Senator Levin, you should be *ashamed* of yourself

[Wilderness Sportsman]

This is not what the country voted for, Senator Levin. This to me is shameful. Do the right thing. Why is that so hard?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19352490/

Democratic leaders hoped to complete the energy bill Thursday night, but senators close to the auto industry began an effort to derail the entire bill.

“We will be continuing to oppose it,” said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., “This is not over by any stretch.”

This is where Nader is spot on. Why would someone on the "good side" be against an increase in MPG standards?

[WCGreen]

1. All politics is local...

And if HArry Reid is a great leader, he will find the votes somewhere else in order to let his people vote the desires of the citizens who elected Senator Levin to represent them in Washington....

[fujiyama]

2. Fucking pathetic

He's good on many issues, but here's a good example where he's down there with some of the worst.

This is the problem with this state though. All the politicians (of BOTH parties - including other decent congressmen like Dingell and Conyers) will ALWAYS oppose anything seen as detrimental toward their bread and butter. They constantly defend the big three regardless of their actions.

The automakers are incredibly lazy. They're not innovative and with all the money they pay these politicians, they could put it towards R and D.

But as another poster said - it's all local. We know a republican would have opposed these fuel standard increases even more vehemently. Just like in the case of the bankruptcy bill, the senators from the
state do the local industry's bidding.

[Name removed]

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[Dollface]

4. He does far more good than harm.

He didn't turn his back on the Constitution. He can't do any good if he loses his seat. He represents Michigan for crying out loud. Besides, when it comes time to compromise, and it will, that is what its all about after all, he will be able to bring the Car Companies and the Unions to the table. Don't forget about that whole Union thing.

[BlooInBloo]

5. Doesn't matter - it's about as toothless as it could possibly be...

... Wouldn't surprise me in the least if Levin actually had a hand in *brokering* the toothlessness behind the scenes, and is just saying this as a smokescreen.

[Ilsa]

6. Levin is a great guy, but weasled out on this one. He's proof of how

the corporations are running the US.

[Hippo_Tron]

19. Not really, he's representing his constituents

[MessiahRp]

7. What makes no sense to me is this...

Automakers having to invest in alternative fuel sources and upping the MPG on cars is inevitable, not to mention when they actually cave (and all automakers will at some point) and create hydrogen cell cars they will need more workers to help implement such changes...

So Levin is throwing them a short term bone when he can do right by the entire country long term on forcing such changes.

Not to mention think how many more Michigan citizens would feel the impact of cars with much higher MPGs than those who might lose their jobs in such a push.

If Levin wants to be smart he should oppose these Free Trade Agreements and impose restrictions on companies liquidating jobs while supporting these fuel standards.

China has a booming economy and they have pushed their automobiles to MUCH higher MPG than ours. We lack Japan, China, even Europe's standards and that alone is helping kill the American auto industry because we are losing market share in our own country while being practically unwanted in other countries (after all would you buy a car that gets 25-30 MPG vs. a similarly priced car getting 60 MPG?).

Rp

[susanna]

8. It's obvious that YOU don't live in Michigan at

this point in history. It might feel different - no, hell - WOULD feel different to you.

But go on about demonizing one of the best Democrats of the bunch if it makes you all feel better.

[snowbear]

9. Levin is a pretty cool guy...

Not crazy about the way he wears those glasses.. .. but he's been a PITBULL when we've needed him to be!

[susanna]

15. Yes he has.

I stand behind him.

A lot of people on this board have NO earthly idea of how bad it really is in Michigan at the moment. I pray to any and all deities that they never will know what's going on here. It is really, really bad.

Levin stands up for 99.9% of what other Democrats want. People should lay off, IMHO. But I am biased. Somewhat. :-)

On edit: really glaring spelling error. Oops...

[magellan]

10. What do Michigan's problems have to do with upping fuel standards?

People have been out of work there for a long time. The auto industry will latch onto any excuse not to spend the money they should to turn out a product that can compete with imports. If they did they wouldn't be in the dire straits they are, and neither would Michigan auto workers.

But no problemo. Let them keep churning out gas guzzlers. If global warming doesn't wipe out the American auto industry completely, peak oil will.

[susanna]

12. All right, I'm up to it. I work in this industry

...that most on DU find so terribly onerous, even though y'all drive cars, I'm sure.

Toyota was on board with the DOMESTIC manufacturers' compromise proposal (look it up). Once it appeared that the House would pass the bill that passed yesterday, they said, "well, we can live with it." Flip flop indeed. IMHO, Toyota is WHATEVER YOU WANT THEM TO BE. Even they know you can't create fuel efficiency in a country that values their SUVs and AWDs above all else. For the record, THAT is the US market.

I have no problem with conservation. I do it at home; I compost, grow my own vegetables, recycle clothing, and every damn thing else. What I will never understand is people who don't understand the "mass" in mass production and think that all American consumers will suddenly up and buy a Prius. They WON'T.

Yes, many people in Michigan are out of work. Yes, our domestic automakers are suffering.

One thing YOU don't understand: the domestic (and foreign) auto industry's R&D budgets are phenomenal. They're huge. Without them, you, the consumer, would not have: automatic transmissions, safety glass, air conditioning, seat belts, air bags, anti-lock brakes, roll stability control, run-flat tires, OnStar on cars, continuously variable transmission (CVT), hybrid technology.

