"All the memories are gone" . . .Lake Tahoe fires burn on

[Bluebear]

MEYERS, Calif. - A raging wildfire near Lake Tahoe on Monday forced hundreds of residents to flee towering flames that destroyed more than 200 buildings, turned the sky orange and fouled the lake's famously clear waters with falling ash.

Many hotels offered free rooms as families clung to one bit of good news: Despite the destruction, there were no reports of injuries.

"All the memories are gone," said Matt Laster, a legal assistant forced to flee his rented home of five years with his wife, two young children and cat. He showed up at a recreation center looking for clothes and a sleeping bag....

Anxious residents barred from returning to the fire-damaged area jammed the lobby of Lake Tahoe Community College in South Lake Tahoe, hoping to get word from authorities on whether their homes were still standing. Some left in tears; others were thankful to have escaped the worst. Cathy Martin of South Lake Tahoe e-mailed her son, a Marine serving in Iraq, to tell him about the fire. "We're very lucky that we are safe," said Martin, whose home was not damaged. "But I'm telling you this is awful for this community."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070626/ap_on_re_us/wildfires

[tomreedtoon]

1. Excuse me...aren't these RICH people we're talking about?

I know, they're human beings too...but they're better prepared for such a disaster than if, say, my duplex caught fire and I lost everything. They undoubtedly have insurance.

I remember a local news story about a woman whose house was hit by lightning. She lived in a neighborhood where, the reporter observed, the average home price was one million dollars. After evacuating her most valuable posessions (her dogs) she was put up by the Red Cross.

Think about that. She had neighbors in One Megabuck houses, who couldn't even let her sleep on the couch. And she couldn't get a freaking hotel room on her Visa card.

I would be more troubled and outraged at a tenement fire, with people affected who had NO backup.

[Bluebear]

2. Yeah, excuse you. You're all heart.

Every disaster discussed here needs some asshole who downplays someone's heartache because they are rich... or they got themselves in their own predicament... or some other bullshit that didn't need to be put into print.

[karlrschneider]

7. The point is that people who choose to live in areas that are susceptible to

natural disasters shouldn't be surprised (or begging for commiseration - not to say these folks are, though) when it happens. I live smack in the middle of tornado alley - if my house gets blown away, I'll just say (assuming I survive),
"shit happens." No person around Tahoe has been hurt let alone killed by that fire. Excuse me if I don't shed a lot of tears about what has happened to the property in what has been accurately described as a "resort area."

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[WildEyedLiberal]

10. I don't suppose you "shed a lot of tears" for the Katrina refugees, either

After all, living on the Gulf Coast, you'd have to be an idiot to not know that you face the risk of your home being washed away by a Cat 5 hurricane. :eyes:

[karlrschneider]

17. Oh, give me a fucking break.

There is NO reasonable comparison between the Tahoe and the NOLA situations. Many thousands of NO residents have been there for their whole lives. They didn't buy property there to use as a vacation 'cabin' for a million bucks.
I would rather visit New Orleans (and have, probably 50 times) and interact with some real genuine people who live there than spend one minute on the shores of Lake Tahoe which is 99% populated by very wealthy people who actually "live" somewhere else. I have flown a LOT of people into the airport there and have been invited to their "cabins", every one of which I ever saw make my modest home look like a cardboard box by comparison.

[WildEyedLiberal]

22. So your sympathy for people depends on their income

Duly noted.

I'm not going to "give you a fucking break" because the logic is exactly the same - if the people in Tahoe deserve no sympathy because they should "expect" to lose their homes in a forest fire, then by extension people who live in hurricane prone areas should "expect" to lose everything they own, too.

But at least now we know that you don't think people who live in Tahoe are "real, genuine people."

[Bluebear]

25. PS, who cooks the meals, cleans houses, waits tables at Harrah's in Tahoe?

Everyone up there must be rich, rich, rich, rich and totally undeserving of empathy. :eyes:

Can you believe people sometimes?

[WildEyedLiberal]

27. Every time I think I've seen the worst DU has to offer, something surprises me

I'm not sure what appalls me more: the idea that rich people are utterly undeserving of any sympathy for their loss, or the ridiculous and extremely stupid idea that EVERYONE who lives in the path of this fire is some kind of Club Med ubermillionaire Bush Pioneer.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[cboy4]

56. Oh my gosh WEL....if it's not ridiculing people who've lost

everything to fire, it's blasting mountain climbers for getting lost.

And who can forget the San Francisco father who got lost in Oregon with his family. You would have thought he was satan, the way people here called him every name in the book.

Oh yes, and when the crocodile hunter died, he had it coming to him because he tortured wildlife.

I just don't understand how one can consider themselves a Democrat/Liberal/Progressive, and have such a lack of compassion for humanity.

I could live to ah thousand, and still not understand it.

So, I agree: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[WildEyedLiberal]

57. They calculate the amount of compassion a victim deserves based on a cold political calculus

Which in my estimation makes them no different from freepers, who constantly say that they wish al Qaeda would bomb San Francisco and kill all the dirty libruls.

For example:

Displaced New Orleans Katrina refugees - 1) poor 2) black 3) largely Democratic voters

Therefore, deserving of extreme, utmost sympathy. (Which nobody with a soul would argue with.)

But on the other hand, the Tahoe evacuees - 1) (Presumed) rich 2) (presumed) white 3) (presumed therefore) Republican

So instead of sympathy, they get scorn, mockery, and derision.

It's disgusting, hypocritical, and cruel. Not to mention wrong - according to all accounts the people in Tahoe are NOT rich, and probably not uniformly white or Republican. But the haters had concocted this little sick fantasy of all these rich suburban SUV driving Republicans with their million-dollar vacation timeshares and were too busy laughing at these make-believe victims getting their due to consider that their little hateful revenge fantasy was not only callous, but factually incorrect.

And for the other instances... there are a lot of people who really think it's fun to show how "smart" they are by ridiculing people who died through some consequence of their own actions whether deliberate or accidental... such as the hikers or the man who died in Oregon. Because it makes them feel better about themselves, because of course THEY are too smart to hike on Mt. Hood in winter, or take a wrong turn down a mountain road, or what have you... it's a disgusting display of arrogance and faux superiority and displays an absolute disconnect from human tragedy that I find disturbing.

It really sucks around here sometimes. But you're one of the good guys, cboy, so don't let the assholes get you down. :hug:

[cboy4]

59. Perfectly, perfectly said. You're the best. :)

:hug:

[tomreedtoon]

75. You want to put your hand in a wood chipper...

...then the chips fall where they may.

You're assuming that people who put themselves deliberately into possibly bad situations, who theoretically have an ounce of sense, deserve the same sympathy as people who get hit by tragedy.

A person who lived in New Orleans, who lost his home and family, who had no insurance (or insurance that proved to be no good) is a victim and deserving of sympathy and support. And if he was lied to by Bush and the government, he took them at good faith and got further screwed, he deserves retribution.

A rich guy - who probably made a fortune exploiting that guy in New Orleans or someplace similar - who loses his vacation home, his THIRD or FOURTH home that he fully owns, who is inconvenienced for a weekend by the loss, doesn't deserve anywhere near that level of sympathy.

Excuse me for interrupting you. You're undoubtedly busy putting together a care package for Warren Buffett and Dick Cheney, who lost homes in Aspen.

[EFerrari]

33. When Doug played Harrah's, we stayed at the Blue Jay Lodge

because they had kitchenettes there and I could burn stuff and avoid those $5 lattes. I walked to the market a few blocks down the road and walked back with our groceries but, I guess we were rich for the week. :rofl:

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cboy4]

55. How dare you speak that way to one of the nicest, most compassionate

people at DU.

You really should consider professional help.

[WildEyedLiberal]

58. Awww geez... now I'm blushing

:blush:

:hug:

Hah, I get involved in so much crap in GD I certainly don't feel like one of the nicest people here. But I'm glad you think so and honored to call you a friend. :)

[Quantess]

62. Okay, so this doesn't compare to Katrina.

It doesn't.
Does that make you happy, you sick ****?

Personally, I wish that all of our armed forces were dedicated to making the gulf coast restored to its proper splendor and beauty. I'm talking about New Orleans!
But, Lake Tahoe is a beautiful place and the people who live there are at the mercy of flames, right now. Can you not have a little compassion for the people? And the deer, and the ocelots, and other wildlife?

[EFerrari]

16. That would pretty much take care of most of California.

And, yes, thanks, my family is okay so far.

[WildEyedLiberal]

23. Of course they are, they live in Tahoe so they must be millionaires!!

Who cares if their home burns down... they can just charge a stay at some posh resort on their Plantinum Visas! It'll be like a vacation even!!!!

:rofl: to keep from :cry:

[EFerrari]

28. Doug played Tahoe a hundred times when we were married.

I spent each of those weeks with working people. There must be rich people around there somewhere, but I never met any local ones.

His mom retired there on her modest pension about five years ago. Shame on her for retiring to a resort area for rich people. I guess if her place burns down, she had it coming. :wow:

[WildEyedLiberal]

36. Doesn't she know she has to consult DU for a list of the Acceptable Progressive Places to Live?

A list which is apparently arrived at by some kind of perverse combination of voting trends, average annual income, and propensity for natural disaster. :eyes:

[uppityperson]

38. And sign the form that says...

In case of natural disaster everyone else can say "told you so".

[cboy4]

60. ...

:spray:

[uppityperson]

69. I am tired of people saying uncompassionate things.

Tired of the "you are rich, you have insurance, you shouldn't have been there, how dare you want ME to have to reimburse you" (told you so) stuff. I really am.

[cboy4]

71. I hear you uppity

:)

[uppityperson]

70. dupe.

[senseandsensibility]

46. Yes, for those of us that have

been to Tahoe multiple times, the idea of everyone there being rich is laughable. It's a sure sign that the person doesn't know what they're talking about. We always meet the people that work in the casinos and find out how they live, plus we have friends who work there. I hope your MIL's house is okay.

[XOKCowboy]

39. Not to mention...

these people chose to live there because it is in the "pristine" forest and it is "so beautiful". In reality, thanks to fire suppression policies over the years that pristine forest has become a tinder box. A catastrophic fire around Tahoe has been forecast and dreaded for years by fire officials. Now it's here and we're reaping what we've sown.

I got slammed last night for saying that I didn't consider a wildfire in Tahoe as a castrophe. I should have qualified that. In terms of people losing possessions it is an immense tragedy. In terms of the forest it's a boon. Fire is part of nature. The forest will be back and stronger than ever in time. As I said then, I still hope that everyone gets out safely and no one gets hurt.

I have one other thing to say. I have a very good friend who's an elite firefighter who fights wildfires all over the west. For all I know he's fighting this fire (he's fought Tahoe area fires before). Let's keep them in our thoughts tonight OK.

[EFerrari]

48. Will do. Grateful to him and to all our firefighters working tonight.

Be safe, guys.

I still remember the year I drove into Yosemite and it was still smoking. Maybe 1990 or so? It was awesome and humbling to see the forest taking care of itself.

[WildEyedLiberal]

21. Some people constitutionally CANNOT resist the impulse to be assholes at the most inappropriate time

I can't imagine being so bitter that the first thought that popped into my head upon hearing about a tragedy is "better them than me, they can afford it," as if losing everything you own is merely a matter of dollars and cents... or, worse yet, "they were stupid enough to live in a forest/tornado alley/the Gulf Coast so they deserve to have their homes burned/destroyed/washed away."

It is disgusting and callous to the extreme.

[ljm2002]

3. Well, being rich does not protect you from Mother Nature...

...and one of the people quoted in the original post is a renter, so I don't think that all of the victims are rich.

[AlCzervik]

4. no they are not all wealthy, many peole bought those homes years ago

just because you live in a resort area doen't make you rich. The local news covered this for almost the whole broadcast and it's really bad, 165 homes confirmed gone, could be as high as 220.

[Mind_your_head]

40. That's TRUE! Many people bought those places years ago.....

and it wasn't the place that it is 'considered' today back then. My aunt & uncle own a place up there....that they bought 40 years ago. My uncle (blue-collar worker) soon after became 'unemployed', but they spoke w/the developer about their situation and made an arrangement for payments to begin again w/in 12 months (which they struggled to do & DID).....they had arranged for two lots, but b/c of the unemployment had to sell off the one and kept the other (better) one.......

They were just being smart, playing by the rules.....they 'gave' some.....they 'got' some.......No one could've predicted how it would all go with real estate in that area. Just like you can't predict it now! (If you think that's not true, than you KNOW which areas will be 'hot' in 40 years, so START BUYING NOW @ bargain prices...and "hold")

[AlCzervik]

44. we were actually there on fathers day, i was shocked when i saw the coverage yesterday.

[Mind_your_head]

50. Hugs to you

:hug:

[EFerrari]

51. It's so beautiful there. When we were lucky enough to get a week

up there, I used get up early, walk around the lake and just try to be there with it all.

[Mind_your_head]

52. Did you walk all around the lake?

[EFerrari]

53. No, lol, but as far as I could. I had to be on tap and so,

the getting up early to have some time to just tramp around.

:)

[uppityperson]

5. No, they aren't all rich, and even those that are, so?

I wonder if the renters had insurance? Some may not. As far as being outraged and troubled at a tenement fire, this post is on this fire. Express sorrow for these people here and go start another thread on a tenement fire.

[karlrschneider]

9. You wonder, then you go on to say many don't. In other words, you have no idea.

Want to sell a subscription to that crystal ball?
:eyes:

[uppityperson]

15. edited, wrote too fast. Sure, I'm physic! Is that better compassionate Karl?

double eye rolly back

[karlrschneider]

26. What do you want from me? Some sort of admission that middle-class people

should be exempted from using common sense...that living in a fully-fueled forest is a recipe for fire? I accept the risks of tornadoes and know that shit happens. What exactly are you proposing, a 100% guarantee of absolute safety and/or total compensation for whatever mother nature throws at us? That's pretty dumb, if I may be blunt.
:eyes:

[uppityperson]

30. No, I am expressing sorrow at what has happened to these people

No 100% safety, that seems to be your thing (living in a forest, fully fueled is bad, unlike living in tornado alley). No, not proposing total compensation, just proposing some empathy and compassion for having their homes burn down. I don't know where the hell you get whatever you seem to be trying to argue with me, it sure isn't me. Speaking of dumb.

[EFerrari]

41. What does this have to do with middle class people?

Your fellow human beings are losing their homes to fire. :wtf:

[Truthiness Inspector]

13. Not that it matters but there are lots of non-rich people there

Many houses are small A-frame ones, with no frills.

But even if it was "only" rich people, why would that make a difference as far as loss, damage, stress, fear?

[EFerrari]

18. Most of the people who live in resort areas are working people.

For christ's sake.

[Truthiness Inspector]

20. Yup. n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

42. Yup, you said it!

My Mom works as a volunteer tax preparer for the ARRP every year she has lived in Tahoe -- they have a free tax preparation program for seniors and low income people. She gets to meet all of those working people, from the waiters to dishwashers to groomsmen for the ski parks to the blackjack dealers to the cleaning women to the grocery checkers to the seniors on fixed incomes. She also volunteers for a program to provide heating wood for low income people. She delivered wood to over 100 families last year.

The truly rich who live here full time are few and far between. You are most likly to meet a working class person trying to make it on the federal minimum wage in this town. And if you work a job that has health benefits and honors "right to work" (no such thing on the Nevada side) you have hit the goldrush.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

14. You might want to know what the fuck you are talking about...

before you post.

My Mom lives in Tahoe and we have been coming here as a family since I was a small girl. Contrary to your belief, most of the people who lived in the effected areas are working class locals and retirees who have owned their homes for many years before the recent real estate frenzy. Regular working people with families. Tahoe is a small town and Mom knows many of those who lost their homes -- rich? -- not a fucking chance.

There are Silicon Valley nouveau riche who have come here and jacked up the prices for the regular folks who actually live here, but they are the exception here, not the rule.

You wanna see how the "rich" -- like those who lost their houses and my Mom, who almost lost hers -- live here in Tahoe? It's in little cabins like this one, and apartments and trailer parks and, yes, even duplexes.



And while you're at it, look at these pictures I took the night the fire broke and tell me you'd wish this on even a "rich" person:

[Bluebear]

19. HHNF...please know MOST of us have been following the story with great interest

I am sick for the people who must be just horrified by this.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

31. I know, it just burns me...

when people make assumptions -- and really stupid ones, to boot. :hi:

My "resort" experience of spending summers in Tahoe involved lots of camping, roasting marshmallows, playing at the beach, riding my bike, and hiking. It was a very big deal when we finally got to rent a little cabin for a week.

I don't think I've yet had the pleasure of experiencing the "resort" side of Tahoe -- maybe one of these days, when I am one of those dreaded "rich people"! :P

[WillyT]

34. Ya Mean When We Were Helping Your Mom Paint Her House, She Wasn't Rich ???

Oh Hell, Hell...

I thought it was a DU tradition, to pay penance for our liberal ways to RICH Heiresses like you and your mom. If all the DUers that came up to HELP PAINT YOUR MOTHERS HOUSE that weekend would have known she wasn't rich, we'd have volunteered to wash the windows at Hearst Castle instead!

AAAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!! :argh:

Man... certain people should really THINK before they post that sort of shit!

How are you doing? Is your mom OK? Please send her our love.

Folks, I've been goin up to the Tahoe area almost my entire 51 years. And other than lake-front, and numerous gated enclaves, MOST of the Tahoe region is populated by regular hard working folk. And THIS fire, is NOT in one of those rich enclaves. This fire is taking away a whole lot of hopes and dreams from people just like yourselves. So please... a little understanding and mercy if you would!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

45. HA! We sure fooled YOU! :D

Bwaaahaaaaaa!!!!!!!!

HA!

Well, aside from almost losing the house last night, we are doing pretty good! Mom's had loads of health issues and I've spent much of the past year+ taking care of her and the house. I put down a new floor last month and have started on remodeling the kitchen -- I'm one of those Paris Hilton's who likes to dirty her French tips a little. :D

Doesn't the house look so nice now after the paint job??? And I finally got the front garden close to how Mom wants it -- a few more years and it will have matured nicely.

It's summer time in Tahoe -- I think I can see a BBQ in the future! We can lower ourselves and invite of few of the rabble. Waddya think???

XOXOX :hugs:

Hell

[EFerrari]

47. You sound good.

:hug:

[WillyT]

49. Count This Rabble IN !!!

Would absoLUTELY love too!

Hey... and we could polish your silver while the food's cooking! :rofl:

Internet {{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}} to you and your mom. Please tell her I said hello.

And... you name the time, I'll bring the wine!

:bounce::hi::bounce:

:loveya:

[proud patriot]

74. all I know is your mom taught me how to make chicken

the most delicious chicken in the world ...

the paint job looks great .. we didn't that good of a job did we?

it seemed so rushed .. oh well

[cboy4]

63. What are you talking about?? That's a rich person's house!!

:sarcasm:

[proud patriot]

72. hey Hell

The paint job looks great ..

Give your mom my best

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cboy4]

54. No, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

You should stop now before you embarrass yourself further.

By the way, your lack of compassion makes me ill. :puke:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

67. Umm... fuck you?

What an assholish comment.

[Bridget Burke]

68. "The burned neighborhoods included million-dollar vacation homes, cabins and modest houses..."

"...strung along the east side of the ridge."

Read the story at the link before you mouth off.

[kineneb]

6. any fire destroys so much

I lived in the Bay Area when the big Oakland fire happened. Yes, some of the homes were very expensive, but when many were originally purchased, they were quite modest homes. Some that burned were designed by Julia Morgan and other architects that later became famous. Those houses can never be replaced.


I feel so sorry for the folks up there. Not all are rich. And now so many will have to start over with nothing, not even extra underwear. Think about loosing everything you own within an hour. No matter whether it was a mansion or a hut, it is gone, and everything you own with it. Clothing, bedding, dishes, cookware, and so on. Those things take time and money to replace. Never mind that which cannot be replaced: large antique family photos, grandma's rocking chair, the afghan from you aunt, the cup you you used as a child. Gone up in flames and smoke.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

24. Many of those effected by the Angora fire...

DID lose everything. My Mom and I went to the evacuation center after being forced to leave her home due to the fire and there were plenty of people there who were depending on the Red Cross and the local community for help because they had walked away from their homes with nothing. Around 100 stayed at the center over night and others were given free hotel rooms. Lucky people like me were taken in for the night by friends.

When we got the word to evacuate, we had to make those choices of what to bring. We left with our cats, our medications, my Grandma's photo album, and Mom's CPU. That was it. Not even a change of clothes or a toothbrush.

I did speng a great deal of time thinking about what we'd left behind, but when a forest fire is only three blocks from your house, you grab what you can and get the hell out of Dodge.

[EFerrari]

37. I'm so sorry.

:hug:

:cry:

[uppityperson]

32. It's not just the stuff, but the memories and history.

[EFerrari]

43. Geezus, just the trauma of having a home one moment

and then not having one -- that'll do anyone pretty good even without thinking longterm backwards and forwards. :(

[cboy4]

61. So, so sad. :(

[Bluebear]

64. What kind of iceberg can see those pictures & feel nothing for those people? nt

[cboy4]

65. I can name one person, but this person gets most of this

person's posts deleted because of this person's nasty anti-social behavior problem.

[JNelson6563]

66. These fires always break my heart

So many reasons to mourn! The loss of trees and animal habitat, along with animals who don't make it out. Then there's the human factor! So glad to hear so far no one's been hurt. I hope it stays that way!

My heart goes out to the families who are dealing with this! :grouphug:

May the brave firefighters end this nightmare soon and all come home alive!

Julie

[Squatch]

73. I have never seen a thread go from 0 to FLAME as quickly as this one

Bravo! :toast: