Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Why I Can Not Commit Suicide

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 12:28 AM
Original message
Why I Can Not Commit Suicide
If you have ever thought about this, my heart is with you. A month ago, I, too, was contemplating this very thing myself. Of course, I told my doctors that, oh, no, I wasn't suicidal at all; wink, wink, nod, nod. I didn't want them to think that I could be seriously thinking about it, and that they might decide to lock me up someplace "for my own safety." If anything, I was smart enough to defy anyone who might have believed I was lying when I said I wasn't, as I was actively counting in my head how many pills it might take to actually do the deed, rather than have me end up as a catatonic or comatose patient instead. If I had anyone fooled, it was probably only myself, trying to rationalize reasons why I should, and why I shouldn't do it.

Four years ago, I lost my best friend to a disease known as pulmonary hypertension. This illness requires that you live with an oxygen mask for the rest of your life, are unable to do a whole lot other than sit and vegetate, and eventually suffer from congestive heart failure and die. She lived with this illness for seven long years, each year it got more and more difficult for her to do anything to help herself. The only joy she had was on Saturdays when she was able to take her scooter out, go shopping and go to church, taking the van for the handicapped to the mall. She met a friend for lunch, bought a few things, and eventually went home exhausted, but happy. She had depression--who with a chronic illness, and especially a terminal one, doesn't? But she had enough to look forward to each week to keep her life meaningful.

More recently, my SIL, who is 6 months younger than me, was diagnosed with colorectal cancer. She underwent both chemotherapy and radiation therapy, had most of her colon and rectum removed, ended up with a colostomy, and went from about 115 lbs down to 85. After that, she finally managed to regain the weight, but recent tests in the past month found that she was not cancer-free. The cancer had gone into her lymph nodes, and there was a chance it had gone beyond it. My SIL was always the good one. While I used to regard anything made from chocolate as a major food group, she ate correctly, walked every day and exercised. She pretty much took good care of herself, and yet, here she is, a chance that she might die before me.

Even more recent, an old acquaintance of mine, who I knew a lot better over 25 years ago, was diagnosed with cancer as well. Supposedly, she had leukemia, but I think there was more to it than that. Through a mutual acquaintance, I just learned that she was in ICU since Sunday, and an emergency surgery was performed to remove her colon and her bowels. Evidently, she made it through the first surgery, but they were going to have to do a second surgery to close her stomach, but with as much weakness as she has and a low blood cell count, they aren't sure she is going to make it. She is completely out of it, with no ability to know that anyone is visiting her or asking about her at all. She would be about 61 this year.

I've been thinking about this for most of the evening since I found out the latest. And while I am very sad about her, I think something clicked inside of me instead.

I've been feeling a lot of self-pity for myself because my own illnesses have led me to have tremendous fatigue, difficulty walking and depression. (Hence my thoughts of suicide a month ago) But the fact is, I'm not dying. There is no feeling of impending doom, just continued frustration at dealing with some shit, and trying to muddle through. I have no issue that will kill me right away, and while somewhere down the line that might eventually happen, now is not that time.

So why I was so unhappy with my life that I even entertained thoughts about killing myself? Perhaps the answer is that I thought I had lost control of who I was--who I am, and who I will be. Perhaps, as with so many of us at any given time, we find the world around us so filled with unending horror, hardship, misery and terror that we feel if we can't control our own destiny, we are irrevocably lost.

The truth though, is that we can control our destiny. We can make the decision to live, and not die. We can make the decision to fend off the demons of our own souls and defy them--for now. We have something going for us that many do not--we have our brains. We have intelligence. We have self-awareness.

We're all mortal. We know that, and even if we believe in the big guy "upstairs" we know that our time here is finite. and even if there is a great beyond after our earthly demise, we know that our existence here, in this body, this life, is gone forever. Even if we believe in reincarnation, we are still giving up the selves that we know in the present. In the old days, people used to live believing that their children and their posterity were their way of gaining a little immortality. Some wrote, some created and some made marvelous discoveries, believing that they would be immortalized with their work. Yeah, that happened too, and it is still one of the best ways to have a little bit of immortality. Children, too, might work for some, but with the world we're likely to leave for our own posterity, there is little guarantee that our great-great-grand children will ever be born or live to see it.

And so, we make decisions. Sometimes they're rotten ones, and sometimes, for some people, those decisions were the right ones. Let's face it: I firmly believe in deciding when I should let it all go. But I also believe now that I have greater control than I thought. I still have my brain. I still have my hands. I still have some abilities which make up for others that are flagging. And after knowing that I have a choice, I know that there is still a measure of control there that I have not lost. I've seen many people with whom I have shared a great deal and others with whom I have shared some memories dealing with situations which are far graver than my own. And while I live with depression every day, I also have not gotten to the point where I am in such despair that checking out is yet as great an option as I thought it could be.

If there is any doubt with any of you, I keep thinking now of something else: I want to stay alive at least until the morning of November 5, 2008, to see a Democrat's name as the winner of the general election. I want to live to see the major players of the current administration locked up in jail cells, filling for appeals for the next twenty years. I want to see an end to and justice attained for all the shit, corruption and collusion that has been our government for the past 6 years. If I can manage to live until these things have been gained, then it will have all been worth living for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. My love goes to you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Thanks--I appreciate it
But there are so many others who have bigger problems than me, that's for sure. I just need to discover my purpose in life--if there is one! ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. be well and get ready to celebrate in '08, Hyphenate...
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. That's a goal I will
look forward to. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. You have a lot to offer obviously. When you use the word "we" I feel
like you know you're a part of humanity. And humanity needs folks like you. Glad you made it to another day, it's not a given is it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Thanks
Yes, I feel like "we" need to look at things in the broadest manner possible. Of course, with everything else, there are those who oppose humanity's best interests in favor of their own short goals, and we already know that most of those who do have absolutely no love in them, not even for their children or their grandchildren. For those arrogant enough to think that money and other forms of tangible profit are what their posterity need to survive, I believe that they would sell those descendants short if it meant another iota of power for themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wish there was a Language Award here at DU, because I would nominate this.
I guess a Recommend will do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Thank you
for your kindness. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MonteLukast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. Peace and health be to you. (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Thanks
One, I hope to have soon, the other might take awhile. :) (Your guess as to which)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. I know the feeling
I know the feeling more than most. I've been through a few of those things myself. I think we all do to some extent, a few more than most though. Sometimes that little voice gets to us, "why did that happen" "how could that happen", "what did they do to deserve...", "why me", etc. Sometimes it has to I think. Sometimes we have to feel that way. It gives us a greater appreciation for what we do have, a greater appreciation for life. For me that fermented into an ardent desire to make the world a better place. No one will watch the news with me, I scream at the tv. I realized that there had to be some way to add something to this life for those after I've left it and this was it. Passion for the causes I believe in. We all have a voice, and after the things I've gone through, I realized that if I could make the world an easier place for even one person then my job would be done, the more the merrier.

(For the record, I'll celebrate the day this administration gets its comeuppance).

I think that the worst thing to ask for is to be normal. The masses are normal. They don't do anything. They aren't the doctors and scientists, the astronauts and football stars, the presidents and activists. They're nonchalance and laziness. They don't have the passion for life that one who knows it could be gone in an instant does, the fire for living that one who's got only a short time to give has, the drive to overcome everything, to be better than the best. The greatest changes in history are made by the individual not the group. The greatest people in history are the most screwed up.

Wow, I rambled much longer than I thought I did...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Nope, not rambling!
We all need to find the times when we can unburden our minds from the many things we're required to hold there. I found a long time ago (the hard way!) that keeping it inside is more dangerous than talking about it. One of my doctors and I talked about that--I told her my mother has the propensity to keep everything bottled up and doesn't have arguments because she's always afraid the neighbors could hear. I told my doctor I wouldn't worry about the neighbors, as they have their own problems and could care less about someone else's! She laughed and agreed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matsubara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm glad you've chosen to live.
I personally could never take my own life. I'm not confident enough about a hereafter, first of all, second of all, I love life. Right now, I have a great family and a decent home and job, which is more than a lot of people.

But no matter how bad it gets, you gotta find ways to feel joy. There are rich people who would probably weep to find themselves in my shoes, but they're just fine for me.

Lastly, I would never peg my life on some political contest. If the dems win, then maybe democracy will be kept barely afloat for a few more years. If another pug wins, chances are the US as we know it would eventually collapse in every imaiginable way, but the people would eventually band together to rebuild a better nation. At least that's how I look at it. This incarnation of America has been called a grand experiment. It's not supposed to be the empire to last 1000 years. So whoever takes office in Jan. 2009, I'm at peace with it, because in the end, the people will eventually take the country back from the tyrants, one way or another.


I hope you can rediscover joy in your life - do the things you love to do - sports, games, hobbies, art, whatever. We all lose beautiful people in our lives, which is why we need to keep cultivating new friendships, as hard as that can be.

I've made a whole wonderful new circle of friends since moving back to Japan - something I never had the chance to really do in SF as everyon in our age bracket seemed so damn busy with kids and work.

Well this post went all over the place, but best wishes to you in your journey!

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I agree too
It's best not to take politics too seriously. In fact it's best not to take too much seriously. Except love. That's why it hurts most when lost. Nov. 08 will not be the end of the world. Trust me on this, even if things don't go quite as well as we hope, it will get better eventually.

The best thing to do is deal with our demons straight out. Keeping them inside will not work. I know this for a fact. A real cold fact. You have to deal with who you are and what life's given you before you'll ever be totally happy. Of course, no one can do this completely. When it gets late and the action of the day cools I still think about my demons, they still bother me. But when the sun comes up tomorrow, I know that I'll be able to push on again. Why? I don't know really. But if I could give advice, talk to yourself in the mirror or keep a journal or something. You have to admit to yourself that you don't like something and tell yourself that you're not going to let it get you down. Once you've come to terms with your demons life will work out just fine. It's a work in progress and the road is bumpy and unclear but there is an end and there is a light at the end.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-29-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. Feeling overwhelmed
is natural, expecially nowadays. There is an information overload, and everyone gets bombarded from all sides without pause. I can imagine that the number of them has increased exponentiality over the centuries, with a far greater percentage of the overall population.

I find that some people also seem to grow so fascinated by something that they will often fixate on it and become obsessed. A friend kept watching the WTC disaster over and over again, while I saw it fully once, and then avoided it thereafter. I believe such a sense of captivation hearkens back to the atrocities of history, where people were executed in the city squre for everyone, burned alive, or other horrific death method, all in front of the crowds who gathered there. It was as much a spectacle as a circus would be, or any one of a series of events meant to degrade or execute people who were out of favor with their current government.

People are natural voyeurs. It will always be true, regardless of how many of us would like to think we've evolved beyond that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. Finding joy isn't necessarily
going to happen overnight--and it shouldn't. We must all go one second, one minute, one hour ahead at the same rate, and it's finding something to be curious about, something in which to engage our minds that in the end proffers happiness. Joy is the zenith and is not to be expected all the time, just as grief and despondency are the polar opposites and should not be expected to last forever, either.

As it has been said many times by philosophers who found truth in simple things, it is the journey, and not the destination, which defines our lives.

Finding new friends is always a source of great satisfaction, and I am happy for you in many new discoveries with them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matsubara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Of course. Anyone expecting non-stop happiness and fun in life is in for a bitter disappointment
but keeping your eyes open for the little things that bring us joy, being grateful for what we do have certainly helps me.

And I try not to blow daily disappointments out of proportion.

Thanks about the "new friends" thing. As a lifelong introvert, it's a challenge for me. In high school, I gave up in the face of the whole adolescent social darwinist scene, and decided I didn't need friends. I just had a few acquaintances, and I would think to myself that I liked animals more than people.

But of course that's extremely immature. Animals seem great because they love unconditionally and they don't talk back.

But eventually I realized that good friends sometimes tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear, and being challenged by the people around us helps us grow.

I'm 38 years old and I'm still shy and awkward around new people, but just being honest about the fact that I am shy seems to help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. And being able to find people
online is also a help--at least for some people I know. It erases the wall between all people, introverted or extroverted. It's definitely a bonus for those who want to communicate but aren't comfortable doing it face to face.

As for the animals, my cats are my best friends--bar none. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
8. Peace to you
:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Thank you
And to you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. Great post and I'm very sorry for what you have been through
Hang in there because November, 2008 is going to be SWEET! :yourock:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. Getting there needs to be half the fun
Alas, there do not seem to be enough moments for that. Though knowing there are many others who can see those corrupted squirm and be uncomfortable, I do find smiles on occasion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
10. Hold fast...
Don't know how to put this, but struggling with the same thing myself.

Everyone deals with their own pain. If you feel you are at your limit, then you probably are...
a full glass is a full glass, no matter what the size...does that make any sense?
It's easy to tell yourself that 'Sure, but other people have it lots worse".
Have you considered that somebody may be looking at YOU and thinking "Man, I don't know how hyphenate manages...so many losses, so much grief and sorrow...but still coping. What courage and tenacity."
Cos I am, at least...:patriot:

Your friend in the ICU might be more receptive than you think. She may not be responsive, but your visiting her, talking to her, maybe playing music or something will mean a LOT to her. Hearing is the last thing to go.

Depression is sometimes like fighting fog. It's not just sitting in the corner and crying and wishing you were dead. Sometimes it's staring at the wall and not really having the energy- physical, emotional, or spiritual to do anything. All bland, blah...flat, sad and grey.
As if about 75% of your connections are severed- you're technically alive and responsive and apparently responding appropriately when people talk to you, but it's all on the surface.

Been there (am there right now), done that, bought enough T-shirts to start my own outlet, and all I can tell you is it will pass eventually.

Just hold fast and know that even though it may feel like it, you are NOT alone. :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Never alone
NEVER ALONE!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Thanks--I appreciate it
Your description of depression is a good one. It can sometimes permeate your whole existence and serve to obsfuscate your perception of the life you have and want to retain.

I always used to think some years ago that those who chose suicide were the brave ones, taking on an insurmountable task. I wasn't sure I had the "courage" to do it. Nowadays, for me anyhow, I think staying alive despite everything is the bolder of the two.

As I've said elsewhere in another thread, the internet helps. It keeps me from being isolated, and that's all good. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
13. Living is the best revenge nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. Hang on hyphenate. As long as we can say, this is the worst, it is not the worst.
I know I mangled that quote from King Lear but I hope the sentiment comes through.

Talk to a doctor or your therapist - anti-depression medication is an option and has helped millions of people.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. .
Time doesn't heal all wounds on its own but it will add new hights to counter your most abysmal lows.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. Thanks as well
I've been lucky to have a doctor who actually listens to me and notes my concerns. I've been on an anti-depressant for quite some time, and it has helped, though it hasn't been a miracle cure. There are days better than others, but I am simply grateful that the despair I had back then is now lessened. Back then, my choice would have been just as clearcut, though as different as my outlook is now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Bravo on facing your demons
And remember that the best cure for depression is to remember to dream.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bullwinkle925 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. Beautifully written.
At times it is difficult to see beyond ourselves. I'm happy that you were able to have that moment of epiphany and have chosen to keep going down that road - one step at a time. I know that sadness and despair can be all-consuming - I'm glad that you have risen above it for now and have your sights locked onto something positive in the future. There will always be both sadness and happiness looming ahead of us - I wish you well along your journey. I, too, am waiting for the morning of 11/5/08. Sometimes I feel as if that is when I'll be able to breathe again. (hopefully!)

:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. Extinction of the soul
Is a temporary pain worth that?
Because that is what happens when one commits suicide.You are no more.No heaven,no hell,no reincarnation,nothing.
Is it really worth it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
27.  I'm sorry you are going through this -
I have had such a difficult battle within myself that the last year has become almost unbearable .

I have never been the most happy outgoing person on earth by a long shot . I admire people who can connect and laugh about the simple things .

I feel my childhood has a lasting effect and has shaped my depression and feeling of uselessness . Even though I have enjoyed many times during my teens and had friends and enjoyed the many hobbies I have been drawn to I know find myself lost .

Part of this was the loss of my brother and then my mother . My father passed away in 1991 and he was the root of my shyness and the cause for my feeling of uselessness , something I have battled all my 58 years .

His favorite phase was " it's not necessary " when it came to having fun . This was beaten into my head until I moved away from home at 18 but has haunted me ever since .

I never learned how to be outgoing or to laugh much , there was no reason to and this has always brought strain in relationships and I fight this all the time ,

I burried myself in hobbies and learning crafts all these years and never really looked at myself inside or questioned why I feel so empty and now this is what I face .

I went through years of panic and anxiety attacks and still battle with this along with the depression it brings .

Now I don't know who am am as I try to re-invent myself , I feel I have wasted my entire life .

I do hope to somehow climb out of this and often wonder if it's worth the effort and energy that I don't seem to have .

I still search for some meaning .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. I used to think I'd have no reason left to live once all of the Star Wars films were complete.
I guess I'm fortunate they turned out to be such a monumental disappointment... :shrug:

Like you, I'm left still wanting to know the rest of the story (or at least see a satisfactory conclusion). :)

(Now, of course, my one and a half year old daughter helps of course. Maybe that's what you need...A DAUGHTER!!!)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
33. beautiful essay
i've had to back up from the kill switch a couple of times myself, so i know of what you speak
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-29-07 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
36. Group Hug!
:grouphug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
37. Brilliant. Beautiful.
Edited on Sat Jun-30-07 01:53 AM by spoony
I can picture the many, many heads that nod whilst reading your post. I hope that if you have a blog here or elsewhere or post elsewhere that you put it up there too, because this is the sort of essay that people read and remember.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 06th 2024, 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC