Maybe Elizabeth Edwards shouldn't have confronted Coulter...

[cynatnite]

Okay, I'm probably asking for trouble, but here it goes...

Coulter thrives on the attention from her shocking vile statements that she spews. That's how she sells her books. The more she does it, the better for her. She gets more publicity and more money out of it. She's been all over the news the last couple of days doing what she does best...spewing vile crap. And like the suckers some of the American people are...they tune into it...they buy her books and so on.

Corporate media continues to enable her as they have done in the past despite the things she's said. For the last few days I've not heard one single person remind the public that she's the one who said the 9/11 widows revel in their husbands' deaths.

I know the crap she spews pisses us off and it's human nature to want to go after Coulter over it.

Basically, what I'm saying here is that I disagreed with Elizabeth confronting Coulter. While I know it wasn't her intention, the confrontation has benefited Coulter. Ann Coulter is beneath the Edwards and shouldn't be commented on at all except through their campaign manager. Something along the lines of 'Ann Coulter continues to hurl personal insults at people and has no ability to discuss real issues important to Americans'. Leave it at that and move on.

The less attention the Dems give Coulter...the better.

Does anyone have a flame retardant suit I can borrow? :)

edited to add: During that show Ann Coulter sat in that chair wearing her shades, throwing her long blonde hair over her shoulder and snapping off sarcastic comments. She had no substance whatsoever. Elizabeth calls in and says what we all want to say only Coulter laughs it off just like she does anytime she is confronted with real issues. She is being fed and it needs to stop, IMO.

[Lex]

1. Silence is often interpreted as agreement or consent.

nt

[BlooInBloo]

2. Yah - ignoring evil... That ALWAYS works.

[frogcycle]

3. forget politics

Elizabeth Edwards had a right as a human being to confront the bitch.

And given her situation, the emotional turmoil she must be going through, dealing with something she cannot control which will profoundly affect - and end - her life, I say she can speak out on any and all topics she wants, and bully for her.

I gotta go make another donation to Edwards.

[cynatnite]

I wasn't saying she couldn't...

I think it might have been a mistake.

Ann Coulter is a shock commentator. The more outrageous...the better. She gets attention. She got more when Elizabeth confronted her. I don't think it lowered Elizabeth, but I do think it elevated Coulter.

I'm not slamming Elizabeth. I admire the hell out of her because she's a strong smart woman.

[frogcycle]

16. and I am saying screw whether it was a "mistake"

might it be not helpful to the campaign? could be.

Sometimes you just have to go with whats right, and it was right for her to do this if she felt the need. the consequences are whatever they are, and thats that.

[Shakespeare]

4. Apparently, it's time for the obligatory hand-wringing.

No, she shouldn't have ignored it. We've ignored it WAAAAYYYY too long already.

[durrrty libby]

5. I agree with you and it will hurt Edwards in the end

Chris Matthews and Coulter used them. Plain and simple

Matthews for ratings and Coulter for book sales

Jesus, what is wrong with people that they don't see this?

Mrs Edwards was no match for Coultergeist

[Warren DeMontague]

9. "no match?" Coulter just sat there behind her sunglasses and sulked.

The meth has eaten her brain. She tried to sputter some bile-filled retort, and couldn't do it. Elizabeth Edwards won that round.

[cynatnite]

12. That's not what I saw...

I saw Coulter laying back, throwing her long blonde hair over her shoulder, with her shades playing the 'they want to shut me up' game. She laughs it off and snaps off sarcastic comments. She looked like she was enjoying the hell out of the show and I would bet she was seeing dollar signs the entire time.

[SeattleGirl]

19. And the reason she does that is because she cannot make a logical

argument, form a cogent thought, or stand her ground without making personal attacks against people.

Hmmmm, that's sounds like a ....... FREEPER!

[cynatnite]

24. Of course...we all know that...

so why feed her? That's her M.O. and we all know this. It's pointless and useless to have even the most basic of dialogue with her because of the vile she spews. It's how she makes her living. I don't want to add to it by paying her so much attention.

I know corporate media has pushed her type onto the mainstream, but I hate it when people I respect give her, O'Lielly and others any kind of attention because it legitimizes them to a degree. That's how I see it.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

6. The Real Crime was Committed by MSNBC who Profited Off Her Vomit

The market place of ideas is getting cheap as news is determined by what can make ratings and profits.

[Warren DeMontague]

I'm not gonna flame you. I just disagree. I think EE did exactly what needed to be done.

You know, at some point we need Joe Welches to stand up to these modern-day McCarthys and say "Have you no decency sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"

[cynatnite]

18. And Coulter would just laugh and throw her blonde hair over her shoulder...

just like she always does.

Coulter has no substance at all. She's about bumper sticker insults and she makes money off them. Why should we feed that by giving her attention?

[Warren DeMontague]

31. I don't watch ANY of it. At all.

I caught the clip on Youtube, that's the first time I've seen tweety in years. Make of that what you will.

But I also think that when no one ever calls these people on their shit, there's a segment of the population that thinks that because Democrats don't "fight back", it means we're "wimps".

This was why Kerry screwed the pooch in not addressing those Swift Boat shitheads.

[cynatnite]

33. The swift boat jerks was an organized effort financed by the repukes...

that he should have fought much sooner than what he did. I don't view them or Coulter as the same. I see her as a one person show who gets attention and money to be as shocking as possible. Much easier to ignore, IMO.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. I don't think this ought to be a continuous effort.

But I'm glad EE stood up and said what she did. Particularly given it was her family that was personally insulted and slimed, repeatedly.

[rwheeler31]

7. So we should just shut up and go away.

Good plan for Iraq, for America not so much.

[cynatnite]

14. I never said that...

I think this helped Coulter much more than it helped the Edwards. Coulter is a troll and she's being fed by responding to her vile.

[MUAD_DIB]

8. I'm happy that Elizabeth stood up for her man.

Some say that you should ignore a bully, but I would rather draw blood than let somebody molest my name on TV.

Appeasement never works. It only emboldens your enemy.

It's time that little Annie gets drop kicked, verbally, every time she does this.

[madfloridian]

10. The confrontation has not benefitted Coulter at all.

She looked crazed. It was a good thing.

Everytime a Democrat speaks out...people panic and go into scaredy cat mode.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

11. I Think the Wrong Edwards is Running for President

I Think the Wrong Edwards is Running for President

[johnnie]

13. Coulter is a joke

Sure she sells books and whatever, but most people think she is a joke. The only reason I would agree that Mrs. Edwards shouldn't have called her is because Coulter isn't taken seriously by the majority of people and it is a waste to take the time to confront her.

The truth is, the "conservative front" has been dying out for the last few years.

[SeattleGirl]

15. I'm not going to flame you, but I will tell you that I disagree with you.

Yeah, Coulter likes having people call her on her shit, because then she gets to spew even more. However, the kind of confrontation Coulter loves is when people really get in her face. Elizabeth didn't do that. She was straight forward, definitely, but she was classy all the way in talking to Coulter. And I know Elizabeth knew exactly how Coulter would react, but she went ahead with the call, because she has the right to call someone out for the kind of crap that Coulter has said about her and John.

As someone pointed out in another thread, to NOT say something could bring as much, or more, criticism of Elizabeth and John than SAYING something. When Kerry was swiftboated and didn't fight back, he did himself absolutely no favors

Frankly, I think that people, overall, respect a person who stands up against those who attack them.

As to Coulter getting more attention, yes, she will always appeal to the same kind of small-minded, mean-spirited, hate-filled people she always has. But the more she talks, the more the rest of the country will see her for who and what she is. She's already had a number of papers drop her column; let her keep flapping her gums. She might hate-speech herself into oblivion.

[ninkasi]

40. I agree with you, SeattleGirl!

I can't tell you how many times a Democratic politician has been put down here for not standing up to right-wing attacks. Now we have a woman with cancer, standing up for the child she lost, and the venom directed toward her, and some seem to think she should not speak up.

I'm sorry, but I truly believe that she was justified in saying what she did. I'm tired of letting cruel, hateful people like Coulter frame our debates, and attack our candidates with such savage, completely baseless rhetoric.

We lamented for a long time the tepid response John Kerry gave to the Swiftboat attacks. Now, are we trying to get the voice of one of our strongest supporters silenced? No. That's not right, and in my own humble opinion, Elizabeth Edwards stood up proudly, and strongly, and voiced her own beliefs. She should be commended.

[SeattleGirl]

42. Amen to that! And what I think is one of the best things about what

Elizabeth did was that she did NOT lower herself to Coulter's level (and I really couldn't imagine EE doing that anyway). She spoke her peace, and I have so much admiration for her for doing that (and I had plenty of admiration for her anyway.)

[kskiska]

17. Maybe John Kerry shouldn't even have tried to confront the Swift Boaters

What's the alternative? Coulter would have gotten her publicity anyway.

[kevinbgoode]

20. I dunno...at the rate Coulter is self-imploding, she could end up

with the distinction that her last gasp of celebrity ranting was ruined by how each of her appearances increased contributions for Democrats and eroded what little support was left for Republicans.

I say...keep talking, Ann. Every time you open your mouth, they'll be a spike in money flowing to the Dems. . .

[Sonicmedusa]

21. Are you kidding?

I think both John and Elizabeth are playing "her" game brilliantly.

Essentially, they have been the very graciousness of southern manners.
Coulter was asked politely to stop. Of course she won't.

They way I see it, Coulter can make money from her hate all for her worthlessness. John and Elizabeth can make money off her hate too, for a far better cause.

John is RIGHT. It is wrong to not correct manners and those manners have stood uncorrected for far too long.

[Disturbed]

23. She is the Spokes Person for the RWing.

She speaks for them. She says things that they would love to say but won't dare do so. Have a number of prominent Repugs ever castigated her for the many vile remarks she has spewed? I think not. She is the their standard barer. She is also good for Dems because it gives Dems anger and spirit to bring more people into the Dem side of the equation. Look at the numerous posts on DU for proof. She has gotten rich from her bile spewing, articles, speeches and books that are replete with lies, distortions and RWing propaganda. She feeds off of both sides and laughs at both while she collects $Millions.

[cynatnite]

25. And she snaps off the 'free speech' argument to justify it...

The other problem is that she's been given a venue. She has someone willing to publish her and a corporate media willing to hand her a mic. Since this confrontation she's been all over the TV. A guy today on MSNBC said this is Coulter's schtick. She'll make a lot of money for her publisher and herself out of this.

Calling her on it hasn't done much good. She's still doing it even after what she said about the 9/11 widows. Giving her no attention seems to be the next step, IMO.

[journalist3072]

22. The only thing I agreed with Ann Coulter on

Was the issue of the Edwards campaign using Coulter's comments to raise money.

If Elizabeth Edwards was really so offended by Coulter's comments making fun of Wade's death, etc....I hardly think it's appropriate that they use this confrontation with Coulter to raise money for the Edwards campaign. I got one of those emails from the Edwards camp today, taling about Coulter and then aksing for money. It didn't sit well with me.

And I seem to remember Randi Rhodes or someone taking the Edwards camp to task after it was announced that Elizabeth's cancer had returned. Supposedly, people had sent them messages just expressing their thoughts and prayers for Elizabeth, and those people were sent fundraising messages by the Edwards camp. Tacky!

[cynatnite]

27. Bugged me, too.

I don't think they should be using Ann Coulter to make money. It feeds her.

[rwheeler31]

30. They need to raise money,

and every pol has to. What is wrong with free media, when you have the right position?

[RamboLiberal]

26. I disagree - Dems have sat back for too long and let

Coulter and the other vile hate pundits spew. It's past time to call them on it every time. Coulter's been selling her crap books for a long time and networks have been giving her air time. I'd love to see all the Dem candidates back one another up on this. After all Elizabeth did call her out for doing this to other candidates as well.

Silence only makes the Dems look weak!

[cynatnite]

29. Too bad we'll never have the dems coming out in droves...

and condemning her for it. I really thought some of the repukes would come down on Coulter for what she said about the 9/11 widows, but all I heard was one cricket.

If Coulter wasn't slowed down then...she sure won't be now. That's why I'm opposed to feeding her and some dems are doing it even though it's unintentional.

Oh, and corporate media, too. They feed her a lot.

[Joe Fields]

28. The only one buying her books is Richard Mellon Scaife.

[Fovea]

32. I think of it as the 'McCarthy moment'

Coulter's inability to respond to an actual human being
And her toxicity should be a red flag for those who have been enabling her to spew on the airwaves.
Compared to E. Edwards genuine article, she appears both banal, evil, and an astounding comment on the sort of creature becomes the darling of the Gay Old Pedophile party. Who will be the next neocon two minutes hate dispenser-- Paris Hilton? Jeff Gannon?

[MonteLukast]

44. My vote for most likely Coulter heir apparent:

http://www.immigrantsolidarity.org/Campaigns/HOT97.htm

She's a failed singer who's now a DJ for a NYC hip-hop station, and while I don't know her politics, she's been responsible for a lot of offense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Jones
Check out the part about Roger Toussaint. Yup, definitely the next Coulter. Right down to the poorly veiled death threats.

[Fovea]

46. But will she swear allegience to Dick?

And give the kiss of shame?
That is important to his Satanic Majesty.

From here they must fight like cornered rats, that is if the Dems will actually fight them.
The Pelosi middle of the party is making the rank and file lead in a constitutional crisis. They had better not whine when the party takes a giant step to the left without them afterwards.

[SeattleGirl]

45. No, not Paris. I'm no fan of hers by any stretch of the imagination,

but I could see Gannon spewing bile like Coulter.

However, Coulter is definitely in a classless by herself. :puke:

[bmbmd]

35. I agree.

Had some rank and file stand-up comedian, say Michael Richards, been making comments like that, EE would never have responded. Responding to Ann Coulter gives her legitamacy and makes the Edwards' look like babies who can't take a punch. Serious mistake in my book.

[KharmaTrain]

36. I Expressed A Similar Thought This Morning

I suspected the corporate media would hone in on the Edwards fundraising that Coultergeist was harping about...and I wasn't disappointd.

Shame on the corporate media hacks, like Tweety, who not only give that gasbag a podium to do her public profanity and freak show, but encourage it. Not one bit of remorse from Tweety about how he allowed his show to be hijacked by a liar and gadfly.

[hatrack]

37. Uh-huh, because ignoring liars and sociopaths and acting all noble has worked SO well.

No longer.

[ljm2002]

38. I totally disagree...

...you can make all the calculations you want, but we simply cannot keep taking it lying down. The more we "ignore" it, the more we are perceived as weak -- and the more the rabid right is empowered. Not to mention that the lies go unanswered.

We've had plenty of time to try out the "just ignore it and it will go away" strategy. It has failed spectacularly. It is time to try something new; in fact it is far past time to confront these assholes whenever they spout their venom and their lies, and I for one applaud Elizabeth and John Edwards for doing so in this case.

[ComerPerro]

39. ignoring her would be good to not spread hype, but what I would like to see is everyone suing her

all at the same time, all the people she lied about and slandered...

[upi402]

41. Ignoring Anne didn't work. You HAVE TO feed righties their own medicine.

And they really HATE the taste of their own medicine.

[jpgray]

43. I remember people making the same argument about the Swift Boaters in '04

While the situations aren't totally comparable, sometimes it's dangerous to allow a crazy person spewing crazy things against you to continue unanswered, especially if they have a national platform on a regular basis.

[Hidden Stillness]

47. "Fight Fire With Fire"

This is a very tricky issue, and I think we are learning how we have to act, in a world where the media is nothing like what used to exist at any other time before, where it is now totally cut off from the public and the surrounding society, and is now nothing but corporate propaganda and a corporate mouthpiece. I think we are still at a stage where we are trying the last few attempts at the old ways, and they no longer work, because the commercial media is so different now, only play-acting at being "fair" or "American" or "social" or anything else, but really only putting on a front to advance corporate/Republican global goals. We have known that not answering slanderous lying about a candidate doesn't work ever since Michael Dukakis, 1988, when the First prick bastard Bush slandered Dukakis's record, and the Dukakis campaign tried to maintain some dignity, and did not answer; it stuck. This is why so many were perplexed when the "D"LC ordered Kerry not to respond to the Swift Boat Liars of the Second prick bastard Bush, because as we know they are "good 'Democrats.' " It stuck. When you have a media that pretends to be the objective bringer of news, yet suddenly no longer acts as a "moral mainstream," and draws a line that they will not allow any attack or slander to go beyond, then you realize that nobody can be a decent human being anymore; they are steering it--they are arranging it so that the one who is willing to be the most vicious or threatening, will always win.

