Dumb Plain Dealer LTTEs, Part DLCXVI !!! ("Universal Care: Never")

[HughBeaumont]

Today's brain surgeon comes from Fairview Park, OH. It's a whole lotta stupid packed in one talking-point-laced moldy wrap of slime:

In response to letter writer Lee Kamps' plea for government-run health care ("Universal care, now," Friday):

Kamps points out that the United States is the only industrialized nation without a universal health care system, but fails to mention that the United States has the highest-quality health care in the world.

That's no coincidence.

Although the idea of the government providing health care for everyone may sound appealing, it has been proved not to work. It would accomplish nothing but lower-quality health care at a higher cost. Medicare and Veterans Affairs insurance programs cannot be run correctly, so why would we want those same people administering everyone's health care?

It doesn't work in Canada or Europe, and contrary to Michael Moore's propaganda - er, opinion - it doesn't work in Cuba, either. What makes anyone think we can make it work here?

Matthew Mingee

Fairview Park

I mean, where do you begin? Do we start with his bullshit assertion of the "highest-quality health care in the world" (W.H.O. put us at number 37, behind Canada and way behind several European nations . .. but just ahead of Cuba)? Or the "Murka's Still Nummer 1!" speculation that such a change would never work, because anything that veers from the Reagan administration's way of doing things has ALWAYS failed :eyes: ? Or the just-under-the-wire, groan-evoking dig at Michael Moore?

Ohio - the Island of the Forgotten Reagan Democrats.

[EstimatedProphet]

1. Begin at the beginning

Take each point and show how it is baltantly 180° wrong. Then, make sure it gets into the paper! Good luck!

[HughBeaumont]

5. Sunday's paper will tell the tale -

Letters like these are always blasted to pieces by minimum one, usually four enlightened readers, and this will be no exception. There's so many things wrong with it.

Unfortunately, my track record of getting letters into the PD stands at 0-4. And I had a great one in 2004 destroying Stephen Koff's article about "The Other Side of Outsourcing". That made me mad.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. "it has been proved not to work"

Start with his grammar.

[Bluebear]

12. Universal grammar now!!!

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[NewJeffCT]

23. enjoy your brief stay here...

see ya.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[blondeatlast]

29. But you crashed anyway. Hmm. nt

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Bill McBlueState]

32. it's not strictly a matter of opinion

You say in your letter,

the United States has the highest-quality health care in the world.

But according to others in this thread, the World Health Organization ranks the US 37th. There are factual ways to evaluate the quality of a country's health care, and that particular evaluation is inconsistent with the claim in your letter.

You've made a number of personal attacks in your replies here, but you haven't given us any reason to believe your claim that the quality of health care in the US is the highest in the world.

[NewJeffCT]

33. Yes, Japan is really socialist there

and Germany has that long history of attraction to socialism that started with that notorious tree-hugger Otto von Bismarck.

Why can European countries, Japan and Canada cover their whole country for half the cost and still get better results?

Why does Toyota choose Canada for a new North American manufacturing plant over the US? Why does GM make so many cars in Canada and not Detroit? Why does Pratt & Whitney make so many aircraft engines in Canada? The simple reason is that they don't have to pay for employee health care benefits in Canada. Heck, the CEO of GM went to Canada to lobby the Canadian government to strengthen their universal health care system.

[blondeatlast]

30. Hey, you are up to 4. Type fast, rimjob is counting on you. nt

[blondeatlast]

27. Yeah, buttass is doing a bang-up job spending dough the US doesn't have and won't

until my 10 year old has grandchildren.

That Clenis just blew the national budget out of the water, didn't he? :eyes:

OTOH, why should I bother with you?

[Bill McBlueState]

35. either one is correct

According to dictionary.com, the past participle of prove can be either proved or proven. Proved is listed first, though, which usually means it's the preferred form.

[NewJeffCT]

3. I hope you respond

Do you have a link to the newspaper? Would they take a response from out of state?

We rank #37, yet we spend twice as much per capita as other industrialized nations that cover all their citizens.

And, while Medicare & Veterans care have their problems, surveys have shown that Medicare is the only "insurance" plan that has over a 50% approval rating. The VHA does offer good care, once you can get into the system and much of the recent Walter Reed scandal can be traced to the fact that many services were outsourced to a Halliburton subsidiary run by Dan Quayle.

