"I'm a Liberal." ........ "I'm a Progressive" ...... well ...... I'm confused.

[Stinky The Clown]

Why do we have two words that seem to mean the same thing?

Is a progressive a liberal liberal?

Is a liberal a less liberal progressive?

Does this seeming duplication help or hinder communication?

Is it an attempt to get away from the Republic habit of spitting the word 'liberal' as if it was as offensive as the word 'fuck'?

Is it an attempt to differentiate the left from the 'far left'?

I'm confused .........

[Forkboy]

1. I think "progressive" came into use when everyone started fleeing from the term "liberal".

I take them to mean pretty much the same thing,though I'm sure some will add some nuance to it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. I say there is no difference - it's all because the conservatives have

demonized "liberal" so long.

But that's coming from a damn pinko socialist.

[HereSince1628]

3. I'm a progressive...at least in my own mind.

I know that some people actually use progressive as a dodge around "liberal" but I don't.

IMO a progressive believes that the nation should be a better place (i.e. progress is needed).
Progress is measured by the expansion of liberty, justice, equality and increases in those things that dignify existance.

Rightly, or wrongly as you may view it, while I find the open-mindedness associated with "liberal" attractive, I'm giving up on the tolerance thing. Some things are really intolerable and some things threaten to become intolerable. Progress to this point can be held only by resistance, gains only by deciding to move forward.

[557188]

4. Progressive is accurate

Americans misuse the word Liberal because of the hilarious lack of political education here.

In historical terms a Liberal meant what America basically calls a Libertarian for the most part. In political theory we have to call those people "Classical Liberals". Those who favor economic freedom over social freedom. They are likely to go on about the benefits of the free market. Because American is based off those Liberal ideals, people tended to use the word liberal focusing on the social issues.

Progressive, on the other hand, is a catch all term meaning progressive ideals of the left. Generally people who put social issues above economic freedom. Also most progressives tend to favor a more socialist approach in regards to Government control of the economy (such as Universal Health care).

[TahitiNut]

7. As I understand it, the term "liberal" goes back to the formation of a "democratic" republic.

It goes back to the 'Age of Enlightenment,' afaik. For me, it's an essential qualifier of a "democratic" form of governance - essential in adopting self-imposed limitations on the rule of the majority in potentially oppressing a minority (i.e. "mob rule"). The atomic minority is the individual, and liberalism emphasizes individual rights and freedoms as opposed to the aggregate will, where an 'aggregate' can be as large as a entire nation. The principles of liberalism essentially constrain the majority from depriving a minority of equal protection, both under the law and extra-legally.

If the term "liberal" was good enough for Rawls, it's good enough for me. :shrug:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rawls


When I hear the term "progressive," I think of the liberal wing of the Republican party ... and Teddy Roosevelt.

[557188]

12. It's all in regards to propety laws

The great Liberal thinkers wanted to have the status of the Aristocracy elite. That included such things as property rights and so forth. They didn't care about the needs of society they were more concerned about having the ability to build their own wealth. Government, to them, should only exist as a means to protect their property. "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Property" being perhaps the most famous example.

They were in favor of minority rule, they just wanted different rulers (ie themselves).

[TahitiNut]

17. "The Politics of Property" vs. "The Politics of People" ... the historical schism.

The emphasis on property sounds suspiciously like the way PoliSci would be taught at Pepperdine or American University. It's sure not how it's taught at Michigan State.

[ananda]

5. I'm a liberal leftie..

.. which includes progressive.

I think Progressives are basically cowards who don't
want to use the word liberal to describe themselves.

[557188]

6. Cowards

Heaven forbid we actually know what the terms actually mean!

[uppityperson]

8. I'm uppity! Onward!

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Is that a party affiliation or a philosophical label?

Are you kindred travelers called 'Uppiters? or Uppities? or maybe Uppitites?

:)

[Matsubara]

9. To me, "liberal" has a very upper-middle-class/rich connotation...

My image of liberals is people who want integration and gay rights, and maybe even some help for the poor, but just don't build the housing project near THEIR neighborhood. People who are more concerned with social issues than economic justice issues.

(If you call yourself a liberal and don't think this way, please don't start berating me over it. It's just my IMPRESSION of original connotation of the word, and there are still some liberals like this today)

Progressives were always the more vocal lefties, the ones who might have actually helped the Panthers distribute food or organized a strike, not afraid to get their hands dirty and make waves.


But in the 80s, the rightwing propaganda gurus successfully changed "liberal" (which had been a rather centrist-sounding word) into something more ominous-sounding, associated with bureaucracy and collectivism. So a lot of people who were liberals started to use the name "progressive" because they thought it sounded nicer.


All the labels seem very muddled today. A lot of people who really don't fit the old definition of liberal now define themselves as such.

To me, liberal still seems too bourgeoise, too milquetoast.

I'll stick with progressive or democratic socialist.

[annabanana]

13. no no no ..that's "HYPOCRITE", not "liberal". . . . n/t

[BlooInBloo]

11. Because "liberal" used to be a bad word, and then liberals remembered they had balls.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. I'm an Anarchist. I have no idea whether that's "liberal" or "progressive".

Fortunately, being an Anarchist, I don't have to give a rip.

So sue me.

[johnlal]

15. I think there was a tricky play on words...

Rush Limbaugh and his ilk invoked the "liberal" label implying an alternative meaning-- i.e. loose, lacking moral restraint. The sneering of the word "liberal" was part of building a boogeyman, the morally challenged wierdo or hippie or feminazi who is out of the mainstream.

To me, being a Liberal means invoking the right to Liberty.
We have a huge statue dedicated to Liberty... And a Bell!
Liberty is mentioned throughout our Declaration of Independence and Constitution.
"Give me Liberty or give me Death!"
If we keep the name "Liberal" we will always remember liberty.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. Is "liberal progressive" similar to "shrimp scampi"?

[bigtree]

18. I just don't know.

But I do know that to exclude recognizing 'progressives' from recognition in a discussion and just mentioning 'liberals' makes some folks feel left out.

And, I've found in recent years, that legislators who I grew up with and identified with, who identified themselves as 'liberal' are now under attack by progressives as some sort of 'moderates'

[Rincewind]

19. personally

I'm a moderately Conservative progressive liberal.