In summation, Michigan folks build amazingly complex vehicles that that can run ten years through all kinds of abuse that unknowing folks heap upon them. But we're stupid rubes who don't know about the world or technology. So I guess we should be discounted from your view of the world, since you're so much smarter.

Tell me: what have you researched and engineered today? Here's a phrase from Michigan for ya, in case you're lost on that question: "We do the math, so you don't have to."

[magellan]

13. Onerous? Maybe

Because you went totally off the deep end for no reason I can see. I didn't call the auto industry or any part of it stupid, or rubes, or make myself out to be smarter. I asked a question. Which you didn't answer, apart from blaming American consumers for their SUV/AWD addiction. (And I'd add that even though US auto makers keep giving US consumers what they allegedly want, they're still in trouble.)

Maybe it's time for US auto makers to stop screwing their workers and worshiping the almighty dollar, and start doing what's RIGHT for a change. Not everyone wants to be a cowboy. We'd gladly trade in our little Jeep for an unadulterated Smart Car or affordable hybrid. Guess we'll just have to wait for Japan or the EU to come through for us.

[susanna]

14. You do that.

I'll explain to all the folks I personally know, out of work, that you're taking one for the home team!

People are still buying SUVs. In BIG numbers. We have to keep making them, or then we're "not giving the people what they want." I guess my question to you is: what exactly do you think the domestics should do? Stop building work trucks? Stop building taxi cab cars? Stop building...you get where I'm going.

You seem to know just what we should do. I'd love to hear what your idea would be to turn the domestic auto industry around, aside from the "build what the people want." We're still not sure what that is, based on sales figures from dealerships nationwide.

On edit: I thought of some more things I wanted to ask.

[magellan]

16. Fine with me.

If not buying an expensive item that will disadvantage my family for years to come puts me on the outs with the unemployed auto workers you know, so be it. I should think they'd understand another American trying to stay out of the financial hardship they find themselves, wholly due to the bad (and disloyal) decisions of their ex-employers.

But don't worry. According to you, most of America will buy. Suddenly, after all these years.

[susanna]

17. So now YOU didn't answer my question.

What should the domestic automakers do to please you? I'm curious, honestly. Or, are you one of those folks who had a sh!tty car in the 80s who will never look at a domestic product again? (That happens.)

If you want the domestics to succeed, please, tell me what your thoughts are.

[magellan]

21. Get serious about fuel efficiency

Produce small, affordable hybrids and highly fuel efficient cars like the EU has been doing for years. (The r&d has already been done.)

Test self-service electric car fleets along with recharging stations in a few cities where mass transportation is a problem, and let people have at it. (Again, the r&d has already been done.)

Essentially, decide to be a leader on the issue of global warming and foreign oil demand instead of continually balking over the cost of adopting the advances other nations are making.

[susanna]

23. Not a problem.

Many of the domestics already have huge numbers of flex-fuel vehicles. Who did the R&D on those? They did.

Some of them even have hybrids, developed in-house. Who did the R&D? They did. They have been doing their part, though not fast enough according to folks on this board.

The fact is, most of this is our Congress' fault. They could have raised CAFE at any time, incrementally, over years instead of now trying to make up for past mistakes and creating an engineering nightmare. Platforms are not pulled out of a hat; years and years of testing go into making them stable enough for the mass market.

Most of the domestics have amazing diesel technology with high-MPG in Europe, but you know what? Americans, of most stripes, are either wary of diesel or downright hostile to it.

All I've been trying to say, and probably not doing a great job at it, is this: Toyota was on the side of the domestics with the amendment pushing slower adoption of fuel economy rules, and for a reason. They're going to have a hard time implementing it, too! (Folks who love their nice cushy Toyota or Honda SUVs can probably kiss them goodbye so those companies can make the target.)

The other problem I have with this bill is 1) letting oil companies off the hook completely and 2) denying ANY automaker some leeway with their flex-fuel capable vehicles.

That's all I'll say on the subject, but this legislation reeks to me of self-righteous zeal with no scientific, logical or reasonable debate.

Out.

[Name removed]

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[orleans]

20. what does that mean? that some of us don't live in michigan?

at this point in history?

my understanding is that if he is opposing this bill, all it will serve to do is to keep american car makers LESS competitive on the market because more and more people will be buying toyotas with better gas mileage.

(it's late & maybe i'm missing something--maybe i'm missing the whole fucking point--but if that's what levin is doing it is a big mistake. i mean, how many of your friends are all running out to buy one of those piece of shit hummers?)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. Well, I Find The Whole Bill To Practically Be A Sham To Begin With.

Average economy of 35 MPG by 2020? Are they fucking for real? We should be able to have that average in new cars by 20 fucking 10. By 2020, the average goddamn standard should be nothing less than fucking 60 or so. I'm floored at how low the bar is set sometimes.

35 mpg in the next 13 years. That's our big aggressive approach towards innovation. You've got to be kidding me.

(on edit: sure, it's better than not having any bill; of course, but it still pisses me off that this is all they're striving for.)

[Major Hogwash]

18. Levin should be ashamed. 30 pieces of silver in exchange for the environment ain't right.

I don't know why raising the CAFE standards would bother him unless he thinks we can afford to drive gas guzzlers until the day we die.

[susanna]

24. So Levin is responsible...

...for a million folks buying gas guzzlers? Please, tell me more.

[spanone]

22. Politics trumps common sense.