So......it appears "Scooter" is leaking some Big Stuff on Darth Vader..

[KoKo]

Read this passage from the Blockbuster WaPo Part I Series on Cheney and the paragraphs before and after that I couldn't post because of limits...and see if this doesn't sound like Scooter leaking. The description of Cheney's reaction in the Bunker to the planes hitting is chilling and who else (present) would have had the ability to note (in notebooks) the impression of Cheney with such vivid detail other than Scooter the author and sensitive guy who is about ready to don his prison garb because there hasn't been an "intervention."

----------------

From the Article:

A 'Triumvirate' and Its Leader

In a bunker beneath the East Wing of the White House, Cheney locked his eyes on CNN, chin resting on interlaced fingers. He was about to watch, in real time, as thousands were killed on Sept. 11, 2001.

Previous accounts have described Cheney's adrenaline-charged evacuation to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center that morning, a Secret Service agent on each arm. They have not detailed his reaction, 22 minutes later, when the south tower of the World Trade Center collapsed.

"There was a groan in the room that I won't forget, ever," one witness said. "It seemed like one groan from everyone" -- among them Rice; her deputy, Stephen J. Hadley; economic adviser Lawrence B. Lindsey; counselor Matalin; Cheney's chief of staff, Libby; and the vice president's wife.

Cheney made no sound. "I remember turning my head and looking at the vice president, and his expression never changed," said the witness, reading from a notebook of observations written that day. Cheney closed his eyes against the image for one long, slow blink.
Three people who were present, not all of them admirers, said they saw no sign then or later of the profound psychological transformation that has often been imputed to Cheney. What they saw, they said, was extraordinary self-containment and a rapid shift of focus to the machinery of power. While others assessed casualties and the work of "first responders," Cheney began planning for a conflict that would call upon lawyers as often as soldiers and spies.

more at........
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/cheney/

[Cass]

1. Interesting theory, KoKo1.

If he's the one leaking this stuff then I sure wish he would spill his guts about what went on with Valerie Plame

edit: spelling.

[Nickster]

9. Never gonna happen. He's just reminding Darth that he COULD give up a lot more details. Helping

along his appeal for help from the admin so to speak.

[Mythsaje]

2. The Man Who Would Stand Behind The King

and whisper evil into his ear.

SO not a surprise.

On edit:

Oooh. Another nickname for Cheney. Wormtongue. :evilgrin:

[elehhhhna]

13. Hell's Subcontractor

[calimary]

54. Good one!

:thumbsup:

That description gave me chills. VERY lizard-like the way he's described - the almost non-existent blinking, the stone face. Geez...

[speakclearly]

73. Am I missing something?

This observation of Cheney looks complimentary. And it sounds a lot more like Colin Powell that it does Scooter. This is about the time that Powell may be gearing up for publication of a book. He has been out about 2 years now and it gives him "space".

[originalpckelly]

3. That's because the rest of the room was surprised and Cheney wasn't.

[Nikki Stone1]

8. I agree

:kick:

[Whoa_Nelly]

10. Thought the same thing

Was what he was about to watch something he expected?

[originalpckelly]

12. All these controlled demolition people think al-Qaeda didn't do it, I think they did.

As to why al-Qaeda did it, I think Dick knows a bit about that.

It's possible that al-Qaeda's membership is being indirectly manipulated by Tricky Dick P.2.

[AntiFascist]

39. "All these controlled demolition people"??

Perhaps you aren't paying close enough attention.

Many people think the "shadow government" is responsible, which technically lets the official government off the hook. MIHOP or LIHOP it doesn't really matter if they were cooperating with each other. WTC security was headed by a Kuwaiti backed company with the President's brother as a director. Kuwait is closely linked to Saudi Arabia, understand the connection?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaber_Al-Ahmad_Al-Jaber_Al-Sabah

There are many others.

On edit: One of the main reasons Bush Sr. created the Shadow Government, by privatizing parts of the CIA and helping the Saudis with their own military and intelligence services, was to allow "shadowy" CIA operations to continue without falling under US legal oversight.

[originalpckelly]

48. I think it's silly and overly complicated to say it was a controlled demolition.

Mainly, because I know how controlled demolitions work, and the people who pull down buildings do NOT start from the top down, as was seen with the explosions on 9/11.

I can even prove why they do it that way, because they want the most force to crush the floors, and taking out the load bearing columns/walls at the lowest level possible in a structure increases the amount of force, as there is more mass being accelerated by the force of gravity.

A simple, classical physics equation can prove why it is done from the bottom up:
force = mass * acceleration

Force is the amount of force that crushes the lower floors in this situation, while the mass is the floors left intact that are designed to crush the lower floors, and acceleration is the acceleration of gravity which is around 9.8 meters per second squared. It's relatively impossible to change the acceleration of gravity to increase the force of the upper floors, so varying the acceleration won't work. The only way to increase the force is to increase the amount of mass being accelerated, the only way to do that in this situation is to change the number of floors crashing down on the lower floors. That is done by selecting the lowest floor possible floor to start the explosions on.

In addition, the gas clouds and broken glass do not appear all around the building, but only in a single location somewhat off center. Knowing how the building was supported, I know it would have been necessary place charges all around the building or at least in a large enough number of locations to sufficiency cause failure in the outer load bearing wall.

Finally, and most importantly, there is a much simpler explanation for the explosions, that they were caused by a piston like build up of pressure inside the building, and that pressure was relieved through specific off center passages from the internal core of the structure to the outer office space, as seen in the following diagram of a typical WTC tower floor:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/World_Trade_Center_9-11_Attacks_Illustration_with_Bird%27s-eye_Impact_Locations.svg

You will note in the following images that the clouds of smoke and glass debris appear to originate from windows that are off center in much the same location of those passages:


This originated from a man named Richard Lethin (the annotations as you will observe were created by myself) and these images are perhaps some of the best available. More are available here:
http://www.reservoir.com/extra/wtc/

Accelerating at 9.8 meters per second squared, in only 10 seconds the floors would have been traveling around 98 meters per second or 220 mph, which is pretty damn fast if you ask me. I know that trains have to cope with the buildup of pressure ahead of them traveling in the same range of speed in a tunnel, it's basically like the downward stroke of a simple piston bicycle pump.

I suspect the falling floors caused a massive increase in pressure that would have caused explosions at windows on the surface of the buildings that were most directly connected to the core of the building, such as those hallways.

[karlrschneider]

53. There you go again...confusing the tinfoilers with facts and science.

:silly:

[originalpckelly]

55. While their arguments about a controlled demolition are total BS...

I do not think it is beyond the realm of possibility that the people with the most obvious motive somehow let these attacks happen or even orchestrated them using these al-Qaeda operatives as pawns.

We know someone did it, so we know that it's possible for people to do that kind of thing, we also know how they've abused 9/11.

However, as to any direct evidence linking Dick and George and their little evil group with 9/11, I think that evidence is thin but thickening. The interesting thread about the FBI possibly believing at one time that Osama himself had planned those flights out of the USA, that's very striking, and it comes from a conservative organization and indirectly out of the FBI files.

[karlrschneider]

56. Oh, I absolutely can easily believe some of the PNACers in the gov't knew

something was...in the wind, as it were. I just get exasperated by the conspiracy nuts who unnecessarily multiply theories. There are more than enough legitimate questions with as yet no good answers without getting nuts about it.
That's all I'm sayin'.

;-)

[originalpckelly]

57. Indeed.

I wish there was some way to collect evidence about this to finally answer these questions. There must be some way to find out, no one is ever perfect at committing crimes. They always fuck it up somehow. Somehow people on our side need to find out where they fucked up and start pulling the loose thread from there.

[AntiFascist]

59. Your posts have become increasingly insulting....

I sense frustration or perhaps panic.

As one of your so-called "conspiracy nuts" all I'm doing is calling into question the official theory of why the towers fell so perfectly while obliterating everything in the upper floors so thoroughly. originalpckelly has at least provided a sound explanation together with some evidence countering the demolition theory. All you can do is name call and label people. That's not very scientific.

[truth2power]

75. 9/11 was a conspiracy,any way you look at it...

So, which "conspiracy nuts" are you referring to?





False-flag.

[Marr]

67. Considering the PNAC crowd's connections,

collusion on something like this could've been as simple as casually mentioning during lunch that security was lax, or that we'd be conducting an exercise on this specific scenario on the eleventh. If there was indeed some coordination here, and I rather suspect there was, then it's likely to be of the untraceable variety.

I'm with you on the controlled explosion claims as well- I think they're unnecessarily complex and just don't make logical sense. They're also a major distraction from the pertinent and basic questions that have yet to be answered.

[Chemical Bill]

61. No, he's avoiding the premise that Cheney knew...

by talking about controlled demolition.

Bill

[AntiFascist]

62. Exactly...

the people supporting official explanations often focus on one small detail (citing their own expertise) while they ignore the bigger picture. There are many, many small pieces of evidence together with the fact of who was running security and the security shutdowns prior to 9/11 which lead to that bigger picture.

I have argued in the past that focusing too much on crazy conspiracy theories can detract from the fact of how the administration capitalized on 9/11 and lied us into war. On the other hand, if some groups working together with our government were actively involved in the attacks, then this is a crime beyond all imagination and should most definitely be investigated further. As a former CIA analyst recently stated: the official 9/11 investigatation report is a flagrant coverup, the question is - what are they covering up?

[OnyxCollie]

81. Yes, I had a debate on the last 9/11 thread, "How the Towers Fell."

The premise that was being argued was that bin Laden expert John O'Neil would have refuted Chimpy's "They hate us for our freedoms." explanation for the 9/11 attacks. The person I argued with felt he/she won because I couldn't prove that O'Neil, a bin Laden expert, would have refuted an obviously disingenuous statement, while missing the point that the POTUS made a statement that our freedoms were the cause of the 9/11 attacks, not U.S. policies, support for Israel, bases in Saudi Arabia, etc.

[sendero]

66. i don't have an opinion...

.. about controlled demo, but if a plane hits on a top floor they couldn't very well blow it up at the bottom.

So much for "logic".

[defendandprotect]

68. Basement first -- then CRACKED the TOP -- SOP

As we know from Rodriguez . . . it was SOP . . . the basements went first so that the buildings could fall into their footprints --

And then, they CRACKED THE TOP -- which is SOP

Fire will not bring down a steel skyscraper -- and, let's try to keep in mind, the fuel burned off in the first 10 minutes, there were no significant fires BELOW the floors hit --

AND, FIREMEN were saying that the fires on the floor where the planes hit would be easily brought under control.

You have to ignore about everything said by witnesses and reality in order no to see demolition -- which can be seen with the naked eye.

Additionally, those who work in demolition and there are about a dozen notable families, say that this was highly professional with very sophisticated methods being used which caused them to think it was a military job.

