Will no one save us? (Yawn.)

[IdaBriggs]

Confession Time: I don't like politics. Up until Junior was selected, I did my "voter duty" as an Informed Independent, and voted for the candidate who I thought would do the best job. I was always under the impression (naive, I admit) that the folks running wanted to do a GOOD job, and that good people could have different opinions, and yet somehow, everything would work out.

Politics wasn't really that big of a deal in my life, except for Reagan and his AWFUL policies. But he seemed like such a NICE man on television -- how could such a NICE person ignore AIDS, cut cancer funding, and deny infertility research? (Yes, those are some of my pet issues -- pick your own.)

As a day to day thing, politics doesn't really seem to matter. Yes, my father died of cancer, and I battled infertility for eight years, but the decisions by the folks in Washington were made many years before, and none of the people who made the decisions about those things have been held to account, so really, who cares? (Yawn.) My twins came early (doing great, thank you), and frankly, I'm kind of focused. I can't do anything about Gonzales, Cheney or Junior except make some phone calls which fall on deaf ears. Those people are firmly entrenched in their corruption, and I am busy changing diapers. I can't do anything else, and after watching the futility of trying to get "elected leaders" to do anything (like imprison the criminals or impeach or pay attention to the constitution), I'm not sure I'll really be doing much else in the future.

I'm tired. And not just tired due to the lack of sleep that comes with being a new mom, but bone deep exhausted. My country is in pitiful shape, and I can only watch in despair as common sense becomes common place corruption.

Its a fraternity. Everyone's doing it, and the "non-cool kids" are the only ones complaining. Scooter Libby orchestrated the outing of a SPY MASTER, probably got a bunch of our people KILLED, and isn't even in jail yet. Gonzales thinks the constitution is so much toilet paper, and we have a drunken oil scion too rude to use lube as he bends us over.

My flower beds haven't been weeded yet this year. My babies are sleeping, and I still haven't sent out the birth announcements (they are four months old now). If I could fix the problems in Washington, I'd do it, but honestly, the dictatorship seems to be firmly established.

We lost. Life goes on. A few convictions here and there mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Unless something "major" happens, and the head of this dragon is cut off, we will simply have to accept that we do *NOT* live in a representative democracy -- we live in a petty dictatorship, where a few corrupt families can gleefully steal *ALL* of our wealth while contributing nothing to the rest of the planet.

I am not going to waste my time walking around in circles anymore. Unless someone can give me a CONCRETE piece of action that will actually make a flaming difference, I'm afraid I'm going to simply give up all hope.

I feel like a foolish peasant waving my fist at the passing nobles. Where is Superman? Robin Hood? Any super hero with a badge who can take these monsters off to jail where they belong?

Will no one save us???

[rudy23]

1. Think about it this way--your Republican counterpart has an endless reservoir of energy to get what

they want. Just a little something I tell myself to stay motivated.

[cassiepriam]

And endless money to bribe and threaten everyone into compliance.

[bigtree]

3. as my old friend and coworker Guy Washington used to say

"Good always leaves, but bad comes to stay."

[LaurenG]

2. Ida WE will save ourselves. I'm hopeful that it won't take 20 more years.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

4. No. No one will.

That's our job.

[martymar64]

33. We can't rely on our "representatives"

Our entreaties only fall on deaf ears, they don't listen unless you come bearing a big check. Working within the system is an exercise in futility. We're quickly running out of options. All that will be left will be to flee or revolt. I don't want either to happen (hear that Agent Mike?) but eventually we may not have a choice. Chances are, Bush will be using the Blackwater mercenaries on us rather than leave the White House.

[melody]

5. Sounds like the kind of mindset the GOP has psychops people to foster

Resist your programming ... continue to give a damn. If you genuinely don't give a damn,
why bring babies into this world?

[IdaBriggs]

6. Why bring babies into the world? That's a stupid question!

Babies are about HOPE and the future! They are my joy and my life!

Somehow we will all survive this disasterous period in our history -- but it doesn't mean that its going to be good.

Sorry to get all Mamma Bear protective, but since you are talking to an infertility patient, you are asking a hot button question that totally pisses me off. Why on EARTH should I have to justify to you or anyone else (including the d*mn doctors) why I want to participate in having a NORMAL life -- to be a part of the PRO-CREATION process? GRRR.....

