Exactly WHAT is stopping us from stopping them?

[Philosoraptor]

A rabid ape and a vile pig are about to kick off Armageddon for real, and the Good Germans are all standing around asking the same surreal question: 'Why doesn't someone do something and stop these madmen'? And the answer, for all the good it is, might as well be blowin' in the wind.

It's almost as if all of us, every single one of us, including me, live under the illusion that there is no way to stop these two monsters from doing whatever the fuck they want. Volumes upon volumes of excuses and fancy explanations as to why we can't do a damn thing about these two maniacs, but no one wants to really stop them apparently.

bush met with the Democrats, cracked pathetic jokes, faked bipartisanship, and in general attempted to appear sane for a few minutes in public, but I saw no congress person step up to the maniac and scream in his face, or call him an idiot, or give him the slightest bit of flack, all of them knowing full well that he and his master the emperor are literally about to set off the planet in war upon war.

I know screaming in the president's face isn't fashionable, and it may draw some criticism from the politeness police, but there they stood, our Democratic representatives, playing nice with the most dangerous man to ever live, literally, and it's all smiles and handshakes and applause. I want to vomit.

We must all play by the rules and by-laws you know, even though the two monsters don't, they just spit in our faces, ignore us, and hold us in utter contempt.

EVERY SECOND THIS INSANITY CONTINUES SHAMES US ALL.

And how come every time someone brings up the fact that all someone has to do is stop them, they automatically assume you are talking about violent revolution, it needn't be, all we have to do is show up at the white house in VERY LARGE numbers and simply stay there a while.

What exactly would happen if we did that? No threats, no violence, just show up and demand to speak to the rabid ape and the vile pig to tell them that it's all over, right here, and right now. Do you think they'd order us shot down like dogs?

Is our military prepared to turn the gun turrets on US, their own sisters and brothers and mothers and fathers at the orders of the rabid ape and the vile pig? Is that what would happen? Do you think they'd fire off a couple warning shots? Or maybe take out a few people Kent State style?

Is this too frantic a scenario to believe? Could something like this ever happen? In my opinion, something like this is getting ready to happen real soon, because they are hell bent to conquer Earth, they live under the illusion that such a thing is possible, while we live under the illusion that there is nothing we can do to stop them.

"I" can't stop the rabid ape and the vile pig, and neither can you, but "WE" can. It's coming to that. It's coming to the point where they must literally be stopped, whether we like it or not, it's coming, and it will most likely be this year.

We have only just seen the tip of the iceberg in regard to what these two dangerous wretches have in store for America and the world, any fool can see where this is all headed, and the time to stop them IS coming.

[darkstar7646]

1. The fact that they believe in their lives more than their beliefs or their jobs...

I am of the opinion that the Congress knew it was attacked by the Bush-led 9/11, and by the Bush-led anthrax attacks, and of the real cause of the death of Paul Wellstone.

These people are either going to play ball, or they are going to die. It's that simple. I believe they, too, have been shown the writing on the wall.

[candidate]

4. Oh please

Don't bring your conspiracy theorist BS into the argument. The Bush administration has fouled up everything they ever tried to accomplish and has never been correct on ANY issue...and you seriously think they could have pulled off an attack like 9/11?

The fact is, the Bush administration knew that Al Qaeda was planning an attack for 8 months, and they did nothing. And in the years before that, congressional GOPers and the Pentagon fought tooth and nail against Clinton taking action against bin Laden and implementing anti-terrorist legislation like the 1996 omnibus terrorist bill.

That doesn't mean that Bush's people orchestrated it, it means that they fucked up big-time in their defense of this country.

[darkstar7646]

5. Yes, I do... Under cover that they appear to be that fouled up...

I think one thing which has been under-estimated about these people is the question of what, exactly, they would declare success.

I do think Bush himself is quite the idiot, yes. But the people under him have been planning this for quite a few years (see my feelings on how they've compromised Hillary), and they're getting what they want.

To them, what is going on for them is complete success. I just think you underestimate what these people want and the means they are willing to use to get them.

I don't think they simply _knew_ al Qaeda was planning the attack. I believe they were co-participants. I think, for what they wanted to do (research what PNAC wants to do sometime), they needed 9/11 and a fascist state.

That fourth plane was headed to Congress. What if it succeeded?

[bobthedrummer]

7. ? You're stipulating LIHOP by default. I'm a LIHOPer.

Then you start in with the CT BS.

The BFEE was installed-it was not elected. The election of 2000 was stolen by the antics in Florida authorized by a SCOTUS that was biased to the RW.

I'm a conspiracy realist, and don't believe in the other CT, coincidence theories, not when it comes to the anthrax attacks and the fact, which you stipulated, that there were plenty of warnings prior to 9/11.

The 107th Congress was passing quaint pieces of paper (that had been crafted for years by the RW/PNAC crew) that overrode our US Constitution and Bill of Rights in a foreign building because the normal work place was a HOT ZONE-and still no arrests in that.

Welcome to DU.

[darkstar7646]

18. No, I'm not simply LIHOP...

I believe they were participants and co-conspirators. Take a long look at who was stated at being at the ranch the month Bush was on "vacation" out there in 2001, and that's about all you will need to know.

It wasn't Let It Happen On Purpose. It was a conscious and willful act.

[bobthedrummer]

37. My post was in response to candidate, post 4-not you.

:hi:

[truth2power]

65. "conscious and willful act"...yes, indeedy it was. ..

You are not alone, darkstar.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuffleClaw]

13. holy overreaction batman!

[darkstar7646]

19. I don't care how many posts I do or don't have...

What in the Hell makes you the arbiter of who is right or wrong?

The OP gave a question -- I answered it with my opinion.

[KAZ]

21. He was replying to Candidate.

And poorly, at that. Out of habit, maybe.

Welcome to DU Darkstar!

[cui bono]

12. You still think this chaos is a by product of incompetence?

Come on, have you read about PNAC? They wanted this war badly, they want chaos in the Middle East. They've stolen from our treasury with all the war profiteering going on. This is all part of the plan. They don't care if they look like they don't know what they're doing, they're laughing all the way to the bank.

[candidate]

28. Yes it IS a product of incompetence

And yes I've read PNAC.

Guess what: 9/11 was a smaller version of a massive terrorist strike that bin Laden had previously planned in 1995 called Oplan Bojinka. Luckily, it was thwarted by foreign police forces. It would have involved nearly a dozen airliners being blown up simultaneously over the sea, and several other airliners being flown into American targets, including several in DC.

When that plan failed, bin Laden had to scale his plan down and wait for the heat to wear off. When Bush assumed presidency, he got what he wanted: an airheaded leader with no foreign policy experience. It was the perfect time to strike.

[Imagevision]

34. Exactly WHAT is stopping us from stopping them? --> one word, L-E-A-D-E-R-S-H-I-P

there's no movement to stop Bush like there was to stop Nixon!

[Greyhound]

67. Never forget that in '68 and again in '72 The Party Bosses made it clear

that they would rather have a re:puke: in office than surrender, even a little of "their" power, I can assure you that our current crop of candidates have not. Remember how drastically Obama changed his tune after he got The Talk with the party leadership in '04?

[candidate]

2. The dems still have some time to do the right thing and impeach 'em all

But not THAT much time. I've been wondering the same thing as you, though.

LMAO, it's not as if we don't have anything on Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the monkeys.

Anyway, Bill Clinton is proof that any president can be impeached for ANYTHING, no matter how inconsequential or mundane.

[darkstar7646]

3. I think it's down to, maybe, a few more weeks...

I certainly believe that something is going to happen this spring or summer. I was thinking later in the year, but no longer believe Bush can hold the facade that much longer.

[blues90]

6. I wish I had the answer

I know many here do have the answer however if you did express your true feelings with intent then you will most likely get a visit .

It seems insane that with most of the people against this horrid team of criminals that there is a protocall to be followed when they make up their own rules and we all know this .

I doubt just showing up in great numbers in front of the white house even for months would do much good of have any effect on stoppint them .

Americans have lost much of the revolutionary mindset they had many years ago . I am certain there are certain groups out there who are ready to revolt , we know they exist .

Most of the holdback may be the fear of being the first one to react .

As far as the military taking action who knows what brand of the military secures the whitehouse or guards the powers at be .

With the millions who don't want this Iraq killing spree or another attack on Iran who are against just a few in control it does seem insane .

Also with bush giving his few minutes with the dems and pelosi shaking hands with bush along with the proper way to act , well it is well past time for proper behavior by the dems , this only tells me and reinforces it's all a game to them .

Sure dems and a few repubs voice anger in their hearings but the anger fades away and here we are still waiting for the bombs to drop on Iran .

It seems like we just wait for the day we hear on the news , we have attacked Iran and then what ? It's like an old bald tire just waiting for that one nail in the road to cause the "accident " then bang !

[rodeodance]

8. 2008

[helderheid]

43. World Can't Wait

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. The unknown fear lingers in the shadows:

Access to oil. We really don't know how much the Saudi's are pulling the strings, and, my guess is that if we really know all the dirty tricks our CIA, military-industrial complex and oil business were involved in, theoretically at the behest of our better good, the whole house of cards will fall. Hell, the public might demand a socialist response to make amends for capitalist dirty tricks. Horrors.

[quiet.american]

10. There's no doubt in my mind citizens would be tasered and shot.

It's already happened at peaceful demonstrations. And it didn't take the military to do it.

[TahitiNut]

20. That's exactly why massive non-violent civil disobedience is necessary,

Until our bodies are bleeding in the streets, we don't deserve democracy. How many hundreds of thousands of people more in other countries must die for our cowardice?

[moodforaday]

60. Right now

I think the only thing that would stop it - maybe - is a human shield around Tehran. Made of many, many thousands of Americans and Europeans, because US and EU media won't care about anybody else. That, or a massive disobedience in the military, which I don't think is likely - if it were likely, you'd have seen it about Iraq already, instead of the slow trickle of folks dropping out of sioght in Canada.

[Greyhound]

63. Once again you've nailed it. You've also pointed out exactly why it won't happen.

We are determined to pretend ignorance to our unsustainable lifestyle. We are so incredibly selfish that, even though we know we're endangering our children's future and assuring that they will live under the yolk, we just don't care. We will not make the changes or pay the price until it forced on us.

Simple and sad.

[Hardrada]

14. What about the concept of a non-violent General Strike

when everything just stops? That is a fine option no one for some reason EVER talks about!

[Skidmore]

17. Every 3-4 months I bring a general strike up and it gets shot down

and I watch the thread sink into oblivion. I don't know why beyond that too many people fear the man.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I have spoken abuot it as well

and yep same result, people fear the idea I guess

[AndyTiedye]

24. That is Why They Have Outsourced Everything

[Hardrada]

27. Not transportation or communications, education, security,

Lots of essential stuff still here. And there are still plants and factories that could shut down.

[Greyhound]

64. See my reply to TahitiNut above. As a society, we are simply unwilling

to make even the most petty sacrifice to make the changes that are required (as evidenced by the utter failure of "not one damn dime day" even here in this bastion of "liberalism").

A general strike would wreak havoc with the economy and scare the ruling class into action and I think most of us realize, and are terrified by this, though most won't admit it. We've witnessed 40 years or more of the constant erosion of our national character, sacrificed what we know to be right on the alter of "making it", and mortgaged the lives of future generations, all so that we can pretend to not know what is going on.