[HughBeaumont]

7. Here -

http://www.cleveland.com/letters/plaindealer/

I'm composing mine today. This cannot go unanswered.

[NewJeffCT]

9. just make sure you follow the paper's rules

for letters. I know some of the papers in my area in CT have quite different rules. One is up to 150 words; another is up to 200 words, but will run longer letters on Saturdays; while a third prefers to run letters of 300-500 words.

[NewJeffCT]

15. Here is my quickie

Matthew Mingee states the typical Dittohead Talking Points about health care, but neglects using facts to support his arguments.

The fact is that the United States ranks #37 in the world in terms of healthcare quality. In no significant category, from infant mortality to waiting times to see physicians does America even rank in the top 10. Yes, even the fabled long wait to see a doctor in Canada and France is a myth in comparison to wait times here in America.

The fact is that the United States spends twice as much per capita on health care as other industrialized nations, and those nations cover all their citizens, while 47 million Americans go uninsured.

The only health “insurance” plan that has over a 50% member approval rating is Medicare and numerous studies have shown that our veterans get better care than the population at large. Much of the Walter Reed scandal can be traced to outsourcing services to a Halliburton subsidiary run by Dan Quayle.

While Mr. Mingee is certainly entitled to his own opinion, all of the facts support the idea that universal health care would be a vast improvement over the disaster we have now.

[BOSSHOG]

4. The letter is a reflection of Mingee's education

He's a typical asshole who gets his "news" and "facts" from limbaugh, faux, worldnet daily. He probably also contributes to the Heritage Foundation. He is an arrogant, ignorant white guy who thinks white male Americans can do no wrong. Limbaugh knows there are millions of mingees out there just breathing to make him rich. Ignorant trash like mingee are what is wrong with our country.

[mattmingee]

22. Would you like to meet me?

I'd like you to know that I'm not ignorant trash as you contend I am. I think that it's pretty cool that you can jump on a website with other hate-breathing establishment-bashers and call me an asshole anonymously.

Just to clear up a few things:
I work during the day, so I don't have the opportunity to listen to Limbaugh. The very fact that you believe anyone not agreeing with you must be brainwashed by a radio deejay shows how little you think of the intellect and critical thinking skills of your fellow Americans.

I have no idea what worldnet daily or The Heritage Foundation are.

I think hard-working educated people like myself who are trying to make life better for their families are exactly what is right with this country.

Next time, try not to let a 3-paragraph editorial from a complete stranger so worked up.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Welcome to DU Matt!!

Stick around for awhile and you may learn a few things. Of course, insulting long time members is not really the best way to insure your continued welcome here.

:hi:

BTW, you are wrong about health care in the US. Wait till you get sick, then you'll understand.

[madrchsod]

6. can`t help people who are that stupid

i watched my parents go through their last years on medicare and supplemental insurance. they did`t pay a dime for just about any medical treatment. the only thing they had to pay for was their medicine. sure is a hell of a lot better than putting up with private carriers.

[NewJeffCT]

8. that's not the point, though

These sorts of lies keep circulating around and take on a grain of truth when they are not rebutted. While you may not reach the hardcore Freepers, there are plenty of moderates out there that might see it and think there is truth to it because they heard similar a few months earlier...

[madrchsod]

19. i`ve been in more dam waiting rooms in the last few years

than what i`d like to and the basic buzz is the cost of insurance --the co pay on those employed is eating up any wage gain they receive. most people have to work 4-8 hours overtime to pay for their co-pays. the firemen in our town have to pay nothing for their insurance but if they have a family of 4 its over 400 dollars a month.

[johnnie]

10. I lived in that little shittin' town for a few years when I was young

"highest-quality health care in the world"? I never go to the doctors because health care sucks. I went in for a umbilical hernia and came out with fucking Zoloft. :wtf:

[HughBeaumont]

11. Matt may be dumb, but he sure is retarded!

That city's about 10 minutes away from where I live. Adjacent to it is Westlake, one of the most Republican suburbs of Cleveland (they had a Bewsh rally where 20,000 warmonger dumbsters attended).

[OneGrassRoot]

13. Question....and sorry in advance, as I'm sure it's been answered

many, many times here at DU.

I haven't had time to research much of late, and am anxious to see "Sicko" this weekend. In the interim, however, I keep hearing that the cost of universal healthcare makes it unrealistic (????). I am not well-versed in the details of how to provide universal healthcare, I simply know our current system is not only ineffective, but criminal.

My response is always, "If we can spend billions of dollars on a war of choice which is destroying our society, we can spend money to keep our citizens healthy and work to avoid the ruling class/worker society we're rapidly becoming."

Can someone direct me to a site (or forum here at DU) where rebuttals can be found for all naysayers?

Thanks!

[NewJeffCT]

14. It's not just the cost of the war

A universal single-payer health care plan would necessitate higher taxes.

However, it would be offset by people no longer having to pay health care insurance premiums for employer-provided insurance. The employers would also make out as well, as they would no longer have to subsidize employee insurance. The average family of 4 spends nearly $1,000 per month on health care when you factor in insurance premiums, co-pays, prescription drugs, etc. So, add in a few thousand/year in extra taxes, but it is offset by wiping out $12,000 in expenses.

The US spends twice as much per capita on health care as other industrialized nations.

[Toots]

17. Most employers pay up to $700. a month for their employees health care insurance

Imagine how the price of products would fall and wages would rise if employers did not have to put out that kind of money every month..and usually they demand the employees make some sort of co-payments. If the government handled all health care issues the costs of everything would plummet. When you take the Insurance companies out of the picture costs are cut almost in half right off the bat..You use the "buy in bulk" pricing structures for medicine the cost of medicine plummets. Just do a little critical thinking and any fool can realize how wasteful our current system is and how inadequate it is as well.

[Red Zelda]

16. Cleveland...

half a million idiots and no Super Bowl rings.

[mattmingee]

25. Actually, it's less than a half-million

The population of Cleveland is now less than a half million. People are leaving in droves.

Would you like to know why?

It's because Democrats have been running this city and county for the last 25 years, and have turned the area into an overtaxed and misrun shithole. People are getting tired of the ineptness of the area's political leaders and looking for higher ground.

But you are right - we are a bunch of idiots for continuing to elect the same Democrats over and over.

[Occulus]

34. Paging Mr. Mingee...

Mr. Mingee... paging....

Your ass is being handed to you in post #20...

Paging....

[Ikonoklast]

40. Mayor Voinovich would argue that point

I do believe that he was, and still is, a brain-dead Republican do-nothing.


Manufacturing is dead in Cleveland, and nothing is taking its' place.


Doesn't matter who is in office. No jobs, people leave.

[Bill McBlueState]

36. stop.

The letter writer's not from Cleveland, he's from the suburbs.

Cleveland elects people like Dennis Kucinich to Congress, and it's only because of cities like Cleveland and Toledo that Ohio is ever in play in national elections. They're about as dark blue as they come.

On the day the 2003 invasion of Iraq began, I was driving through Cleveland and came upon a large anti-war rally. It's one of the few places in that part of the country where they hated the war before hating the war was cool.

The Browns certainly do suck, though; I agree with you there.

[NewJeffCT]

18. Update - the Cleveland paper called me back

saying they're considering my letter for publication!

[IChing]

26. Thanks Jeff, I just read it....great stuff...keep up all your great work n/t

[HughBeaumont]

20. Update again - NewJeffCT's letter made the SUNDAY PD!!!

http://www.cleveland.com/letters/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/118319225046560.xml&coll=2

See what happens when The Mighty Repuke Message Machine is challenged?

Congrats!!

Clevelanders are probably going to be wondering how someone from Connecticut heard about an LTTE from our paper. :rofl:

[Spazito]

37. Thanks for posting this!

Jeff's letter and the letter from Jean Fisher are excellent!

Well done, Jeff!

[NewJeffCT]

38. Thanks

It was something I just threw together.

[Spazito]

39. Might I just say the quality of your "threw together" letter versus

that of the writer of the letter to which you were responding is glaring in it's substance, facts and succinct text.

[HughBeaumont]

41. As usual, I missed the drama . . .

I see Mr Fairview got wind of our little home. Wonder how he was able to put 2 & 2 together (not like any Repuke can)? Can anyone who experienced the pre-tombstoning deletes tell me what the buried said to y'all?

[NewJeffCT]

42. his wife googled his name he said

and he got this thread!

[HughBeaumont]

43. Yeah . . . Fairview Park your ass in the cemetery, Matt.

Wash the blood off your hands while you're at it.