[karlrschneider]

7. Please don't take offense, but aren't you contradicting yourself here?

I mean you basically said there's "no hope" and immediately after touted the babies as -being- the hope...?
Forgive me for being confused. I totally understand your devotion to your kids (my brother & his wife battled the problem too then got triplets...they love their threesome but have told me confidentially they kinda wish they hadn't tried quite so hard).
:-)

[IdaBriggs]

9. "No hope" for fixing the administration doesn't necessarily mean

"no hope" for life. We will not be the first human beings who live through challenging and horrible times. I think it is part of why I am getting a "hunker down and survive" mentality myself. Sigh.

No offense taken, by the way. And kudos to the parents of triplets! I'm having a tough time with two -- I can't picture trying to survive THREE!!! Thank heavens for the Dunstan baby lady...she really has saved my sanity with "the secret language of babies."

There I go again -- talking about something important to ME! And its not just because my babies are the most wonderful, etc. Its because with THEM, I can actually MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

With politics lately, I feel like just an observer/victim. :(

[karlrschneider]

11. I apologize, I misunderstood your point. I assumed you meant no hope for

any of us. Teach your children well. :D

[melody]

16. Please!

You said: **We lost. Life goes on. A few convictions here and there mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Unless something "major" happens, and the head of this dragon is cut off, we will simply have to accept that we do *NOT* live in a representative democracy -- we live in a petty dictatorship, where a few corrupt families can gleefully steal *ALL* of our wealth while contributing nothing to the rest of the planet.**

That isn't a discussion about this administration, it's a commentary on society itself.

Fine, have your rant, but don't then come back at people who saw your point in the first place.

[melody]

15. You called her on it exactly

She may be backing away from it now, but her little epistle was a paean to hopelessness.

[melody]

14. Not a stupid question in the least if you have no hope in the future

You're the one preaching hopelessness in a public forum. You're the one who stated the
game rules. If you honestly think the world isn't worth working for, I'd suggest
your Mama Bear protectiveness should have been to first not bring children into
that hopeless a world. You don't have to justify anything to anyone unless you're the
one up here taking the floor to assert your theory. You can say whatever you like, and
I can say I think bringing children into a world you consider hopeless is the essence of child abuse. It shuns responsibility for your parental role, if you really look at the world that way.

[MichiganVote]

28. Well God forbid anyone should preach anything in a public forum.

Especially optimism. Like saying that bringing kids into the world when you're unconvinced of a sunny bunny future for them is child abuse. Like calling someone depressed when they may be having something as normal as low point. Or telling the mother of 4 month old twins she's shunning her responsibility for parenting. Got to get to em' early that's for sure. Nip that "theory" in the bud cuz' Sweet Jesus knows you shouldn't have to avoid reading posts on a public forum that are depressing for you.

Yup, that's you and me baby. Uplifting optimism all the way. :)

[melody]

31. Did you read her original post?

Or are you coming into the middle of the discussion?

She was suggesting that the end was at hand and we should all give up hope. So
who is the one trying to speak for optimism? ;)

I honestly wonder if anyone reads back in a thread before posting here anymore.

[MichiganVote]

32. Yes, I read the post. And I read yours. And no, she was not suggesting the end is nigh.

Anymore than you're the poster child for all that's bright and shiny. Get light, you travel heavy.

[melody]

43. Get heavy, when you're too light, you act irresponsibly ;)

At that note, this ludicrous thread has gone even more ridiculous. This will be my last post.

[IdaBriggs]

40. I have gone back and re-read this thread pretty thoroughly trying to

understand just where you are coming from, and I think you are possibly reading more about your own life (and viewpoints) into my comments than you are reading the reality of my life.

I do not suffer from clinical depression. Heck, I don't even have post partum depression, although I did have a minor meltdown last week when both babies were crying at the same time, and I couldn't figure out how to fix their problems simultaneously. The problem was exacerbated by the fact I was on a minimal amount of sleep, and when I anxiously questioned the doctor about it (as an infertility patient, I have an 80% chance of doing the post partum thing, so I'm trying to be very aware), she said it sounded more like exhaustion than depression. I think she is/was right, and am now trying to schedule adequate naps with "helpers" into my world. (Its a lot harder than you would think!)

I do not consider the world a hopeless place. I consider this administration to be hopelessly corrupt, and I occasionally (currently) despair that we can get it fixed anytime soon. I am becoming cynically convinced that it is viewed as NORMAL -- and that at some level, its time to start getting on with life and stop stressing about it. As another poster has already put it so eloquently, I'm tired of being outraged....

