Adults and Their Noisy Noise

[Madspirit]

Inspired by the many articles and topics about noisy children I thought this would fit in just right. This is topical and relevant and refers to a recent news story that has everyone all aflutter. After all, noise! Before anyone accuses me of hyperbole or throwing in unrelated topics, hey, I learned that from people who compare using wood chippers at 3 AM to children playing in a pool in the daytime.

Anyway, these are the Adults who REALLY bug me and it is quite varied, from the mildly annoying to the criminally annoying. The whole shebang, all in one list.

Here it is. Adults who bug me:

Curmudgeonly, grumpy adults who think because they were raised a certain way it's the RIGHT way because it would be dissing Good Ol' Mom and Pop to ever question their methods.

Adults who think because they were treated with dismissive disdain or worse, it's THE way to treat children. "After all, Dad smacked me and look how good I turned out. Didn't hurt me a bit. Spare the rod, spoil the child. Children are to be seen and not heard."

Adult entitlement. "...because it bugs me, IT must be stopped because I am an adult and only MY rights count."

Adults who treat children as chattel. You do not own your children. They are not property.

Adult men spitting in public like they were raised in a frakking barn.

Adults who are loud and crude in public.

Adult men arranging themselves in public.

Adult men yelling obscenities at women who walk by them in public.

Adults having sex with children.

Adults fighting with their SO/spouse in public.

Adults who force their fundie-assed religions down my throat.

Adults who force their fundie-assed religions down their children's throats.

Adults using cell phones in public esp. in restaurants, movie theaters and automobiles. Like I want to hear these MORON'S private crap.

Adults who grocery shop with a cell phone. Ever heard of a list Moron?

Adults who speed in their cars. Speeders cause as many car fatalities as drunks do.

Adults who tailgate.

Adults who reprimand and humiliate their children in public.

Adults who reprimand and humiliate their SO/spouse in public.

Adults who beat their children.

Adults who send kids off to kill or be killed in senseless, brutal and unconscionable wars.

Adults who put profits above the health of the planet and the people on it.

Adults who don't fund programs for the homeless, the poor, the mentally ill.

The loudness of yells emanating from Adults in their houses on Super Bowl Sunday.

Adults who think it's OK to hit someone who comes up to their knees.

Adults who bully.

Adults who drown out all conversation with their loud-assed voices.

Adults who don't listen.

Adults who monopolize the conversation.

Adults who spread and teach racism, homophobia, sexism, xenophobia to their children.

Adults who love guns waaaay too much.

Adults who drink waaaay too much and pee in the closet.

Adults who drink waaaay too much and kill a carload of people.

Adults who drink waaaay too much and beat their families.

Adults who rape people.

Adults who kill people.

Adults who cut in front of children in the line at the store.

Adults who work in stores and ignore child customers.

...but what bothers me the VERY most about Adults:

While 3 million reports of child abuse are made every year in the US, experts estimate that the actual number of incidents of abuse and neglect is 3 times greater than reported.

4 children die every day as a result of child abuse and three out of four of these victims are under the age of 4.

A report of child abuse is made every 10 seconds.

Of the reported rapes of children under 12 years old, 90% of the victims knew the perpetrator.

Child abuse occurs at every socio-economic level, across ethnic and cultural lines, within all religions and at all levels of education.

36.7% of all women in prison and 14.4% of all men in prison in the US were abused as children.

An estimated 906,000 children are victims of abuse & neglect every year. The rate of victimization is 12.3 children per 1,000 children.

Children ages 0-3 are the most likely to experience abuse. They are victimized at a rate of 16.4 per 1,000

1,500 children die every year from child abuse and neglect. That is just over 4 fatalities every day.

79% of the children killed are younger than 4.

http://www.childhelp.org/resources/learning-center/statistics

Adults certainly are a pain...more than shrill and unnerving...almost a plague...on this planet.


Lee

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. "Adults who are loud and crude in public."

Hmm. So then you agree with noise ordinance restrictions, right?

[Madspirit]

6. Actually I meant in public places

If they want to be loud in their yards, before 3 AM...I don't give a shit. In fact, I have a neighbor with a loud booming voice. He's nice...but loud.
Lee

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Doesn't it basically become public...

once it's loud enough to be heard in somebody else's yard, for all intents and purposes?

[Madspirit]

9. No

It doesn't bother me. I have some noisy neighbors. I like them a lot. The man's voice is so booming you can probably hear him a block down.

I am not going to do the round and round with you Bornagin...
Lee

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. So if your neighbor stood in his backyard...

and yelled obscenities at women, you wouldn't have a problem with that?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

2. Adults who don't know how to raise their children

Yes, that's it precisely. It's not the fault of the children for how they behave, because they are children.

[Catherine Vincent]

3. "Adult men arranging themselves in public."

??

[MADem]

14. Baseball players, beware!!! NT

[rucky]

32. It's a right AND a privlidge. n/t

[Gemini Cat]

77. and sometimes necessary.

[qdemn7]

86. Sorry Madspirit, it's a man thing

You wouldn't understand.

[seabeyond]

96. a child squealy for all they are worth at 4 yrs old is a 4 yr old thing

sorry, you just wont understand

wink

also, i dont care if a man adjusts himself. either

[redqueen]

4. I have noisy adults as neighbors.

I'm not a tightassed bitch about it though. :)

[Madspirit]

8. Me too

I like them. ...just making a point about the absurd posts about little kids playing in their pool.
Lee

[redqueen]

10. Oh yeah, I get ya.

People are too testy these days.

All GRRRRR and shit over what really amounts to nothin.

[badgerpup]

75. There IS a limit though...

I've got neighbors who come home at 2:30AM...with friends...and proceed to fight and/or party in the yard until 6AM or so.
Window-rattling stereo playing loud enough you can hear the lyrics (muthafuka muthafuka) even above the BOOM BOOM BOOM is optional.
You can hear them all up and down the street.

Call the cops, you say?
Suuure...they've got a scanner, and the address of the complaining person is broadcast...One Adam-12, see the woman at 123 Frisbee street complaining....

I've got three cats I love dearly, two of whom are of a friendly, sociable and trusting nature.
I have a garden into which I've put a lot of work ...and a car. Granted, it's 12 years old, but it runs, the windshield isn't broken out, the tires don't have holes in them...and I'd like to keep it that way.

Yes, I'm concerned about retaliation. Extremely drunk people have a tendency to make...er...impusive decisions when they get pissed off or thwarted in something...and 'domestic disturbance' here means that somebody gets to spend the night in the pokey.
NOT a good way to win friends and influence people, sending your neighbors to jail...
Noise-cops-retaliation-cops-retaliation ad infinitum...some things it's better not to start, ya know?
I've decided that as long as all they are is noisy and don't start exporting destructive behavior, I can deal with it.

Still...:grr:
:rant:

[Mythsaje]

5. Cell phones in the stores don't bother me...

Heck, they don't even bother me in restaurants.

Course, I'm the guy in the corner booth listening to an audiobook on my ipod or turning the pages of a real book as I eat.

I don't rearrange myself in public, but I can definitely understand the urge. You get your parts in a bind, you REALLY want to get them out of it.

If you've got to cough it up, it's better to spit it unobtrusively as possible than swallow it.

My dad was often loud and crude in public. Annoying, embarassingly so. These days he's mellowed, but it's probably best not to remind him of it.

[enlightenment]

15. Is female spit different than male spit?

It's something I've wondered about. I've known one - maybe two - women my whole life who spit in public; as a woman myself, I know that we are certainly capable of "coughing it up" as often as men. That suggests that women swallow it rather than spit it out.

Like most people (female and male) I am rather expert at dodging the disgusting effluvia that can so suddenly appear as I walk down the sidewalk . . . it is helpful that the expectorator (I know, it's not a word) provides some warning with pre-launch sound effects. Still, I have wondered on more than one occasion if there is some fundamental difference in male spit.

Is it toxic? Does it taste so foul that it would cause the male stomach to immediately reject it? Is the male physiology designed in such a way that men are physically incapable of swallowing it? Are men too squeamish to swallow it?

I understand that it is largely a question of what is considered appropriate, and "girls don't spit" is still instilled in most of us. But seriously, why do men feel that they must spit it out? ;)

(As for the rearranging - as long as it doesn't become so prolonged as to look like self-fondling . . . and teachers really should think about what they're doing before they do it. I had a prof once who probably should have switched to a different style of underwear - he adjusted himself at least three or four times in every 90 minute class!!)

[Mythsaje]

20. I think it's social restraint, spitting I mean.

"Ladies don't spit."

Men, well, we've never had that drummed into our heads. My dad would spit just about anywhere, anytime. When I can't avoid it, I try to do it as subtley as possible.

And, yeah, you shouldn't swallow it. It's not healthy. There's a reason your body keeps bringing it back up.

[Clark2008]

65. That's what bathrooms and tissues are for.

Yes, women cough up loogies, but we generally wait until we're in a stall or fish a tissue out of purses.

[Mythsaje]

81. We don't have purses...

And, frankly, watching someone spit something into a kleenex is just as, if not more, disgusting than shooting it into the gutter or behind a tree.

[Horse with no Name]

11. I'm pretty tolerant to things

A lot of those things bug me...but live and let live...what the hell?
You are a good one Madspirit.
I don't believe in silencing the spirit and drive of any child--regardless of how they express it.
But that's just me.
If a swimming pool in the afternoon 2-3 days a week isn't a place to expend pent up energy...then no such place exists.:(
How very sad for the children of today.

edited to add K&R

[H2O Man]

18. Quiet people

are kind of hard to take, though. My neighbor, who is in his 90s, is very quiet. What is his problem? I may have to call the police.

[Horse with no Name]

19. Or you may need to check his pulse

People THAT quiet have been known to be dead for many years...

[acmavm]

13. I'm glad you posted this. There are so many people here who think that

the planet is here simply for their enjoyment only, and screw everyone else. And so many times its the same people bitching. About everything. Of course, it's never about them or theirs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Isn't that what we're talking about basically?

Parents who think the planet is here simply for their kids enjoyment only and screw the neighbors if they're woken up?

[acmavm]

36. No, we're talking about people who think they have the right to suck the

life out of everything and everybody just because they think they're entitled, 'special'.

[mondo joe]

37. Like people who let their kids do anything without regard for others because they

(or their "joy") is "special"?

[acmavm]

41. No, I mean the buffoons that think kids should spring from the womb

fully trained, silent, and incurious of everything that goes on around them.

Some people like to bitch no matter what. What makes these 'sensitive' souls so entitled? Maybe they should move into an adult community. Or a desert island.

[mondo joe]

45. Hm, who ever suggested that? Got a link?

Or are you just making shit u? (Answer: yes)

[Pithlet]

54. People suggest it here and other places on the web all the time.

Go into just about any thread about children, and you'll see the typical "Parents can't control their kids" rant. When someone says that, that's essentially what they're saying. Kids should be mini adults. If a kid isn't being a quiet, composed little adult, they need to be controlled, or their parents are abdicating their responsibility. Of course there are crappy parents. Way too many. But even the best parents have kids who act like kids, and they're lying if they say they don't. And kids are sometimes noisy. Kids are sometimes defiant, even the best behaved ones. And the times they are, you get stared at and judged as a parent who "can't control their kid".

I'm with the OP generally speaking, though not everything in her list bugs me. But, when I am irritated or annoyed in public, it's almost always by another adult.

[mondo joe]

55. Bullshit. If kids were born little adults parenting would be unnecessary.

What's being called for is parenting.

I give kids plenty of leeway. That doesn't mean they should never be asked to be considerate of others, as has been said here.

Do you think there's ANY amount of noise a kid can make that's unacceptable?

[Pithlet]

57. Missed my point completely.

Of course parenting is called for. I am all too familiar with it as a parent of an autistic child and a neurotypical child both under the age of seven. My skills at quieting screams could be matched against anyone any day. They are well honed. My point is that noisy children aren't evidence of lack of parenting. It's evidence of children. Even the best parenting isn't going to quiet them completely, and unless they are silenced completely, there will always be those who complain about noisy children. Notice I haven't commented directly on any specific case. I am speaking in generalities, and I was responding to a post of yours where you appeared to be asking for evidence that people expect children to spring from the womb fully formed in a manner that suggested you didn't think anyone ever posted that. I contend that people suggest it all the time. I'm not arguing about that case of the swimming pool. As I wasn't present, I have no solid opinion either way on that particular matter.

[mondo joe]

58. Of course noisy children aren't evidence of lack of parenting. Unrelenting noisy

children are, particularly when others are subjected to them.

The whole swimming pool thing has brought out one of the dumbest bifurcations I've ever seen: Completely unrestrained noise vs Joyless childhood.

Since you have quited screams, I suspect we are not far apart at all on the core of the matter.

I like the sounds of kids (I already miss the absence of it in a few years!) but I think the idea that kids should be free to make whatever noise they want and it should never be restrained is absolute BS.

[Pithlet]

64. But I don't think they're making the argument that unrestrained noise is okay.

At least that's not how I read it. I read it as kids are going to scream, which is absolutely true. For one thing, I think taking an absolute position on this particular case either way kind of silly, since anyone who didn't observe the behavior in question really won't have a clue what went on. There is no way to tell exactly how noisy those children were, because having lived in multiple neighborhoods and having had hundreds of neighbors over time, I've learned that there is a spectrum. There are the kinds of people who realize that you're going to hear your neighbors and have learned to cope and rarely complain. On the other end are the nutters who expect absolute silence even during the day and will complain about every little noise (I had an insane downstairs neighbor once who called security in the middle of the day every time I vacuumed, for example. If I'd had kids then, I might have ended up in a story just like the swimming pool one because I could see her making such a case about them). And then there are the normal people somewhere in the middle, who'll only really complain if it's actually a real nuisance. Some neighborhoods as a whole are more tolerant than others. Without knowing the kids, the neighbors or the dynamics of the whole neighborhood, I can't say if those kids were actually being a nuisance or not. Although I'll say that I have a hard time understanding making a case about kids being noisy in a pool during the day and taking it to a level where jail time is threatened. But, as I say, I wasn't there, so who knows?

In my experience, the really bad noises have always been three things: music, dogs and lawn equipment. And those were only ever a problem for me at night. Generally speaking I can't see complaining about noises during the day. And I can't remember ever hearing unrelenting screaming from anyone of any age, ever. I can't imagine it, personally. Kids almost always wear themselves out in the space of an hour or two. Personally, I'm firmly in the if it isn't after hours you need to learn some coping skills camp. People are going to mow their lawns. Dogs are going to bark. Music is going to play. Kids are going to scream. After 9 pm, I switch into the absolute silence camp. Bottom line, if the screaming goes on for longer than an hour, then it's probably the neighborly thing to do to reign your kids in. And if you're the neighbor, learn some coping skills.

[mondo joe]

66. But there have been posts in these threads that have said EXACTLY that - that kids

should be able to express themselves in ANY WAY they way - that they have the right to make whatever noise they want.

And I think the opposing posts have by and large said: sure, kids will make noise, but if they are screaming they should be stopped sooner or later.

I really don't think you and I are far apart on this at all - just coming from two different sides to get to roughly the same place.

:-)

[Pithlet]

69. Given the context of the posts and attitudes they were responding to

they made more sense. Most of those responses were to the kind of people who think children should be mini-adults, and the kind of people who think they're entitled to absolute silence at all hours of the day wherever they happen to be. I don't think the point was that children should be given no restriction, but that children by their very nature are noisy, and there isn't much that can be done about that short of defeating their very nature. It's part of life. There are people who poo poo that, and think that parents should be able to silence their children so that no one else need see or hear them. The response that children are expressing themselves and that that shouldn't be quashed completely is exactly correct. Taken out of context or ignoring the context, the statements seem like ridiculous pandering, and if there were no such thing as adults who have little to no tolerance for children, they would seem utterly ridiculous.

You know, I always knew that there were people who don't like children, but until I started frequenting message boards, I had no idea the level of intolerance. It's not just kids, of course, though they're one of the big issues that set people off. Cell phones. What other people drive. What other people wear and how they look. How other people talk. You name it, there are groups of people driven completely nuts by it. A story gets posted about an extreme example, and it brings them out in droves. I wonder how some people here make it through day to day life. I chalk it up poor coping skills, like I said in an above post. Or maybe ranting about it on a message board is their method of coping. If I took it all to heart, I don't know if I'd ever walk out the door again for fear of annoying or irritating another human being.

[mondo joe]

71. Ah, but you've modified what was said.

It wasn't "children are expressing themselves and that that shouldn't be quashed completely".

It was more like "children are expressing themselves and that that shouldn't be mitigated in any way".

But, again, I agree about the weird lack of coping skills. :-)

[Pithlet]

76. I'm interpreting the meaning of the argument, given the context.

I've read the same posts you have, and I do not get from them "No one should should ever take action against their child, ever". I read the general arguments, including the posts you quote, as "No one should suppress their child's expression, ever" Sorry, but I agree with that. That doesn't have to mean no action is ever taken, or that you should never direct your child to a quieter form of expression. But I do agree that sometimes children need their moments of absolute abandon. I'm pretty sure the people making the statements you take exception to realize that most children do not scream for hours non stop at full capacity. And of course it should never occur during sleeping hours. It's possible the kids in the article were on the extreme end, but I think what's more likely is those kids in the article would spend an hour or two here and there in the pool, and scream as kids swimming in pools are likely to do, sometimes at the top of their lungs, but they would eventually tire out, get hungry and go inside. A few nutty neighbors took extreme measures and things escalated. However it was, it seems that things worked themselves out by the charges being dropped. Of course the article brought out the children should be seen and not heard crowd, which resulted in the comments you took exception to.

I don't think anyone is entitled to make as much noise as they like regardless of age, but they are entitled to live a life. Including children. They aren't entitled to do whatever they want, but they are entitled to being noisy in their backyard pool now and then, and *that* is the point being made by the quotes you take exception to. Given life experience I think that while it's possible it was very annoying, I just don't think that children playing in a pool are likely to create such a nuisance as to require such extreme action as jail and heavy fines. I also don't think anyone is entitled to absolute silence during the day. Irritating noises are an unavoidable part of living in a neighborhood. It's why some people buy acres out in the middle of nowhere. It's why people take vacations to cabins out in the middle of nowhere. It's why they go to spas. It's why headphones and ear plugs were invented.

[qdemn7]

87. It's a little thing called manners.....

And those seem to be in short supply these days. Both on the part of adults and children. Especially in public places. Part of children growing up into fully functional adults is learning appropriate behavior. But, I guess there are so many adults who have no concept of manners, even in their own homes, they have no concept of teaching their children any manners. Or else they think the whole idea of manners is "soul crushing". Furthermore, there seems to be a very large problem of people who think they have a right to inflict their children on the entire world in all places at all times. Adults have rights, too. In fact it could be said we have more, because we are adults. There are times and places for adults only, and many businesses like movie theaters and nice restaurants have finally begun to realize this and implement policies to enforce "adults only" times after 900pm.

[Pithlet]

92. Is it good manners to insist that everyone else stop living their lives during the day

and insist on peace and quiet? For example, would it be good manners on my part to insist that, during the day, the next door neighbor never let her miniature pinscher out for some fresh air and exercise? After all, the thing yaps constantly, loudly. It would certainly be nice if I never had to deal with that noise. Would it be reasonable for me to insist she is exhibiting bad manners and being inconsiderate? I bet if I looked hard enough I could find someone who agrees with that, but I don't. My mom has harley enthusiast living across the street from her. I hear them every time I visit. I told her I hoped they didn't do that late at night and she said they rarely do. It doesn't bother her, especially since she rides a bike herself. Personally, that would drive me crazy, but even then I don't know if I'd call them inconsiderate and rude. There is an obligation to not be self centered. That goes both ways. I think it's selfish and unreasonable to insist on peace and quiet during the day when you live in a neighborhood, personally, and I say this as someone who relishes peace and quiet. Noises are part of life.

There may be people who are annoyed when my kids go out to play, because while they don't scream at the top of their lungs, sometimes they aren't exactly quiet, either. They also make the min pin next door bark more. But, I don't think we're being rude and inconsiderate. We are living our lives, just like the dog owners, bike riders, and other human beings we all tend to share our neighborhoods with. This isn't taking your kids to a 9 o'clock movie. This isn't taking them to a 4 star restaurant. It's letting them play in their own frigging back yard. During the day. It is people living their day to day lives. Because something bothers you doesn't automatically follow that the person doing the bothering is being rude and inconsiderate. It would be almost impossible for almost anyone to live out their lives and not annoy at least someone. I think everyone should do their best not to. If I thought they were being too loud, I'd tell them to tone it down. But I won't insist that they be quiet during the day, and I don't think I or anyone else is obligated to.

[Madspirit]

59. Beep! Untrue! Beep! Untrue

**Mondo Joe..That doesn't mean they should never be asked to be considerate of others, as has been said here.
Do you think there's ANY amount of noise a kid can make that's unacceptable?**


NO ONE EVER said anything like this. No one. Not ever. Of course kids should be considerate of others when it's the OTHER'S time. ...and OTHERS should be considerate of kids when it's THEIR time and their time is outside, in a pool, in the daytime, in the summmer.

Lee

[mondo joe]

61. To the contrary - quite true, and here are the quotes.

Post 11, this thread: "I don't believe in silencing the spirit and drive of any child--regardless of how they express it."

From the original thread: "if these kids are playing during the day, they have every right to make as much noise as they want."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1147916&mesg_id=1148283

Summertime, incidentally, is not the exclusive province of children.

[Mythsaje]

85. Given the range of what's physically POSSIBLE

with their own bodies and voices, sure.

There's a certain mindset that insists they be allowed to dictate everyone else's behavior that just rubs me the wrong way. This is a great example of it. "I don't like it, therefore it's bad, bad, bad!"

These are kids playing in a pool, on hot summer days. Not stripping cars or holding up mini-marts. Or throwing rocks at the neighborhood dogs.

Playing.

Who are you, Oscar the Grouch?

[mondo joe]

93. Who are you, Dick Cheney?

As I've said repeatedly, I have no problem with playing. Just about everyone who has posted has said the same.

Even good happy play can sometimes include excessive screaming, which is easily remedied, and which does not lessen joy or play at all.

[Gemini Cat]

79. No, that's what parenting is for.

Children need to be taught what is and what is not appropriate.

[JANdad]

47. Yes....A childs JOY is special....

because it is fleeting...

[mondo joe]

48. And why do you believe a child's joy is inconsistent with having

a modicum of consideration of others?

[JANdad]

49. Think back for a moment if

you will...

Did you ever yell and scream as a child?

I know I did...

The threads about this particular issue today are so overblown in the comments made; that I am beginning to wonder what being liberal means around here. Wasn't it HRC that said "It takes a village"?

Let them be kids and play for god's sakes...in a few years they will be cannon fodder anyway...I guess they are getting their vocal cords ready to be heard over the sounds of war...

[mondo joe]

50. Well if you want to be melodramatic about it, sure.

I have 2 kids and a bunch of other neighborhood kids are always running through the house laughing.

Sometimes they laugh so much they pee their pants.

And if they were screaming out in the yard I'd ask them to turn it down.

In fact I HAVE asked them to turn it down. Their joy appears undiminished.

"It takes a village" doesn't mean kids should do anything they want. If anything, it means they have a lot to learn from a lot of people. One of those things is consideration for others.

It doesn't ruin anyone's childhood to be considerate.

[Madspirit]

60. It ABSOLUTELY takes a village.

Thank-you!

Lee

[mondo joe]

62. My kids are being raised by what is virtually a village.

My kids have 4 parents - my partner and myself, and their moms. We have close relationships with other families in the neighborhood, and the whole gang of kids might be in any of our houses at any time.

And if they were crazy noisy during the summer (or any other time), ANY of the parents would ask them to turn down the volume.

IT TAKES A VILLAGE doesn't mean kids don't have guidance or boundaries. To the contrary, it means they have plenty of both.

[mondo joe]

22. You're describing the people who think their kids should be able to scream as they like,

right?

[acmavm]

38. Kids scream, dogs crap in your yard, people mow their lawns at

7:00 a.m., neighbors play loud music (of the type that you hate), whatever.

Life happens. Only certain people think that they are the only ones who are entitled to have a life. Everyone else just has to shut up and get with their program.

[mondo joe]

40. Failed to address the issue.

Life happens. Most people tolerate it well enough.

Sometimes people go overboard and do whatever they want, without regard for living with other people.

[acmavm]

42. Like you and this absolute fanatical obscession with this thread?

edit: And the original one too.

[mondo joe]

44. Posting in a thread = fanatical obsession?

Why are you so obsessed?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. "Adult men arranging themselves in public."

Sorry, but when ya gotta shift, ya gotta shift.

[Sapere aude]

21. Did you ever see Pete Rose come to the plate?

[Madspirit]

24. I was think more of ...like the Pete Rose example OMC.. : > ...n/t

[BlooInBloo]

106. And you *never* see girls adjusting, well, "the girls".

[JANdad]

23. Right there with ya!

K&R

[Jed Dilligan]

25. Adults, like kids, can be very annoying

I'm okay with a normal level of noise, a party at night, a power saw in the daytime, kids playing. But I've also lived in aggressively noisy environments where my health deteriorated because I was not allowed to sleep. I'm all for doing something about the "bumping" cars, they are ruining quality of life in inner-city neighborhoods. Just because people are poor and nonwhite doesn't mean they don't have the right to sleep at night. Same with the hyphy kids and their screaming competitions, jumping on parked cars, etc. I don't see how allowing this is more valuable than the health of a much larger number of people.

[Madspirit]

27. Hi Jed

I am ONLY referring to little kids, playing in their pool, in the daytime, in the summertime.

I just wish the people here who are so concerned about an adult's rights to be grumpy asshats, were nearly as concerned about the number of kids who are abused and hungry and neglected. Funny how this doesn't seem to concern them much at all.
Lee

[Jed Dilligan]

46. It's true, noise pollution really doesn't compare to child abuse.

Then again, I strongly suspect that a kid who shrieks incessantly at unacceptable levels has been abused or neglected. That's why I think social workers, not police, should have been brought in on the case in question.

[bettyellen]

98. we are playing Rovian talking points now right? abuse and neglect have nothing to do with this-

why do you hate AMERICA? is just as valid as your post.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

26. That's all you have?

:evilgrin:

[Madspirit]

28. : >

Sadly, I'm 53 and I still don't really trust anyone over 30.
Lee

[Mythsaje]

82. I'm 40 and still a kid at heart.

Kids need to be given room to be kids. Otherwise, what's the point.

Now if they're chasing down the neighborhood pets and cutting off their tails for shits and giggles, or throwing rocks at the neighbors' cars, or painting vicious slogans on fences or garage walls, THAT'S a problem.

Kids making noise in a swimming pool during the day? Oh, yes, certainly an act of reckless anti-social behavior.

I'd rather have these kids as my neighbors than some of the people who've posted about it, that's for sure.

[BlackVelvet04]

29. I don't want to listen to anyone's

excessive noise....kids, adults, dogs, whatever. Not only is it irritating it can have a detrimental effect on a person's health.

Children are naturally selfish, yet we teach them to share. A child doesn't need to scream to have fun, just like a dog doesn't need to bark non-stop to be a happy dog.

I don't mind happy play sounds. I don't mind a dog barking when it feels threatened, but if I had to listen to screaming and shrieking for hours I would call the police. If I have to listen to a dog barking incessantly I call animal control. And if that offends the people involved....GOOD.

[Madspirit]

33. I suggest

Psychology 101, Child Development classes, a Child development website...something because actually, yes, screaming is quite normal in young children. It's PART of being a child and part of NORMAL child development. Check it out.

Maybe YOU need some nerve pills. Because something offends YOU, doesn't mean it's a wrong thing.
Lee

[mondo joe]

43. If you're going to suggest child development classes, you might also consider that

part of child rearing is teaching kids to be considerate of others.

I wish someone had taught this asshole to be considerate:

[Madspirit]

53. Kids...Summertime...Pool

I suggest the adults be sensitive to THAT.
Lee

[mondo joe]

56. Nothing about that combination can't include some respect for other people.

When my kids get too loud I ask them to turn it down. Typically they laugh and do just that.

It never prevented them from having fun.

[Madspirit]

67. MJ

We are never ever going to agree on this. Not Ever. Psychology is my field. I know what behavior is normal and healthy for children. They need extreme play. Period. ...and as HWNN said, if a swimming pool in the summertime, during the day, isn't a time they can let it all out, it's a sad sad world.

Adults have plenty of their precious quiet time. Adults control children's lives. Adults control the world. The kids can have this time. They need it. If this really bugs the adults, it's THEIR time to compromise. They need to turn on a fan or the tv or radio or get some ear plugs or put egg cartons on their walls. It's THEIR problem. It should not be the kid's problem.

I know kids; the most hyperactive of kids, in the summer, in Louisiana, in the heat, during the day, playing hard...they get tired and I don't believe for one minute these kids solidly screamed for hours, non-stop. It is physiologically impossible. The people who complained need to move to a gated community for noiseless old tired people. They can play dominoes and toss horseshoes. I think they are just people who want to control the entire world around them and it bugs them that the world includes children.

No noise at all means you're dead.

This said, I suffer from bipolar disorder, PTSD and depression. I have incredibly increased startle responses. My nerves are usually on edge and I'm hyper vigilant all the time. That is what PTSD is like. Those little girls might bother me too. I, however, would assume...IT'S MY PROBLEM.

That said, I just want you to know, you are one of my very favorite posters here. I think you are pretty cool. I respect you. ...and I think you are wrong on this. So I am not going to engage on this, with you, any more.

Peace With You Mondo Joe...
Lee

[mondo joe]

72. Well...

I've only spent the last 12 years raising kids, so I don't know if that compares to your authority on the matter.

But I do know that no one has called for "no noise at all".

I don't know why anyone resorts to these bogus claims.

[Madspirit]

74. Last Response

I have no authority on the matter. I just know what I've read in the journals and books, learned in classes at the University of Texas with my Psychology major, learned from running a day care center for a couple of years, learned from volunteering with children, learned from working with abused children, learned from living in communes and collectives with children, learned from keeping friend's kids, learned from being a child myself but mostly from what I've read in my psychology classes and in life and from the journals and books I still read and from all the psychiatrist and psychologist friends I have.

I am not putting you down Joe but procreating doesn't make someone know anything. It's nice when they do and from what I've read from your posts, you're a good and loving dad. ...but just having sex, bearing a child and then having the child...well, the abuse statistics are above. Most child abusers are the parents of the children. Biology does not make someone an expert or even slightly knowledgeable. It's nice when parents know stuff and care enough to learn stuff but that doesn't just happen because someone birthed a baby.
Lee

[bettyellen]

101. you just comapared him to a child abuser? that's disgusting as well as pointless.

and you've not been able to make an arguement with out exagerating that people are demanding total silence.
All the CV you're spewing doesn't hide the fact that as Joe said, you have to make shit up to have a good arguement.
Gosh, what lovely things kids can learn from you!

[BlackVelvet04]

80. Exactly......

children do not need to scream for hours on end to have a good time and that's the part people are talking about....hours.

[Mythsaje]

83. Kids can't scream for hours.

No one can.

It may SEEM like hours, but let's be serious about it. As it's been said, it's a physiological impossibility.