[originalpckelly]

87. Actually, I think that's a rather silly statement. The buildings had been compromised structurally..

before the fires even heated any steel. You are talking about a structure that has only burned, not had a plane ram into it taking out a large number of support columns in the process.

[AntiFascist]

89. I hate to see this turn into a "demolition" thread, but....

if anyone watched the CBS 9/11 documentary, which contained mostly footage from the French journalists, it was clear that the firemen saw the results of a blast blowing out windows in the lobby of the first tower that was hit. If fact, didn't the eyewitnesses remark that it was a much stronger blast than could be explained by jet fuel flowing out of the elevator shaft?

[originalpckelly]

90. In only ten seconds of falling, the floors may have been traveling around 200 mph...

now of course, because there was resistance from the stuff the floor had to crush as they pancaked, and they had to break through the supports, it might have been slower, but you get the idea.

I wonder how much each floor weighed, I'm going to make the educated guess that it was way more than 1 ton. Can you imagine the energy of something even just 1 ton moving at even 100 mph?

[jollyreaper2112]

92. fucking christ, here we go again.

Ok, you're on the controlled demo side of the debate. Here's a question: if you already have the building rigged to go, why involve airplanes and make the whole thing more complicated? Terrorists have already tried once before with a bomb in the basement, why could this not be explained as a better-planned second attempt? Why complicate it by crashing planes into the building, planes that would sever the control wires leading to the charges?

[OnyxCollie]

97. Fear is the weapon.

There is fear in thinking that any plane you board can be hijacked and used as a missile. The attacks were timed to allow the media to document the event. Blowing up the building would have excluded the media from capturing the event, thereby reducing the fear it would have generated.

Long line of research on public health campaigns suggest that fear appeals are more effective at changing behavior, especially when an appeal offers recipients something to do to mitigate the danger.

-snip-

Fear breaks a person out of routines, directs attention to relevant portions of the environment, and activates thinking about alternative courses of action (Brader, 2005).

One of the most pervasive and powerful effects of threat is to increase intolerance, prejudice, ethnocentrism, and xenophobia, regardless of whether threat is defined as a widely-acknowledged external force or a subjective, perceived state.

-snip-

Americans who perceived a high future threat of terrorism not only supported aggressive action against the enemy, they were more likely to negatively stereotype Arabs and support restrictive immigration and intensified surveillance policies directed at Arabs and Arab-Americans, in line with the expected effect of threat on out-group vilification (Huddy, 2005).

Unbalanced media coverage enhances the climate of intimidation which terrorists seek to generate. Not only does this aid the perpetrator's objectives, but it engenders pressures for counterproductive governmental repression and causes undesirable social consequences (Bassiouni, 1981).

Fear appeals do not merely unsettle existing choices, but rather push them in a specific direction. Fear ads are dramatically more effective at persuading viewers, with more than one in four voting for the sponsor even though they initially were indifferent or leaned toward the opponent (Brader, 2005).

[jollyreaper2112]

99. I have to call bullshit

There is fear in thinking that any plane you board can be hijacked and used as a missile. The attacks were timed to allow the media to document the event. Blowing up the building would have excluded the media from capturing the event, thereby reducing the fear it would have generated.


They could just have easily called the media an hour before the detonations with a threat "We threaten to blow up the WTC unless certain demands are met. If anyone tries to evacuate the building, we will blow them up before the deadline."

If the hijackers wanted to assure maximum media impact, they would have not left filming the impact of the first plane to chance. Given the uncontrollable variables on 9-11, there was no telling which plane would hit first and what interval there would be between the two. I'm not sure if they even had the confidence that the buildings would collapse from the impacts, that would be a question to pose to the organizers if Gore ever captures them.

You are right in that when someone is selling terrorism, the visuals are the deliverables. Only a small portion of the entire nation sees the attack first-hand but everyone else sees the recordings of it time and time again. The film of that attack is what fills the cultural memory. If the 1993 attack were successful, i.e. toppling one tower into the other with total collapse as was the original plan, the lack of footage of the attack would mean that the operation would still be a half-failure. What's more terrifying, seeing a decapitated body or some sick jihadi fuck sawing the head off of a live, screaming victim?

Back to my original premise: if the hypothetical "demolition bombers of 9-11" wanted to give the media time to film the event and terrify the shit out of America, all they had to do was this: phone in a bomb threat, wait 20 minutes, blow the first tower, wait another 20 minutes, blow the second one. Airplanes would just complicate everything. I would also note that rigging a building for controlled demolition is complicated and invasive as hell and people would notice. If the terrorists wanted maximum damage, they would just sheer support columns at ground level and try and topple the buildings like trees. The sheering force would probably see a partial topple and then have everything fall apart and come down vertically but it would sure as hell be messier than what we actually had. And the last point, for those who say "the towers didn't collapse like I thought they would," I tell you we have no visual reference for how skyscrapers collapse because it doesn't generally happen. That would be like Yellowstone going up and people saying "Gee, that doesn't look like how I think a supervolcano should look." You have no basis for an opinion about how a supervolcano eruption should look, it's never happened in recorded human history.

[OnyxCollie]

100. I call bullshit on your bullshit.

If you Official Conspiracy Theorists™ have trouble accepting the logistics of planting explosives in the WTC by Team Bushco, how could you possibly believe a bunch of Arabs that have overstayed their visas could first: Procure enough explosives to blow up the WTC, and second: Plant said explosives in the WTC without drawing attention? THAT'S way too complicated a plot. There would be far too many people involved. Do you think that would work at the Pentagon? Also, It would be difficult for bushco to claim, "No one could have anticipated they would blow up the buildings."