My children are the joy of my life. It was EIGHT YEARS of struggle to get them, and your comment just rubbed me the wrong way. Frankly, your attitude continues to do so, but its a public message board, and part of why we are here is to share diverse opinions. I find yours to be odd -- I reserve charges of child abuse for much more heinous crimes than being born -- but, if you are someone who suffers from a mental illness, then you may have had to make a challenging decision about your own progeny or potential progeny, and you may have come to a different decision than I did. Again, most "depressive" periods of my life have been situational in nature, and I can count my lucky stars about that! When I think of some of the darkest moments, and then contemplate having to deal with that DAILY -- SHUDDER!!! I don't know where folks with these problems find the courage to go on all the time, and sadly, I know that not all do. There, but for the grace of a higher power, go I....

I am not a Psy Ops person for the Republican Party. They do not pay me to be publicly Angry or Depressed about the state of this nation. I am a fellow human being who is really starting to wonder what the point of paying attention to politics really is because I don't feel like I'm making a difference, and its starting to feel like a complete waste of time when more important things (diapers and crying babies) are competing for my limited attention.

I went away for a period of time when the babies were born due to being hospitalized/getting pre-eclampsia/emergency c-section/etc. and you know something? The folks in Washington didn't notice. Nothing changed. I think there were at least two or three manufactured crises during that period, and some rich woman who posed naked for a magazine and then married an old geezer for his money died.

Yawn.

Anyway, the babies are starting to stir, and I'm tired. Go in peace. We aren't talking about the same thing, so there isn't anything to argue about. Good luck in future endeavors, and I hope you have a career that takes advantage of your speedy typing skills! :)

[melody]

42. Who said you're psychops? I said you're in a bad mood, taking it out on everyone

No, I have no doubt you're not depressed. My point is, if you were really depressed, you'd never
have made that posting. You wanted to grandstand and have a fit at the world. I know you don't
really feel the way you've claimed to -- that's my whole point.

I've made this point many times. You gloom-and-doom people pout and snivel and leave these things
behind you. 25% of the people on this board, just going by statistics, suffer from some form of
clinical depression. One in three of those people will attempt suicide sometime during your life.
Are you responsible for that? Of course not, but whenever someone starts one of these downward spirals,
I counter them.

It's always not only what you're writing, but the reader is reading.

And yes, I have a career that benefits from my typing speed, although it's not that fast in comparison
these days.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

8. Geez.

Give up already but don't spread that despair, here,...please. PLEASE.

I let you go and send my very best hope to you and your family.

[IdaBriggs]

10. With a user name like yours, you are calling ME out on depression?

LOL! :)

I'm having a moment. I think I'm really looking for some folks to tell me how wrong I am, and then give me some brilliant ideas about how to FIX things....

Please? ANYONE?

[redqueen]

13. We all have days of low energy.

We're here for ya. :pals:

[IdaBriggs]

37. Thanks, RedQueen! I appreciate the support!

Also, in regards to the other poster, let me say "thank you" for being so nice about stuff, and what an honor it was to be confused with you stylistically -- woo hoo! :)

[melody]

17. There's no hope. Why give you ideas?

I have clinical depression. You don't need to advise me about clinical depression.
Truly depressed people must see the bright side of things. Those who like to oppress
and discourage are those who post such diatribes. You want a reason to do nothing.
You don't need anyone's permission to do that -- just do nothing.

[redqueen]

18. Oooh you're a psychic?

Tell me what number I'm thinking of!

:eyes:

[melody]

19. Redqueen, choose one ID and stick to it, will you?

Incidentally, if you bothered to read "her" post, I was obviously speaking to her
game rules, not my own.

[redqueen]

20. ID? I only have one... wtf are you talking about?

I was referring to your assertion that you knew what she was doing better than she does.

Must be nice to be able to read minds.

[melody]

21. Obviously, as I said, you didn't read the notes in context

Or didn't grasp my assertions.

My point is SHE is the one saying the world is hopeless. SHE is the one
asserting, as she did in her initial post, there's no reason to go on.
I made no such assertions. I'm merely reading the inference of her phrasing.
It would be mind-reading to attempt to see anything less than that in her post.
I'm seeing what is there. Only she knows any "real" intent.

