Why does Congress set so many far off goals for everything?....

[bamacrat]

The Senate passed an energy bill that mandated that all cars and SUVs will have to get 35 mpg by the year 2020.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/21/congress.energy.ap/index.html

Why 2020 why not 2010, can the automakers really not come up with ways to increase fuel mileage? A man was fined for converting his 1981 Mercedes to run of cooking oil, why won't Congress turn to the private sector and employee these people who are converting their engines and taking a step instead of setting meaningless goals. By 2020 the oil in this world may be all gone, I had to rant.

:mad: :smoke: :wtf:

[Art_from_Ark]

1. They like handing off responsibility to others

It's the old "political hot potato" game

[Posteritatis]

2. They can say they've set the goals, but don't have to meet 'em. (nt)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

3. so they can look good on paper

but continue to fellate their corporate masters

[Rosemary2205]

4. It hasn't changed much in over 100 years.

The model T got about the same mileage as the average sedan now. The difference is that now the cars are much heavier, go much faster, and carry a bigger payload. Perfect example. Ford's F150 pickup has increased it's payload and towing capacity by about 30%, can now seat 6 large adults and still improved it's gas mileage slightly over the last 10 years. We also have heat and air conditioning.

Getting the average to 35mpg is not going to be easy for car makers - even the Civic and Corolla are much bigger vehicles than they were 30 years ago - and as American get bigger they are going to expect bigger vehicles. -- It's not the car makers that are a problem. It's the entire American way of thinking about vehicles that's got to change and that will definately be a slow and painful process.

[global1]

7. I'm Sorry - Why Must We Always Make Excuses......

you mean to tell me we can put a man on the moon and we don't currently have the technology to get 50 mpg's in a car. I don't believe it. If they wanted to they can do it - but they don't want to. By they - I mean the car manufacturers. They are in the pocket of big oil or being held hostage by big oil.

When will one auto maker get smart and put out a line of cars (non-hybrid) that can get 50+ mpg's and market it to the hilt? They don't have to wait until 2020 to do this. The U.S. auto industry is suffering - they can turn it around if they only went for it and did this as quick as possible.

We make excuses for everything these days. Cut with the excuses and get on with the job.

[Rosemary2205]

8. The reality is

we can get well above 50mpg in very small cars and still have a product people will actually buy. Once you get into bigger, heavier vehicles - especially trucks - the ability to get the MPG up is limited by horsepower needs. The technology just isn't there quite yet to create products people will buy.

Do you really think Honda quit production of it's Accord hybrid because they are in bed with big oil? Hardly. They stopped production because Americans were not buying it in big enough quantities to make it cost effective to build it. Toyota is likewise considering not producing the Camry hybrid for the 2008 model year because it's sales are so low. Ford Motor company gave us the first hybrid SUV - the Escape. The sales were terrible because people didn't think the higher cost for the vehicle was cost effective.

If I'm wrong then so be it. Show me something, anything, that the technology is there to produce a full line of vehicles with drastically higher gas mileage that the public will actually buy. Show me something, anything, that proves ALL of the car companies are in collusion with big oil. I'll read anything you link me to. I really will.

[Alcibiades]

9. They also tinkered with the way MPG

is tested to make all those hybrid models look less efficient than heretofore. Perhaps one reason why some sales have lagged.

With $3.00 gas, however, I think longterm growth prospects are strong for this market segment. This is another excuse for American automakers and their lazy executives. Had they agressively gone after this technology, as Toyota did, our country would be better off.

[Rosemary2205]

12. Really?

I'm just wondering what the motivation for Edmunds and Consumer Reports to lie about hybrid gas mileage - and what would be the motivation for people on car nut boards all over the US to lie about the hybrid gas mileage?

Prius has been very popular with people who need a "run around town" car and serves it's purpose incredibly well. But when you get to Camry, Accord, Taurus (it's baaaack) etc - you are talking about a family car that quite often hits the freeways - when the price difference between the regular and hybrid version is in the $1000's and the difference in actual reported average gas mileage is under 10mpg (not the sticker, but what indy testers are getting) then consumers don't see the advantage.

I agree that the potential in the future for hybrids in a car makers lineup is good - but the question in the OP, and the general claim, is that ALL car companies are deliberately keeping MPG down to benefit big oil. I just don't see that. I really don't.

Regarding the Americans - IMHO Ford should just retool itself into a truck based car company and drop kick everything but the Mustang, it's SUV's and the F150 on up. They've blown it so bad for so long on cars that their prospects of getting back into that market, IMHO are slim to none. GM - what to say about GM other than they are just retards. It's so easy to blame the union schmucks for your troubles instead of building cars people want to buy. I truly hope they can regenerate themselves instead of barely limping along. We'll see. Dodge I don't even count anymore. The Germans ripped it to shreds and god only knows what will happen there from this point on.

[wuushew]

11. I don't believe that

Do you have a link showing that there will be no 2008 Hybrid Camry in the U.S.?

[Rosemary2205]

15. The decision has not been made yet.

My uncle is somewhat well connected in the auto reporting business and it's "insider" information so sorry no link. I think the initial sales in (may and june) 2006 were around 4000 a month just for the hybrid camry and if I remember correctly the sales in may 2007 were just short of 7000 units. So the market is growing. The sales are nowhere near the sales for Prius, Corolla or even Yaris. Toyota expected a bigger market for the Camry Hybrid than it's getting. I, for one, hope they stick it out and let the Camry Hybrid grow it's market share - or tinker with it and fix whatever is bringing slower than expected sales. At this point there's just some grumbling going on in Corporate and they are not anywhere near making a firm decision.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/06/01/050193.html

[global1]

5. Because By 2020 Most Won't Be Around To Accept The Blame......nt

[NewJeffCT]

6. Because redesigns of cars don't happen overnight

The 2010 model year cars are probably already past the initial design stages. If there are any model-line changes, they've probably already gone past the test phase and are just ironing out any glitches that have come up...

If GM or Ford came up with a new engine today that increased mileage 25% without losing horsepower, it would likely take at least a few years for those new engines to actually made it into cars. It involves re-tooling the whole supply chain - updating supplier contracts, possibly finding new suppliers, etc, etc. Finding a new supplier doesn't happen overnight - there is likely a process in place where the factories and supplies are certified by somebody from GM or Ford (a process that could take months) and then there are negotiations handled by teams of lawyers and executives (also taking months), and also finance people involved and so on and so forth.

[Alcibiades]

10. So that they can claim credit today

and any pain (in this case, the automakers') is postponed as long a possible.

[BlooInBloo]

13. So it looks like they're doing something, but not *actually* doing something...

... It's what the corporations want.

[blues90]

14. It seems to me that it's always been this way

The reality is auto manufactureres could have reached these goals years ago . Back in the mid 70's all were going to make small 4 cyl fuel efficient cars and many did . It seems once the so called gas shortage vanished so did the idea of saving fuel and along america came with the suv's and big v-8's .

It's always been alot of empty promises by admins , even though some progress may be made the next president comes along and wipes the slate clean .

Carter had great ideas and reagan came along and destroyed all trace .

[Phredicles]

16. Didn't the point come up in "An Inconvenient Truth" that Europe and even China (!) have

more fuel-efficient cars, even those made by the same companies that manufacture cars to sell in the US? Now, I don't know if fuel-efficient corresponds exactly to MPG, but the implication sure seemed to be that the technology already exists for higher fuel standards. They just aren't observed here because they don't have to be. It's been almost a year since I saw the film but that's sure what I think Mr. Gore said.