Additionally, where's the money to be made? SOMEBODY made a lot of scratch off the put options on the American Airlines stock.

Many bombs in the WTC would likely jeopardize Larry Silverstein's insurance claim. (I'm guessing an insurance company would investigate who, how, where and when numerous explosives were placed in the building that had a 3.8 billion dollar terrorism insurance claim. It might be more difficult for Silverstein to claim two occurrences to double his money on the insurance, too.)

We have no visual reference for how skyscrapers collapse because it doesn't generally happen? Bullshit. Casino hotels have been knocked down in Vegas for years. They weren't as tall as the WTC, but they look (and fall) just the same.

Using planes creates more fear in people. Not everyone works in a skyscraper in NYC, and would not be subject to a bombing. But millions of people fly, for either work or travel. All those people would be concerned that they might be hijacked and used as a missile as well.

[jollyreaper2112]

101. and I call bullshit on your call of bullshit on my shit

If you Official Conspiracy Theorists™ have trouble accepting the logistics of planting explosives in the WTC by Team Bushco, how could you possibly believe a bunch of Arabs that have overstayed their visas could first: Procure enough explosives to blow up the WTC, and second: Plant said explosives in the WTC without drawing attention? THAT'S way too complicated a plot. There would be far too many people involved. Do you think that would work at the Pentagon? Also, It would be difficult for bushco to claim, "No one could have anticipated they would blow up the buildings."


I don't think the towers were knocked down with explosives, I believe in the planes I saw crash into them. You're the one promoting the explosives angel.

Additionally, where's the money to be made? SOMEBODY made a lot of scratch off the put options on the American Airlines stock.

Yup. My bet is people associated with the plot. But who? I'm inclined to believe LIHOP but I think MIHOP is too far-fetched, too complicated, too likely to fail. What I don't believe is the controlled demo theory.

We have no visual reference for how skyscrapers collapse because it doesn't generally happen? Bullshit. Casino hotels have been knocked down in Vegas for years. They weren't as tall as the WTC, but they look (and fall) just the same.


Not in the least. Those casino hotels are not 100+ story skyscrapers.

Using planes creates more fear in people. Not everyone works in a skyscraper in NYC, and would not be subject to a bombing. But millions of people fly, for either work or travel. All those people would be concerned that they might be hijacked and used as a missile as well.

And that makes sense for using planes, I just don't see how a demolition fits with the scenario. It's just too outlandish and stupid, especially in light of scientific engineering analysis by people unaffiliated with the federal government.

[OnyxCollie]

102. In light of recent events, I lay down my arms.

I will respect your opinions of the events of 9/11 and will not attempt to persuade you to believe otherwise. I am interested to hear your thoughts on 9/11. I hope that you would allow me to ask a few questions of you:

How do you define the differences between LIHOP and MIHOP?

What circumstance(s) in MIHOP do you not believe? Why?

What circumstance(s) in LIHOP do you believe? Why?

You stated that you were inclined to believe LIHOP. What circumstances lead you to believe the Bush Administration would allow a terrorist attack to occur in the United States?

Do you believe the Bush Administration knew the WTC would be hit?

Do you believe the Bush Administration would invent ways of using 9/11 to their advantage?

If the towers had not fallen, how serious would the affect of 9/11 have been on the collective psyche of the nation?

Do you believe action(s) taken by the Bush Administration using 9/11 as a pretext served a hidden agenda? If so, what action(s)? What agenda?

Given what the Bush Administration has done using 9/11 as a pretext, do you believe they would have accomplished the same things if the towers had not fallen?

I thank you for your time.

[OnyxCollie]

84. Nope.

The pressure would have escaped through the top. Mythbusters had a show a while back to see if a subwoofer could blow the windows out of a car. They made a giant subwoofer, powered by the driveshaft, and stuck it into the car. The subwoofer should have blown out the windows, but the pressure escaped through all the leaks in the car.

[Morgana LaFey]

44. Well, here's what I want to know: just when did

Osama go OFF the CIA payroll????? Or did he ever?

[originalpckelly]

49. Well, that presupposes he was ever on the payroll. Osama has/had enough money...

from his family businesses in Saudi Arabia to pay for his activities in Afghanistan against the Soviets.

Now as to whether Osama co-ordinated with the CIA or the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence, I think that's very likely.

As to why they are co-ordinating, I do not know, though I would suggest it probably does have something to do with Dick making these grandiose claims of power.

[AntiFascist]

60. There's also the question of coordinating with the Saudi Royals...

there is evidence that money was paid to OBL so that he would go after the Americans instead of attacking the Saudi leadership, in essence he may have been sponsored by them.

[Morgana LaFey]

93. The CIA created bin Laden

Are you not aware of that? If he didn't get paid, he got something, and AFAIC it's a moot point whether or not a wealthy man did get actual physical payment from the CIA. It's pretty well-known, I think, that he was a CIA tool .

[PSPS]

15. Me too

The account reminds me of the scene in "Rear Window" where Lars Thorwald (Raymond Burr) doesn't bother to come to his window to see what everyone else is shouting about (the dead dog.)

[Whoa_Nelly]

20. Nice comparison

Rear Window is one of my all-time favorite movies :hi:

[soothsayer]

21. yep, prolly saying a prayer to satan or just having a lovely orgasmic moment

with his eyes closed, incredibly self satisfied

[seemslikeadream]

26. post #25

:thumbsup:

[cooolandrew]

71. A biography on Rumsfeld said that his reaction was pretty similar too. Total indifference.

[elehhhhna]

91. Chimpy, too. Makes ya wonder.

[acmavm]

4. The Washington Post? Hmmmm. Why do I wonder how this is going to

turn out? Because no matter how bad things are, no matter how corrupt this administration is shown to be, they always, somehow, end up showing them in a 'better' light than they deserve.

I guess it's wait and see time.

edit: I guess I should give an example...

<snip>

Cheney is not, by nearly every inside account, the shadow president of popular lore. Bush has set his own course, not always in directions Cheney preferred. The president seized the helm when his No. 2 steered toward trouble, as Bush did, in time, on military commissions. Their one-on-one relationship is opaque, a vital unknown in assessing Cheney's impact on events. The two men speak of it seldom, if ever, with others. But officials who see them together often, not all of them admirers of the vice president, detect a strong sense of mutual confidence that Cheney is serving Bush's aims.

<snip>

[HCE SuiGeneris]

5. Not that I hadn't expected as much from dick, but damn, that article is chilling. n/t

[slowry]

6. They left the part out, where he rapped his fingers together.

"Eeeeeexxxxxxcccccellent..."

[IChing]

23. "Now for the next stage"

"The anthrax must be mailed to coward the congress."


I thought you were thinking of this line when you mentioned "Eeeeeexxxxxxcccccellent..."

Count Dooku: I have good news for you, my Lord. War has begun.

Darth Sidious: Excellent. Everything is going as planned.

[Botany]

7. Almost like he (Cheney) knew the towers would fall.

Remember Cheney & Rummy were running war games on the morning of 9/11/01.
The war games simulated the use of hijacked planes as weapons of mass destruction.
The air space over Washington D.C. and N.Y.C. is the most highly protected and watched
in the world .... how could 3 planes turn off their transponders and turn around and fly
more than hour with out being attacked?

I used to NEVER believe in "they were behind 9/11 stories" but it seems to me that
the 9/11 attacks were the equivlent of the Reichstag Fire that Hitler used as an
excuse to suspend the rule of law.

http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/hist/fire.html

[TwilightGardener]

14. I don't want to believe the conspiracies, but something about Cheney's

described reaction suggests to me an "All according to plan--let's begin" moment.

[Botany]

18. The odds that on 9/11 our fighter cover was off having war games ....

.... that simulated hijacked planes flying into buildings are staggering.

Cheney's level of evil might be on par w/ Pol Pot, Hitler, and Stalin. Right
now he is urging a war w/ nuke strikes on Iran. The very country he set up
"off shore branches" of Haliburton so as to keep doing business w/ because
of U.S. laws that limited dealings w/ Iran.

Somehow it is all making sense .... his Energy meetings in March of 2001 with
his Texas oil friends & the Saudis .... @ which Iraqi oil reserves might have come up.
Now Saudi Arabia is no longer able to meet it's oil contracts w/ Japan which might
mean that it's oil reserves are in decline so Iraq now has the largest proven
oil reserves of which some might be going through Saudi Arabia.



notice the pipeline?

Paul O'Neil stated that he saw maps of Iraqi oil fields on Cheney's desk in March of 2001.

[WinkyDink]

31. Coupled with Bush's TOTAL LACK of response, not even as much as a bowed head,

a la' Michael Corleone when he realized Fredo was the traitor.

NO RESPONSE from either man. Did YOU have no response?

To me, such abnormality = pre-knowledge. And THAT perforce equals TREASON.

[Botany]

36. we have winner

and this too goes to why bush couldn't speak to the 9/11 congressional hearings
w/out Dick @ his side.

bush and Cheney used a terrorist attack on America to seaze more power to "prevent
future terrorist attacks" even though they had been warned 52 times before 9/11.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200607070003?offset=20&show=1

Remember bush, "Ok you have covered your ass now". ... on August 6th of 2001
when told about the treat by bin Laden and al Qaeda.

[aquart]

85. No response? Actually, yeah.

It took me a couple of days to realize I'd just watched the murder of thousands of people. It looked like some Hollywood special effect.

What I don't think is the blankness from Cheney was "all according to plan" at all. They knew that planes would fly into something big. That would give them everything they needed. The towers FALLING wasn't expected. I think the blankness was him assessing whether it would make any difference and he decided it would just be an added benefit.

[endarkenment]

72. Indeed. My reaction too.

The only man in the room who was not reacting with shock and surprise. Gee....

[LibraLiz1973]

11. Skeet Skeet Skeet

Or, Scoot Scoot Scoot

[sam sarrha]

16. scooter must know he wont come out alive.. he knows toooo much

[WinkyDink]

32. The Romans would draw a warm bath, and then open their veins........

[Missy Vixen]

17. The other party that may have insight is Richard Clarke

Then again, it may now be sinking in that Scooter has no hope of a pardon or even of a "respite".

Julie
still president for life of the PFEB

[Garbo 2004]

28. Richard Clarke wasn't in the bunker with Cheney at the time. n/t

[bahrbearian]

19. He didn't "Groan" because he was too busy suppressing "Yes"

LIHOP

[arewenotdemo]

64. That rings true.

It must have been both a relief and a sexual rush to Cheney, given as much time as he probably spent fantasizing about those oil fields and the war necessary to seize them.

I've always been torn between believing that they did LIHOP, and that they were criminally incompetent.

I KNOW Bush would value his business connections to the Saudis in general, and the Bin Ladens in particular, more than he would ever consider the security of the nation he swore to defend. To me, that is a given. In no way did he want to have to take OBL out.

But the fact that any of the traitors were actually in DC that day tells me that they didn't give the green light for the operation.

[formercia]

22. The Fourth Horseman

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation chapter 6, verse 8

[FloridaJudy]

24. I suspect Cheney's reaction to *everything*

is "How can I use this to my advantage?"

The man really is a sociopath.

[seemslikeadream]

25. planning for a conflict ‘Angel is next.’

http://reprehensor.gnn.tv/blogs/10888/Webster_Griffin_Tarpley_on_Synthetic_Terror_Pt_1

BF: Now, you have a section called ‘Angel is next.’ What do you mean by ‘Angel is next.’?

WT: Look, this is a forgotten clue of 9/11, which seems to me is the most important, because this is when the invisible government speaks. You may remember that at one point during the morning, 10:00 probably on 9/11, a death threat against Bush came into the Secret Service, saying, Angel is next. It essentially means, Air Force One will be shot down as the next step in these developments.

There’s no doubt that this telephone call took place, it was confirmed by Cheney indirectly, Condoleeza Rice very directly, many other Republicans directly, then later on it was denied. ‘Oh it was a confused or garbled message that came in.’

At the beginning it seemed to serve Bush, because it seemed to explain why he had gone from Florida to Louisiana to Nebraska. Why he had been running across the country, scurrying away, instead of taking up his position in Washington, but as time went on, that became less important, and what became more important was that with this little message, you are opening up the world of the secret government which otherwise hardly appears to the superficial observer.

‘Angel is next.’ Implies the top-secret codename or codeword for the Presidential aircraft, Air Force One. I go into intelligence agency reports, now let me just make a parenthesis, (9/11 didn’t occur in a vacuum, it occurs in a world in which there are others watching. Who’s watching? Well, Russia’s watching, Israel’s watching very much, the French are watching, there’s Germans, Japan…), what I found is 3 separate reports, one is the Réseau Voltaire which is obviously benefiting from leaks from French intelligence. The Réseau Voltaire version, which came out September 20th (or) 25th, says that the ‘Angel is next.’ phone call came complete with top secret codeword, across a variety of agencies, suggesting that the people that were behind the attacks were a powerful faction inside the US intelligence community and government in general.

And that secondly, they had the nuclear launch codes in their possession. This report goes on to say that the Bush team thought during most of the day, that they were the target of a military coup. And it was only somehow later in the day that the situation was recomposed. Now what would it mean?

Essentially it means that the invisible government force behind 9/11 tells Bush that he must respond by stating that its Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, the Arabs, the Islamic world, and that what’s gonna happen is the invasion of Afghanistan, and above all the beginning of the ‘war of civilizations’ that Samuel Huntington writes about. An open-ended aggression of the United States against the Arab and Islamic world.

The implication seems to be, in the Réseau Voltaire report, that if Bush doesn’t do this, that this group is capable of starting that same war, using not conventional forces but nuclear missiles. Simply ordering the launch of missiles toward, well, Afghanistan perhaps, but maybe Baghdad, maybe Damascus, maybe Tehran, maybe Cairo, maybe Islamabad, Rabat, Tunisia, Kuala Lumpur, you name it. Any place in the Arab or Islamic world that would then start the war of civilizations with a vengeance.

The Debka, Debka is an internet service that generally reflects the views of the Israeli Mossad, and they are even more emphatic that this telephone call came complete with multiple codeword indicating that the invisible government force behind the attack which stretched through numerous Federal agencies and executive departments. They knew a whole selection of codeword that they seemed to have included with this phone call.

Finally there’s the Soviets, in this case Russia, it’s called Namakon, a very shadowy group. You can’t just call them up. But they speak from time to time, these are KGB old boys. And this appeared in the Russophile newspaper Zaftra, it’s a group that’s seeking confrontation, they have this nuclear launch capability, and they’re interested in nuclear confrontation also with Russia. Because, if it ever had come to this, in the middle of 9/11, if missiles had ever gone up, as soon as missiles are launched, Russia and China and others, see it, and they don’t know where those missiles are going. In the initial phase it’s not clear what the target is, so it takes a while to figure out where the missile is actually headed. It’s important to remember Russia was on a very high level of strategic alert on 9/11 because it had been carrying out strategic bomber maneuvers over the North Pole. (Of course the only conceivable target is Canada and the United States), and if you read Richard Clarke’s book, he says that the State Dept. had to call the Soviets and ask them to call off their strategic bomber maneuvers, and essentially the Soviets were asked not to go to a higher level of defense readiness, because the US had raised the DEFCON level to a sub-war level, but a very high level, in response to the 9/11 attacks. It’s also important to remember that one of the main events of 9/11 that nobody writes about, is the call between Putin and Bush, if you look at the big timeline that’s just been published about 9/11 it seems to have absolutely no reference to this, and it’s really one of the huge developments on 9/11, that Bush and Putin get on the phone and it starts a kind of a honeymoon. I would call it a Hitler/Stalin pact disguised as a honeymoon.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

29. you sure are full of

a lot of very disturbing information... thanks for sharing so much of it here. :patriot: :thumbsup:

[seemslikeadream]

34. "I had a camera with me, I took pictures of a fuelage"

:shrug:

http://www.gunsandbutter.net/archives.php?page=1

What Didn't Hit the Pentagon
with Dave von Kleist, April Gallop and Barbara Honegger. Dave von Kleist examines mainstream media coverage of the attack on the Pentagon; Pentagon survivor April Gallop describes her experiences on September 11th, 2001, her first day back at work as an administrative specialist with the U.S. Army at the Pentagon, after maternity leave; and Barbara Honegger, professional military affairs journalist and former White House policy analyst, discusses her article, "The Pentagon Attack Papers".

[HCE SuiGeneris]

35. The "Senior Pentagon Correspondent" seems to be

a bald-faced LIAR! Ahh, such patriotism is a wonder to behold... :mad:

[IChing]

40. yep a liar and the woman who brought her kid to work that day

and ended up in debris at the Pentagon told an amazing story which I hadn't heard before.

[karlrschneider]

52. I've run into a lot of nutcases but people who buy into this kind of crap

are just fucking insane.

[WinkyDink]

33. I completely disagree with this: the Bush team thought during most of the day, that they were the

target of a military coup."

NO. FREAKING. WAY. did Cheney or Bush think this. They were THEMSELVES the coup (cf., SCOTUS, 2000).

[Morgana LaFey]

45. I don't buy that version for several different reasons

I think some or perhaps all of it is disinformation.

No time right now, though.

[MrPrax]

77. "no doubt that this telephone call took place"

That reminded me of the 60 Minutes interview with Bush:

_________________

“I can remember sitting right here in this office thinking about the consequences of what had taken place and realizing it was the defining moment in the history of the United States,” says President Bush. “I didn’t need any legal briefs, I didn’t need any consultations, I knew we were at war.”

Mr. Bush says the first hours were frustrating. He watched the horrifying pictures, but the TV signal was breaking up. His calls to Cheney were cutting out. And he says he pounded his desk shouting, “This is inexcusable. Get me the vice president.”

....

They also feared that Air Force One itself was a target. Cheney told the president there was a credible threat against the plane. Using the code name for Air Force One, Mr. Bush told an aide, “Angel is next.” The threat was passed to presidential pilot Col. Mark Tillman.

“It was serious before that but now it is - no longer is it a time to get the president home,” says Tillman. “We actually have to consider everything we say. Everything we do could be intercepted, and we have to make sure that no one knows what our position is.”

Tillman asked for an armed guard at his cockpit door while Secret Service agents double-checked the identity of everyone on board. The crew reviewed the emergency evacuation plan. Then came a warning from air traffic control – a suspect airliner was dead ahead.

“Coming out of Sarasota there was one call that said there was an airliner off our nose that they did not have contact with,” remembers Tillman, who took evasive action, pulling his plane high above normal traffic. They were on course for Washington, but by now no one thought that was a good idea, except the president.

CBS
_________________

Very Interesting post...

[jollyreaper2112]

94. ok, where's the info coming from?

On the face of it, this all sounds like classic bullshit conspiracy theory where the hidden actors are just so good at what they do, too good to be plausible. This reads more like Illuminati than the dipshittery we're used to seeing on the world stage. Googling for "Réseau Voltaire report" turns up only one hit.

[Garbo 2004]

27. So it appears that a number of people were there & anyone of them could be sources for article.

Think no one else other than Scooter could/would take note of what was transpiring in the room on Sept 11?

[symbolman]

30. Somehow

I can't believe that his hands were Above the table.. sick bastard, a corporate cyborg - if President Clinton had a "blind trust" that went from 30 million to FOUR HUNDRED Million he'd have been tarred and feathered..

[Disturbed]

37. Darth was thinking that now he would reap his Mega Fortune.

Iraq was on his mind. Haliburton would finally pay off big time.

LIHOP- No doubt about it!

[Straight Shooter]

38. Millions watched those same images, thousands watched their loved ones die.

They didn't go insane despite unimaginable grief.

This article seems to imply that cheney was deeply affected by the events of September 11, 2001. I don't give a crap what it did to him emotionally or otherwise. Hundreds of thousands are dead because the bush administration consistently fails to heed the handwriting on the wall.

I find no reason to excuse Cheney's pathological metamorphosis.

[KoKo]

41. Where do you find thisExpos'e "implying" Cheney was "deeply affected" by 9/11?

Did you read the Subject Line and then the Post body itself? There's NO WAY what you say is implied either in the article or the OP's post. :shrug:

[IChing]

42. I guess we didn't read the same article

:eyes:

[Straight Shooter]

46. Roll your eyes.

Nice comment, there. Guess why people are dropping from DU like flies?

[IChing]

47. Why because of your "observation from the article

"that cheney was deeply affected by the events of September 11, 2001."

He showed no emotion when the towers came down in the article yet you say that he was deeply affected
where did it say that? That is why we asked you that.

Don't throw your passive-aggressive shit at me..BTW

[originalpckelly]

50. No, I would suggest to you that it says otherwise, that Dick and his cold heart...

at the very least exploited this tragedy to attempt to gain absolute power in America, if not something even more sinister.

[rasputin1952]

43. I believe cheney is a sociopath, I have seen nothing that would

be considered an argument against that evaluation.

As a sociopath, all he could see was the opportunity he could not have imagined, a chane to go to war and come off as some kind of "American Icon".

it is not a "strong willed" person that just takes the reigns of power and runs with it, it is a sociopath. If he were the least bit human, he would have felt immense empathy at the tragedy, there was plenty of time to set up his "revenge". Sure, there were other planes and other targets, and no one knew just what those targets could be, but that was not cheney's job, it was not his mission. He is the VP, the president, (as sad as it is), was/is bush, not cheney...he had no authority to do anything. Every Cabinet member outranked him, yet HE had to start coming up w/a plan that eventually led us to what we are in now.

Going after bin-Laden was the right thing to do, but not getting him was an error of monumental proportions. Right from the beginning, cheney had bigger p lans...Afghanistan was nothing, Iraq has oil...the plot thickens.

cheney is the worst type of human being, if he is human at all...he can only see opportunity to gain, financially, politically, whatever. He is a beast, he concerns himself w/what is best for cheney, and nothing else. He is the epitomy of evil, and I think he is so horrid, even hell might not take him, as he'd challenge satan for the "top spot".

[opihimoimoi]

51. Them Mother FKRS KNEW>>>>>Dats whot it looks like....DEY KNEW THE ATTACK WAS COMING

[nolabels]

69. Benedict Arnold was hero at one time also....

different people also knew Benedict Arnold in different ways but all later learned of a coin that was conflicted when flipped over. Greed, pain and realization of how short one's life really is often change people in ways not imagined before. It would not of surprised me to learn that was small group of men who would conspire and sell out to get things to go their way. Seeing what happened in Watergate and then watching Reagan asleep at the wheel with Iran/contra who could be surprised? There is too much evidence floating and way too much theatrics about. For anyone that has studied a fair amount of the sheer volume of contradictory evidence to believe any part of the official conspiracy theory to what the government says happened on 9/11 seems like lunacy.

A guy known as Dick that has been allowed to fester in what is now three republican administrations would look to be that proverbial slam dunk also. Just like Benedict Arnold, Dick had to be received into a position of trust before he or anybody else could conceive of his being a part of it. A guy that is hired to search for a suitable V.P. and the only guy he could find is himself should be a clue on how contemptuous the dude really is

Benedict Arnold
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold

[H2O Man]

58. There is

some interesting activity going on right now. Most of it is still below the surface. But parts of it are bubbling to the surface, and it has a lot to do with "perception management" on some important national security issues. There are, at present, two groups engaged in a contest. But Libby isn't in this now.

[zippy890]

70. H20 Man, there's going to be an on-line discussion

with Barton Gellman, WAPO reporter today, Monday: " to discuss his stories about how Dick Cheney built one of the most powerful vice presidencies in U.S. history and his role in post-9/11 decisions."

People can submit questions or comments before or during the discussion.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/06/22/DI2007062201277.html?hpid=topnews

I think you could contribute much to this discussion.

edited to ask: what are the 2 groups you refer to in your post?

[H2O Man]

74. Thank you.

I was aware of the Gellman discussion, and am glad that you mentioned it. I hope that others from the DU community will keep an eye on it, and perhaps participate in it. Hopefully I can get in a question or two, myself.

I think that we are witnessing a continuation of a long-standing conflict between parts of the intelligence community who recognize the benefits afforded this country by the good works of people such as Joseph and Valerie Wilson, and a group who has an agenda that includes attempting to institute the plan that Wolfowitz & Libby put on paper for Cheney in 1992 -- and in order to redraw the map of the Middle East, they feel the need to do severe damage to that first group.

[L. Coyote]

63. Do we know if this is trustworthy? Do you believe anything else these folks try to tell you?

Is this just a big distraction, timed for the week Bush gets subpoenaed? HELLO! The biggest scandal news of the Bush Presidency happened this week, with White House subpoenas, and viola, everyone is looking at Cheney. Go figure! This is all too transparent, and yet even the buffalo herd at DU took the turn and went over the Cheney cliff.

Is this just another Buffalo Jump to Hell?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x899312

[malaise]

82. That's my fear, but both Bush and Cheney

are wanted for treason, war crimes and violating both the Constitution and the Geneva Convention.

[DemReadingDU]

65. morning kick

[disndat]

76. People who put down

others questioning the official versions of 9/11 are either hopeless morons or deep in the pockets of the RW. For two main reasons: 1. The elaborate government secrecy on 9/11. Their refusal to release any information related to events of that day. 2. The stand-down of the NORAD jet fighter planes during the hour long flights from Logan Airport to the WTC. Now, we have the additional info from a DUer today that the agency that ran the WTC security is connected to one of the Bush brothers with Saudi business interests.

[peace13]

78. Agree.

People who put others down have their own set of problems! Chances are we will never know what happened and it is funny to see that some here think that they have the only answer. Peace, Kim

[whistle]

79. You got that right....

:kick:

[whistle]

80. Excellent piece and I've bookmarked the WP link for Parts 3 & 4

[LSK]

83. it may not be Libby leaking, it could be Rice or Hadley

or someone in their camp.

From what I understand, there are 2 factions in the White House: Cheney vs everyone else.

He is not even liked in the White House.

[Roland99]

86. What an amazing series so far. Too bad the press didn't dig deep BEFORE the invasion!!!

[Dragonbreathp9d]

88. Dick Ch285.02 is not designed to feel emotion

Now he is Ch285.72 , so its ok.

[Rex]

95. Cheney didn't respond, same for George.

Like crooks watching their crime in motion - fucking traitors.

[blayne]

96. great article

Thanks for the link. Over the past several months I have wondered if most of the mess created by this administration was actually created by Cheney. I guess those calling for the VP's impeachment knew what they were doing.

[loudsue]

98. Wow! This thread is giving me the jitters....and I'm usually jitter-proof.

:kick: