, far worse than previous elections.

[BlooInBloo]

25. lolol!

[MadHound]

30. I have to disagree with that sentiment

"I am one progressive person who believes the next Democrat President must be strong on national security and not show weakness by appearing to be defeatist and irresponsible in the face of obvious and on-going threats from islamic radical terrorists."

Ghandi was correct, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Continuing to respond to "islamic radical terrorists" with our own version of shock and awe violence only leads to an ever increasing, more deadly cycle of violence. Rather than responding in a fashion that only feeds into their myth of imperialistic, genocidal crusaders, let us respond instead with an idea, a comprehensive show of how good America can actually be. I'm not stating that we should truly defend our borders, God knows with the hatred that we've engendered we're going to have to live with a terrorist threat for awhile. But instead we should also offer up our genorosity, our tolerance, our better nature as a country. Indeed, if after the Afghan war, Reagan had helped the Afghans with rebuilding from the war that they had fought with our blessing, we probably wouldn't have the Taliban take over there. Hell, this was one of the complaints of Bin Ladin. I'm not saying that we should be paying out ransom or what have you, but instead of responding with militance, we should repond with help. This is when we're at our best, and when the world thinks the best of us.

[EFerrari]

31. The last two federal elections were stolen. It gets worse than than?

[Dhalgren]

19. You know, one of the things that i don't get is the centrist (right) Democrats

constantly sneer at the lefties and say, "You are not important! You are fringe! You either vote like we say or drop dead!" Then when the Democrats lose the election, they turn around and say it is because the left "abandoned the Party!" The left"are traitors, who voted for someone else and cost us the election!" "Damn those lefty bastards!" It seems as though they shouldn't be able to have it both ways...

[durrrty libby]

23. Get real for 5 seconds. When people say they will"write in a name"

or "stay home"...What kind of a reaction do you think they should get?

Then it is fair to say they ARE traitors and they HAVE abandoned the party.


I am already sick of the little tantrum throwers, stomping their feet and

pooping their pants. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: Whiny annoying cry babies

[Dhalgren]

35. Well, then don't point your tiny, little sanctimonious finger at me

when you folks who control the Party lose again. Your Party either wants the "lefties" vote or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then stop crying about who we vote for. If we are "insignificant", then why do you even bother? We'll just take our grubby, little votes and go somewhere else - then we'll all be happy!

This for me :applause:

This for you :nopity:

[DemBones DemBones]

40. . . .

:yourock:

[Tesha]

47. See, I think people who nominate Republicans for our races are traitors. (NT)

[mps]

21. You're all going to GITMO!!!!!

When she becomes President for Life, she is going to get the names of every member of DU since 2004 and send you and your families to Gitmo; however, you will have to pay for your own health insurance!

MPS

[DKRC]

34. Haven't had insurance since 2004 so big damn difference in our lives.

[Old and In the Way]

22. If she wins the Democratic primaries and the nomination....

I'll be supporting her in the general. No brainer.

[librechik]

24. yeah, sheesh.

All for one! after the primaries.

[Captain Hilts]

26. She has a progressive voting record. Why would she go 'right'?

The ADA ranks her voting record as significantly more progressive than John Edwards' record also.

[MazeRat7]

28. Won't matter, if Hillary wins the nom... we lose the election. -nt

[NoPasaran]

29. Then she crushes whatever sadsack repub is on the ballot in 2008

And is sworn in as President at noon on January 20, 2009.

[emulatorloo]

32. Run to the right, govern to the left. Simple enough. eom

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. Then We Vote For Her And Do Everything In Our Grassroots Power To Ensure She's Elected.

And contrary to what some believe, I think she'd do just fine (though I'd prefer Gore).

[mmonk]

36. She can't possibly hold the lead.

And you don't know what will come of the early states. I can't bring myself to vote for her or imagine voting for her right now. Rightwing talking points and questionable company prevent her from my consideration.

[martymar64]

39. Her fan club here doesn't help her either, bunch of smarmy a-holes

With friends like them, who needs enemies. Without the left, she'll have to rely on republicans crossing over to vote for her and that ain't gonna happen. We may dislike her, but the right absolutely loathes her.
If she happened to someohow win the election, nothing will change. The Patriot Act will still be there, so will Gitmo. We'll be in Iraq for the whole of her term and the war will expand into Iran to satisfy her friends at AIPAC. Outsourcing will continue and Big Oil and Big Pharma will continue to rape the public with impunity. Domestic spying will continue and may even expand. Health Care will be further strangled by HMOs.
She might make some cosmetic changes but it'll only be for PR. The Bush Doctrine will survive and thrive under her.

The choice between her or a repug is like a choice between being raped or murdered. They both suck.