Sen. Mike Gravel: "Why Hillary Scares Me"

[Wetzelbill]

Sen. Mike Gravel| BIO
Why Hillary Scares Me
Posted June 25, 2007 | 10:14 AM (EST)

During one of the debates I mentioned that my fellow Democratic candidates scare me. Hillary's speech last week to the Take Back America conference gives me yet another reason to be afraid.

In an indignant voice she decried the Bush administration's ''stunning record of secrecy and corruption, of cronyism run amok. . . It is everything our founders were afraid of, everything our Constitution was designed to prevent.'' Actually, our Constitution grants Congress the power to prevent these ills but Hillary and her colleagues weren't up to the task.

Our founders' legacy did not stop Hillary from voting for the Patriot Act and then supporting its renewal in 2006 despite revelations that the government was using it to infringe on the very liberties that our founders held sacred. Where was her commitment to our founders when she voted to gut our habeas corpus protections?

As for cronyism -- Hillary has repeatedly authorized billions that the Pentagon gave in no-bid contracts to Halliburton. Even though the Democrats have been in control of Congress for months, they still haven't summoned Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and the other usual suspects to account for the missing millions in reconstruction funding

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sen-mike-gravel/why-hillary-scares-me_b_53586.html

[DURHAM D]

1. He scares me.

He is simple minded. Reminds me of Reagan.

[MyNameGoesHere]

5. Which part of this reminds you of Raygun Ronnie?

The War in Iraq

Immediate and orderly withdrawal of troops followed by aggressive diplomacy
Iran

Senator Gravel firmly opposes a military confrontation with Iran and advocates a diplomatic solution to the current situation.
National Initiative for Democracy

Empower Americans by giving us the mechanism––The National Ballot Initiative––to vote directly on issues which affect our daily lives. This power is similar to the initiatives used by citizens in 24 states and over 200 communities.
A Fair Tax

Eliminate the income tax and replace it with a progressive national sales tax - Fair Tax.
Global Warming/Climate Change

We must reduce America's carbon footprint in the world by passing legislation that caps emissions and improve energy efficiency while generating energy from low-carbon sources.
Universal Healthcare Vouchers

A National Health Care Voucher plan will provide health care for all Americans.

He may have a unique way of communicating, and may not be "articulate" enough for the high brows, but he falls in line mostly with Dem principles. To compare him with brain addled raygun is just mean.

[DURHAM D]

15. Heres what reminds me of Reagan.

He addresses very complex problems by making them overly simple and throws out overly simple solutions. People buy it cause its easy.

As I recall he said that he wants to get rid of the military because if we don't have a military we won't get in wars. Yeah that will work.

[John Q. Citizen]

34. Do you have a link? Or perhaps your memory is as faulty as Reagan's

And what's that got to do with the OP?

How do you feel about the Patriot Act? Are you in favor of it?

[DURHAM D]

39. It was on tv during a presidential debate.

"Perhaps my memory is as faulty as Reagan's..."? Perhaps your attitude is as pleasant as Cheney's. Find your own damn link.

And that Patriot Act - I guess Hillary was the only person who voted for it. Right.

[John Q. Citizen]

54. She wasn't one of the ones voting against it, if that's what you mean. Lots of

Repos voted for it, and some Dems, including Hillary.

Usually the person who makes a claim is the one who supports the claim with a link.

It's kind of a civilized convention found on the net, among those who are used to debating their posistions with others who may hold another position.

Here's more on the Patriot act vote in the House

House Votes to Revise, Extend Patriot Act, Angering Senators

By Charles Babington
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 15, 2005; Page A14

The House voted 251 to 174 yesterday to renew the USA Patriot Act, setting up a confrontation over the revised anti-terrorism measure with a group of Democratic and Republican senators who say it would not go far enough to protect civil liberties.

The Patriot Act, approved after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, made it easier for the FBI to conduct secret searches, monitor telephone calls and e-mails, and obtain bank records and other personal documents in connection with terrorism investigations.

Civil liberties groups say the proposed renewal would do too little to let targeted people challenge national security letters and types of subpoenas that give the FBI substantial latitude in deciding what records -- including those from libraries -- should be surrendered.

The White House and GOP leaders urged Republicans to support the president and extend the law, which is scheduled to expire Dec. 31. "Renewing the Patriot Act before it expires in December is literally a matter of life and death," said Rep. Ric Keller (R-Fla.). Forty-four Democrats joined 207 Republicans in voting to renew key provisions of the act, with some modifications, for four years. Eighteen Republicans, 155 Democrats and one independent voted against it.

more...http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/14/AR2005121402051.html

So I guess a majority of Dems voted against it. Hillary was in the minority of Dems to vote for it in 2005, as was Obama. Nice to know they got your back, eh?

Here's the breakdone in the Senate.

Party Yes No Not Voting
Democratic 34 9 1
Independent 0 1 0
Republican 55 0 0
Total 89 10 1
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/109/senate/2/votes/29/

[northofdenali]

81. If you're not scared of a Hillary presidency, you're the idiot.

Gravel can't come close to winning. He doesn't mind. He's bringing up the issues that NEED to be addressed, and aren't being addressed by our "Democratic" candidates. And yes, the quotation marks are used :sarcasm: deliberately.

He was an excellent Senator for my state. He took NO bullshit from anyone, and spoke his mind (including on the original Earth Day) regardless of the political situation. He was pro-woman, pro-union, pro-choice and pro-habeas corpus when those issues weren't even in the brains of most of our elected representatives.

Perhaps his memory IS faulty. Mine is, too, but I remember Mike Gravel.

Hillary voted for Patriot. She voted to re-fund the "war" on "terra". She voted FOR THE FUCKING WAR TO BEGIN WITH.

My advice to you is to do your own damn research, because that way, you won't come off as the wrong headed dumbass that you appear to be.

[freefall]

85. No she wasn't but she is asking us to vote for her for President and in

my opinion that and several other of her votes disqualify her from consideration.

Still waiting for a woman I can vote for.

freefall

[MyNameGoesHere]

41. Not a Gravel supporter but i just

do not see that statement anywhere. Was it made by him or from those other guys that say anything about someone and it must be true? Besides i believe Raygun Ronnie increased the military by one of the biggest increases in history. 600 ship navy and all that jazz. I still see no resemblance.

[lumberjack_jeff]

76. Well then maybe simplicity sells.

Instead of creating 10 point plans and expecting everyone to absorb them, just speak in principles.

I'm not entirely sold on his principles, but I think his method of delivery has merit.

[bedpanartist]

96. right and wrong are not complex issues

the only people who make a lot of these things "complex" is the lawyer class in America. Without a tremendous amount of "complexity" thrown into the lives of humans, they are out of jobs, and would have to do honest work that contributed to our society, like police officer, garbageperson or a cook.

The issue of the Patriot Act is not a complex one. The Patriot Act gutted the bill of rights and created another giant monster KGB-esque bureaucracy. It is antithetical to personal liberty, and that is wrong.

The war on Iraq is among the most horrifyingly grotesque bloodlettings and stomp of thuggery ever perpetrated against a helpless and defenseless population. It makes athe kind of violence that American terrorist groups like the KKK perpetrated against minorities in America look like child's play.

It is wrong.

It doesn't take a law degree to figure that one out, because only a morally bankrupt corporate boot licker could ever try to explain that one off.

[John Q. Citizen]

33. because you believe Reagan would have opposed the Patriot Act?

[proud2BlibKansan]

92. LOL

:rofl:

[intheflow]

48. Gravel is the man who got the Pentagon Papers published for Watergate.

Coundn't be further from Reagan in any regard.

[babylonsister]

2. Nice smackdown, Mr. Gravel! nt

[ISUGRADIA]

8. Yawn...let him go back to throwing rocks into ponds

[babylonsister]

12. You can yawn; I'm easily amused.

:D

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Nothing to disagree with there.

[NYCGirl]

4. Gravel is easily scared. NT

[John Q. Citizen]

37. Yeah, why would anyone be scared of losing their rights? Hillary voted for the Patriot Act,

so you know it's good for you.

[wyldwolf]

44. So did Edwards. And Obama voted for it's renewal.

[John Q. Citizen]

45. True. Three good reasons to support Kucinich and hope Gore enters the race.

[redqueen]

77. Amen... why are so many ready to settle for less?

I just don't get it...

[John Q. Citizen]

86. I'm not sure. I think it's been so long that many people have forgotten what a real Democrat stands

for. I know for sure what a real Democrat stands for ain't empire, it ain't corporate profits over people, and it ain't taking away civil and political rights.

[pokercat999]

87. Exactly do we want a Democrat for President or

just another re-pug lite?

I have this feeling of dred that the primary voters are about to hand the rethugligans another "victory". That is they will make this "election" close enough to steal, again.

[Robeson]

106. Agreed....

...nicely put...:thumbsup:

[fooj]

73. My neighbor just drove his car over a cliff...

so did my cousin. My father-in-law didn't drive off the cliff. He just chose to jump. WTF?????

All of these projections are tiresome. Hillary did what she did. It's as simple as that. It's called taking responsibility for your actions. It's not HER job to make sure that everyone else takes responsibility for THEIR behavior. That is, of course, unless she is unwilling to take responsibility for what she has done. Isn't that why we see all of this fingerpointing? It's ridiculous and transparent as hell.

[leftchick]

6. she doesn't scare me Mike as much as

she disgusts me with her neocon foreign policy. :puke:

[GreenArrow]

17. she's not alone on that

among any of the "electable" candidates.

[Dogmudgeon]

7. "When I am president ..."

Of course Hillary scares him. She has a better chance of receiving the nomination than he does -- especially given that he's revived the old Naderite rhetoric.

That doesn't scare me. It saddens me. I like Mike Gravel.

--p!

[papau]

98. My response also - Mike will always be a hero - but now he sounds like Nader with half

truth analysis that - while it pushes a good idea - end of war/restore civil liberties - is not the way I want to remember him.

[wyldwolf]

9. Typical red meat being tossed at the Huffington/Koss crowd

Notice how he seems to blame Hillary for everything the Democrats have done wrong? Mikey, this is but one of the many reasons you're not taken seriously. Clinton is but one vote. Clinton is not the Senate Majority Leader. Clinton has been a Senator for just one term and a few months.

Our founders' legacy did not stop Hillary from voting for the Patriot Act and then supporting its renewal in 2006? Nor did it stop Obama. Are you afraid of him? As a matter of fact, it didn't stop John Edwards from voting for it initially. Does Edwards scare you? Better question: Doesn't a man who thinks he can erase an entire voting record in the senate with "I'm sorry" scare you?

Mikey - go back to watching your 7 minute fireplace video.

[roguevalley]

11. read up on Mike. He has balls and he steps up to do what he

believes in, hang prison, hang the herd. Mike has served his country well and taken hits to do it. That is more than the blow-dried crowd that plagues us now can say.

RV, who voted for Mike when he ran in Alaska.

[wyldwolf]

18. Already done so. In fact, I was one the first DUers talking about Gravel

Waaaay back when he first announced and said he was in favor of the Fair Tax.

But all this is beside the point. Gravel can be al those things you say, and still be wrong. Or, in this case, picking on Clinton when others are just as guilty.

[DURHAM D]

19. He doesn't have balls.

He has a mouth unfettered with brain matter.

[slick8790]

32. Yeah, ok.

From wikipedia:

"In 1971 Gravel played a key role in the release of the Pentagon Papers — a large collection of secret government documents pertaining to the Vietnam War — which were made public by former Defense Department analyst Daniel Ellsberg. Gravel inserted 4,100 pages of the Papers into the Congressional Record of his Senate Subcommittee on Buildings and Grounds. These pages were later issued by the Beacon Press as the "Senator Gravel Edition" — the most complete edition of the Pentagon Papers to be published. The "Gravel Edition" was edited and annotated by Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn, and included an additional volume of analytical articles on the origins and progress of the war, also edited by Chomsky and Zinn.

Also in 1971, Gravel embarked on a one-man filibuster against legislation renewing the military draft. Using various parliamentary maneuvers, Gravel was able to block the bill for five months before President Richard Nixon and Senate Republicans agreed to allow the draft to expire in 1973."


You keep making things easier for yourself by writing off anyone other than big Hil. Sen. Gravel has done more for this country than hillary and her platitudes ever will.

[DURHAM D]

36. I am not a Hillary supporter - but he is a fool.

Maybe he previously brought more to the table but not anymore. He is an old curmudgeon who just likes throwing rocks.

[Wetzelbill]

47. but don't you think that's his intention?

To be a curmudgeon and hold Dems feet to the fire on ending the Iraq War? I thought that was basically why he got into the race was to shake things up and say certain things that nobody else will say. Wasn't his intention to serve that purpose?

[roguevalley]

56. I suppose people have become used to homogenized candidates,

people who are parsing their words and using aides and focus groups. I remember when they didn't. I remember when it was possible to disagree without calling names. I guess, like Gravel, I'm old. But I voted for him back in the day and it was a proud vote cast.

[Blue_In_AK]

105. Right on, RV...

I was proud to be an Alaskan when Mike Gravel was our senator -- unlike now with our present congressional delegation.

[slick8790]

66. And he's a fool why?

[DKRC]

104. It's not the rocks - it's the ripples

I don't think he believes he'll receive the nomination, but he's bringing things up that need to be talked about.
I don't see the hurry to annoint one out of the 3 the M$M has chosen for us. We're so far out, we have time to discuss issues before the election.

[WileEcoyote]

132. Rock throwing?

Made him look like a moron. I had to do a search on him to make sure he wasn't a republican. Someone find an "assisted care" facility for Mike Gravel.

Sure he may give a good speech once in a while. Some politicians can do this while unconscious. He's dissing Hillary because it gives him attention and nothing more. Ditto Carl Bernstein.

[catgirl]

42. good post

[NoPasaran]

43. What Gravel did in the 1970s (which was great) doesn't mean

What Gravel did in the 1970s (which was great) doesn't mean he's not a wacko today, any more than the fact that Joe Lieberman was a Freedom Rider back in the 1960s excuses his kissing Bush's ass in our era.

[slick8790]

67. What makes him a wacko?

I'm sick and tired of these homogenized candidates getting shuffled through spewing out platitudes that people think they wanna hear. Mike gravel is the ONLY candidate (other than Kucinich) who I feel truly speaks from the heart and not from a prepared set of remarks.

[John Q. Citizen]

70. I like Gravel, but I don't like his flat tax idea. He's willing to tell you what's on his mind

and that's refreshing, as you say.

He's less whacko than the three top tier candidates, IMHO, because he doesn't buy into the American empire crap. That's nuts and evil.

[NoPasaran]

71. His nutty ideas, like the "fair tax" and I & R

Staring into the camera for a minute and a half didn't help.

And frankly I'm sick and tired of the implication that "homogenized" candidates can't be speaking from their hearts. Insanity is not a prerequisite for sincerity.

[jilln]

89. Are you serious?

Mentioning that rock ad is the same as Howard Dean being cut out because of the scream. SO RIDICULOUS. If we want candidates of substance we have to look behind this kind of media bullshit. Or we'll keep getting the former actors, cowboys and "guys you want to have a beer with."

[roguevalley]

55. He has. I am not the sort of person who is so for a candidate that

i would overlook them on film twisting the heads off kittens but some do. Not naming anyone of course but it behooves us all to understand that being strong for your country can mean pain and suffering. Mike Gravel did that. He comes from the time in politics when you STOOD UP FOR WHAT WAS RIGHT even if it hurt. To run him down is unconscionable. Disagree on what you don't agree with but leave the invective out. Mike Gravel has done more for this country accidentally than most of the people on this board will ever do on purpose.

[roguevalley]

64. Thank you, God, for explaining Mike to me. I'm from Alaska and I

voted for Mike. I know his record and his personality. For all the things I don't agree with, I agree with much. TOo bad you are so sad to lash out at him like this when he has served the country the way he has. He has EARNED the right to speak. He ended one war and wants to end this one. He's the only candidate that is for gay marriage and the end of don't ask, don't tell. He says what is true and you don't have to agree. Wait twenty years and even you will see the truth of it. There is always someone who is a prophet before their own time. They never get the respect they deserve. Too bad you make your point about him with insults. It would help if you would actually outline what you find so offensive and counter it with facts. I would appreciate reading that. The more information the better.

[northofdenali]

82. His brain matter is, obviously, more dense than yours. n/t

[Wetzelbill]

23. well, Obama never voted for it the first time, he wasn't in the Senate

and he isn't a consistent warmonger like Hillary. Also, Edwards is capable of saying that his Iraq vote was a mistake. I think Gravel is obviously being over the top, but mainly he's nailing Hillary for being a hypocrite and taking every side of an issue. Also, Gravel was in the Senate, he was not the Senate Majority leader either, and he was pivotal in ending the Vietnam War. He's been there and done that, so I think it jerks his chain that Dems like Hillary have virtually done nothing to stop this war. Instead they make excuses. Also, you have to take it with a grain of salt, HRC is the anointed "frontrunner" so she, more so than Obama and Edwards, will take hits like this. It comes with the territory.

[wyldwolf]

28. He voted for the renewal of it and has voted the same way as Hillary since he got to the senate.

... on all Iraq bills. Identical votes. Except one - in which he voted the GOP line and Clinton did not.

And now we know his "against Iraq" speech in 2002 was politically motivated, Obama is just Hillary with a penis and a tan.

[Wetzelbill]

35. yeah he has similar problems

I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with you, I'm just saying there are reasons why she's a more viable target for Gravel to focus on in this instance. Plus, he's talking specifically about a speech she made, he didn't just start pulling random remarks out of the air from the last several years, he's addressing her remarks from a recent conference. Now if Obama gave that same speech at the same conference and he was the frontrunner, I suspect he'd get the same treatment.

[fooj]

95. You said it. I didn't.

And now we know his "against Iraq" speech in 2002 was politically motivated, Obama is just Hillary with a penis and a tan.

So, what does this say about Hillary? Politically motivated, indeed.

[557188]

29. One Person

Gravel led the one person filibuster to end the draft. Has Hilary done anything of that sort?

Gravel has earned the right to call out Senators. This one person excuse doesn't hold water to Gravel since he proved one person can eventually make a difference in the senate.

[wyldwolf]

30. uh, so? You're saying because he did something great once upon a time...

...that that gives him a pass for disingenuous shit right now.

[roguevalley]

58. one man's disengenuous shit is another man's truth. unless we all

have to believe and say the same thing on this board, there is no 'official' line on any candidate. I find some of his ideas not to my taste but a lot of what Mike is pressing, as an issues candidate
for this election cycle, is fine and dandy. let the front runners squirm. it can only help in the free flow of ideas. rather a campaign in which there aren't straight smooth lanes to the win.

[ellisonz]

79. LOL.

You're the one who's disingenuous!

Shades of Rove:thumbsdown:

[RaleighNCDUer]

133. Disingenuous:

Not straightforward; not candid or frank; insincere.

Just in case that word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Mike can be faulted for a lot of things, but disingenuousness is NOT one of them - everyone here says the same thing about him, good or bad, that he talks off the top of his head, saying what he thinks.

Me, I think that's a goood thing - I'd be more favorably inclined toward other candidates if they were a little more candid themselves.

[welshTerrier2]

84. "Clinton is but one vote." ONE SCARY, DEAD WRONG VOTE

that's a heck of a defense of your candidate ... i'll call it the "lots of others did it too" defense.

having trouble acknowledging her vote was wrong on the Patriot Act? I know you disagreed with her on the IWR although you never say so.

making fun of Gravel and his video's doesn't change what Hillary has done. Red meat? perhaps ... that doesn't change the facts ...

btw, you may enjoy the other defense you offered, i.e. that Obama and Edwards did it too ... go ahead and play your little reindeer games ... any way you slice it, Hillary has made some horrible policy choices.

[northofdenali]

90. Hell YES I'm scared of Obama. And Edwards.

Not a drop of ethics or morality in any ONE of them. Including Hillary.

Vote to enter an illegal, immoral war? Then vote to fund it AGAIN? Vote for the removal of habeas corpus as a basic human right (Patriot 1 and 2)? Refuse to stand up for true rights and legalities by not even CONSIDERING impeachment?

Damn right they scare me.

Repuke-lite. Anti-Constitution. Anti-citizens.

PRO-CORPORATIONS.

Hell, YES, I'm scared. And if you aren't, you're obviously (a) very, very young or (b)incapable of doing some research.

[G_j]

111. and that is the short version

Tell it like it is!


(I agree with you)

[Heywood J]

125. Exactly

>Clinton is not the Senate Majority Leader. Clinton has been a Senator for just one term and a few months.

You make my point for me. Clinton has nowhere near the experience necessary for the job, nor does Obama. One term in the Senate is only one notch beyond no experience at all.


(BTW - one vote can mean a filibuster or one vote can mean Tom Delay walking around to persuade before the gavel falls. You've got to be shitting me to try and make the case that one person can't do anything)

[malaise]

10. We need more Mike Gravels

Tell the children the truth!

[GreenArrow]

50. telling the truth is one thing,

finding people who will believe it is another.

[Emillereid]

13. He is absolutely right. He nails Clinton for her hollowness;

her inauthenticity. She lacks a moral center and will say or do whatever is politically expedient. Note her latest conversion to something akin to an an antiwar stance - if she truly understood the Iraq occupation she could never bad mouth the puppet regime we implanted. Her words praising the troops and dissing the Iraq government are designed to appease the American public - and I one want my candidate to be more truthful and honest. I am not naive and I know most politicians will say or do things for short term political gain. But, Hillary is especially mealy-mouthed and shallow. As Gravel says - she scares me too.

[qazplm]

24. its one thing to disagree with her

but this idea that she lacks a moral center?

Give me a break, that's over the top rhetoric.

She may not have a sufficient moral center for you personally, but she is not "amoral".

[John Q. Citizen]

108. She's probably cried 750,000 plus times and that's just for the dead innocents.

Add in the maimed and wounded, the refugees and orphans and she's probably cried a river or two....

She just doesn't like to show that in her adds or at the town hall meetings.

Good thing the war and occupation were just a mistake. Imagine if it were a crime?
A crime committed to steal oil? Now that would certaily be an "amoral" act.

To not call it such would be an "amoral" act.

The same goes for the whole three top tier in my humble opinion.

[onehandle]

14. President Romney.

That scares me.

[truebrit71]

16. Get Hillary is the nominee and you can pretty much guarantee that result...

...The woman is POISON...

[DURHAM D]

21. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. They sky is falling. n/t

[mmonk]

26. Nope.

Just the constitution, service people and Iraqis over a lie, our national bank account, and our moral fiber.

[durrrty libby]

22. Naaah. All the far left crackpots are making her look

reasonable to the masses

She thanks y'all

:toast: :party: :thumbsup: :hi: :loveya: :rofl:

[Wetzelbill]

27. only in America can

a warmonger appear reasonable next to people who question and want to end a war that was unnecessary and started on lies.

[durrrty libby]

40. See, it's that "warmonger " meme " that gives the fringe loony left

its reputation, of fringe and loony

Most people do not consider HRC a "warmonger"

And inferring that she had anything to do with lying us into war only further proves the point

of my previous post.



:eyes: :think: :crazy: :silly:

[Wetzelbill]

46. most people don't support the war

That's hardly a fringe position. It's not that I consider Hillary a warmonger, she pretty much is one. Lots of politicians are, in fact, the status quo are definitely unabashed warmongers. Neoconservative doctrine, which HRC was in support of, is specifically preemptive. I didn't infer that she herself lied about the war, however now that you're on it, she certainly didn't do much to dispel any lies, and has spent the last several years propping up certain canards because it makes her judgement look bad if she doesn't. But if you say, look at HRC's judgement and predictions on Iraq, as compared to say somebody like Dennis Kucinich's, well she is way off base. I was a columnist at the time, and if you look at my own judgement on the war as compared to hers, well, you will see she again is way off. Now who is loony, somebody who is dead on, well-informed and has good judgement, or somebody who is wrong about virtually everything, status quo oriented and helped push the worst foreign policy mistake in our nation's history? It's not that I don't like HRC, I agree with her on most issues, however, she definitely has a credibility and judgement problem. And I don't need to act like a child and call somebody fringe and loony to make a point.

[durrrty libby]

49. Since, you already inferred that she lied us into war,everything

you say has questionable credibility. I'm not interested

[Wetzelbill]

51. you have no substance

at all. Nor did I infer what you said. It's not that you're not interested, it's that you're ignorant. Not once did you try to disprove anything he said in this piece, you just went straight to the "Loony Left" talk, because, frankly, you have nothing. I have a history as a columnist and a writer, one that is more accurate than anything on this subject than anything you or HRC has ever said, I have been published on Neoconservatives, and my credibility speaks for itself. Yours doesn't

[durrrty libby]

68. That's right. You are a legend in your own mind

[roguevalley]

61. that's fine. don't be interested. but the discourse on this thread is

needed. I am sick of campaigns that don't have upheavals and exchanges.

[roguevalley]

60. name one candidate running that backs gay marriage and ending

the war. name one. Mike is the only one. He's pretty damned fearless on the hard stuff. that makes him unique in this campaign.

[eridani]

102. Dennis Kucinich n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

110. That's who I was thinking also. Oh yeah, and single payer universal healthcare,

and public education for anyone who wants it through 4 years of college, and cutting the military budget, and medical marijuana, and legalizing/decriminalizing recreational marijuana, and an end to the drug war mentality emphazising harm reduction, education and rehab over incarceration of non-violent users.

Kucinich is the only guy talking sense on all the issues. And he spells out his stances in detailed position papers.

He's about the most straight forward and honest candidate I've ever encountered.

Hey, why not the best?

[John Q. Citizen]

109. Lying us into a war? It was just a big mistake. Just a big mistake, that's all.

Who ever said anybody anywhere ever lied us into a war?

Sure as hell not Hillary Clinton. I don't think she'd appreciate you misquoting her on that.

[Heywood J]

126. "Most people"

Care to explain who they would be?

[paulk]

124. spot on

:thumbsup:

[avrdream]

101. "The woman is POISON."

That's a bit MUCH, don't you think?

Yeesh.

[Wetzelbill]

25. Oh lord, don't say things like that

I heard that if you say Romney's name three times while looking in the mirror you will get attacked by a bottle of sun tan lotion with a creepy smile. :)

[Marr]

121. All the more reason not to support Hillary Clinton in the primaries.

Hillary Clinton is the one candidate the Republicans could beat. She's the only one that would excite their disillusioned base.

[fazoolius_2006]

20. Bam!! Nice.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

31. He tells it like it is n.t

[truedelphi]

38. Double Bam! n/t

[IChing]

59. Bam, Bam, Bam

That Flintstone senator nailed it.
I'm glad he is speaking out.

[rucky]

I see your bams and raise you a Zingggg! n/t

[Bucky]

52. Kudos to Mike Gravel's ghost writer.

And of course kudos to Sen. Gravel for hiring someone who isn't as bat-assed crazy as himself to get out his message.

[Wetzelbill]

53. it was the throwing the rock in the water thing right?

:)

[Bucky]

57. Man, I still got two holes burned in my forehead from watching that video

Plus whenever I head the word "moose" I'm hypnotically compelled to send him another check.

[Wetzelbill]

63. haha

that's good. :toast:

Gravel is a lot of fun though. I dig the loose cannon stuff. :)

[roguevalley]

62. ha! I loved that. Do you understand that one person making a

principled stand can cause shock waves that reach out and change the world? I loved that.

[Wetzelbill]

65. yeah it was interesting

I like seeing somebody shake things up. Interesting guy. A little wild, but yeah, he's not exactly a focus group type of guy.

[leftchick]

78. I got it immediately

and was very amused and somewhat surprised so many here did not. Mike rocks in a very special way. :)

[GeneCosta]

69. To the person who said Gravel simplifies everything...

Look up video clips of him when he's not being sideline at the corporate-media debates. He has the most thought-out solution to health care and drugs. He DOES have some simple answers to pressing questions, I'll give you that. He wants gay marriage now, out of Iraq now....

He and Kucinich are the only true progressives running.

[truedelphi]

74. I mean what is wrong with SIMPLE?? It's the complex

That has been the problem - must ignore the idea that there were no weapons of MD
Must ignore that Saddam Hussein had no nukes
Must ignore that we are now saying we won't leave until the standing army is big enough, bad enough to do some damage (although we went in there in '91 because the standing army could
do some damage)

[hfojvt]

94. He's not progressive on taxes

Since Hillary does not have a moronic tax break for the rich as one of her proposals, she scares me less than Gravel.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

72. gravel didn't pick a celene dion song for his campaign theme

that shows some sanity.

[Disturbed]

75. "Sen. Gravel has done more for this country than hillary

and her platitudes ever will." Yes, indeed. He and Kucinich are progressives. All the others are pablum.

[Clark2008]

99. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

:applause:

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. He is pretty nutty but I agree with him here.

And I applaud his words.

[northofdenali]

83. He was just as nutty as a Senator from Alaska could be!

We're all crazy, or we wouldn't live with 3 hours of daylight and 45 below in the winter.

He was a fantastic Senator for us. We had a pro-choice law in place BEFORE Roe v. Wade. Mostly because of Mike Gravel. Pro-woman, pro-union - yep, a nut alrighty.

:pals: Hi proud2B!

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. Have you seen any of his youtube videos?

:rofl:

[northofdenali]

91. He so knows he's not a viable candidate -

he does what he wants!

They are really funny. He means them to be!

[Blue_In_AK]

107. Yes, we're all crazy...

...and we LIKE it that way.

Blue_in_AK,
Proud to be a crazy Alaskan

and so glad I lived here when Mike was our senator.

[northofdenali]

112. Wasn't he the MAX?

Got my first "congrats" on being an honor grad from Lathrop from gravelly Mike - on recycled paper. In 1972.

He hasn't changed much.

[Blue_In_AK]

113. I love the guy...

I did even before I moved up here.

[SergeyDovlatov]

93. Only those who can't win are allowed to speak the truth. -- John Stewart (crossfire interview)

[johncoby2]

97. Gravel is a beer short of a six pack.

A taco short of a combination plate.

[wyldwolf]

100. a frenchfrie short of a happy meal?

[mod mom]

103. This will inspire my husband to send him more $.

As for me-I'm holding out for GORE!

[NYCGirl]

129. So he's the one who's been contributing to Gravel's campaign.

They were wondering who it was.


:evilgrin:

[Ian_rd]

114. Typical Hillary Thread

1. Original post criticizing some of Hillary Clinton's positions.
2. Responses from Hillary supporters defending her repeated cooperation in increasing Bush's power beyond the law and funding the war.
3. Hillary supporters allude that the OP is a fringe-leftist (because they oppose the war? *shrug*) or that they hate women.

Hillary is a corporate-funded weather vane. Not to mention, she could never be elected - she'd use the same tired "triangulation" crap to lose the election like so many before her when it only worked for her husband because Ross Perot sucked votes from Bush and Dole. And if by some miracle she actually won and only served one term, we would have gone 24 YEARS in this country with the Executive Branch headed by the same two wealthy families. We could be the first democracy in history to VOTE FOR A MONARCHY.

[TheUnspeakable]

115. k&r-don't know if he'd make a good president-

but I'm so glad he's there to try to keep then honest!

[iamahaingttta]

116. I'm starting to find it's the HRC SUPPORTERS...

...who scare me!

[hippiechick]

117. Thanks, Mr. Gravel. You speak the truth.

:patriot:

[lonestarnot]

118. A most excellent observation.

[BlueJac]

119. I am just sick of the Bush-Clinton kingdom..............

[niceypoo]

130. Bill Clinton did what Bush is doing?

Reeeeeally? Ya don't say??

[softwarevotingtrail]

120. Not to mention the fact that she has Rupert Murdock in her corner

The Global Corporatist Machine (GCM) is in Hillary's corner because they figure she's unelectable, so the Republican candidate will then win by default. If for some odd reason she DOES win, they figure she is malleable enough to do their bidding regardless.

It's great to support Head Start and Better Sidewalks and all of the feel-good programs that Hillary backs. But what about the BIG stuff - civil liberties, invasions of sovereign nations w/o justification, "preventative" wars? On all of these issues, Hillary has been squarely on the side of the military-industrial complex and political opportunism -- and on the WRONG side of history.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Count]

123. True, but she scares me less than more war-like Dem candidates (IWR sponsors)

who - with the same voting record as her have shown even more willingness to start new wars


http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Edwards_Iran_must_know_world_wont_0123.html

[softwarevotingtrail]

127. Why talk about attacking Iran?

Saber-rattling directed toward Iran is a direct plea to the pro-Israel vote in the US - which tends to skew to the Democrats overwhelmingly.

[slick8790]

128. Honestly?

I don't want any candidate I plan to vote for to say ANYTHING is off the table, in regards to anything. Pelosi said impeachment was off the table when they took control, and now if they want to, they're putting a major foot in their mouth (personally, i think it's time they should). Similarly, I don't want any candidate to say "i will never do such and such". I'll look at their other positions and actions, and then decide if I can trust them to make that decision. In John Edwards' case, I feel I can trust him to do everything possible before a military option. Perhaps you feel differently, but that's your prerogative.

[The Count]

136. Why can you trust him? because he apologized for IWR then started threatening Iran?

At least with Hillary I know Bill resisted PNAC. (I don't want her, but that's why I distrust her less than "I love wars" Edwards)

[ComerPerro]

131. Hatred of Hillary is the one thing that unites Dems and FReepers

[slick8790]

135. Exactly.

We'd have to be nuts to nominate her with so much hate from both sides.

[politicalhumor]

134. What should really scare liberals...

What should really scare liberals is when people like Gravel start eating on their own. The more time clowns like him spend talking about how Democrats scare him, as opposed to say, the field of right-wing nutcases running for president, the more likely it is that the left will once again tear itself apart. It's called giving aid and comfort to the enemy.