Sometimes you have to try things before you know whether they work or not--what happens if you ignore it, what happens if you try to reason with them, or try to be nice, etc.--so that, as these things successively fail, you are a little more sure about what to really do. The fact that the Republican "Party" (commercial-slush fund/corporate funnel of tax money) is dropping, losing support, and we are gaining all the time, gives hope and makes this whole thing a lot less stressful than it might otherwise be: they are no longer winning. Now all you need to do is make up for the damage, and figure how to get them out and get the media back to the people.

One problem people make, I think, is treating Coulter as if she were a "political" figure, and then "debating" with her. This is a futile task, as she is an asshole and a liar; and when the media now plays this game where they say, "She is not really a conservative," than you know you are not even dealing with honest people here. They know they are lying through their teeth. Since any sincere and straightforward approach is played off of, with "stacked-deck" "rebel" pretense, and the media does not criticize her, laughs, asks you for "a response," etc.--all this bullshit--you realize eventually that no approach would work. Everything is a comic book. Therefore I think that the only approach that stood any chance against this "atmosphere" would be to similarly throw away all attempt at truth, and just rip her. It has to be done the same way--as comedy--ripping, attacking, having fun, ridiculing her, etc.; the only approach that is "unanswerable," I think. It can't be done, though, by our candidates.

Therefore my approach would be to encourage people like Whoopi Goldberg, Roseanne Barr, Rosie O'Donnell, and especially, Kathy Griffin, to launch an almost "coordinated" campaign of embarrassing, vicious, hilarious, humiliating, ripping attack, that would so expose Coulter to the "not under control anymore" laughter of the general people, that her "reign of terror" would be as finished as Cheney-Bush's is becoming. It could not be a campaign based on hatred or anger, because she would win it, being demonic, and it could not be done by woman-hating male "comedians" (as most are), because believe it or not, it would make her "sympathetic," kind of. Coulter is not "popular"--Oprah Winfrey is popular--Coulter is propped up by the prick corporate Republican rich media. A fight would not do it: to really finish off a piece of vile shit like that, you have to take away all their seriousness, don't take them seriously anymore, but do not ignore them. Instead, make it so that nobody can even think of her anymore, and not start laughing at what an exposed, pissed-on asshole she is--defeated. The key is to not even refer to the issues at all anymore--just treat her as a joke. Answer her with her own medicine, exactly.

[Gabi Hayes]

48. Excellent reasoning. the only problem, and the key one, AFAIC, is this:

as you said, it's important to try and see what works. Unfortunately, and the reason I think we're pretty much doomed, is that NOTHING works. The reason for that is most wonderfully exemplified by M$M response to this brouhaha:

instead of taking Coulter to task, the Media are
'dismissing' her as a lunatic, somebody whom nobody takes seriously, while AT THE SAME time very cynically and disingenuously providing her a platform for such lunacy. Then, when the Edwardses appear to answer Coulter's vilenss, instead of giving them much chance to deal with the several instances of her vicious attacks, the MEDIA only wants to discuss their justified use of said attacks to raise money, SHOCK!, for his presidential campaign, as if there is something wrong with it.

My point is, no matter HOW the dems respond to any issue, they're almost always put on the defensive by the complicity M$M. When they DO start out on the attack, you can count on the media to make sure the public KNOWS that it's a political attack, a "stunt" produced by the dems. How often to they respond with that sort of reaction when the republicans do the same thing, which is their MO.

[Rosemary2205]

49. IMHO the only mistake was using it for fundraising.

IMHO that just looked tacky and IMHO ruined the benefit gained from confronting Coulter. -- but attacking Coulter was the right thing to do.

[Robbien]

50. People love people who stand up and fight

Just look at the increase in amount of donations to Edwards campaign.

Just look at how much we scorn this current batch of Democratic congresscritters.

[MzNov]

51. A brilliant move by Elizabeth Edwards. Whether they ask for money or not.

At least she's not spineless. And the audience and country collectively said "YOU GO GIRL"

Scum like Coulter need to be brought to the attention of the comatose public. And this helped.

ELIZABETH IS MY HERO.

:bounce: