Now comes this bullshit that republicans will somehow take credit for a withdrawal from Iraq

[bigtree]

First, republicans have yet to vote for, or support, any legislation which calls for an exit date.

Second, our Democratic majority been consistently united in their opposition to the occupation in voting for and continuing to support legislation containing a date certain for withdrawal.

While these republicans who've come out against the occupation in the past few days certainly deserve credit and support in their defection from their party's support of Bush's Iraq fiasco -- and they certainly deserve attention coming out so early in advance of the Pentagon's September dodge date -- they will be challenged to actually demonstrate their stated resolve to end the occupation with their votes. That'll truly be the day, if and when, the republicans get out in front and force their president to end the occupation.

The best I think we can hope for is the assembling of just enough of a veto-busting margin of the GOP'ers to press timetable legislation on Bush. There will still be more Democrats on board in such an effort than republicans, as there has been all along. Bush and his republican enablers own the occupation and are solely responsible for holding our troops there over the objections of the majority of Democrats, and in the face of the ever-increasing objections of the American people.

If and when that vote occurs, Democrats will be responsible for making it happen. The republicans had four years to end it, yet chose to stand by and do nothing but cheer Bush on as thousands of Americans perished. I think the American people know who is responsible for taking our troops to Iraq and keeping them there over their objections. I know I do.


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bigtree

[bryant69]

1. I don't know - individual republicans might get some bump

I mean if we are able to force a withdrawal it seems like some Republicans are going to have to vote with us; and those Republicans are going to try to make hay out of it. As for the Republican party/movement as a whole, I'd say you are right on, but we have to make sure to underline this going forward, because as you note they will clearly try to confused the issue.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Virginia Dare]

2. I felt like vomiting last night over the MSM coverage...

the Republicans have this huge epiphany that Iraq is a fucked up and unsustainable mess and we need to get out now. BIG NEWS.

Guess what, the Democrats have been saying this for months, if not years, now. They were painted as defeatists and anti-american.

:argh:

[Lerkfish]

3. This is precisely what is wrong with triangulation and capitulation of the beltway Dems

The republicans ARE paying attention to the polls and know that 67% of americans wants us out of Iraq.

The Dems are trying very hard not to be called unpatriotic and appearing to be "soft" on terrorism.

both sides are more concerned about their own political careers. The difference is that the people are asking for a CHANGE, and the republicans will give lip service about change, but do nothing, and the Dems will be too careful talking about change, and do nothing.

Until we get REAL progressive candidates and throw off the shackles of the DLC, we are doomed to continual marginalization.

[bigtree]

4. There's only one party in power who is presently on record opposing the occupation (repeatedly)

DLC and all

[Lerkfish]

5. point taken, but what have they actually done about it?

if the republicans succeed in APPEARING to have done something about it, they win in 2008. Its that simple

[bigtree]

6. If a minority of their party give in and sign on to a Democratic bill?

After supporting and cheering on a bloody occupation for four years? Look at what the candidates are saying right now. There's nothing coming from the republicans which isn't pure complicity with Bush or a complete flip-flop of an earlier complicity. I can make the case against them that they're merely cleaning up their own mess, and I'm sure many others can as well.

[Lerkfish]

8. I think you're drifting from my original point

about how this is why triangulation and capitulation are failed strategies.

[bigtree]

9. I don't think that's relevant

this is simply about an administration and its republican enablers who have been unified in favor of the occupation against our party which has been unified against the occupation. All of the different strategies that folks adopted or supported in that are irrelevant to those equations. It make no sense at all to go back and map out who supported what strategy if the relevant question is still on the adoption of an exit date, which our party supports overwhelmingly, DLC and all.

[Lerkfish]

10. my own point is irrelevant to my own point?

thanks for your input.

:shrug:

[bigtree]

13. to the point of my post, Lerkfish

irrelevant to the issue of support for timetables, which is the only expression from Congress which actually matters in moving Bush, outside of some change in the original authorization.

[Lerkfish]

15. then we strongly disagree

which is not unusual or unexpected.

[gasperc]

7. the surge was a success, we can pull out

we knew that was coming, although it's starting to sound like, we need more time for the surge to work. Either way, they want to be able to maintain a large military footprint with some political support. How they achieve that is anybody's guess. The military has a choice to make, extend deployment to 18 months, which they don't want to do or accept a draft, which they don't want to do. So, there's that. It'll be something between, the surge has done it's job and we can pull out or the coming drawdown was planned from the beginning but really we will only get down to pre Nov 2006 levels, when will we get to pre March 2003 levels?

[paparush]

11. Dude, that writing is SO on the wall....

They are shaping up the '08 elections, man.

With America's 29 second attention span, they'll have this puppy sewn up before all of the Thompson/Guliani Inaugural invitations are printed.

[marmar]

12. As usual, the MSM parrots RW memes....

Thom Hartmann has been screaming for weeks that this would happen.

[Cosmocat]

14. A couple thoughts ...

1) I COMPLETLEY agree with your language of "occupation" ... I have refered to it, accurately, as such for a couple years now ... I also have used the language of how the Rs in congress have been completely SPINELESS over the last six years to this president (a president and VP who needed congressional oversight more than any others in our history), in particular regarding Iraq ...

2) You are right to be cautious in assuming that just because these jerkoffs are now finally speaking out, does not mean that they will do what is right with their votes in September ...

3) IMO, the difficult part of this is the senate getting that veto proof margin ... I think you WILL see a good number of house Rs jump ship, with the 08 elections staring them in they eyes, but frankly, all that does is make for better perception of the measure ... The Ds can get it done in the house with or without the Rs ... The senate, however, needs 18 Rs, (Lieberman will NOT break ranks with Bushco yet) to get that veto proof margin ... I could see 7 or 8 Rs breaking ranks but 18 ...

I don't know ...

4) The MSM will carry the R's water, so like it or not, THEY will get whatever credit they stake out, the Ds WILL be painted negatively in some way, at the time ...

5) History WILL be re-written ... It will, just as Ronald Reagen is now known as one of the greatest presidents of all time, the conservatives WILL lie low on this, wait it out a while, find a way to blame the mess on liberals, democrats, the Iraqis, the UN ... Make no mistake, again, with the MSM carrying water, 10, heck, even 5 years from now, this will NOT be the republican party's responsbility ...

Just as it is Clinton's fault 9-11 happened, as bizarre as it is to blame him for not doing enough after the first WTC bombing, despite the actual bombers being caught, brought to trial and brought to justice, despite that the great Ron Reagan cut and run after the Embassy/Barracks bombing during his term ... Despite them having actually created OBL ... Despite the fact that that piece of garbage still draws air to this day, and somehow this president is keeping us safe and "fighting them there terrorists" ...

In this same way, what responsibility the Rs own will not be held to them, and some responsibility that the Ds do not have, WILL be held to them ...