[redqueen]

22. You know how sometimes

people say suicide is a call for help?

It's kinda like that.

Why are you obsessing over this thread?

And why did you accuse me of having two ID's?

:shrug:

[melody]

24. Why are you obsessing over someone else "obsessing"? lol

In my experience, depressed people don't try to provoke others to be depressed.

I type 105 wpm. I make a lot of posts. No need to monitor them.

Because you have a very similar syntax to the OP. In fact, I think you are the OP.

[redqueen]

27. you're a hoot. n/t

[hfojvt]

30. You could not be more wrong.

There is always way too much hyperbolic pessimism on this board. It only seems hopeless because you read the Jeremiads of the doom and gloomers, those who want Apocalypse NOW! Those to whom one, even one, miscarriage of justice, ruins the entire barrel of apples and spells the doom of society and the world :argh: :nuke: :scared: :hide:

It's not gonna be easy, and we won't get everything we want (like the head of our enemies on a silver platter, or even their bodies in an orange jumpsuit - but to me the prosecution of those criminals is secondary to repairing the damages they have done). You just need to find more hopeful news and threads. I understand Katie is doing some of that on CBS.

I would definitely say that your vote next November for Hillary and Ben Nelson do matter. We need to keep Congress and gain the White House, but even that is not gonna make everyone here happy. They are gadflies, trying to pester the powerful and keep them honest (or more honest at least).

[redqueen]

12. No one has ever saved us. All good things come from the people.

Bottom-up, not top-down.

You want an example? That McGovern amendment to cut funding to SOA/WHINSEC was voted down, again... but this time by only SIX votes. Last time it was 35. I can't help but think that all the calls and letters and e-mails and faxes were behind that shift. Next time, we will succeed.

It takes a lot of us, and it takes a lot of calls / letters / e-mails / faxes. But we can do it. We have to. What else is there to do? Wait around to die?

NGU.

[wiggs]

23. Agree with all you say. And congratulations on the little ones. My little ones

just graduated from high school yesterday (twins...maybe yours are too?). It goes so, so quickly. You're very lucky to have a lot of wonderful time with the kids ahead of you.

Back to the OP sentiment....this has been set up over three decades at a cost of billions of dollars with potentially trillions of dollars on the line. It is not going to go away soon, I'm afraid. Especially not if a corporatist from either party (most of the candidates) is elected this time around.

In 2004, I thought the only ways out of this long-planned coup were 1) a special prosecutor immune to political pressure and who would follow misdeeds to the top, 2) a deep, deep, insider whistleblower with impeccable creds, and 3) a hero so compelling that the nation would follow and he would lead us honestly and with integrity. None of the three have materialized so far, though we've flirted with all of them. Sorry.

[bonito]

25. Your becoming stronger n/t

[MichiganVote]

26. Oh hang on. Something will happen. And for the mommy part of you...

Its takes at least a year to adjust to all the huge changes that occur as you get used to motherhood. Handling those changes in combination with taking care of twins...I'm surprised you have the energy for anything political. Its ok if you check out of the political world for however long you want. Others will step up.

[Hubert Flottz]

29. You can save you and you know you can.

Did you ever hear about the little engine that could?

IdaBriggs you are my hero...you can't let your babies grow up in some damned banana republican republic. The criminal element wants you to feel like there is no hope. If you give up hope these neoCon terra-ists win.

It took our country a long time to sink to this disgusting level and it may take a long time to repair the damage, but repair it we must, for the sake of the babies!

I'm old and I'm tired and I'm sick too, but I ain't gonna' give up till I'm worm poop.

[GeorgeGist]

34. Be grateful ...

that you don't have an endless reservoir of noble lies to tell yourself; like the monsters do. And don't be fooled because some of the monsters are spineless democrats.

[Morgana LaFey]

35. Aw, c'mon, Ida. Here's another petition you can sign.

:sarcasm:

My personal pet peeve: every time I look at the Greatest Page another one of our illustrious "leaders" in Washington mentions the latest outrage and has a fucking petition to sign.

I notice the past few days or even maybe couple of weeks that I'm just sorta drifting away, losing interest: I can't handle any more outrage and am tired -- sick and tired -- of BEING outraged. Calling or writing these idiots in Washington is pointless, they avowedly don't listen; the current slate of candidates is a big yawn, and I'll NEVER sign another petition online. Never.

Nothing is working and I don't believe it's our fault. The whole damn country has had it with Bush and Congress doesn't seem to know or care. The whole damn country wants him and his administration held accountable and, once again, Congress doesn't seem to know or care. Ditto re ending the war.

(I am just gobsmacked that the American people voted to END this war and what happened is that Bush escalated it and got the Democrats to go along with that. Un-freakin'-believable. Or maybe too damn believable.)

I just don't see where my attention and participation, minimal tho it is, contributes to anything but my own early death due to prolonged and unremitting stress. I'd do much better for myself to go take a walk for part of the time I usually spend on DU, and better for myself to do some of the other things I am interested in for a good bit of the rest of the time I usually spend on DU.

I say to you: follow your heart and your inner instincts. That's what I'm going to do. Maybe "letting go" is precisely what's needed now, on a cosmic level. I personally just can't think of anything I can do, or any reason to continue in the way I've been going. So I'm going to change. Life is short enough, perhaps I can carve out a little happiness somewhere among the daily atrocities.

Not that I won't be at DU -- it's a daily routine for me, and an addiction as well. But I just feel I should pull away some and let it go. Save myself, so to speak.

[IdaBriggs]

36. I understand everything you've said. Sigh. Including the DU addiction!

I remember when the personal realization hit for me that Election 2004 had been "fixed" -- despite being miserably sick with bronchitis and having to sleep sitting up lest I drown in my own snot, I *thought* that if we just got the information to the "right people" then SOMEONE would do SOMETHING to FIX IT. There was an unbelievably feverish and ridiculous amount of work over the next couple of months ... and the SOB and his cronies are STILL in power!!!

Its depressing, and part of me wonders what the heck the point WAS ... ??? WILL *ANYONE* EVER HOLD THESE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR CRIMES???

:banghead:

The babies are sleeping again. (My daughter just had a bit of a fussy time, poor baby!) My husband already has made future career choices for them -- our son is going to play football at Michigan before becoming a Rich Pro Athlete, while our daughter will become a Senator before going on to become the President. I believe he has a law career planned for her beforehand, tho...

At some level, a person starts to wonder just WHO the crazy people are -- the ones paying attention and realizing just how messed up things are, or the ones who think its all normal and business as usual!!!

[Psyop Samurai]

44. I understand & appreciate everything you've said...

...and Morgana too.

Thank you for the discussion, and let us affirm life in the best ways that we can, according to our best understanding.

:hug:

[Morgana LaFey]

47. Oh my goodness

that brings tears to my eyes. Thank you for saying that.

and let us affirm life in the best ways that we can, according to our best understanding.

Beautiful. Thank you.

O8)

[The Straight Story]

38. YOU just did

And many more like you have as well.

Voices reaching out to others, not sitting idly by watching TV all night - out on the web posting their thoughts, coming together with others of a similar mind.

We the people are changing, and that is a HUGE first step to changing things at the top.

It takes time though, it is not as fast as hitting the post button and seeing an instant result.

So don't give up - keep posting, and it will keep having an affect.

[Clark2008]

39. Congrats on your babies!

I just had a baby girl two weeks ago, myself. :hug:

[OwnedByFerrets]

41. K & R

You are not alone with your feelings.

[donsu]

45. you better find a little time to fight for the earth your babies will have to line in

nt

[Morgana LaFey]

48. You know, honestly?

Sometimes the best way to fight is to yield, or at least let go. If you can't figure out what to do, if your energy is lagging, if your spirit is sick (or just tired), if your heart isn't in it and what you've been doing and doing and doing isn't working, maybe it's time to step back, regroup, recuperate, rethink, and come back another time with a different plan.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

I'll tell you the one thing I DON'T want: Once defeated (if that's possible), I don't want the vampire known as BFEE to EVER come back to power again. That may take a little more unraveling before we get to that point.

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. There is no Superman...we can only save ourselves

Waiting for Superman is a fascist impulse, in any case...

Tell everybody waiting for Superman
That they should try to hold on best they can
He hasn't dropped them, forgot them or anything
It's just too heavy for Superman to lift
- Flaming Lips

[timtom]

49. I dunno, let's see...

Let's turn to the experts to see whom they called upon to save them:

Washington
Jefferson
Franklin
Nathan Hale

Hmmm...there's the problem. They didn't have anyone.

Except themselves.

(Please don't interpret this as being a snarky answer -- just a bit overdramatic.)