If you're upset over the high price of prescription drugs, consider this:

[Obamarama]

I work in a large internal medicine practice. It is standard operating procedure for pharmaceutical representatives to buy an entire medical office lunch so the rep can get MAYBE 10 minutes in front of a doctor.

I've seen the bills for some of these lunches when they are delivered to our practice and the average bill is about $150 (I've seen as low as $85 for pizzas and as high as $350 for a spread brought in by a private chef).
They are frequently more than $150 a shot, but lets go with a conservative price of $150.

Now, consider that a drug rep may be doing lunches at various practices 4 days out of the week. That's $600 a week spent by just one drug rep for lunches taken to medical practices.

Next, say that a drug rep only does lunches for three weeks time out of the month. That's $1,800 a month on lunches. Spread out over the year, that comes out to $21,000 a year.

Next, say you are in an urban area and there are at least 50 drug reps providing 50 medical offices lunches a week. That comes to $1,050.000.00 per year on what is known in the medical community as "drug lunches."

Then, lets imagine that there are 50 urban areas where this takes place. The yearly drug lunch tab jumps up to $52.5 million. And that's a CONSERVATIVE estimate. This takes place all over the country.

This isn't counting the cost of countless pens, clocks, note pads, hand soap and hand sanitizers that are given out by drug reps everyday.

CAN YOU IMAGINE HOW MUCH DRUG COSTS COULD BE LOWERED IN THIS COUNTRY IF THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES QUIT GIVING MEDICAL PRACTICES A FREE LUNCH???

I refuse to eat them, as I consider it unethical to do so given my attitudes and opinions against big pharma. I know my "boycotting" of these lunches doesn't do anything, but at least I can eat my lunch with a clean conscience.

[Radio_Lady]

1. Bravo for bringing this important subject up, KzooDem. I salute you -- and others like you

who can sleep at night knowing you're not a part of this disgusting practice.

In peace,

Radio Lady in Oregon (Film reviewer for OPB's Accessible Information Network -- My preview and discussion of the movie "Sicko" posted here:)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1170015

[Radio_Lady]

16. Imagine the free food that the pharmaceutical lobbyists pay for with Washington politicians?

That's gotta account for flowing champagne just like the Potomac River!

[acmavm]

2. Yeah, the Hypocratic Oath has morphed into the Hypocritic Oath.

And drug companies crooked as well.

[Mythsaje]

3. That's without even considering the cost of television advertising

aimed at consumers.

Eliminate both these things and what do you have? Affordable drugs.

[Solon]

4. Add in the TV and print ads, and you can easily get up to the hundreds of billions of dollars.

I've seen some prescription drug commercials that don't tell me a damn thing about what the fucking drug DOES or what disease it treats. And don't get me started on these "disease/disorder/mayhem" commercials. BTW: What the fuck is "restless leg syndrome"? I might have that one. :)

[Radio_Lady]

7. Well, RLS (restless leg syndrome) is a known illness -- my husband suffers from it.

He takes a drug to stop his kicking and scratching while sleeping.

Wish he could do without it, but it seems to help.

[Solon]

11. I know its a real syndrome, but most of the ones mentioned on TV...

are pretty rare, affecting far fewer people than you would think from watching the tube. Probably the worse way to market to people is to make them THINK they are sick when they really aren't. Another example would be anxiety disorders, which, if you look for it, is actually pretty rare, but at the same time, you can convince 90% of the population that gets a little nervous in some situations that they have it, and boom, you have 90% of the population on your wonder drug.

[Radio_Lady]

23. Yes, I used to work for a large pharmaceutical company -- I know the

problem is a difficult one to solve. I was not in the "ethical" drug division, but we handed out a ton of "free" product in an effort to eventually sell it in to the target markets.

You have to let the medical profession know about new drugs -- but this is more arm-twisting than anything. The inclusion of drug advertising to the public is a relatively new thing. It does have its downside -- and by that I mean all of the stomach, bowel, erectile, and sleep drugs that I see advertised on television. They are just the tip of the iceberg.

[SharonRB]

5. Good for you for sticking to your principles!

This is appalling. I think we all knew that drug reps did this, but when you look at the numbers like that, it has a really big impact.

[Obamarama]

14. The other kicker is a lot of the food gets wasted....

They almost always bring more food than is needed. Leftovers get put in the refrigerator (we have a dedicated refrigerator in our practice just for drug lunch leftovers!), and since another lunch will be brought the next day, the leftovers only occasionally get eaten. At the end of the week we have remnants of drug lunches in various stages of staleness/decay. Fridays is "clean out the drug lunch fridge day." The large trash can in the kitchen area is packed half full with drug lunch leftovers being thrown out.

So, in addition to wads of cash being wasted by the drug reps, perfectly edible food often winds up in the trash. The waste is a disgrace.

[BlackVelvet04]

6. from what I understand, the local Carillion's get lunch

every day (there are lots of Carillion centers) and sometimes breakfast as well.

[robinlynne]

8. excellent. small things add up to big things.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

9. Marketing costs...

The top ten pharmaceutical companies make more in profits than the rest of the Fortune 500 combined. Updated at 12:08 AM

Despite these outrageous profits, the drug companies' marketing budgets are two and a half times as large as their research budgets. The drug companies spend $19 billion a year to market their drugs to doctors and over $4 billion a year to market their drugs directly to consumers. Only the USA and New Zealand allow direct marketing of prescription drugs to consumers, and New Zealand is in the process of outlawing that practice.
From this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1163759&mesg_id=1163862

more here: http://www.motherjones.com/news/qa/2004/09/09_401.html

[Sanctified]

10. I work for a Software Company who specializes in the Medical Field...

And a free lunch is one of the easiest ways to get in front of a Doctor and his staff. Try getting to a Doctor any other time and it's almost impossible, if he is not seeing patients he is losing money. The only thing else that works more than Lunches is free rounds of Golf but it's hard to show software on the range and the person you really want to be speaking with, the office manager will not be there.

[Warpy]

12. They'd be lowered 10 times as far if we stopped the ethically

horrific practice of advertising prescription drugs directly to patients on radio, TV and in print. Until patients can prescribe for themselves, this is unconscionable and one of the worst decisions Congress ever made.

Advertising budgets are higher than R&D budgets. Clearly, this is insane.

The lunches, sticky notes, pens, and other tchotchkes are small stuff compared to the massive TV advertising budgets, alone.

[dogday]

13. I changed from Walgreens to Costco and I am

saving over 400 dollars a month... That shows you how much of a profit Walgreens is making...

[Radio_Lady]

24. Sounds like a good move! We're encrusted in the Kaiser Permanente system...

I haven't had a chance to even figure out whether Costco would take the KP prescriptions, much less the charges for them. But we're lazy -- we buy the drugs from the KP Pharmacy because it's right there in the same location as the doctors.

[Stinky The Clown]

31. We have Kaiser too and we pay $5 a scrip.

Do you pay more than that?

[Radio_Lady]

35. Yes, we do pay more. We're part of Senior Advantage which is the policy they write for those of us

of Medicare age.

Are you speaking about a daily prescription (assuming it's 30 pills per month per prescription)?

We use the option of purchasing 90 pills every three months which are mailed to our home -- most of those Rx's cost some more.

Sorry I don't have everything written down... I think it's more like $30.00 -- but sometimes LESS -- for 90 doses of most generic drugs.

[TommyO]

15. My doctor's office is probably one of those rare ones

that doesn't accept free lunches, gifts or trinkets from drug reps. In fact, they have a sign clearly posted on their office door that they will not accept visits from reps from 11:00 AM to 2:00PM, and that any visit requires an appointment.

[Obamarama]

18. Bravo to them!

I don't mind the pens, sticky notes, etc... that the drug reps give out. Those get used in a medical office, and after all the drug companies are in business to make a profit and they must undertake some type of marketing activities. But it's these drug lunches that get caught in my craw.

[TommyO]

37. The office does take the literature and samples and

definitely does use them to help out people who have trouble affording the meds due to poor, or no, insurance, or for what they're actually meant for - trials to see if it's the med that works without having to involve insurance, something that I've been the benefactor a few times.

[nutshell2002]

17. No Free Lunch

I'm with you! I am a nurse in an emergency department and I politely decline the "free" lunches, "free" pens, etc. When my colleagues asks why (the reps never ask why) I explain my reasons hoping to help just one see that nothing is free. Fortunately, larger institutions like Stanford, Yale, Henry Ford and UCLA have reportedly instituted policies regarding gifts, samples, lunches, etc, from Big Pharma. Hopefully the trend will continue!

Have you seen this website? www.nofreelunch.org

[Obamarama]

21. You get free lunches in ER???

I knew they were a daily occurence in medical practices and assumed it must happen on a more limited basis in the hospital setting, but I never imagined ER was getting free lunches too!

WHAT A COOL WEBSITE. Thanks for the link!!

[knitter4democracy]

19. Amen to all of that.

Look at any medical journal--it's half ads. Expensive ones, too. Thank goodness the NEJM doesn't allow ads in the meat of the journal, but JAMA does. Horrible.

Hubby usually works through lunch and so doesn't see the reps or talk with them. He tries to avoid them, too, and he just brings home their stuff for the kids to play with and break. It's all junk anyway (crappy pens, sticky notes with too big a logo on them to really use, stuff like that).

He actually ate the lunch one day with one of the other docs, and the rep didn't understand how the drug actually worked. She tried to say that it was better than the other one on the market when there were only a couple of teeny differences (and the other one had gone generic anyway). He and the partner sat and explained to her how the drug she was selling worked and how it wasn't that much different, though far more expensive. She actually thanked them for teaching her about her own product.

[Oeditpus Rex]

20. Not to mention scads of samples of the meds they're pushing

Of course, some doctors — mine, for example — pass those on to their patients, free.

Something tells me, though, that those cost the pharm companies the least of all their "enticements."

[Obamarama]

22. At least in our office we generally reserve free samples for low-income patients...

We'll give samples to "regular" patients if they are going to run out before they can get a med refilled, but most of them go to the un/under insured or low-income patients.

[Radio_Lady]

25. I was told in the Kaiser Permanente Nurse Treatment Room that they don't give out ANY FREE SAMPLES.

No questions asked about income.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. I'm in no way defending the drug reps' lunches, but they also give away drug samples

My mother was provided a few of her heart meds by her doc, who got them (I believe) as samples and simply gave them to her cuz he knew the cost for her was a serious issue.

She once told me that her doc saved her in excess of $3000 a year. When your income is $14,000, that $3,000 worth of Big Pharma largess matters a WHOLE lot.

Her doc was the dearest man in the world. A Marcus Welby type who retired slowly as his patients left him. He took on no new patients for many years and he and his wife kept their office open just to service his existing patients. As they passed away, his practice shrunk just that much.

He and his wife, both well into their 80s, attended both my Mom and my Dad's funerals. He didn't need to do that. But that's the kind of man he was. I don't know for sure how he came into the drugs he gave my Mom, but I suspect they HAD to be samples.

[Obamarama]

28. I have no beef with the free samples (see my post above)

We use them primarily for those who need the extra help. I'm glad your mom has such a compasionate doctor! :-)

[az chela]

29. Free samples

The doc usally gives you several free pills and then when you go to get the script filled it can be anywhere from 150 to 500 a month for the new drugs

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Not in my Mom's case

He gave her free meds for well over 15 years and to my Dad for maybe two or three years before he died. He gave them the meds that their insurance wouldn't cover.

I haven't thought about him for a few years, but as I sit here typing this, I'm recalling what a truly kind and caring man he is.

[Radio_Lady]

36. Those doctors are gone but not forgotten. One of my doctors gave me free samples

when my husband moved to Oregon in Oct. 1997 and I was back in Massachusetts selling our home until April 1998.

During that interim period, we had a KP policy, but the nearest KP office was in Springfield, MA -- about 150 miles away. Forget about it! I guess if I had broken a leg, they might have paid for emergency room treatment under those circumstances. Luckily, I didn't test that for fact or fiction.

However, my KP doctors were all in Oregon -- along with the KP pharmacies!

My old internist who was my doctor for 27 years -- gave me samples from his closet and that kept me going until we officially moved out to Oregon.

[az chela]

27. I used to work for DR

and we were always getting free lunches,the prevacid rep would call and ask what restaurant we wanted lunch from.We also were given free gifts all the time

[madrchsod]

32. cost a lot of money to hire barbie and ken..

so they have to prove their worth...

my heart doc gave me a years supply of medicine from his wall cabinet. got to love those free samples!

[madrchsod]

33. i forgot their pens are the best...

i usually try and snatch one if i see them laying around...

[supernova]

34. Wednesday was Drug Rep Day at the Cancer Center

When I worked for an MD at the Cancer Center, one of my jobs was to keep the Drug Reps away from the boss. They literally trolled the halls of the office suites. And this is at a major research and teaching university hospital!

Here comes the compazine guy (always get the free samples. You can't have too much compazine around w/ chemo.)

Here comes the Oxycontin Lady. These women are almost always young and good looking, like chemical stewadesses. She was no exeception. I did like her clothes though and asked her where she shopped. (Get the free samples. But the doc has to sign for them, since it's a Narc.)

Here comes another guy talking about a free trip to Pinehurst. It's a golfing weekend, and we're gonna have a seminar on a new Phase 1 cancer drug. (No samples but get the name of the person who gives out grant money for this Pharma.)

Oh yes, and lunch is served in the clinic conference room.

:eyes:

There were so many of them, I would sometimes shut my office door in the afternoon while the MD and the RNs were down in the clinic. If I wasn't careful, I could waste an entire day having Drug Reps schmooze me up and try to sneak in to see the doc.

[Gelliebeans]

38. It must be hard

to deal with the drug peddlers as I call em. I am chronic patient (in there every 4 weeks) and had a discussion with one of my doctors recently about this very thing. He treats quite a few geriatric patients and many meds just aren't covered by medicare so he supplies them with free samples so he looks at this like a necessary evil. That doctor still volunteers twice a year in Nigeria for an AIDS clinic. By the way I love him to death.

Another doctor I see refuses to see the reps without an appointment. I am equally proud of his stance. As the OP pointed out if we could get our meds for a decent price or better yet free especially for our elderly on fixed incomes, doctors wouldn't have to be hounded day in and day out.

What can you do? :shrug:

It is a catch-22 for those in the medical industry and you all have my sympathy.

[Gelliebeans]

39. I wanted to thank you

for taking a stand. It does make a difference even if no one notices.

:)

[Telly Savalas]

40. If the lunches were abolished, they wouldn't pass the savings along to the consumer.

Pharmaceuticals are priced to maximize revenue. If a magic wand was waved and all the marketing and R&D costs went away, pharma companies would still sell their product for the same price.

If drugs costs to consumers are to be kept in check, then price controls need to be a condition of patent protection. (In most cases, patented pharmaceutical products are in essence monopolies, so pricing isn't subject to competitive pressure. The government should step in to correct this market failure.)

A tighter leash needs to be put around drug advertising, not so much to contain costs, but rather to ensure that medical decisions are based on science, not on bullshit marketing gimmicks.

[blondie58]

41. good point, Telly Savalas

you can bet that they wouldn't lower the price of the drug.

I am on a drug that costs anywhere from $1,100 to $1,400 per month, although I have insurance, so it is a $50 monthly co-pay, up from $10 three years ago.

I see all of the drug companies spending major dollars on seminars, etc. There are four main drugs to treat this condition and they really compete and make their presence known, competing amongst each other with "informational seminars" about this condition.

I went to one at the Denver Zoo a few years ago. I can't imagine the cost of a dinner at the DENVER ZOO- it couldn't have been cheap.

I am grateful that I have insurance. THere are many who are without. And these particular drugs are 'injectables', requiring refrigeration, so I know that there are no free samples.

[many a good man]

42. Those drug reps earn over $300K per year

The daughter of a friend of a friend is doing this now. She made almost $400K last year. Main qualification: you have to be a beautiful young woman.

I had an old friend who did it for many years until she got nerve damage from lugging around that big briefcase full of freebies. She was totally brainwashed that she was doing good for humanity.