Are the "I'm depressed and have lost hope" threads the new "concern" posts?

[bigtree]

just sayin . . .

[acmavm]

1. And what posts are you reading? I haven't seen any like that.

edit: I'm wondering, is that how you interpret the posts of people who are sick and tired of the spineless dems we elected in November and their eternal spin on why they can't do anything to change the horrific state our country is in right now?

[bigtree]

2. My first thought is that I wouldn't follow them into ANY fight

much less a difficult political battle which requires them to stay resolute in the face of a withering, dedicated opposition.

[acmavm]

4. Are you saying you'd follow the Washington Quislings into battle?

If so, make out your will and kiss your ass good bye.

[bigtree]

8. I will never abandon our party. It remains the ONLY effective vehicle

which has ANY chance of confronting the opposition. We lose that elevated platform, we lose our majority, and ALL of our concerns go down the tube.

[acmavm]

9. Okay, whatever.

[bigtree]

10. sorry you couldn't discourage me from my support

[acmavm]

11. I wasn't trying. Not into hopeless cases or causes.

[bigtree]

14. sure, just hitch your wagon to one of those splinter efforts, some generic alternative

which promises to achieve enough support to govern one day . . . sometime in the distant future. Meanwhile, our party is working to oppose Bush; maybe not at the pace you want, or in the direction you want, but confronting him nonetheless.

On one side, you have entities like the Greens or the Libs railing from the outside, for years and years with no measurable success in getting anywhere near a coalition to govern, much less achieve a majority. On the other, you have our party, made up of folks from different political points of view who are working together to advance our concerns inside of the system from the elevated platform that their unity provides.

I'm going with those who are in a realistic position to confront the administration and I won't be dismayed or out off of that effort just because we face a little, predictable opposition or just because I didn't immediately get my way.

[Forkboy]

17. WOW

Considering that your job seems to be to defend the Do-little Dems it's damned funny to see you talking about following anybody into a fight.You're "following" people who constantly manage to get lost on the way to any fight there is.To have you insinuate someone isn't brave or willing to fight is like being scolded by the Cowardly Lion Election Committee.

[bigtree]

18. My Dems are the ONLY ones confronting Bush at a level where it could make a difference

God forbid I express support for them on a site called "DEMOCRATIC Underground"

The party has never been perfect, and I've never gotten everything I've wanted out of them, but they remain the ONLY vehicle with any chance in hell of providing the opposition I seek. I intend to keep pressing for the things I want from them, while preserving that elevated platform.

[Forkboy]

20. This thread isn't about support

There's a lot of good,honest people out there that are truly unhappy.You want to insinuate that these people are cowards who are not willing to fight and it's bullshit.Many of them have fought as hard,or even harder,than anything you've done to see things change,both from within and without the party.They've given money,time and passion to a party that is as unresponsive as a sloth that's really shagged out from a long day's climb.

[bigtree]

23. so what. been there done that. you are the one who raised the issue about support

this thread is a query into the spate of 'depressed' threads, wondering if there is some movement here to exploit frustration to the degree that it discourages folks from advantaging themselves of the elevated platform that our party provides.

[WillyT]

29. Hey You... Up In Your Tree House...

Your "elevated platform" as it were...

Some of us actually ARE CONCERNED. When more and more of our friends and allies are writing stuff like this:

People are Disgusted with Them and Congress Doesn't Have a Clue!

<snip>

For the most part, American doesn’t trust Congress to do the right thing anymore. The approval rate for Congress is at the lowest point since the poll was started. Meanwhile, Congress goes about its daily job oblivious to how the American people feel about them. I like to say that they are oblivious but the truth is Congress just doesn’t care. They believe that the two party system that we have created will sustain them and the Democrats believe that they only have to show a modicum of believability over the Republicans, and their Presidential and Congressional aspirations will be met. The truth is that they just don’t understand!

The American people are almost completely fed up! I don’t hear a kind word from anyone about the government. The only thing that the Democrats have achieved from winning the 2006 Congressional races and the Congressional majority is that Democrats are now hated as much as the Republicans are. Nice going Pelosi. You and Reid have finally made it to the big time.

What will be the result of all of this anger directed towards Congress? You only have to look towards the history books to find out. History has a funny way of repeating itself. Eventually, you are going to see a hard shift to candidates that stay on the fringes of party politics. Sooner or later another political party will emerge, and one or both of the parties now holding center stage will cease to exist. Personally, I believe they will merge. There isn’t too much difference between them now, and that isn’t just my opinion. All I hope for is that the usual change from the two major parties that we have now doesn’t happen as slowly as it did during the past.

These politicians that occupy Congress really don’t have a clue that they are pretty well despised. In fact Congressional approval ratings are 27%, the lowest in a decade. So something has got to give. I predict that unless something is done about this war, Immigration, The Minimum Wage, and the curtailment of Habeas Corpus and other American rights, approval rating will get lower. Still, Congress doesn’t have a clue. This might be a good time to run for office.

<snip>

Link: http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_timothy__070622_people_are_disgusted.htm

The thing I'm most concerned with is that the Democrats think they can just hang on until 2008, get a bigger majority, and a Democratic President and all will be fine.

If they don't figure this out pretty soon, their assumption of bigger majorities, and the Presidency, in 2008 could lead to one hell of a negative surprise!

:shrug:

Oh... and about the author of the above piece...

"Former Chairman of the Liberal Party of America, Tim is a retired Army Sergeant. He currently lives in South Carolina. A regular contributor to OpEdNews, he is the author of Kimchee Kronicles and is currently at work on a new novel."

This is a LIBERAL living in SOUTH CAROLINA, and a former Army Sergeant. We want guys like this on our side!

:shrug:

[bigtree]

33. we share the same concerns, from different perspectives, perhaps

but, I think we should guard ourselves from becoming withdrawn from the process because of setbacks, frustration, etc. And, I believe we must preserve our party and majority if we expect to get anywhere close to confronting the republicans and the administration or advancing any of the goals we expect from the political system we are operating under today as we face these immediate challenges.

[WillyT]

36. I Agree...

But I wanna be helping kick rePuke ass, not having to give OUR newly minted majorities a swift kick in their pants.

Maybe it's just the nausea from this roller-coaster ride that's gettin to me.

:shrug:

:hi:

[windy252]

3. I guess sometimes

but I've had posts like that before and those are generally when I need some sort of encouragement to keep going. I will say, that my patience is really being tested here, though.

[bigtree]

6. I would hope that you would stay resolute in the face of it all

and realize that we've always had to fight for the things we want from Congress, sometimes with the opposition, sometimes with our own party . . . but, one thing is certain, if we quit or falter, we surely will lose; the only way to succeed is to stay engaged and focused.

As my old friend, Guy Washington used to say, "Good always leaves, but bad comes to stay."

[windy252]

40. I know what you mean

but it's amazing how many words have been ruined by the conservative movement. Usually, nowadays, when I hear "resolute," I think a stubborn refusal to acknowledge reality. But it does get frustrating when it feels like your own party is actively trying to suppress your voice.

[MedleyMisty]

5. So you think no one could legitimately feel that way?

[bigtree]

7. of course there are

but you can't help but wonder if there are some who are deliberately trying to spark a wave of apathy and discouragement to weaken our resolve.

[blues90]

13. I don't feel that's the case

I feel there are many true liberals out there who are losing hope since no matter what we try to do the killing machine just keeps going .

[bigtree]

15. they need to pull themselves together and continue to press their concerns

with as much vigor they can manage

[blues90]

19. I'm guilty

I look at the entire picture and all the issues as all being related and this is what brings me down and makes it all seem hopeless and unbearable .

I wish I could focus on one issue at a time and think through it , I guess I come at things from more of the emotional side .

It is all related , all these issues and horrors and it seems to big for what we have as a government to deal with and they won't listen to the people . so what are we fighting here and who are the enemies .

[bigtree]

21. I've been through some pretty depressing periods

both in the majority and without . . . Reagan ducking Iran-Contra and ending up with his name on my airport comes to mind.

I have no doubt who the real opposition is. I know I can't get to anywhere close to confronting them without an elevated political platform. I know I have to stay focused on that opposition and not be dissuaded or allow myself to be deprived of that elevation. I have no use at all in any of that for apathy.

[bettyellen]

34. we stilll press our concerns- but the wallet is opened only for those who show me some spine

unfortunately, it's been saving me lots of money lately. and it may free up a lot of time in fall 08, not bothering to volunteer, as is my habit.

[bigtree]

37. it's a good idea to act locally to elect the legislators you want to influence the system

and, there are other means of support which don't affect your wallet.

[bettyellen]

38. i've done tons of volunteering every single presidential election, but it looks like i'm not going

to bother. my feeling is, they don't want to end the war or imeach bush because people dislike for both those things will motivate a big anti bush turnout. the political caluclus absolutely repulses me. no Bush enabler should be counting on my vote or any means of support from me.

[bigtree]

39. right, but that shouldn't stop you from looking for and supporting challengers

who you would intend to make a difference in the system. There's no value in abandoning our political system to the opposition. I hope that you find a way to advance your concerns.

[AndyTiedye]

22. Don't See Any Apathy Here At All

Most posts express either wild optimism about next year's election or utter discouragement.
I don't see much apathy at all.

I am somewhere in the middle. I am wildly optimistic IF Al Gore gets into the race and utterly discouraged otherwise.

GORE 2008

[bigtree]

24. I like Gore

I'll bet he's resolute . . .

[DavidDvorkin]

12. I've posted fairly often that I'm depressed and have lost hope

That's because I'm depressed and have lost hope.

There's nothing sinister or underhanded about it.

[bigtree]

16. glad to hear that it's not sinister

here's hoping that you find a second wind

[Tansy_Gold]

25. I don't post much about being depressed and losing/having lost hope

but I do feel that way more frequently than I like or care to admit. But I don't think it's entirely a response to the political climate. In my case, at least, there are many personal difficulties and obstacles that contribute. When the political scene seems to contribute little in the way of encouragement, then my own problems seem to multiply accordingly.

The political is always the personal, and to a certain extent vice versa. Many of us on DU have health problems that affect our attitude, especially if the cost of health care/insurance is a factor. If the health problem is mental health, then the situation is usually even worse than with physical health. And as personal and individual as these problems may be, they are certainly reflected in the political mirror.

I for one was ecstatic when the Dems took control of Congress last fall, and I had high hopes for a real change in the direction of the country. And I'm not saying that Pelosi and Reid have done nothing; they've done a lot. But they haven't been able to address the two most urgent, the two most important issues: the war and the white house.

My boyfriend, who thinks all politicians are corrupt, goes about his merry way without a thought for the bigger issues. He has reached a point where he no longer cares. . . . about anything. He doesn't care about the war, he doesn't care about abortion rights, he doesn't care about the economy, he doesn't care about climate change, he doesn't care about anything. He also has no hope that anything will ever get better.

On the other hand, those of us who get depressed or get excited or get defensive at least have some emotional involvement in the state of things. We're depressed because either we want to have hope and can't find any, or we had hope and lost it. We're depressed because we fear the future. Not in a rightwing "fear! fear! terror! terror!" way, but because we want to see a better future and we think a better future is possible, only we don't quite know how to get there.

My own personal feeling is that we here on DU as well as in the wider Democratic/liberal community have less to worry about regarding the "I'm depressed" threads than we do about those who express utter shock and surprise at the new evils that are uncovered almost every day. Maybe it's the difference between optimism on one extreme, pessimism on the other, and a cynical pragmatism somewhere in the middle.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again for anyone who hasn't had the dubious honor: Back in the early summer of 2000, before the GOPers had nominated boooooosh and cheeeeeeeney, I warned my friends that if booooooooosh got into the white house, he would be our Hitler. My friends were horrified. There could NEVER be another Hitler, and certainly not in the US of A. NEVER. Besides, we don't hate the Jews enough to round them up and systematically slaughter them in this country. No one would stand for it. My response was that I didn't know who would be boooooosh's Jews, who he would target for persecution and maybe even annihilation the way Hitler did the Jews and the gypsies and so many other "undesirables," but that wasn't the point. It was the establishment of a dictatorship, the destruction of all the rights and privileges and benefits and blessings that had accrued to the concept of "The United States of America" over the past two centuries and more.

So far, the booooooshies have given me no cause whatsoever to think that my fear was misplaced.

But that does not mean I've given up. It may mean that I'm still fearful, but I'm also still hopeful. And those who have hope but can't achieve the goal experience anger.

Was I angry over the 2000 "election"? Oh, friends, you should have seen me when I blasted a professor at Arizona State University for his failure to control the rightwing students in our class who, like the mob in Florida, tried to shut me up. I would not be shut up. The professor -- securely tenured -- later confessed he'd been afraid of being fired over the incident, because he realized he'd been totally wrong and my rage was totally justified.

Was I angry over the 2002 "election" and the loss of Paul Wellstone? Oh, friends, you should have seen me at the memorial vigil for Paul held at the Dodge Theatre in Phoenix when boooooosh was in attendance, when the sweating but dressed to the nines wingnut shoved his face into mine and screamed of Wellstone, "I'M GLAD THE BASTARD'S DEAD!"

Was I angry over the 2004 "election"? Oh, comrades, you should have heard my silence as my husband and I drove across the country the day after that travesty. Cold fury kept me silent, and disgust with a candidate who would not fight. A candidate who had not fought his personal enemies in the summer and had not fought his political enemies in the autumn. I had forgiven Al Gore for his acquiescence in 2000 because there had been no precedent. I could not, and will not, forgive John Kerry. I am still angry.

Was I angry over the war? Oh, fellow travelers, you should have seen me in Glendale in August 2005, just a few days after my husband's death, when a group of us confronted the wingnuts over Cindy Sheehan. Anyone who'd been there would remember my unflagging profanity as I verbally assaulted the smug and unfit young man who dared to tell us that he wasn't going into the military to fight his president's war because the army had more recruits than it needed!

Was I angry when Pelosi took impeachment off the table? Was I angry when Gonzalez and Libby "couldn't recall" much more than their own names? Was I angry when cheeeney exempted himself from compliance with classified information security? Was I angry at Karl Rove. . . . for any/everything? I was, and I am.

I have my days of hope and my days of anger. I have days of triumph and days of shame. But more than anything else, I fear the day when I no longer feel anything at all.


Tansy Gold

[bigtree]

26. very inspiring

thanks for your anger, and for your thoughtful post


(I'm going to jump off here . . . sundown . . .)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

35. No words, just

:hug: :grouphug:

[conscious evolution]

27. You could be right

True,there are those who have lost hope but I would not be surprised if there is a deliberate psyops underway.God knows they like trying to fuck with our head in every other way they can think of.

[treestar]

28. Could be

Though some of it seems to be just immaturity, expecting that a Dem congress meant we'd get everything we want, while the lawless Chimp is still President and the nonExecutive SOB is still Veep. Or that impeaching them would be undertaken as a matter of course. It's still a big deal to do that. We don't want a precedent for having an impeachment every single time the Congress and President are different parties. There's the matter of proof and the matter of going through such a crisis.

[Tansy_Gold]

30. Maturity

I think you have a valid point, treestar.

And I think it's also worth mentioning that just because one expresses depression or frustration, one is not necessarily giving up all hope. One can be hopeful at the same time one is frustrated with the lack of "progress."


Tansy Gold, who is often VERY frustrated with the lack of "progress"

[WillyT]

32. Yes... Progressives Do Not Do Very Well With A Lack Of Progress !!!

:hi:

[zippy890]

31. maybe, maybe not

some of it may be genuine immature impatience

some it may be genuine mature anger/frustration

some of it may be somewhat sophiscated trolling/disrupting

I would guess 20% group 1: 20% group 2 which leaves the majority of them group 3