[brentspeak]

15. What the heck are you blathering on about??

[Philosoraptor]

40. If you gotta ask, you'll never know.

[HuffleClaw]

16. i think you'd need at least a million people for such an idea to have

any chance of success. and would the media bother to give it fair coverage? the biggest anti-war protest during the vietnam war was in 1969 in DC and had about 300 000 people.

[alittlelark]

36. Do you really believe that the largest VIETNAM

protest was UNDER 300,000? If you believe that you are DEVOID of REALITY.

[scarletwoman]

22. The only way "WE" could stop them -- maybe -- would come at a high personal price.

And it's not something that could be organized on the internet.

It's clear that no one working within the current political system is going to "stop them". It's also clear that no amount of legally-permitted street marching is going to "stop them".

So that leaves... what? American Revolution v.02? Are there enough of us?

sw

[TahitiNut]

52. Exactly.

There're no two ways about it, I'm afraid.

[scarletwoman]

54. I've thought about this alot -- what would it REALLY take for "us" to "stop them"?

Imho, the only way it could actually be done would involve people absolutely dedicating their entire lives to it. As in, giving up everything -- quitting your job, selling your house, find new homes for your pets, writing your will, etc. -- and going underground. A REAL underground: an underground railroad kind of underground, a French Resistance kind of underground, a well-hidden guerilla cells kind of underground.

Obviously, something like that can NOT be organized from the comfort of our keyboards and monitors. You'd be busted as "terrorists" faster than you can say "Patriot Act".

But that's what I think it really comes down to. Hoping for change through electoral politics is a laugh, our "elected" officials are owned by the very system that needs to be confronted and changed.

So, unless there's a way to move a significant number of people from the fantasy activism of online bitching to making the deadly serious committment to acts of civil disobedience, monkeywrenching, and whatever else might be necessary -- putting their bodies and lives on the line -- "stopping them" is NOT going to happen.

sw

[ms liberty]

23. I agree...

would they listen to a several million of us?

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Only if the WHI is surrounded, and DC paralyzed and we do

NOT move.

[bridgit]

25. the will to do so...

[AndyTiedye]

26. Actually, Bulldozers Seem to be the Flavor of the Month

Do you think they'd order us shot down like dogs?

Is our military prepared to turn the gun turrets on US, their own sisters and brothers and mothers and fathers at the orders of the rabid ape and the vile pig? Is that what would happen? Do you think they'd fire off a couple warning shots? Or maybe take out a few people Kent State style?

[scarletwoman]

56. "Is our military prepared to turn the gun turrets on US, their own sisters and brothers...?"

Wrong question. It won't be "our" military, it will be Blackwater. And the answer is "yes", they WILL "turn the gun turrets on US", without a second thought.

"Our" military, our brothers & sisters and sons & daughters and mothers & fathers -- the ones who might NOT be "prepared to turn the gun turrets on US", are being kept busy on the other side of the world.

sw

[moodforaday]

62. Bulldozers and this:

BBC NEWS | Americas | US military unveils heat-ray gun

The US military has given the first public display of what it says is a revolutionary heat-ray weapon to repel enemies or disperse hostile crowds.

Called the Active Denial System, it projects an invisible high energy beam that produces a sudden burning feeling.

Military officials, who say the gun is harmless, believe it could be used as a non-lethal way of making enemies surrender their weapons.

Officials said there was wide-ranging military interest in the technology.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6297149.stm

And yes, they would, because remember - they create their own reality now. It doesn't matter who the protesters are - it only matters what they get called. The T-word does wonders. "Enemy combatant" works miracles on public opinion, too.

[threadkillaz]

29. The TV.

nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Fear

Fear of loosing our jobs

Fear of loosing our identity (lost but that is another story)

Fear of loosing our lives.

I have asked in the past what are people willing to give...

[Imagevision]

33. The proble3m is "we" don't have the support from our Dems when we protest

they seem to merely observe what is happening, play a round of golf, go to lunch and kick it around until innocent people die in the effort.

As a people, they're (Hillary Obama, etc.) only saying, make your votes count!
Rove learned the lessons of the 60's, the people can't protest the way they did back then.

[Luckyduck]

35. Manchurian Democrats?

:shrug:

Does anyone believe for one second that the Republicans would allow Democrats to get away with this crap?

[Porcupine]

38. Because there is no "WE" in America. -rant warning.

Get serious. You couldn't get a thousand people in this nation willing to actually die for the greater good. I mean 100% certain death if you could stop just one nuclear bomb in Iran.

EACH of us has walked past some wretch collapsed on the sidewalk and done nothing to help. Collectively we refuse the tiny fraction of our taxes that would provide as much shelter as a storage unit and campground bathroom to fellow citizens. Do you really think we give a rat's ass if Iranians die?

I mean, it's sad and all but not nearly as important as wether horses can be used to feed French gourmets. THAT got prompt congressional action. Your neighbors, your friends, your co-workers, your brothers and sisters are kicked to the street if they develop addictions or find themselves mentally ill.

Children in your town are hungry and living in filth because we can't spare pennies from our own pockets for a reasonable public health system. We have the largest prison system in the world. Our prisons are notorious hellholes and we here on DU regularly celebrate the rape of inmates. These people are our families, american citizens families.

Why should we give a shit about the continuing, ongoing, expanding war? It's not like somebody kicked a puppy or something.

:rant:

[tomp]

50. good point! nt

[wiggs]

39. Where we are has to do with decades of planning and investment in order

to concentrate power and wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer people....the "right" kind of people. Some of those people are dems, of course. Those corporatists and empire builders who have steered us in this direction would not risk their investment merely on whether or not the GOP was in power. This scheme must work with either dems or GOP in control...and it is.

By and large, we're on our own in a situation that the constitution could not have foreseen. We thought, before 2006 elections, that things looked bleak. We were encouraged, afterward, that finally some progress was being made, at least in terms of minimum wage, stem cells, etc....the first 100 hours thing and all. But I'm not so sure that the big picture looks much different now than before November.

You have captured a sense of the serious situation we're in...and the need to match that seriousness with...something...from someone. It would be so much easier if our dc dems would do what is right.

I personally believe the neocons in office knew there would be repercussions and consequences due to their rogue actions and lies...they probably knew some would go to jail, some would be disgraced. But in their eyes, this is worth it. Trillions of dollars. Trillions. A little public anger is offset by much applause in corporate boardrooms.

They probably can't believe we've allowed them to stay in office this long, and are amazed every day that the plan is working so well.

[regnaD kciN]

41. What is stopping us? a)The Constitution. b) The Army...

Like it or not, the Constitution gives Bush broad powers as Commander-in-Chief. Once Congress has authorized military action (thank you, all you Congressional Dems who voted for the IWR :grr: ), the C-in-C has almost unchecked power as to how to carry it out. And even without Congressional approval at all, the President has the authority to use the military pretty much any way he or she wants, at least for a limited amount of time. (And hold that "limited" -- once the bullets start flying, I've never seen Congress deny a President the war authority he desired.)

Also, the Constitution provides for a fixed-length term with no provisions for ending a term prematurely except for impeachment (which requires both criminal grounds to get an impeachment and a nearly-impossible-to-achieve 67% supermajority to gain a conviction). There is no provision, such as a vote of no confidence or a recall election, to replace a disastrous administration before its term is up.

Finally, as long as the military remains loyal to either a) the current President or b) the Constitution, they're not going to stand by idly while a President is removed by force (which is the only alternative left when the Constitution gives you no such grounds). And, despite the best efforts of the NRA, they've got a lot more weaponry that we do.

[Philosoraptor]

42. Oh. I see.

Well then, that's it I guess. Nevermind.

[regnaD kciN]

45. It is what it is, whether you or I like it or not...

You asked a question; I answered it to the best of my understanding. If you don't like my answer, please provide one of your own that gets around the obstacles I mentioned. I'd be interested to read it.

[Philosoraptor]

46. I asked a question, you answered it, that's enough.

You have offered yet more excuses, and I've heard them all. You have given up, I have not. You believe there is nothing we can do, I disagree.

And don't ask me, I'm totally clueless. I am a pathetic piece of shit who sits back and offers no suggestions, and I admit it.

[Felinity]

57. Serious question

What can be inferred from the Constitution regarding an individual assuming office through election fraud?

[Festivito]

44. Democracy in action versus Oligarchy with what? 90% ownership.

Is a rule-by-the-people stronger than entrenched-inheritors/corporatists?

What stops us from stopping them, is that we do not acknowledge/realize there is a larger war beyond the battle we deem we fight.

We win the public. The public no longer believes Bush admin. We won that battle. BUT, the fight goes on. Why? Because, there is still profit to be made for the military industrial complex. Thus the bigger war of monied interests versus the people it uses, continues.

[Frank Cannon]

47. Nothing spells REVOLUTIONARY ACTION like making numerous...

lengthy posts to a discussion board where most of the participants already agree with you.

I agree that they have to be stopped, Philo, but I didn't think you're going to find many people to do it. This nation is addicted to American Idol, Paris Hilton, iPods, and various other geegaws, doodads, bimbos, and bimbettes. Americans don't want anything to intrude on the sweet little comfort zone all these "hits" provide. And like any addict MUST do to recover, I'm afraid we're all just going to have to hit rock bottom. It's kind of a defeatist attitude, but it's unfortunately true.

[Philosoraptor]

48. It's true, I have nothing to offer.

And it's true that I'm singing to the choir. You have exposed me. "I" am the problem here, not the solution. I am ashamed of myself too.

I am the defeated American, and I am ready for the concentration camps, because I actually DESERVE to be run over by fascists.

I admit, I confess, I am a Good German.

I hold MYSELF in utter contempt as well.

[RestoreGore]

51. We are on our own out here

And that was made even clearer to me by that nauseating display by Bush and the Democrats at their retreat with them fawning all over him. I am literally ILL after reading that and have NO FAITH in ANY OF THEM in Congress to do anything right by the people of this nation. I am truly convinced that short of a revolution we are destined to follow the road our forefathers wrote that Constitution to specifically keep us off of. And since revolution and violence cannot be the answer, then we must take it upon ourselves to use that Constitution to our benefit. The people need to IMPEACH ALL OF THEM and sweep that den of vipers clean on all sides. However, could we ever do that in this society we now have where television and the BS coming out of it is the only communication tool of millions being brainwashed by it daily? We have allowed this to happen and only we can reverse it. I truly believe that the day allegiance to this country and moral principle takes precedence over PARTY LOYALTY right or wrong, is the day that we will begin to see the light.

[blues90]

61. I'm afraid you are right .

I wonder if there enough people who are even close to being ready or determined to actually have to physically fight for their rights in this country or are willing to sacrifice their lives for it here at home .

To be honest I think I could but I am not entirely certain .

It takes long term rage and determination which I have , it takes being fed up with being silenced and ignored and it takes a rage that takes in not only the Iraq occupation but all other issues that americas poor and forsaken endure .

It should really only take the fact we have a dictatorship now controlling the way this country goes and also the huge corporations who profit and are the backbone allowing this sort of control .

I look around and I don;t see people even willing to drive less as if the gas comes wihout someones death or sacrifice or that it contributes to the pockets of huge corporations driving the world into extinction .

[RestoreGore]

66. yep, convenience now trumps principle

Sad sad world. Thankfully however, we are all not like that, so there is the hope.

[mdelaguna2000]

49. Good question, reasonable outrage

Keep thinking our "representatives" need to do their jobs in Washington. Great protests get little coverage and seem underenumerated in the media. Even in Mexico City after the election last year, millions of people camping in the capital for around 2 months, and to what avail? Not saying we shouldn't protest anyway, can't give up! I too found the coverage of "the visit" to the retreat somehow disturbing, and am hoping the majority does not enable the military iniatives coming forward. Perhaps we are all waiting to see what the majority will actually do about this?

[rman]

53. One is the power of a fascist state,

or "near-fascist" state if you will - close enough.

Already the Bush regime has let us know that opposing them is like supporting terrorism. I think we're just one national crisis away from complete totalitarianism.

Good question though.
And whatever they will do to try and stop us should not stop us from trying to stop them.


But before we can even begin trying to stop them we need more people to be aware - or perhaps we only need to become aware just how many people there are that oppose them. Nobody know that everybody knows because the MSM don't mention it - save for the occasional poll that shows a vast majority opposes the Bush regime and his war.

[file83]

55. Philosoraptor, those in POWER are already 2 steps ahead of you...

They'll disperse the mob with this ( Active Denial System):


After they round up the American "insurgents", they'll put them in camps:
Fema Concentration Camps: Locations and Orders

List of Camps Across the Nation

It's as if they have been preparing for this for a long time...As if they knew what they'd be up to (around now 2007) would be so unpopular that there might be an uprising/revolt. So the made the preparations.

Well, they're ready if we are.

[ninkasi]

58. What frustrates me

is that after winning control of both houses of Congress, some of us were naive enough to think that our elected representatives would heed the message we sent, and use their powers to stop the rabid ape and the vile pig. We thought that enough of us supported impeachment, and that that would give our so-called leaders the political will to begin the serious investigations, and start the process.

Instead, we hear that "impeachment is off the table", and only a few in Congress are actually brave enough to suggest cutting the purse strings. Instead, they squabble over non-binding resolutions, which accomplish nothing but providing them with a fig leaf so that when they are up for reelection, they can point proudly to their meaningless vote.

Our real power has been the power of our votes. We voted, and still don't have power. So here we are, exactly where we were before the November elections, with politicians who now technically have more power, and the ability to heed the message sent by the ones of us who voted for, and sent money to them, and they are still doing nothing.

I've felt a big letdown. I know we don't have overwhelming numbers, especially in the Senate, and that Holy Joe is more likely to vote with Republicans than with Democrats, but sheesh, couldn't the people we put in office at least try? Is it really necessary to grovel at the feet of a man who will stab them, and us, in the back every time? Couldn't they undo some of the tax breaks for the wealthy, since poll after poll shows that a majority of Americans are willing to have taxes raised to support things like health care, and Social Security?

Couldn't they at least try to stop the massive outsourcing that sends good paying American jobs to other countries? Couldn't they make it clear that they will not vote for war with Iran, or giving one red cent to pay for it? They have many, many tools, but without the spine to use them, they are doing no good. I guess that at this point, a steady message from us, we the people, to our politicians that they might have been elected this time, but we will watch, and support, candidates who will actually DO something once they are elected. Even that is heartbreaking, because by the next time elections are held, the damage will be complete, and as a democracy, we will have been defeated not by terrorists, but by a rabid ape and a vile ape. We could have done something, but not enough of us had the courage, and I include myself in that statement, since other than writing letters and making calls, and talking to my fellow citizens, and giving money, and voting, I did what I thought was in my power to change things. It wasn't enough.

[moodforaday]

59. Here's what's stopping people still

What's stopping people is the same thing that stops the masses of people from acknowledging that 9-11 was a false flag, and what stopped them from preventing the Iraq war, among other atrocities. Most people are nice. Most people are decent. And most nice and decent people cannot imagine, cannot accept, that tjose in power may be as inhuman and inhumane as they appear to be.

So you invent excuses. We were deceived about Iraq WMDs. (No we weren't, you heard Scott Ritter, ElBaradei and Hans Blix all though 2002, they were telling you the truth.) Bin Laden attacked America. (Not by himself he didn't, and by the way, if it was Bin Laden, why did we go after Saddam?) We're torturing people and sending them to be tortued - oh, it's just a few bad apples, and they're in prison already. (Rumsfeld's in jail? That would be news to me.)

And now Iran. The decent people can't fathom that after the Iraq fiasco Bush would attack Iran. They think that because they know *they* wouldn't. They know what would happen to them if they failed their jobs as badly as he failed his. But ladies and gentlemen, Bush IS GOING TO ATTACK IRAN. Listen to him. Read the signs. He's saying all the same things that he was saying about Iraq. The navy is very nearly positioned for a strike. The media are in full-compliance mode. No-one is asking real questions, or if they are, you don't hear them. Read this article by John Pilger: Iran: The War Begins http://www.ichblog.eu/content/view/300/2/ and decide for yourselves.

Personally, I think this is it. Bush is going to attack Iran and Iran will retaliate, and if neighboring countries intervene, it will be WW3. (Think Russia is going to ignore a potentially nuclear confrontation right next door?) The only way we could maybe stop it if about a million Americans and Europeans put up a human shield around Tehran and a few other locations. Which is not going to happen.

We won't stop it because we still can't believe things are as bad as they are.

[halobeam]

68. What if no one showed up for war? Well we can't do that...BUT

We can refuse to show up to vote. Not give one person to a rally... where would they campaign? Not one dime to their campaign... NOTHING. Not to ONE of them.

Let THEM choose TWO people to run a race for the primaries and BOTH HAVE TO BE FOR IMPEACHMENT AND NO MORE WAR.

Then we will pick one to stand behind, and then vote.

We are so divided.. how many resolutions are for opposition to a surge that is ALREADY A DONE DEAL? We watch them listen to their own voices in the house debating what is moot. They aren't debating what they MIGHT be able to do something in time for, which is Iran... they are NOT representing us... why do WE continue this madness of red-tape bullshit?

Drastic times call for drastic measures.

Maybe and probably there are so many holes in my ideas... but short of giving a reason to call Martial Law, or fighting with each other, what else can we do?

I like the idea of all of us Millions of us circling Iran..as human body shields.....

but I would suppose, we'd lose less life, by refusing to play the political game, by changing the rules, in a lawful and SMARTER way.


What if they tried to run an election WITHOUT the American people?

[jakem]

74. no one would notice.

What if they tried to run an election WITHOUT the American people?

they already run them without most of the american people...
i doubt anyone in power cares if even less people voted.

[Turn CO Blue]

69. Part of your OP confused me...

which one is the rabid ape and which one is the vile pig?

Bwahahahaha!

[undergroundpanther]

70. This might offer some insights

Figure out what is stopping us..

The development of human personality and its capacity for proper thinking and accurate comprehension of reality unfortunately demands overcoming comfortable laziness and applying the efforts of work and science under conditions different from those under which we have been raised, which is often linked to a certain amount of risk.

http://ponerology.blogspot.com/2006/02/genesis-of-evil-on-macrosocial-scale.html

[Imagevision]

71. If the Libby trial can prove Cheney lied us into the war it could have a strong

affecting impact against the Bush administration which is what this country needs. If Bush is exposed for the criminal he is, the chances for a successful impeachment are abundantly increased.

[Philosoraptor]

72. ?

[Philosoraptor]

73. ....?....

[BluePatriot]

75. Why? *points at thread*

"Volumes upon volumes of excuses and fancy explanations"

Come on guys, "one voice!"

I find it virtually impossible for Dems to stand under one banner...we all have our favorite pet issues, our own ideas, and we embrace diversity as our strength, but it is also our weakness if we can never get organized and say -- ENOUGH. We fear to speak with one voice because we fear we will forget to listen to the many voices of the people we fight for...We fear that any one voice or message we create will diminish those voices and messages and progressive ideas that we hold dear. It will not...it will give everything we care about as Democrats power, if we have the courage to try, and to cooperate and trust each other to create ONE MESSAGE. Let's find our one voice to get Bush out of power.

[Philosoraptor]

76. ?