[mondo joe]

94. But they can scream plenty of times over the course of hours. Especially if they

have parents who don't believe in consideration of others.

[BlackVelvet04]

95. Sure they can.....

with an extra breath here and there. I've heard them do it. I've heard infants scream for many hours.

[qdemn7]

88. "The people who complained need to move "

"to a gated community for noiseless old tired people."

Right and when they do, they called fascist or racists, or WTF-ever-ists, for possibly not wanting to put with other people's asshat behaviour.

[BlackVelvet04]

78. I didn't really ask for your snarky suggestions......

anyone screaming and screeching in a residential neighborhood for hours on end is a public nuisance.

I've had nieces and nephews live with me and they were never allowed by their mother to stand outside and scream. So maybe it's just normal to those of you who aren't capable of reasonable discipline.

My nerves are fine except for the one you are getting on.

[Mythsaje]

84. Yes, yes, it's an act of sonic sabotage...

Tiny terrorists in swimming suits.

We get it.

[smirkymonkey]

105. You seem to think that it's all out mad screaming or complete

silence. How about a comprimise? How about letting kids be kids, while the parents take into consideration that other people have a right to a resonable amount of peace and queit - particularly in tightly packed spaces.

You obviously don't live in an apartment building in New York City, because I guarantee that if someones kids screamed at the top of their lungs for more than 15 minutes straight, a majority of the tenants would call 311 (NY's noise pollution/city issues hotline) and report the parents. When people live on top of one another, they don't really have a lot of tolerance for unnecessary noise and they don't really give a damn if someone else is offended by it. Of course, that's why a lot of people would never live in New York City in the first place.

[seabeyond]

99. bah hah... i dont want to hear anyone elses noise: Children are naturally selfish

you are funny

[WinkyDink]

30. Still doesn't excuse parents who allow their children to SCREAM and SHRIEK for hours.

For some reason, "crying 'Wolf!'" comes to mind....

[Madspirit]

35. Kids

That's what kids do in a swimming pool and at play. It didn't bother all the neighbors and there is some reason they dropped the charges.
Lee

[Matariki]

31. "Adults who drink waaaay too much and pee in the closet."

:rofl:

[Madspirit]

34. Glad someone noticed that

I actually have a friend who did that once. So embarrassing. He is sober now...<g>

Lee

[flvegan]

39. If we could make selfishness obsolete

your list wouldn't exist.

It's not about "adults" but people of age that act a certain way.

[slampoet]

51. OH GROW UP!

[Madspirit]

52. Very Grown-up Post..*snort*...n/t

[Clark2008]

63. I could hug you, Lee!

:hug:

[Madspirit]

68. Back At You

:hug:

Lee

[Clark2008]

70. I have to say that adults annoy me way worse than any child.

And, I'm home most of the summer recovering from a C-Section and spend all my days with the two tots you see below. They can BE annoying, but I'm having a much better time with their company all day long than I would be with a bunch of adults at work. :)

[qdemn7]

89. Even though it's a small pic

Your kids are terribly cute, especially your baby girl. :toast: You are a very fortunate woman. Congratulations. :hi:

[Clark2008]

91. Yes I am and thank you.

I was just commenting the other day on how lucky I was to have such cute (and smart - my boy makes straight As and reads at a much higher level than his age) kids. :loveya:

[Madspirit]

97. You have THE cutest little kids!! n/t

[ellisonz]

73. Great Post Lee!

:applause:

[hlthe2b]

90. Ya got a point there, kiddo!

LOL

[fizzgig]

100. how is talking on a cell phone different than talking to someone in person?

there are conversations i hear in restaurants and other public places that i don't necessarily want to hear either. for me, the problem is the volume at which the conversation is held, not if it's on a cell phone or in person.

maybe i don't want to hear what you're talking about at the next table over.

[Madspirit]

102. I kind of think it's pathetic

People can't be with themselves for two minutes. They need someone on the other end of a device saying their name so they will know they really exist.

...and it's usually the noise level. People who sit by themselves at restaurant tables speaking on cell phones usually talk louder than anyone around them.
Lee

[fizzgig]

104. so you're pathetic too when you eat out with people?

can't you be with yourself for two minutes? apparently you need someone on the other side of the table saying your name to know you exist.

you're confusing the issue. my issue is people who talk too loudly, regardless of whether they're on the phone or with another person. the people who talk loudly on cell phones are the people who talk loudly when they're sitting across the table from someone else.

cell phone or no cell phone, a loud talker is a loud talker

[Manifestor_of_Light]

103. Adults who drive a giant SUV while talking on a cell phone.