Regarding Elizabeth Edwards, John Edwards, and Ann Coulter

[Tansy_Gold]

I don't often start threads, but I'm so angry that I didn't want to just respond to someone else's post.

I made a point of not watching Hardball yesterday. I could have watched it, but I chose not to, because I choose not to give my attention to Ann Coulter or anyone else of her ilk.

My disappointment and disgust have been enormous upon finding that the evening's MSNBC shows -- especially Hardball and Scarborough Country with Dan Abrams -- appear to be little more than a rerun of the Coulter event. I've been further disgusted by the emphasis, particularly from Chris Matthews and Dan Abrams, on the question of "who won" the impromptu debate between Coulter and Elizabeth Edwards.

As much as I like, admire, and respect John Edwards as an individual, I found myself wincing far too often while I watched him try to answer Matthews' questions. I agree with Edwards: the national dialogue on the issues that affect all Americans does not need the hate-filled, egotistical, sociopathic distraction of an Ann Coulter. We don't, as a nation and/or as a species, need her flip, cruel, self-absorbed hatred. We just don't need it.

But even as I winced at Edwards' responses, I grew angry at the disingenous Matthews: neither the confrontation with Elizabeth Edwards nor the ad nauseam day-after analysis would have been necessary if Matthews hadn't hosted the Coulter spectacle. For Matthews to sit there, oh so pious, and ask whether Coulter or Elizabeth Edwards had "won" was, in my humble opinion, the height of hypocrisy.

One of the guests on one of the shows -- I don't remember who it was -- said that Elizabeth Edwards put herself in a virtually impossible situation, because even if she wanted to call Coulter "a witch" -- I dislike using the term as a pejorative, but that's what was used on the show -- Elizabeth Edwards is constrained from being so free spoken. Coulter, on the other hand, is not. And indeed, Coulter's whole oeuvre is built on a persona who says not only whatever she wants, but things that are deliberately and outrageously provocative. They may be out and out lies, they may be offensive and hurtful, but she has the right to say them and she exercises that right in a way that makes any kind of confrontation a lose-lose situation.

Yes, her kind of hate-speech needs to be reined in, but it's not the Elizabeth Edwardses or the John Edwardses of the campaign who are going to shut her up. If Chris Matthews truly opposes the vitriol of Ann Coulter, all he has to do is refuse to have her on his show. All he has to do is refuse to go on a stage with her. And when all the like-minded folks, from Jon Stewart to Stephen Colbert to David Letterman to Tim Russert to Keith Olbermann, when she is snubbed by everyone but Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, and Rush Limbaugh, her vitriol will vanish.

She doesn't want to preach to the choir; she wants to enrage the opposition. Like a vampire, she feeds on our anger and our helplessness in stopping her.

The debate then moved on to whether it is "right" for the Edwards campaign to use the Coulter confrontation to raise funds. EXCUSE ME??? What is John Edwards supposed to do, just shut up and enjoy it, like the old admonition to rape victims? Next thing you know, someone will be accusing the Edwardses of a conspiracy to be victimized by Coulter so they can capitalize on their victimization! Give me a fucking break!

Ann Coulter is a mean, hateful, ugly excuse for a human being. Ignoring her will not make her go away, but it will deprive her of the attention she craves like an addict craves heroin.

I have no criticism of John or Elizabeth Edwards on this issue. They were victimized by Coulter and had a right to respond to her viciousness. I'm just so disgusted that the confrontation had to be in a forum where Coulter had all the advantage, both before and after the fact. Shame on Ann Coulter, but more shame on Chris Matthews and Dan Abrams as well.

Tansy Gold

[durrrty libby]

1. I understand your outrage with all the shenanigans

It was a rating ploy by Matthews, and book selling tour by Coulter

They both got what they wanted

The losers were Elizabeth and John Edwards.

[oregonjen]

2. I completely disagree

They are getting a spine and standing up to hate mongering. Would you rather they ignore it and continue to get "swiftboated" as the primary season goes on?

[durrrty libby]

7. Swiftboated by Coulter? She's nothing. You will see. This was

a fiasco.

[oregonjen]

9. No, "swiftboating" in general, not by Coulter

If they don't stand up to thugs like Coulter, then they will remain spineless. Standing up to the hate is exactly what we've been asking for, for how long? The Dems strategy of not commenting on this kind of ugliness has gotten them nothing. It's time to fight back and that is all I'm saying.

[Tansy_Gold]

10. I agree with you -- it's time someone stood up to the hate

What enfuriates me is that those who DO stand up get no credit for it, at least not by "the media." Matthews made me sick to my stomach, that little weasel. He was like the kid who murders his parents and then asks for mercy because he's an orphan.

I heartily salute John and Elizabeth Edwards, and I hope one of these days they will get the "equivalent" forum that's been given to the likes of Coulter over and over and over.


Tansy Gold

[oregonjen]

12. The media frenzy over this is amazing

It's like, Oh my God! A Dem actually stood up to hate and this is what she said. They were all surprised and analyzing this stuff over and over. That goes to show how little Dems defend themselves. If Dems stood up to all the crap, then this hate mongering would start to get little coverage and perhaps real issues may be discussed. Perhaps a little naive hope there.

Donny Deutsch (sp) was on with Matthews pretty much dismissing Elizabeth saying it was a mistake. He wants us to shut up and go away. Hopefully we will continue to fight.

I'm in a frenzy as well. We've been thrown a bone and I'm salivating for more.

[saracat]

13. That has been my point exactly.And now some on DU are saying

Elizabeth demeaned herself by standing up! Same peoople who whine about noone standing up!

[Blackhatjack]

3. You could not be more right about Tweety and Abrams giving her the platform...

Tweety never asked her about her own transgressions like lying on her voter registration signed under penalty of perjury.

And Tweety gave her a fawning pass as she spewed her hate speech.

It was about ratings and pushing the corporate owners agenda.

[iamjoy]

4. John & Elizabeth Were Not Vicitmized

Ann Coulter's hate talk did not make victims out of John and Elizabeth Edwards.

It made victims out of good American citizens who want an honest debate on the issues, not personal attacks and hate mongering.

Everytime John Edwards gets attacked for something stupid, something personal it is a lost opportunity to challenge him on something he SHOULD be questioned about. He has to defend himself from a stupid personal attack rather than articulating his awesome vision for our country.

The same goes for all the candidates.

[K8-EEE]

20. YEP! Fuck "What It Looks Like, " "What They Will Say, " ETC...

"They" meaning anybody stupid/evil enough to admire AC, will say stupid evil stuff anyhow. EE was an inspiration -- she never lost her cool and outclassed that viper a million times over.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. I agree, although I don't see Matthews benefiting from this, in the long run.

Coulter did herself no favors. She can only appear on television infrequently, at this point, because she's so toxic that even her few fans can only take her in small doses.

He looked like shit on The Today Show and was unable to focus or to form cogent, coherent answers to Meredith Vierra's softer than air questions.

This was an orchestration demanded by those who have relied on Coulter to fire up the sheeple base.

I wonder who persuaded this obviously ill woman to go out and work that Coulter magic just one more time. MKJ

[rwheeler31]

6. I agree,

just heard she will be on Joe Scarface in the morning. They will milk this as long as they can. Support Elizabeth any way you can.

[RufusEarl]

8. To me it was Matthews trying to make news, not report news.

I saw a re-run this afternoon, and had a similar opinion of Matthews. Just don't care for the guy, disingenuous lackey!

[Blue_In_AK]

11. It seems we can't win when fighting the haters...

Trying to do the dignified thing and ignore them, as John Kerry did with the Swiftboaters, caused him to be vilified for not fighting back soon enough. When the Edwardses take the opposite approach and respond to the invective, they're called out for not ignoring it. What's a candidate to do?

I agree, the media is very much to blame for this kind of ugliness.

[Tansy_Gold]

14. Exactly. Damned if we do, damned if we don't

I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of the spinelessness, and even sicker and more tired of the way any Democrat/Liberal/Progressive is attacked for showing some spine and fighting back.

Kerry's spinelessness -- under the guise of "dignity" -- in not defending himself against the swiftboaters cost him the presidency and we're all paying for it.

Tansy Gold, who doesn't like spineless wimps

[SeattleGirl]

15. I'm with you, Tansy. I applaud Elizabeth and John for speaking

out about this crap, and I especially applaud Elizabeth for calling Spitball when Coulter was on. Of course, Coulter did her usual thing, spitting and throwing blood, but Elizabeth didn't back down. And it showed what a class act she is, particularly compared with Coulter (however, I do acknowledge that a rabid dog is more of a class act than Coulter).

And I am also disgusted with Matthews, for giving Coulter an entire hour in which to spew her hate and venom and fucking lies.

[silverojo]

16. Dems with a spine--thought you'd never see it, huh?

Edwards looks better as a candidate every day. Pleasant enough, but don't @#$% with him. That's the way you've gotta be, to impress the public and give an impression of reasonableness and strength.

[Tansy_Gold]

17. Please refrain from insulting Tasmanian devils like that

;-)

Only kidding, of course.


Tansy Gold, owner of the wussiest, wimpiest American Staffordshire Terrier (a.k.a. pit bull) on the planet

[SeattleGirl]

21. I think he is using the anger he had at Kerry's caving in '04 to fuel

his campaign, AND to fight against the Coulters and O'Leillys and Limpballs of the world.

And Elizabeth is fighting not only for John's candidacy, but also for her family. Coulter ignores (no surprise) one of the cardinal rules of getting along in a society -- you do not diss another person's child (especially if they've done nothing wrong), and you do not use them as a way to slander and diss their parents.

Hell, even the Mafia considers family members off limits. Perhaps Ann could take a lesson from them. :grr:

[cynatnite]

18. K&R n/t

[ninkasi]

19. Elizabeth Edwards is fighting cancer.

She has lost a child. I believe that after facing two such devastating blows, she feels that she must speak the truth while she can.

Ann Coulter is a venomous, pathetic attention-seeking whore. She makes outrageous statements, like her statements suggesting that she wishes that John Edwards had been killed by terrorists. Why would she wish such a thing?

A normal, rational person does not wish this on another person. She is clearly mentally ill, and the MSM is preying upon her quite obvious mental illness. The time she is able to articulate her hateful, spiteful, message, is given to her by the MSM. This, to me, is an outrage.

Why should anybody let somebody who is as mentally unbalanced as Coulter have any air-time at all? That she should be written about, or aired, as often as she is, is an affront to any decent civilization. Stop airing her, stop printing her ever increasing, hate-filled speeches. If the media can't do that, then they need to give equal time to sane, rational, and NORMAL people, because Coulter is clearly in none of those categories.

I am so very, very tired of these hate-filled, hateful opinion writers who wish nothing more than to see our country become a fascist country, where they would, as they believe, occupy positions of power. Little do they realize that once our country has been corrupted, and transformed, they will also be pushed aside.

God, or Goddess, or universal power help us, because our country is being destroyed by the ones who said they would protect us.

[Major Hogwash]

22. They should ignore Ann Coulter altogether.

She's not important, she's not "building" anything in this country.
Instead, all she does is tear down people she doesn't like.
She goes after people that she perceives to be a threat to the neoconservatives.
She doesn't discuss the issues, she just makes wild, ridiculous claims against liberals.
She is not important, she is just another member of the Republican "echo chamber."
That's why she is a frequent guest on Hannity's program on the Faux Noise channel.
That's why Chris Matthews likes her, he also thinks the neoconservatives have a better plan for this country than the liberals do.
That's why Chris Matthews has her on his program all the time.

Chris is just as low as Geraldo Rivera.
He's not a journalist, he's just another biased commentator.
Geraldo Rivera used to have Ann Coulter on his program all the time, too.

It may take some liberals, like John Edwards, another 6 months to figure out that Chris will say or do anything to bash them, but not me.
I saw through that phony asshole 3 years ago.
After he had the SwiftBoat vets on his program for 3 entire weeks during August in 2004.

[KharmaTrain]

23. This Is Textbook "Manufactured News"

Reading Tweety's parsed explanations of things yesterday...it wasn't hard to see this was exactly the reaction MSNBC had been hoping for and got it.

Tweety if full of bullshit if he said that he knew she released her paperback earlier that day and her apperance had nothing to do with that event. Then he goes on to ask her about Hillary Clinton's "chubby legs", which was only included in the paperback version. Tweety was a literary agent's dream...he not only gave her that one hour of free airtime, he pushed the book and then let her play it up with her usual attenion whore routine. Sadly, many here, including the Edwards, bit into it too far and too hard.

My concern yesterday was that the network would hone in on the Edwards fundraising over anything Coultergeist would say...and sure enough I was right. Not a mention of the millions Coultergeist makes, how much her "hairdos" cost...we don't have to worry about a wardrobe expense...she always wears than same lame black cocktail dress. I'd like to see how much money Coultergeist and her publisher made in the past couple days...actual dollars...let's put that up against anything the Edwards ask for.

99.9% of my anger on this issue is with the corporate media and NBC in specific who are exploiting partisan divides for ratings. They knew they would get a good 24 hours of exclusive crap out of this...first creating the shitstorm and then "commenting" on it all the next day. And each time, they always had a regime sock puppet nearby to put some spin on it. Goons like Ron Christie and Bow Tie Boy all but saying Mrs. Edwards had nerve to call in and confront someone who attacked not only her husband but her dead child. Again, I'm amazed how well Elizabeth held her cool during that call.

Sadly, be prepared for more of this shit to come. The ratings are too good...the money to produce this story is so cheap. And look at all the attention this story's gotten here...that's all Tweety and his ilk care...they are attention whores, too.

[lapislzi]

24. Best. Coulter. Thread. Ever.

I usually hide coulter threads, but I took a chance and read yours. I'm glad I did. Your analysis is spot-on and further illuminates the moral bankruptcy of the corporate media--a pack of like vampires feeding on outrage and manufactured controversy.

Thanks, Tansy Gold. Great post.

:yourock: