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O.K. the immigration bill is dead. Dead as our chances for a HUMANE option

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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 10:34 AM
Original message
O.K. the immigration bill is dead. Dead as our chances for a HUMANE option
The only result will be draconian walls, humongous MINDLESS expenditures on hiring Border Patrol, dune buggies, horses, "bio-metric" documents of all sorts INCLUDING for U.S. Citizens, laser thingamagigs, SUVs, river boats. AND the undermining of our economy. Plus a culture of snitchery that will make fascism look bland.

Our one chance to USE Shrub as a tool for OUR ends is dead. A Democratic president will not be able to overcome the bigots and xenophobes.


Here's my rationale from a few weeks ago (re-post):


1- It's a first step. 2- It's better than the alternative. 3- It's a NIXON-in-China opportunity.

A liberal on the discussion board was sincerely worried that the various proposals for immigration (the compromises with KENNEDY and Shrub) would create a sub-class exploited for labor and deprived of voting rights. I said:

1. It's a first step. 2. It's better than the alternatives. 3- It's a NIXON-in-China opportunity.

The most urgent of the opportunities is #3, NIXON-goes-to-China. People in border states KNOW Mexican-Americans, many of them on an individual basis, and even though racism also exists in the border states, there is still personal knowledge involved---unlike Tweety, O'LOOFAH, and on into the extremes of TANCREDO, SENSENBRENNER, MALKIN, and the Minutemen.

This is the closest I've come to saying something positive about Shrub, that he has a fondness for Hispanics. He had SOME contact with them, whether as servants (I don't know this), his partying at the border, his sister-in-law, the laborers in in various failed businesses, his AWOL flights into Central and South America for drugs or CIA-Poppy. Jeb Crow Shrub has had various business parterships with Latinos for whatever nefarious ends.

In the paranoid '50s and '60s, paranoid of "Red" China, NO Democratic president would have been able to recognize China without being crucified, probably literally, by the John Birch Society. Only a weird straddler like NIXON--with his delusions of historicity--with his credentials as a Red-hunter, could have assured the brainwashed country that "Red" hordes would not be patrolling American streets if China were recognized.

So this is one of those moments. Shrub might not be so strong as Tricky Dick against his own flying monkeys. He collapsed on Aunt Harriet MIERS in the face of Laura INGRAHAM, fer gudness sakes. But if he doesn't do it, the next prez ain't going to do it, whether it's a wingnut president (without Shrub's border background) or a Dem, who will be crucified.

===========Now, that said, the liberal poster raises some profound issuess: The creation of a sub-class exploited for labor and deprived of voting and other rights.


I say, this Shrub law is a first step. It is likely that this sub-class argument will lead to the Supreme Court, and even a reactionary wingnut SCOTUS cannot ignore the inequality. If this isn't taxation-without-representation, what is?


What is the alternative? Despite the vehemence of the wingnuts' opposition, I have never heard WHAT it is that TANCREDO, SENSENBRENNER, DOBBS, MALKIN, and the Minutemen WANT. I hear the part about "securing the border" (a financial boondoggle), but what about the 12 million? Do they seriously want DEPORTATION?

It's a first step. It's better than the alternative. It's a NIXON-in-China opportunity.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree, this bill was the best first step we'll ever see. The liberals here who worried about
creating a sub-class, refused to realize that it already exists. Some, but not all, of the 'illegals' have been working day jobs for less than minimum wage. That will now continue, unabated. But many, many, immigrants have some sort of 'green card' or SSN that has allowed them to work at restaurants, chicken packing plants, on farms and ranches, etc. These folks are paying taxes and SS because the money is withheld. They do not always file for income tax returns for fear they will be found out.

Those here who opposed this bill saying there would be no 'enforcement' will just have to be content with the status quo we have today. Granting those already living and working here legal status would have eliminated the need for $billions of 'enforcement'.

Those who opposed the bill for other reasons, I would rather not point out what 'bugs' them.
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. This bill was a product of the back room and reeked of cigar
smoke. There was a reason all the corporate interests were supporting it. We need a serious, fair, and OPEN bill based on transparency. It will not be Bush who will lead us to such an outcome.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Just out of curiousity, do you suppose there was a reason all the racists were opposed to it?
Limbaugh, Hannity, and so on?

Bryant
Check it out--> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Redbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Because they dont want those brown people to be citizens.
There are at least four different positions on this one issue.

Nativist - Arrest them all and send them back. Build huge fences and shoot any climbers.
Humanitarian - Primary issue is the rights of these people as human beings. Make them citizens now.
Corporatist - Cheap labor is necessary for our economy, keep them here as guest workers.
Labor - Primary issue is keep business from exploiting workers.


The current bill gives the corporatists what they want and the other groups a little of what they want.
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Big Pappa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Kinda like the way
the Cong. Black Caucus was opposed to it as well?
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I agree with you 100%! This had all of the same paw prints to me as the
Patriot Act.
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SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Back room bills
I don't want to see any more bills passed that are 200 pages long and nobody in the senate has actually read them.

Something this important, they should act very carefully, and give the public plenty of time to read and analyze.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. Now we can get on with other things
like the Breast Cancer & Environmental Research Act (BCERA).

Its been sitting on Sen. Kennedy's desk waiting for a markup in the HELP Committee since late last winter. It has over 60 co-sponsors in the Senate and over 230 in the House.

216 chemicals identified as mammary carcinogens in animal studies (we need further research)

http://sciencereview.silentspring.org/index.cfm


Come on, Sen. Kennedy, lets get it marked up.



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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. You weren't really pinning all of you hopes on this one bill, were you?
And you don't really think this was the last chance to ever solve the problem, do you?

This Congress, outside of the investigative committees, isn't going to deliver without some major change. Stop holding your breath.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. As I said, this was THE chance. It won't return till AFTER Election '08, and then
the WH occupant will either be a Rethug withOUT any humane capacity or a Dem who will NOT BE ALLOWED by the obstructionist wingnuts to do anything significant about it.

The imperfections in this bill would likely have led to the Supreme Court, which, as wingnut as it is, will not be able to ingnore the gross inequalities of a sub-class being exploited without representation.

Last chance ever? Last chance for at least two years and without the NIXON-in-China opportunity. No, I didn't see it as ideal.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's one way it could play out, but you're making a whole lot of assumptions. - n/t
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Care to spell them out? n/t
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. You have no imagination? - n/t
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. It knocked the wind out of chimpy's sail, and for that I am glad. For once he didn't get his way.
Edited on Thu Jun-28-07 02:18 PM by Edweird
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. & this was the least offensive, most benign of his ways.All the ones he's gotten have been atrocious
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Corporatist - Cheap labor is necessary for our economy.
The US Corps are pleased that this has not passed. They like things the way they are. They have plenty of cheap labor without any strings attached. The far RW doesn't want 12 to 20 million to become Dems. Aren't there laws in play regarding Illegal Immigration right now?
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. What makes you think they will vote dem?
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. Oh yeah...
like your "NIXON-in-China opportunity" has worked wonderfully for our economy and job market. :eyes:
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-28-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. (since the thread got kicked up) Uh, "my" NIXON-in-China opportunity had no reference
to economic outcomes. Only to political efficacies, how the blindly ideological mindset of denying the existence of an entire, HUGH!!1 country was a denial of reality, and unworthy of a mature, enlightened country in dealing with other countries. And how only a wingnut president could have brought along the irrational wingnuts into a semblance of acceptance, instead of their probably assassinating a Dem president who might have tried to do it. Plus the wingnut outlook of BLAMING OTHERS OUT THERE instead of LOOKING INSIDE for root causes.

And to bring things back to the immigration problem, my support for this bill rests specifically with what to do, humanely, with the immigrants already here, and what to do to gain control of the border without our going nuts in throwing cash at border patrol over-recruitment, buildings and equipment, and biometric and laser identity documents for ALL of us, and without militarizing the border.

I can't claim NIXON's activities as "mine".
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jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-29-07 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
20. Shrub got everything he wanted out of this issue
He doesn't give a hoot about immigration. He and Rove saw the debate as a political tool to tear down Democrats and save the GOP. Plus it served as a distraction from Iraq.

Bush himself seemed to go against his base by supporting the immigration bill. But he's not running for office. The people in his party who will be running largely opposed the bill and were on the politically correct side of the issue. The debate was designed to peel away the support of independents and Reagan Democrats from the Democratic Party. And judging by the polls, this effort was a huge success. It's the main reason why Congress' ratings have gone into the toilet. The GOP now has a chance to win in '08, and immigration will be a big issue. Maybe bigger than the war, particularly if Bush is winding down the war come November 2008. And that's what he'll be doing.

This was probably the most ingenious political move I've seen from Rove, I hate to admit. While appearing to go against his base, he turned many people against Democrats and fired up his base. He couldn't have asked for a better scenario -- Ted Kennedy leading Democrats in a fight for illegal immigration. It was a stroke of evil genius. It neutralized the edge Democrats had gotten from the war and destroyed Congress' reputation.

When Bilbray ran for Duke's seat in San Diego, he was struggling until he made illegal immigration the main issue of his campaign. He won fairly easily and attributed his success solely to his stand against illegal immigration. That strategy will be replayed many times in '08.

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