We saw "SiCKO" in Seattle last night

[Missy Vixen]

If you're looking at the time stamp on my post, you may be wondering why I'm up at 3:45 a.m. I've been attempting to fight off an upper respiratory thing for a couple of weeks now. Even with health insurance, I'd like to avoid that trip to the doctor. It's looking like I'm going to need to go next week. In the meantime, I suppose I should get on my knees and thank God for that medical insurance, because I saw a lot of people this evening that have none.

The movie theater we were in was packed. There was applause during several parts of the film, and sustained applause at the end. We also were asked to do a written survey of our impressions on the film. When I asked the guy collecting the surveys why, he said we were the first showing on the West Coast, and Michael Moore wanted to know what we all thought. He flipped one of the completed surveys over and began scribbling my comments as I spoke to him. I told him I was only sorry that I had no telephone number for Michael Moore, because I wanted to talk with him about what I believe is the best work of his career.

"SiCKO" is much more powerful in its own way than both "Bowling For Columbine" and "Fahrenheit 9/11". Surprisingly enough, it's also much more subtle. Not only was the filmmaker attempting to get all of us to understand the huge financial and personal cost of the crisis of health care in the United States, he was trying to show that we must work together to find our way out of it. I will be curious to know what others here thought of the movie; I told DH on the drive home that anyone who thinks about what they've just seen will find themselves coming to some fairly tough conclusions. Our elected representatives on both sides of the aisle have shamelessly and repeatedly bellied up to the health insurance money trough, and now that bill's come due. If we are serious about universal health care in the United States -- and at this point, we have no other choice -- they will have to go. Every last one of them.

Every last one of us knows someone who has been drastically affected by health care costs, or is someone who does not have health insurance. Of course, there are multiple stories of those who lost everything because they were uninsured, their insurance company denied their claim (wait, ladies, till you see the woman who was denied coverage of a VERY expensive surgery because she had a routine female health complaint,) or because they just could not get treatment for whatever illness they had.

One of the most telling statements of the film came from a former member of Parliament. He made the statement that Britain decided they had no other choice than to institute their national health care coverage because, as he said, (paraphrased,) "If we had the money to kill people, we had the money to pay for health care."

The footage in Cuba will break the heart of the most hardened. Imagine a first responder at the World Trade Center on September 11th, desperately ill and can't get adequate treatment in the USA because she can't afford it, being told that not only would she be getting the care she needs, it doesn't cost her a cent. The inhaler she needed in the US is $100. It's five cents in Cuba. We claim these folks are our heroes, but we can't take care of them when they are sick as a result of their work. After all, Rudolph Giuliani, Christie Todd Whitman and the rest of our government lied about the air quality in New York City for months.

One of the questions Michael Moore asked: How can we, as a society, condemn others to live this way?

You'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll come out of the theater mad as hell.

The revolution starts now.

Julie
edited for inartful use of the English language ;-)

[Nimrod2005]

1. Thanks and get well soon....nt

[babylonsister]

2. Great review-thank you! I'm going next week hopefully. nt

[nolabels]

3. Good health care shouldn't be a right or privilege, it should MANDATORY

The amount of effort the village spends to see a person though their lifespan should never be allowed to be wasted by a broken health care system.

[Rene]

6. That's what I believe....if there's ANY treatment for a Medical condition....ANYONE has a right to

the full benefit of the treatment. Even those of us with insurance....get layered levels of treatment, based on the type of insurance our companies bought into---and they go cheap to save money. That's just B.S. PLUS....can you imagine the job growth in the Medical field if folks were able to get the tests/treatments they NEED. We'd better start training folks for medical careers NOW to ensure there's enough staff.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. I've talked about Sicko with my doctor

and she told me horror stories that MM didn't get into in the film--that insurance companies try and tell doctors what drugs to prescribe and treatments to give. One patient needed to get off a drug because it was negatively effecting another condition she had--doc didn't go into specifics, of course, but it was like the patient needed some sort of medicine for, say, her kidneys, but what the insurance company would pay for was a drug that would negatively impact her heart condition. Doc explained this to the patient, and let the patient choose--get the scrip that wouldn't effect her heart and pay for it out of pocket, go with the one the insurance company would pay for, knowing it could do a number on her heart, or take nothing. The patient opted for the last choice. Doc was very mad at the insurance company because of that.

She does cutting edge treatments for folks and has had great success-stopping macular degeneration in some cases, for example. She writes up what she has found for medical journals after she has done enough treatments to make her findings statistically significant. She's used to not getting paid by insurance companies for this type of work---but gets furious when they deny claims for treatments that HAVE BEEN SHOWN by numerous studies to work.

[lwcon]

4. Cross-link

Thanks for sharing your excellent write-up.

Here's my two cents:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3336543&mesg_id=3336543

The scariest thing, I thought, was how vulnerable those of us who have insurance are. I hope your respiratory condition lets up or is easily treatable. If it's not, there's this little clinic about 90 miles from Miami. Just take the I90, turn right at I95, and then...

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[Vinca]

5. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm grateful Michael Moore focused on

people WITH insurance as opposed to those of us who know from the get-go that we're screwed. If this doesn't wake the sheeple up, I don't know what will. If we can afford wars of choice, we sure as hell can afford health care for every American.

[Squatch]

7. Sicko was Michael Moore's best work by far.

Absolutely incredible work.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. It's a very powerful film

I've seen it online and plan to attend the opening here in the town where I work. I'm one without health insurance, and I'm not sure I want it after seeing this film, as it seems to me that it is simply throwing money away. When my husband had Blue Cross, they denied many of his claims and we're still paying off the bill. I figured it was because we use a holistic physician, but after seeing the film, I realize that insurance companies will use any excuse to get out of paying.

One important point in the film that wasn't stressed is the importance of preventive medicine. Do you take Monolauren? When I had an upper respiratory infection, I took it and was well in less than a week. I take it now as a preventative. (I took it through the winter and never got flu-only after I stopped taking it in April did I get sick!)

[blondie58]

10. I've not seen it yet

but that is very interesting about the Monolauren. I have never heard of it, but I will look into it. My two daughers are constantly fighting off bugs and it sounds like it would be helpful.

[canetoad]

19. Preventative measures were not dealt with in-depth

But there were many mentions of the effects of worry and anxiety on general well-being. Chicken and egg - you get sick, get anxious about care and money, get sicker.

[Missy Vixen]

20. I'm going to have to find and try Monolauren

Antibiotics kick the living daylight out of me, and I'm afraid to keep taking them.

Thank you so much for the tip!

Julie

[Bonhomme Richard]

11. As depressing as our health care is, what really got to me was...

how morally sick this nation has become. The greed, selfishness, and fear that now pervades every aspect of our national being is completely out of control.
As a nation, we are like a psychotic that escaped from an institution with a car full of weapons.

[Missy Vixen]

22. I think this is the true message of "SiCKO"

>The greed, selfishness, and fear that now pervades every aspect of our national being is completely out of control.<

It's not just illness and it's not just the insurance companies and prescription drug purveyors. It's us. The only way to start healing the sickness in our own country is to have health care that is free to all. Those who "have" are terrified they'll lose it, those who "don't have" are terrified they'll find themselves in the position of so many he profiled in the film. There is a line at the end of the movie, and I apologize in advance to those who may not have seen it -- Michael Moore asks in the voiceover what the average American could do with their lives if they weren't burdened with student loan debt and medical bills.

Julie

[skepticscott]

49. Let's not be naive here

Saying that universal health care will be "free" to everyone isn't really true and just makes it that much easier to attack the whole idea. Of course health care will still have to be paid for in some way or another, but taking the profit out of it and removing the insurance middlemen would bring costs down and raise efficiency tremendously over our current system. Naturally, the free-market worshippers blow a gasket when you say that, but they have a hard time showing how the free market has made our health care better and cheaper for everyone, oe even for the people who have it. How can you argue that the free market is working when more and more people can't afford something every year? We spend more per person than any other country on earth on health care (at least twice as much as all but about 6 or 7 other countries) but we still lag behind on all important measures of overall health. And of course it's these same free-marketers (or at least most of them) who had no problem with a Medicare reform bill that deprived the government (the biggest buyer in the world) of the right to negotiate for lower drug prices, which is SUPPOSED to be what a free market is about.

Aside from the insurance companies themselves, how much time and money is wasted in doctor's offices and hospitals every year verifying insurance status, submitting billings and collecting from slow-paying insurers? A ton. And how much time do HR people at businesses all over the country spend on health insurance issues, especially struggling every year or two to re-adjust their benefits and negotiate new deals when premiums take double-digit spikes? Even leaving aside the purely financial benefits, how many people stay in jobs they hate, jobs that keep them from spending time with their families, because they can't afford to lose their health benefits?

[stevietheman]

131. I often think of the people who might prefer to be entrepreneurs, or...

even do mostly volunteer work, but can't because they have to keep the corporate job they hate just because of the health insurance.

I think America's long-term economic health would bounce back soon after universal health coverage is enacted. We would see a vibrant entrepreneurial economy spring up before our very eyes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

150. I want to retire but need to stay on because of health insurance

Some days I think it is ridiculous that I let this be the main reason I hold on to a job I hate. But then I know that a medical crisis would bankrupt me if I had no insurance. And the monthly premium for retirees is outrageous. So it's smarter for me to keep working.

[rainbow4321]

57. Greedy, selfish hospitals

The one that I work at is throwing a hissy fit because a competitor has built 3 (soon to be 4) brand spanking new hospitals all within about, maybe, a 20 mile radius, including one that is literally 1.6 miles up the road from us. One of them compares itself to a luxury resort for the patients to stay at, another is specifically for cardiac patients ( high $$ care)
The new places are draining my facility of patients, doctors, and nurses. I looked up the annual revenue of my hospital....$800,000 in a single year, it's a 420 bed hospital. And they are doing whatever it takes to keep every dime of it. Including turning their competition into federal and state officials because docs are allowed to buy into the new hospitals at a discount rate, giving them like a 300% profit in return. Of course, they didn't do this til the competitor built the hospital down the street from us..never mind it's the same doctor deal down in their Dallas hospital branch (that branch posed no threat to our place, this one does.)

Anyone that thinks hospitals genuinely care for you as a patient is in lala land. All they want is your insurance/Medicare money. And they will stop at nothing if their piece of the pie is in danger of being shared with another hospital chain.

And who suffers? The staff at the bottom of the food chain. The ones getting their hours cut so the hospital can save $$$ where ever they can.

In turn, the patients will suffer cuz the quality care will drop. They still get the same bill for their "care" , but the care is crappier because bedside staff nurses are overwhelmed and short staffed. The seasoned nurses are jumping ship to go where the patients are (at the new hospitals)..so the remaining, overwhelmed staff are the newbies, new grads..ones that cannot seem to stay afloat on a **good** night. How long will THEY last?? The hospital will put up with their mistakes/complaints, etc.. because they are paid cheaper than experienced nurses who would want/deserve more $$. All this leads to more crappy, unsafe patient care.
Til the PUBLIC sees this and makes the hospitals change their ways, nothing will change. It'll just be a vicious cycle.

[juajen]

65. $800,000 is a very small amt. of yearly revenue for a hospital

Are you mistaken, or was that a typo?

[rainbow4321]

77. 800 million....after my "1 hr to edit" time passed I realized I mistyped

I SHOULD have put $800 million/yr...stupid typo. Logged on right now to
correct it best I could and saw your response.

My apologies.

[eridani]

84. The more hospitals a given catchment area has, the more expensive health care will be

--for the exact same reason that having 4 or 5 fire departments in a city would be way more expensive than having one.

[rainbow4321]

125. The place I work at has been spoiled over the years

For decades they were the only hospital in the county, then came one more hospital, then another, then another.
Collin County (TX) was hit bad when the dot com bubble burst...massive layoffs, outsourcing, etc. The county freaked cuz their whole economy was held up by that industry. So about 5 yrs ago they announced that they would turn to the healthcare industry to boost the county's coffers.
The ironic part is, my hospital chain is owned by, uh, a well known repuke political family, shall we say. They are, indirectly, losing money/patients because of the current repuke regime economy..if their had been no layoffs/outsourcing/dotcom businesses closed, the county would have had no need to turn to the healthcare industry for rescue, so no new hospitals would have been built (or not as many perhaps) and the repuke owned hospital could have kept it's coffers filled. Instead, their 420 bed facility at one point last month only had 95 patients. Last week there were only 145. And this has been going on since April...July/August are historically the "slower months" for admissions cuz people and docs are on vacation. I just wonder what the definition of "slow" will be this summer when they are lucky to be at 20% occupancy in the usually "busy" spring months.

[PA Democrat]

12. Great review, Julie.

My hubby and I plan to see SiCKO when it hits our local cinema complex. But I've already signed up for the revolution. I spent much of the past week filing a complaint with my state's Insurance Department against my former health insurance company for wrongly denying a $4300 claim. Seems they have a long history of denying claims by fabricating "proof" that your claim is for a "preexisting condition."

What has me personally so ANGRY that I could spit, is that the company has been successfully sued, penalized, fined in TWELVE states for the exact same thing, and yet they continue to do it. Furthermore, it took me several weeks of research to find out about their sordid history, because it's almost NEVER covered by the media. I guess the media likes the ad revenue that they get from the SOBs too much to cover their crimes.

[jtrockville]

13. I saw it in Bethesda Maryland last night.

It was so sad to see the care given to the "insured" in this country. I'm convinced that profit and insurance have no place in a health care delivery system.

[Chalco]

14. I saw it in Bethesda, too!

Even though through my travels I knew the information he was going to present I was still profoundly moved by the movie. Moved and angry. I went to Italy a few years ago and got very involved with some of the locals and found out stuff I hadn't known from previous trips. Italians have free health care and free college education. They also had hybrid cars.

The corporatacracy owns this country and everyone does its bidding from the politicians to the media. We are not a democracy. Our country is not of the people, by the people or for the people. There will be a revolution. And, I will be on the front line.

[jtrockville]

34. I hope to see you on the front lines of the revolution!

I'll be there.

[Auntie Bush]

43. Count me in! Although I'm probably too old for the front line...I can support the back line. nt

[progressoid]

15. "it's also much more subtle"

That's exactly what he needed to do. His previous films tended to be a little too vehement.

Some times the "speak softly and carry a big stick" method works better.

[Occulus]

16. I managed to see a shoddy quality download copy

I've been telling everyone I work with to see this film. I'll be taking a few friends to see it on the holiday weekend too.

Of course, owning a copy of the DVD is a foregone conclusion :) I also think I can honestly say that, in this one case, having downloads available before the film comes out has generated an enormous amount of buzz. I predict it'll do much better than F911, simply because this is one issue everyone can wrap their minds around.

I knew the American healthcare system was in dire straits, but I did not know just how bad it truly was when compared to the rest of the industrialized world. We have to do better than this.

[EFerrari]

17. All those folks who volunteered at the pile are on their own, too.

:mad:

I hope you feel better, Julie.

[nedbal]

37. folks who volunteered at the pile DO have some medical & compensation they can sign up for

I never worked on the pile, I was like a half mile away, went in early (for me ) that afternoon, and worked double shifts for 2 months after 9/11 , then went back to regular hours, I could look up & figure out exactly how far away. There is some help for those that worked or volunteered anywhere south of Canal St, without looking it up could be as far as 2 miles away.

I did go down to the site/pile the first time for an hour like 4 days later to get a look.

[EFerrari]

44. That's good to hear,Ned. Can you post a link?

Thanks so much.

[nedbal]

48. link The World Trade Center Medical Monitoring Program New York State Workers' Compensation

http://www.wtcexams.org/
The World Trade Center Medical Monitoring Program
*** ALERT ***

Reserve your right to file for New York State Workers' Compensation for WTC-related injuries and illnesses by registering before August 14, 2007.

Learn more here.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


New Findings on 9/11 Responder Health

A report on the health effects of working at Ground Zero and related areas after September 11, 2001, had on nearly 9,500 patients in the WTC Worker and Volunteer Medical Screening Program was published in the September 2006 issue of Environmental Health Perspectives.

Follow-up Examinations

The World Trade Center Medical Monitoring Program provides free, confidential medical monitoring examinations to workers and volunteers who responded to the September 11th attacks in New York City. For the next five years, responders who participate in the Monitoring Program will receive comprehensive and confidential medical examinations at regular intervals. Please see the Program Overview for a complete description.



Program Highlights

How have we been doing? From July, 2002 to the present, the WTC Medical Monitoring Program and its parallel effort, the WTC Health Effects Treatment Progam have been busy caring for the first responders to the the 9/11 attacks. A summary of the activities for the Medical Monitoring Program can be found here. The Treatment Program summary can be found here.





http://www.dc37.net/about/OSHA/9_11workerscomp.html

9/11 Workers and Volunteers: Register now
to protect your right to workers’ compensation benefits
Deadline set for 9/11 Workers' Comp
Extended filing time for WTC rescue, recovery and cleanup Workers’ Comp claims
WTC-12 form (PDF*)
WTC Medical Monitoring Program
DC 37 Safety and Health Department
New York Committee for Occupational Safety and Health (NYCOSH)

http://www.dc37.net/news/PEP/12_2006/9_11workerscomp.html
9/11 Workers and Volunteers!
Register Now to Protect Your Right to
Workers’ Compensation Benefits

If you did paid or unpaid rescue, recovery or clean-up work in Lower Manhattan during the year after 9/11, you may be eligible for medical and wage replacement benefits — but only if you register first with the New York State Workers’ Compensation Board!

If you lived or volunteered in clean-up areas

anywhere in Lower Manhattan south of Canal or Pike Streets, or
on the barge operation between Lower Manhattan and Staten Island, or
at the Staten Island landfill, or
at the New York City morgue,
AND
you were exposed;
your claim has been denied;
You have filed a successful claim but you haven’t filed a workers’ compensation claim;
You need to REGISTER!

[Occulus]

81. This part of your post grabbed me:

"9/11 Workers and Volunteers!
Register Now to Protect Your Right to
Workers’ Compensation Benefits

...

AND
you were exposed;
your claim has been denied; "

The irony. I feel SiCKO.

:D

[Missy Vixen]

114. Please see "SiCKO"

George Pataki said right in the footage that there would be coverage. IF you can prove you were at the site for a "sufficient" amount of time.

One of the featured people in the movie was turned down for this coverage. Evidently you must be able to prove that you were there. For some reason, it's very difficult for those who were there to produce adequate proof.

I'm not saying that the entire state of New York are liars. I am saying that I am more than a bit worried about the fact that first responders and those who worked on the aftermath of September 11th are still not receiving treatment for their resulting illnesses and injuries.

IMHO, YMMV,
Julie

[Morgana LaFey]

18. Julie - re your upper respiratory infection

Excellent review, btw.

I woke up with the beginning of an upper respiratory infection earlier this week, and it seemed especially ominous to me because it was starting in my lungs (as opposed to throat, or nose). I was rid of it by the end of the day, thanks to the herbs and other alternative health remedies I use. If you're amenable to alternative medicine, and are interested in the details, PM me.

[BlooInBloo]

21. I'll be curious to see if the box office receipts have been greatly impacted...

... because of its availability over the internet.

[canetoad]

23. I don't think it will be a huge issue

once the movie hits the ground running.

And I obviously can't speak for Mike Moore, but would imagine he would forego the small income from those who download but don't buy for the tag of being the person who galvanised your nation into taking action over healthcare.

[Missy Vixen]

24. After seeing the reactions of those in the theater last night

it's not going to be an issue. I think that people will drag family and friends to this movie, by any means possible. There is nobody currently residing in the United States that is not affected by the health care crisis -- well, perhaps I should say that there's nobody outside the CEO's office of major insurance companies and Congress, because they have the best health care money can buy.

As I said earlier, this is the best work of Moore's career. It is subtle. It is thoughtful. Yeah, parts of the film are very funny, but those seeing it are left with a seething anger as well as the knowledge that things in the health care industry must change. One man started the push for Canada's health care system. It would be great if Michael Moore's work was the catalyst here.

Julie

[BlooInBloo]

25. I suspect you're right. I loved it when I saw it.

[dogday]

148. Most movies are released (illegally) via the internet before

they are ever shown... Now whether they get you-tube coverage is another thing...

[sandnsea]

26. If he didn't address people's belief in the free market

Then he's still missed the biggest problem. People do not trust the same government that runs the VA to provide health care to them.

[Missy Vixen]

27. The "free market" isn't working either

I don't know if you've priced health care lately, but another poster on DU noted last night that her insurance premiums are going up 24% this year.

The "free market" has nothing to do with health care. It's unconscionable and obscene to ask someone, for instance, to choose which finger they'd like to save after a table saw accident because of financial considerations.

Please see "SiCKO" before you make up your mind.

Julie

[SeattleGirl]

45. Amen, Julie.

My "free market" health insurance premium is $378 A MONTH. A freakin' month. I didn't have insurance for 2 years, and was paying a lot for meds I need monthly. MrSG and I finally decided to put me on his health insurance he gets from work, and while I'm glad to have it, paying nearly $400 for it is obscene, IMHO. And even more obscene is that there are so many people in this country who cannot afford any health insurance at all. Or they get turned down because of something equivalent to a skinned knee in their childhood (I have seen Sicko, Julie, and my reference here, as you may guess, is to the woman turned down for insurance because of a common "female malady" she had years ago.)

Michael Moore has said he's been getting lots of positive feedback on the movie, and NOT just from Dems/liberals/progressives, but from Republicans/conservatives/etc. This IS an issue that crosses all party lines, all political persuasions, that touches everyone.

It is obscene, immoral, unethical, and flat out wrong that there are so many people in this country who are uninsured, or underinsursed, who cannot get the treatment they need, can't get the meds they need (or have to choose between the meds and adequate food and shelter for themselves and their families), while the insurance and pharmaceutical company CEO's are stuffing their pockets with more money per year than most of us will see in our lifetimes. The system is set up to take care of the bank accounts of these CEOs, NOT to do what they are supposed to do -- take care of the health needs and well being of the citizens of this country.

Something has to change, and I hope to God that this film plays a big part in getting people angry, riled up, pissed off, and ready to kick ass from here to DC and back, demanding change.

[sandnsea]

53. I'm not part of the 60% you need to worry about

When people have to choose between VA nightmares and what they have now, even at a higher price, they keep choosing what they've got now. Just the way it is. I wish Michael Moore and other single payer advocates would understand that.

[SeattleGirl]

56. So, you are saying that if we had universal health care here,

it would just be a nightmare? Are you maybe seeing things only from your own experience, and not looking beyond that?

Seems to me that that POV is very damaging, and also is what keeps things the way they are. The system we have right now is NOT better than universal care. There are many, many, MANY people who do not have access to health care, cannot afford it, get turned down for reasons that have nothing to do with medical opinion and everything to do with bean counter idiocy.

Sorry, but I really don't understand how anyone can continue to advocate for the piece of crap "health care" system in place in this country right now. It's a joke, and not a very funny one.

I for one do not buy into the myth that universal health care would cause long, long, long, long, extremely horrid delays in care. If you saw the movie, you would know that that is simply not true in countries that have universal health care. "So, how long did you have to wait until you saw the doctor?" "About 20 minutes." One example from the film.

We do not have a health care system in the US. We have a profit-making industry, comprised of insurance companies and big pharma, whose ONLY GOAL, period, end of sentence, is enriching the fucking bastards in the CEO chairs. That isn't health care. That's another "fuck you, little people" from those who occupy the CEO chairs, and those in their pockets who also make money from it.

Edited to add: The VA healthcare system is a separate entity from the private healthcare system that most people in the US have to use, so in a way, you are comparing apples to oranges.

[sandnsea]

67. The VA is a separate entity?

Exactly. And why wouldn't it be fair to compare it to private health care, when deciding whether you want to switch to government run health care.

[SeattleGirl]

70. Those of us who have never been in the military don't have a choice.

You do.

Apples and oranges.

Besides, saying it's "government run healthcare" (universal health care) is a straw man argument.

Sorry.

Apples and oranges.

[sandnsea]

75. No I don't have a choice

I have Oregon health care and I have to go to the local clinic, organized under Oregon health. It's the only option in my town, or I have to drive to the next town, if they have room for new patients and they usually don't. In my own clinic, I have to take the doctor assigned. I can ask for a different doctor, but if I make too much of a fuss, they can ban me, and I'll have to try to find some doctor somewhere else to see me. (If I went to the doctor, which I don't, because I can't afford it.) A friend of ours is banned from the cardiology group and has to drive over 100 miles to see a cardiologist. And this isn't even completely government ran.

People have a choice to not go to the VA. None of my uncles go. But it is government health care. It's perfectly fair to compare that to what is being proposed. People need to think about the way THIS country operates and the best health care plan that will be supported, and consequently funded.

[SeattleGirl]

78. I don't disagree with you that people have a choice not to go to the VA.

And thank you for explaining the system you are dealing with. Your best point was the last line in your post, which is what I have been saying to you: People need to think about the way THIS country operates and the best health care plan that will be supported, and consequently funded.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. In your previous posts, though, what I was reading/hearing is that you seemed to just dismiss out-of-hand any alternative to what we have now, be it your system in Oregon, or private health care, or whatever. I think it would behoove us to more closely study -- in as objective way as possible -- the health care systems in Canada, France, England, and other countries. Then look at the needs in this country, and work, truly work, to come up with the best possible solution to those needs.

And I think the #1 thing, regardless of which direction we went in, is to prohibit insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies from being publicly traded entities on the stock market. I'm not against capitalism, but IMHO, there are just some things that ought not to be traded on the stock market, because ultimately, what gets traded is the well-being of the many for the profits of the few.

[sandnsea]

80. 100% agreement

We have to change. I just would like to do it as quickly as possible. I honestly don't care if wealthy people want to piss their money down the stockholder drain - as long as EVERYBODY can get quality care, including preventive care. If a subsidized program is most agreeable, then let's go with that.

Also, what no one is talking about, is lack of medical schools. One of the reasons doctors make so much is that the number of doctors is highly regulated by the same doctors who rake in the dough. We need more medical schools, all the way around.

[Hippo_Tron]

82. I've been told that if we tried to insure everyone, there wouldn't be enough doctors

Let alone nurses. We definitely need more doctors.

[ProudDad]

90. you postulate an interesting argument against

VA health care which is seriously underfunded by the bushies don't cha know?

It still has nothing to do with a single-payer, universal health CARE plan like HR676.

Please read this before commenting further.

http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676_2.htm

Thanks... :hi:

[stevietheman]

133. Also consider: Waiting longer in a doctor's office is still...

preferable to not getting to have a doctor's visit at all. I wonder how this doesn't cross the mind of many people.

[kineneb]

66. and what of those that have no functional coverage?

The F***ing free market is meaningless to me. I am a full-time caregiver, and have "pre-existing conditions". Never mind that we could not afford an insurance premium on Hubby's SSDI monthly income of $1238. So the coverage that I can qualify for- the state's program for the "low income rural medically indigent" forces me to pay a share-of-cost of $280 per month, to spend down to $934 in living expenses. This is insane.

The next public health crisis will not care about the "free market". Want to try multiple-drug-resistant TB?

Stuff the free market. Single Payer Universal Health Care NOW!!!

[sandnsea]

68. I don't even get medicare

I've got nothing. People who do have good health insurance are not going to trade it for government or any other public health care that we've ever had. Not for any reason at all. They just won't.

Next solution please.

[SeattleGirl]

71. Holy cow, but you just won't let go of the talking points, will you?

"any other public health care that we've ever had...."

First, could you please tell us what those other systems were?

Second, why do you insist on hanging on to the old? Who says that a different kind of health care delivery system has to be the "old kind" (whatever the heck that was). And who says it has to be like your idea of/or experience of the VA system?

Sorry, but I just don't buy it.

It is people like yourself who will help the money-sucking CEOs keep the rest of us from getting something better than we have now.

Maybe you could try a little optimism?

Or maybe you could try coming up with a solution that YOU think would benefit the most people in the best way, instead of tossing out all the babies with the bathwater?

Just a thought......

[sandnsea]

76. Federal Buy-In

Sliding scale. Other options have been proposed. But the single payer crowd blocks every other idea out there. They refuse to accept where they live. If you can't get single payer in Oregon, you're not going to get it anywhere.

I'm optimistic about fully funding the plan Oregon has, even with all its faults. I'd like every person who wants subsidized insurance to get it. That could be passed tomorrow. But the people needed to pass it are busy chasing phony promises of single payer. It's damned annoying when you desperately need to see a doctor.

[SeattleGirl]

79. Well, then it sounds like the system in Oregon needs to be tweaked

so that there is true access to health care for all who need it. From what you said, it sounds like the doctors have a bit too much power, if they can ban a person from a clinic. That sucks.

[sandnsea]

83. I'm working on that

The person in question exagerrates a bit, so I didn't really believe that he'd been truly banned. Finally my husband called to try and get him an appointment and yep, he is banned. Doctors can refuse care. But since we don't have real choice here, because of our system, I'm trying to see if something hasn't been written into the federal waiver to stop this. It's just not right. But this is the kind of thing that I think we need to consider as we move forward. There will never be a system that won't need citizens constantly monitoring, making sure people aren't absconding with funds or handing out phony medicine or who knows what unscrupulous people will do. Cheats are cheats and don't care who they're stealing money from. Single payer won't stop that.

[eridani]

87. Private insurance will NE:VER tolerate buy in to the federal program

Like every other employment-linked insurance program, insurers are willing to tolerate underwriting the feds because employed working adults are on average much healthier than the general population. Under no circumstances would they continue to participate if any law mandated that actual sick people could sign up for it.

[ProudDad]

91. I'm sorry but do you know what you're talking about?

Private insurers will be BANNED from the single payer system.

They are irrelevant and will go the way of buggie whip manufacturers (thank the gods).

We the People need to make the decision not those leeches.

[eridani]

110. Yes--federal insurance is a plan paid for by taxpayers

It is run by private insurers. It isn't single payer.

[sandnsea]

93. It already exists

Oregon has subsidized insurance buy-ins, Mass has subsidized insurance buy-in. Buy in to the option of plans available to federal employees. Almost every state has some program that covers people who can't get insurance, and it's on a sliding scale too. If we opened it up to everybody, and made health care a mandated right, then of course it would work.

[eridani]

109. The Massachusetts plan is falling apart at the seams

It is three times as expensive as Romney said it would be. People would still not be able to afford to buy it. And at that, the plans that you can buy into are utterly worthless if the private insurers turn down your claims. State basic health plans help some people, but the get cut every time the budget process burps, and have twice as many people who need it after all the slots are filled.

What makes you think that just because you have a private insurance plan that their bureaucrats will allow you to get needed care?

[EVDebs]

145. Let's rescue MA with HR676 Medicare for All nt

[Missy Vixen]

117. Based on your opinion

>People who do have good health insurance are not going to trade it for government or any other public health care that we've ever had. Not for any reason at all. They just won't.<

And you'd know this how?

You freely admit that you are not paying current health insurance premiums, but you know what people would do in the instance they were offered a system similar to those who've been operating in other countries for the past fifty years with good results? The 44 million uninsured, I'm sure, would disagree with your assessment.

FACT: The health care system in the United States is broken. A single-payer universal care system, according to Howard Dean, would have cost $93 billion to cover every man, woman and child in the United States five years ago. We spent that much on the down payment to Iraq. The standard of public health in America lags behind every industrialized nation in the world. We've done it the insurers' way for quite some time now. It is time for a change.

Julie

[sandnsea]

123. I live in the reality based community

Where they keep rejecting it and rejecting poiticians who propose it. That's how I know it.

Howard Dean did not propose single payer.

[eridani]

154. No California state legislator who voted for single payer got kicked out of office

Nice to know that the "reality based community" thinks that Americans are screaming for higher taxes to subsidize private insurance.

[dogday]

149. Problem is a person might think it good until their coverage denies

a much needed operation, or an ambulance ride, or a new progressive cancer treatment...

How do covered people define good health coverage? Low premiums? Good overall preventative care? Getting the necessary procedures to live?


Do insured people realize that these Health Care Organizations get bonuses if they can keep the costs down..

[sandnsea]

155. Yeah, what people think

That's my original post. Did he address people's belief in the current free market system. That's the biggest block to change.

[eridani]

156. They also believe in fire deparments, which are not free market

Health care ought to be infrastructure like the fire department, not free market like iPods.

[sandnsea]

158. You're telling the wrong person

Reread my original post. You clearly don't understand what I've been saying. That, or just go away. I'm tired of you.

[eridani]

162. So we just should just accept corporate lies

We should never contradict them. Helping the corpos spread their lying memes is killing people, and you should quit doing it.

[sandnsea]

164. Good god read my post

"If he didn't address people's belief in the free market system..

Then he's still missed the biggest problem. People do not trust the same government that runs the VA to provide health care to them."

Hellooooo???? Is the free market not corporations??? People believe in the corporate system. If they didn't, WE WOULDN'T HAVE IT. Truth or lies, doesn't really matter. This is what people believe. Is Michael Moore going to deal with it, or pretend it doesn't exist like everybody at DU.

This isn't MY BELIEF. It's AMERICA. And even the polls that were posted right in this thread show it. It's reality. Wake up. You can't wish it away by yelling at it.

[eridani]

170. Halliburton is running the VA, not the government

The free market system could not exist without massive public investment in infrastructure. Health care is infrastructure.

According to you, what Americans really want is to have their taxes raised to subsidize insurance companies. I doubt it.

[Missy Vixen]

115. Considering the fact that VA hospitals are having their funding cut

right and left by the current occupant of the White House, I'm thinking that first of all, single payer would be established under a different administration.

>even at a higher price, they keep choosing what they've got now<

There are at least 44 million Americans who have no health coverage at all. The system is broken. They can't afford it at any price. It is time to break the stranglehold of the medical lobby over the health care of our citizens and start talking about everyone, not just the "lucky".

Julie

[sandnsea]

124. And what will happen to any other government health?

It ALL gets cut, all the time. That's why people reject it. DUH.

It'll be the same fight we have with social security, year after year after year. It's not going to be a magic bullet. Not in this country.

[canetoad]

28. You can only do so much in one movie

Without diluting the main message. He can't be Jesus - all things to all people.

[BlooInBloo]

29. He didn't mention Dennis Kucinich! It's a complete failure!!!!

:rofl:

[canetoad]

30. That's it then

I'm gonna have my memories of watching it removed by ECT.

[cyclezealot]

104. Moore was just up in NH. He encountered Kucinich

He thanked Kucinich and told Kucinich he has the only credible plan.

[sandnsea]

54. It's the biggest block to reform

Anybody who doesn't think so is really just living in denial.

[dogday]

152. Making medical decisions for people you don't know

based upon the fact of how it will affect the bottom line as opposed to how it will affect the sick individual is living in denial...

Denial is paying 733.00 dollars monthly for a premium that means nothing because Insurance Co.'s have more lawyers, they win in a decision that could cost you your life.

Does not matter that you have been faithfully paying your premiums and have lived up to your end of the agreement... There are those that pay people to find something on you to disqualify you somehow....

That is denial... To think that because you pay a premium, you will automatically get the health-care you deserve....

[eridani]

157. So, instead of fighting back for the public good--

--you just accept and spread corporate memes. Thanks for nothing, pal.

[JANdad]

52. Bullshit...

That is a RW talking point and shame on you for using it now!

ANY medical coverage is better than none in your worst case scenario...

Ask anyone who has served in the military and they will tell you that the active duty medical care is 1st rate...

The VA is purposley underfunded!

Seems that people have faith in our military...the police...the fire departments and so on...

What in the world makes you think that they would not have faith in a socialistic health plan?

[sandnsea]

55. They don't. Period.

It's just plain willful denial to pretend that people are chomping at the bit for single payer. They aren't. If it's ever passed, and I highly doubt it will be in my lifetime, it will be as a very last resort.

[SeattleGirl]

58. I think you are quite wrong. And as I said in my response to

your previous post, you are comparing apples and oranges. I'm sorry if you have had a bad experience with the VA's health care system, but it's no picnic in the private health care system.

To me, it is an abomination that profits come before people for insurance companies and big pharma.

And I also think you are buying into the RW talking points. That's too bad, because they are, for the most part, lies. I'm sorry you are buying into them.

[sandnsea]

69. We voted on it in Oregon, twice

Voted it down both times. People do not want single payer health care. It's a waste of time to try to pass it. People are dying. We need a different solution. I would like to go to the doctor. I resent the hell out of the left getting in the way of a very simple federal buy-in on a sliding scale.

[SeattleGirl]

73. Then GIVE ME A SOLUTION! Good grief, you keep posting and

posting and stomping your feet and insisting that people don't want single payer health care. Well, I'm a "people" and I hate this current fucked up system we have.

What is your solution, other than bitching and pissing and moaning about what "people" don't want. I've yet to read any actual good suggestion from you.

Call me nuts, but it seems it would be more productive to put your mind and your energy to good use and actually come up with some viable suggestions instead of just saying no no no no no no.

[stevietheman]

134. Time to recall the axiom: "Cynics don't create". n/t

n/t

[eridani]

89. You mean it's a waste of time to try to pass an initiative

I agree--we just can't compete the the RW noise machine, and people will vote no on anything that is too complex to really evaluate. California had the same experience in 1995, so the single payer advocates went through the legislature instead. Last year it was passed by both housees, and all CA needs is a governor willing to sign it. Not a single legislator who voted for it was defeated for re-election.

[sandnsea]

101. No I mean people are dying

While others choose to stomp their feet and demand single payer when the country is ready for just about any solution EXCEPT single payer.

[SeattleGirl]

102. I don't think that people in this country are looking at JUST single payer

health care. What they are looking for is a better system than we have, one that doesn't cost an outrageous amount of money in premiums, one that doesn't exclude people because they are poor, one that doesn't exclude people because of pre-existing conditions, one that does not allow fucking bean counters to make medical decisions.

You seem to be so stuck on this one thing.

Single payer is but one option. Please don't close yourself off to other possibilities.

[sandnsea]

103. Michael Moore is stuck on single payer

That's why I'm addressing it. I'm obviously not stuck on any one particular solution, as I've said repeatedly.

[SeattleGirl]

106. I have seen the movie, and didn't get that impression. Rather, my

impression was that he wants a better, fairer system in this country, be it single payer, or whatever.

His primary concern seems to be that the people in this country -- ALL OF US -- have access to quality health care, access that doesn't cost an individual and/or family thousands and thousands of dollars every year, one that doesn't cut people out of access to care for idiotic reasons, one that has as it's primary goal the health and well-being of the citizens of this country.

If singer payer health care does it, cool.

If another system does it, equally cool.

Personally, I don't care WHAT system it is. What I DO care about is that people get the preventative care they need, AND that they get the care they need when they are sick or hurt, without having to jump through a dozen hoops, and without having to decide between paying for necessary care and food on the table (or the middle finger and the ring finger being re-attached), and without having non-medical people decide who gets care, and what conditions get covered.

[cyclezealot]

113. Michael Moore was in NH

Moore praised Kucinich's Single Payer plan. Said it is the only workable system. As far as I am concerned, it is the only solution. If we don't get single payer, just let the present system stew , because any other Demcoratic plan just incorporates the corruption of the present system. Couple more years of the system the American people will then be ready for real reform.

[eridani]

107. If that's the case, why did the California legislature pass it?

Why didn't they unelect all those who voted for it in the Assembly and Senate?

[sandnsea]

126. Why did California vote for Schwarzenegger?

Who vetoed it?

[eridani]

153. Was the veto a campaign promise?

Where do you get this batty idea that what Americans really want is higher taxes to subsidize insurance companies? That's what Ahnold wants, and I'll bet he won't get very far with it.

Why no political penalties for the legislators who passed single payer?

[ProudDad]

94. "very simple federal buy-in on a sliding scale"

THAT'S WHAT SINGLE PAYER IS!!!!!

Sorry to yell but you just don't seem to get it...

[sandnsea]

100. No it isn't

Federal employees and congress have choices of several plans and insurance companies. It's not single payer at all.

[ProudDad]

141. It IS single payer

We the taxpayer are the single payer (the Federal Govt.)

The plans are administered by different entities but it's all single payer.

The MAIN point is to GET THE FOR PROFIT INSURANCE CORPORATIONS OUT OF THE MIX!!!!

Cheaper, better, faster without them...

[sandnsea]

147. Insurance administers FEHBP

http://www.opm.gov/insure/07/planinfo.asp

Not the government.

[eridani]

108. Not really

The health plan that covers federal employees is funded by private insurance companies, which don't mind because like all plans that cover only employed people, they eliminate those too sick to hold that kind of employment right off the bat. They will NEVER tolerate the enrollment of a lot of people with pre-exisiting conditions unless they are allowed to jack the premiums sky-high.

[EVDebs]

64. SB840 in CA is going to pass, since Gov Terminator vetoed it last yr

things are only getting worse. Time for the smart Republicans to do what they're doing in KS and like Bloomberg and just erase the stain of "R" from their names !

SB840 is the template. Other states can follow suit or see their state economies go into death spirals. Economies work under the demand-side acknowledgment of 'marginal propensity to consume'. When you've got too much going for healthcare, mortgages/rents, and now the gasoline to get to work (not to mention extortionate cable tv bills) you start to wonder about those Republican family values which all the while have you working to death and never at home to enjoy that family life !

[ProudDad]

92. "You Don't" you mean

Don't lay your negativity on the rest of the world.

Most of the world does NOT agree with your bleak outlook since their health CARE systems have proven your assumptions wrong.

Cheers and have a nice day...

[JANdad]

112. You were syaing...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1176685

I will accept all sincere appologies.....now

[sandnsea]

127. You're joking, right?

You think DU is representative of the country? It's not, not in a million.

[JANdad]

129. Nope...I know DU is not representative but...

maybe this will help...

http://www.nahu.org/legislative/single/SinglePayerAnimated.ppt

[sandnsea]

135. No, it's manipulated

I fucking HATE that shit. If they want to quote a poll, quote a goddamned SINGLE PAYER poll.

Same thing with the war. People quote polls on supporting a change in the war, as support for immediate withdrawal. They're TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Same with universal health care and single payer. TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

You also might want to read the thread. You don't need to convince ME we need a change or that we would have been better off to have implemented single payer years ago. It's the REST of the country and they are not going to give up their private health care easily. It's a whole different thing to advocate letting more people buy into medicare than to advocate being mandated into giving up your own private doctor. People in this country will not do it. If the single payer people really care about getting everybody health care, they have got to accept that reality. We will not get insurance and private providers out of health care. Give it up and move forward with changes people are ready to accept.

[JANdad]

137. Try this one:

http://www.davidsirota.com/2006/03/news-flash-america-wants-single-payer.html

"Question 49 shows 62% say they support a universal health care system "run by the government and financed by taxpayers" over the current system."

[sandnsea]

138. STOP cherry-picking

In the actual report - THIRD SENTENCE.

"That support, however, is conditional: It falls to fewer than four in 10 if it means a limited choice of doctors, or waiting lists for non-emergency treatments."

People will not give up their private doctors for single payer. Forget it. People are DYING while the left chases its utopian dreams.

[JANdad]

139. What makes you think

That we would have to give up anything? How do you come to this comclusion. The idea that we would have waiting lists or have to give up anything is a RW talking point!

[sandnsea]

140. THE POLL YOU JUST POSTED

God I live at the fucking ocean and there isn't enough sand for you people to bury your heads in.

[EVDebs]

144. Insurance company connections, or pharmacy industry ties got you down ?

The ability of Big Insurance and Big Pharma to cream the system and jack Wall Street around are almost over. You've got your insurance it seems so 'heck with the rest of us' eh ? Viva HR676 and CA's SB840.

Goodbye Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest 1%'ers.

[eridani]

161. Single payer PROVIDES vastly better choice of doctors by its very nature

In Canada, you can go to any damned doctor you want. No "pre-approved" lists whatsoever. Granted, that doesn't help people out in the sticks where the nearest doctor is 300 miles away, but rural people here have exactly the same problem.

Private insurance deliberately LIMITS your choice of doctors. The only "choice" they give you is which teeny tiny fragmented risk pool you want to join.

People are being killed by insurance companies, and you are helping them do it.

[EVDebs]

143. HR676 (Medicare for All) and CA's SB840...Underlined, Exclamation Point !

http://www.guaranteedhealthcare.org/legislation/hr-676-conyers/united-states-national-health-insurance-act

[eridani]

159. According to you, they are chomping at the bit for higher taxes instead

That's the only way that insurers will ever cover actual sick people. And even then, they are very likely to take the money and not provide the care. Think Halliburton.

[EVDebs]

61. Maybe the outsourcing and privatizations have gone too far, dontcha think ?

Wall Street is killing Main Street and doesn't seem to give a rat's ass. And these are supposed to be the 'brightest guys in the room'.

[SeattleGirl]

74. Ha! If they are the brightest guys in the room, then lemme outta here!

:scared:

[EVDebs]

142. The movie failed to mention...

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=43

Enron's ties to the other bunch of brightest fellers, the CIA (and that India/Afganistan pipeline etc. stuff). But we already know this gang can't shoot straight.

[eridani]

86. The answer to that is a very simple category switch

People "believe in" public goods like roads, schools, and fire and police protection every bit as much as they believe in free markets for consumer electonics. What we need to do is to get them to put health care in the fire department column instead of in the iPod column.

[ProudDad]

95. You're right

That's exactly what M. Moore is trying to do with his movie and what John Conyers, et all are doing with HR 676.

"put health care in the fire department column instead of in the iPod column"

You've GOT IT...

Pass it on!

[sandnsea]

122. Cops and firefihters earn $45,000 a year

Will doctors?

I agree. There's no reason health care should be seen any differently than fire and police. Except surgery and radiation treatment are a lot more complicated than spraying water on a fire.

[Missy Vixen]

130. You will concede none of our points,

so evidently, you're not interested in any dialogue on solutions you don't propose.

Have a nice day.
Julie

[sandnsea]

136. So typical

Your way or no way. When we get health care reform and it isn't single payer, I will definitely make it a point to tell YOU, I told you so.

[Missy Vixen]

171. Gosh, I might say the same thing to you

>Your way or no way.<

Considering the fact that everyone on this thread has essentially said the same things, I'm a bit mystified at your personal attack.

>When we get health care reform and it isn't single payer, I will definitely make it a point to tell YOU, I told you so.<

That's right. I'm sure that'll be quite a day for you as well. It's always a great thing to celebrate the misery of others, as long as you're right!

Julie

[sandnsea]

172. Misery is everyone seeing a doctor??

Clearly you don't know what it is to not have health care if you think seeing a doctor is misery unless it's with a single payer plan.

[crappyjazz]

146. Doctors in Canada make way more that $45,000

as in England and elsewhere ... chuck that scratchy ol' Ronald Reagan record and go see Sicko

[eridani]

163. In Saskatchewan, doctors saw their incomes go up by 30%

--after single payer passed there. Their gross incomes will be lower under single payer, but their net incomes most likely higher due to lower expenses.

I think that people would prefer single payer to having their taxes raised myself, which is what you are proposing.

[ProudDad]

88. The government would NOT be "running health care"

The government would manage a Single Payer fund that will pay for health CARE (NOT "health insurance"). The overhead would shrink from the current up to 30 percent that the health insurance leeches get now to the 3% that Medicare costs.

The rest of the money will go for Health Care instead of profits. Novel concept, eh?

Hospitals, docs, nurses, etc. will all still be the private non-profit or (if they survive - I hope not) for profit enterprises they are now.

The VA IS socialized medicine (as is all military health care). Single payer will be more like Medicare for All -- everyone pays a fair share into the fund and the fund pays for EVERYTHING...as it is in the civilized world.

You're missing the biggest problem -- Private, for profit health care DOES NOT WORK and cannot EVER work. That's the message the rest of the industrialized world has already gotten.

[sandnsea]

121. Did Michael Moore explain that?

Don't argue with me. Tell the 60% who aren't going to differentiate between the government dictating what treatments they will and won't pay for; and the government running health care.

[EVDebs]

168. You said it, Dad ! nt

[Selatius]

96. The government hasn't run VA health in a while. It was PRIVATIZED to a HALLIBURTON SUBSIDIARY. n/t

[sandnsea]

120. It's ALWAYS been crap n/t

[Selatius]

165. Well, at Walter Reed apparently it's even worse when it was privatized.

I know full well how shitty those facilities were for returning vets from Vietnam. Should they be better? Of course, but obviously the privatization route isn't the answer.

[fazoolius_2006]

116. I agree

If the government can't even get it right for the soldiers, how in the world are we supposed to think they will get it right for the masses? I have lived in countries with universal health care and the quality is by far nowhere near what we have in the US.

[dkofos]

31. I saw it last week & I loved it.

I hope this wakes up the American people to the fact that we are being screwed
by the health care industry.

I hope they really pay attention to the attitudes of the Canadians, Brits, French, Germans, and even the Cubans
with regard to their free health care.

[avrdream]

99. Even better: the Australian system.

I have been down here for 2 1/2 years and am impressed with what I see. People may wait for surgery but only the surgery that is deemed "elective". If you have some acute problem here, you go right in the door with less wait than typical in most American ERs. Agreed, taxes are higher here to allow something like this but it appears to work.

My cousin is a general practitioner in London and has a few minor complaints but thinks, for the most part, it works just fine.

I got so sick of the insurance companies dictating how I practiced medicine that I moved down here to try out the Australian system for a while. I actually get to practice the medicine I was trained to practice.

[flamingyouth]

32. Hey Julie

I can't wait to see it.

Hope you feel better soon. :hug:

My health insurance premiums are going up 24% as of August 1 but I'm lucky I even have coverage since I've had two surgeries in the past seven months, plus chemo and untold prescription costs. Still, my out-of-pocket expenses are astronomical. My health care costs are second only to the mortgage in our household expenses.

I really hope that this film stirs up more people other than folks like us, who have already been mad for a long time.

Thanks for the post. Recommended. :hug:

[EVDebs]

33. CA's SB840 supporters need to have showings of this w/legislators

and anyone else out there needs to know that the insurance/phama industries need changing, fast.

I anticipate another Schwartzennegar veto of SB840 and a subsequent ballot initiative to put it before the people. By then, CA's people (note: not the Governor) will be showing the nation how to do healthcare in the USofA.

SB840
http://www.healthcareforall.org/sb840.html

and

http://www.healthcareforall.org/kuehl.html

"“California is leading the nation on health care reform with passage of SB 840,” stated Senator Kuehl. “This is the gold standard for health reform and the only way to achieve the kind of health care system that Californians want and deserve”."

GOT THAT ? THE ONLY WAY !

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pooka Fey]

36. K&R

[LibertyorDeath]

38. A must see for all !!

Caught it last night also.

His best movie so far!

[orleans]

39. thanks for the low down. hope you're feeling better. n/t

[pacalo]

40. Very "artful" summation of the movie -- I am so anxious to see this movie!

[Enthusiast]

41. Wonderful!

I want to see it! My wife wants to see it!

The evil ones are coming up with a powerful response right now. They will launch it at an opportune moment. They stand to loose too much money if we take the profit out of healthcare. But profit is the problem.

[L0oniX]

42. "Sicko" download links and info

Moore is ok with "Sicko" downloads ...get it here ...link
Posted by L0oniX in General Discussion: Politics
Sat Jun 23rd 2007, 07:32 PM
available here: http://pop.thousandrobots.com / and various other sites ...search "Sicko" on Google.

Moore's stance on file-sharing is that it's okay so as long people aren't profiting from it. He feels that the message behind his films are what's most important, and that he does well enough financially that he's more concerned with spreading ideas than he is with ensuring that everybody properly pays to hear them.

[ringtailtooter]

46. Saw it in Sarasota last night, also - Michael's best to date!

Hopefully this will finally get people off their tails and try to do something to about this deplorable situation.
Coming out of the theater, the local media was there getting people's reactions, a group handing out fliers for support of Rep. Conyers' bill H.R. 676 and the police. Their presence was somewhat troubling, aside from harassing the guy passing out fliers, were they there in case of some sort of demonstration arose or for intimidation and fear factor?
Anyway, it's a must see.

[graywarrior]

50. Welcome to DU. I am right down the road from you in Nokomis.

I'm going to see the film on Tuesday or Wednesday.

[cyclezealot]

105. what do you need a permit to pass out flyers

in Sarasota.

[johnnyrocket]

47. RIght on! I saw it, and agree, the movie is powerful....

...just waiting for the wing-nut 'criticism' and the massive lobbying smear campaign ready to attack.

[Catherine Vincent]

51. Thanks for this wonderful review, Julie!

I plan to see it next week when it opens nationwide and I can't wait. And please go to the doctor and take care of yourself! :hi:

[kiteinthewind]

59. Saw it last night in the KC area. I was literally nauseated when we left. Just plain sick.

I am a nurse and I know this crap goes on, but seeing the cumulative effect of the different stories was just too much. When he was talking to the gentlemen in Britain who said something to the effect that Americans don't fight because they keep us in fear-I almost yelled out 'YES'. Fear is driving this country. I was also impressed with the references to all the myths about nationalized health care, particularly in Canada, and was glad MM disproved that by just going around asking!! Also, the American Society of Registered Nurses also put out a press release that they fact checked MM's claims and he is correct (sort of beat the right wing attacks to the punch!). Here is the release-I may have actually heard about this on DU, so sorry if someone already made note of this! Oh, GREAT write up, JulieRB! :thumbsup: :hi:
http://www.prlog.org/10020507-does-michael-moore-sicko-have-it-facts-straight.html

[peacetheonlyway]

60. so sorry your sick

I had the upper respiratory thing for many years.

if you want to be back to normal in 3 days, go to a healthfood store and buy golden seal in the capsule form, and echinaccea in the tincture form, both will cost about 10 bux each.

then, take 2 times a day and you should feel immediately relief by day 2 and the whole thing gone by day 3.

believe me I used to take antibiotics and penicillin and neither of the 'western medicine' worked and only these things worked. so I hope it works for you.

i want to see Moore's film. I was told some of my footage of andy stephenson was in the movie so want to go see if that is true.

can't wait to see his next creation. the man is a genius. i only seek to make movies as honest as moore.

later and thanks for your post.

[LiberalHeart]

62. Why did you go to a "packed theater"....

...with a "respiratory thing" going on?

[SeattleGirl]

98. If it is the same kind of "respiratory thing" I have going on right now,

it's not contagious. Just extremely uncomfortable (to say the least) for those of us who have it.

[Missy Vixen]

118. I have respiratory problems

I'm starting to wonder if they are allergies, due to the fact that my symptoms significantly decreased after taking Airborne anti-allergy stuff.

Why did you feel it appropriate to flame me?

Julie

[LiberalHeart]

128. There's a big difference between a flame and a question.

If you think asking a question about your admitted behavior is flaming you, perhaps you think that behavior was flame-worthy. I was simply astonished that you would go into a packed theater among people -- many of whom you yourself said have no health insurance -- when you are ill, and asked why you did so. It was clear in your earlier post and in your response to me now that you really don't know what's wrong. You're guessing. I think (not sure without going back and reading) in an earlier post you even suggested that you might need antibiotics, but don't want to take them. I hope your problem is nothing more than allergies, for your sake and everyone exposed to you.

[Missy Vixen]

132. Just another example of "no good deed goes unpunished"!

>I hope your problem is nothing more than allergies, for your sake and everyone exposed to you.<

You know, I responded. The more I think about it, though, since you are so desperately concerned that I'm a one-woman Typhoid Mary, I'll give you the rundown.

I am allergic to cigarette smoke. I was at a gathering a week before at which, unfortunately for me, there were several people smoking. I have been fighting a sore and irritated throat since. I'm not coughing up green stuff, running a fever, or exhibiting any other signs of contagion besides what I've mentioned here. The anti-allergy stuff I took seems to be doing the job, and I was toying with a visit to the doctor to rule out any other possible reasons for not feeling well.

I hope that you're relieved.
Julie

[LiberalHeart]

166. I guess I missed the good deed, but....

I do hope your health is okay. Once you were away from the smoke, any allergy to it should have lifted. My guess would be that it wasn't smoke that was making your throat sore/irritated so long afterward. If it's an allergy and you feel you're having an on-going fight with it, I'd guess that it's something in your daily environment that's causing you to react. Maybe something new in your home or car or workplace? I have lung disease (my life is literally at risk if I catch a bug from someone else) as well as allergies. I know from experience it can be a difficult task to track down what causes one to react. After three years, several hospital stays and thousands in prescriptions, I finally figured out it was the toner in my laser printer that was making me so ill. I wish you luck figuring out what's triggering your symptoms.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

63. K & R, thanks for the spot on description. EVERYONE should see this.

It's the spark...we are the fuse!!! MKJ

[Mind_your_head]

72. I mostly cried watching the movie ....... and you are 100% ABSOLUTELY CORRECT

and at this point, we have no other choice -- they will have to go. Every last one of them.

.... referring to the politicians, OUR 'dear leaders' who put us in this AWFUL position and have put THEIR profit over OUR benefit! And ANYONE who supports these so called 'leaders' at this point ~ with ALL that is known about how they've used and abused US ~ is a MORON!

[eridani]

85. Those in the Puget Sound area--please write an LTE to the Seattle Times

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003760499_moore24.html

Staff members of America's Health Insurance Plans, the industry's leading trade group, handed out news releases at Moore's events last week emphasizing the need for "a uniquely American solution" and raising the specter of "long waits for rationed care."

Health Care America, a group financed in part by pharmaceutical and hospital companies, placed an advertisement in a Capitol Hill newspaper stating: "In America, you wait in line to see a movie. In government-run health care systems, you wait to see a doctor."

[e-mail]

My response--

How nice that the trade group America's Health Insurance Plans wants a uniquely American solution to the problems of our health care system. The real problem is that we need a solution for the people of America, not for the insurance companies of America. Their "solution" is to have the government force everyone to buy policies from the same companies who turn down our claims every chance they get right now, and make us pay more taxes for this dubious privilege to boot. Given that our overall health care expenditures are already twice the developed world's average, it ought to be obvious that we are already paying for universal health care--we just aren't getting it.

The very companies that are now rationing our health care by refusing coverage to those with pre-existing conditions and routinely denying claims are now trying to scare us with their assertion that actually providing health care to everybody is what is really meant by the term "rationing". Don't fall for it.

[SeattleGirl]

97. Hey, thanks for pointing this article out. I get the Times, but

apparently missed seeing this article.

You wrote a good LTTE, btw/

[Missy Vixen]

119. Eridani, great letter!

Why am I not surprised that the health insurance lobby is out in full force for this?

LOL,
Julie

[GenDem]

111. I don't go to the doctor very often

We try every natural remedy there is, and go to the doctor as a last result. Not that I don't love my doctor -- he's a very compassionate caregiver, who actually promotes more of a natural solution to health and wellness.

When I have gone, I've noticed a new trend that occurs every time he writes me a prescription. I go to the pharmacist to have it filled, and the pharmacist comes out to tell me that the insurance company has either denied the prescription, or is limiting the amount.

I recently went to the doctor for unbearable hot flashes and insomnia due to menopause. I tried every kind of natural sleep aid and nothing worked, and the lack of sleep was beginning to detrimentally affect my work and well being. I went to fill the prescription and the pharmacist came out and said that the insurance company will only allow half a month supply of the sleep aid. In other words I can have fifteen pills as opposed to a full months supply. These bastards are deciding what and how many pills I can have, after my doctor diagnosed and prescribed what he feels is the right course of action for me. I was really pissed off.

I'm looking forward to seeing this film. It does not get released in our area until the 29th.

I hope your upper respiratory thingy is resolved as easily as possible.

Thanks, Julie.

[kaygore]

151. My only criticism of SiCKO

My only criticism of SiCKO is that it opens with Bush and his famous (infamous?) quote about OBGYNs not being able to "practice their love of women." I wish that he had not opened with this as it may turn off some Republicans who need to keep their minds open as they watch the movie.

Health care is not a Democratic or Republican issue but a people issue. We must put aside our differences if this is to be addressed.

[helderheid]

160. PLEASE HAND OUT THIS FLYER AT SICKO:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1178313

[EVDebs]

169. HR 676 - Conyers and in Calif., SB 840 - Kuehl are the single payer bills to cure the ills ! nt

[KansDem]

167. My wife and I are planning to go when it opens this Friday (June 29)

Thanks for the review...I've seen a couple of very brief clips so I'm primed and raring to go.

Sorry to hear about your condition. I wonder if I might have the same thing. I've been suffering from a kind of cold (I think) because my ears have been stopped up for a couple of weeks now. I can barely hear anything and it's driving my family crazy! ....eh?!?!...eh?!?!