Diabetic Man Kicked Off Train, Now Missing

[Contrary1]

This story breaks my heart. As a diabetic, I know all too well what the disease can do. I once had an episode in a department store, when I forgot where I was, and ended up walking into a pole.

Shame on whoever dumped this man off in the middle of nowhere. Even if the guy was drunk, there is absolutely no excuse for it. What has become of this country?



"PHOENIX -- A 65-year-old St. Louis man is missing after Amtrak personnel, mistaking his diabetic shock for drunk and disorderly behavior, kicked him off a train in the middle of a national forest, according to police in Williams, Ariz.

Police said Roosevelt Sims was headed to Los Angeles but was asked to leave the train shortly before 10 p.m. Sunday at a railroad crossing five miles outside Williams, reported KPHO-TV in Phoenix.

"He was let off in the middle of a national forest, which is about 800,000 acres of beautiful pine trees," Lt. Mike Graham said.

Police said there is no train station or running water at the crossing, which is about two miles from the nearest road, at an elevation of about 8,000 feet..."

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/13588607/detail.html

[bleedingheart]

1. he might already be dead...that is really sad and it makes me mad at Amtrak

[Senator]

75. Report: FOUND

(piggybacking for visibility)

Man missing after being thrown off Amtrak train located

12 News
Jun. 28, 2007 11:29 PM
A Coconino County Sheriff’s deputy has located Roosevelt Sims, the 65-year-old man aboard an Amtrak train who was ejected for appearing drunk and out of control about 5 miles outside of the city of Williams in Northern Arizona.

Sims was diagnosed with diabetes just last week. His family says that explains his strange behavior on an Amtrak train, not intoxication. Sims was transported to Flagstaff Medical Center for observation and will be interviewed by police when cleared by medical staff.

Other Amtrak passengers say Sims was left in a desolate area late Sunday night. Earlier, police spotted Sims shortly after he was asked to leave the train, but he ran away into the forest.

The Sims family says they're not mad at anyone, they just want to find their father. They plan on driving to the Phoenix area and continue their search.

[caligirl]

79. great of you to give us the follow up.

[Red Zelda]

2. Amtrak is a great service.

Too bad most of its onboard employees are brainless buffoons.

[Greyskye]

3. Will whoever did it be arrested for murder?

If this poor guy doesn't survive?

[LisaL]

58. Ah. No.

The whoever "did it" is not going to be arrested for murder. Amtrak is claiming they actually had someone with the guy and were waiting for the police to show up. Upon arrival of the police, the guy run off.
I really don't see a murder plot there.

[Occulus]

71. Link that.

The article DOES NOT support your assertion.

Where are you getting your information?

edit: the article DOES say he ran off, but DOES NOT say there were AmCrashtrak personnel there.

ALSO- Amtrak has used this as a dropoff point in the past, also according to the article.

(This shitty behavior ties directly into what's shown in SiCKO, by the way.)

[LisaL]

76. Read the freaking thread.

That's where I found the link.
But here it is again. Amtrak issued a statement the conductor and the guy were waiting for the police to arrive when the guy took off.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/KTVKLNews20070628_retired-guy.23d67705.html

[Tigress DEM]

80. How can a 65 year old man having a diabetic shock reaction out run the police?

If someone is a danger to self or others, the police are supposed to take them in. Did they lose their squad cars? Eat too many donuts?

Even if they assumed he was drunk you don't let a drunk lose in a huge forest where he could get hurt.

[HereSince1628]

4. When ignorance exercises power the results are stunning.

They couldn't wait to travel 5 mils more? That is they couldn't wait 8-15 minutes to turn him in at a station? Where there might be the opportunity to turn him over to police?

[BlooInBloo]

5. Oh jeez. I hope he's ok.

[JVS]

6. That's fucked up

[ShaneGR]

7. This just amazes me, like throwing a man off a plane with a parachute...

That's the thing, dropping someone off in the middle of nowhere with no water and miles from the nearest town could conceivably be construed as at least manslaughter. This would be no different than throwing a parachute on someone and throwing them off a plane.

[Fridays Child]

8. Outrageous.

I hope Amtrak gets its big, fat pants sued off.

[Big Pappa]

69. Amtrak getting sued

= us getting sued. But Amtrak made a very bad decision with this.

[Swamp Rat]

9. That is AWFUL!!! poor guy!

:(

Wtf is wrong with those people???

[Rosemary2205]

10. Hope the guy turns out OK and then sues their asses off.

Diabetic shock in the middle of nowhere doesn't sound too hopeful though.

[uppityperson]

11. oh damn. As a child my mom helped a diabetic in grocery store.

He could barely mumble but she had had nurses training (quit to get married, way back) and managed to get manager to get this guy help. That memory has stuck with me for over 40 yrs.

I hope this guy is found alive. Crap.

[SeattleGirl]

12. WTF???? That is outrageous!

I hope to God this man is okay. And I agree with some others here; it shouldn't matter if he was drunk, or going through diabetic shock. You don't put someone out, who doesn't seem to be functioning well, in the middle of freakin' nowhere.

I hope everyone who played a part in this gets their asses fired, and criminal charges brought against them.

Fucking inhumanity. :grr:

[Beaverhausen]

13. That is criminal

oh I hope they find him.

[Warpy]

14. OK, that's manslaughter

because even a drunk shouldn't be thrown off a train in the middle of nowhere with no access to drinking water for miles. No disoriented person or, really, no person of any type should be evicted from public transport far from habitation or a retail outlet, someplace there is at least a telephone.

It goes like this if someone is violently out of control, or even just disoriented and annoying: remove the other passengers from the area, confine the person to that area, and evict him/her at the next stop, preferably with a call to authorities.

Diabetics really need to wear alert bracelets. Both insulin shock and diabetic ketoacidosis can mimic drunkenness. Both can result in coma and death if untreated.

[RamboLiberal]

16. You echo my thoughts

You shouldn't just throw someone off in the middle of nowhere. Hell, why couldn't they call the cops to meet them at the crossing? Or wait until they got to the station. And even then the person should be turned over to police and EMS called just in case (like there are still cops who mistake a diabetic problem for drunkeness).

[Lex]

18. Yes. I do think criminal charges are in order.

For all the reasons you stated.

[Morgana LaFey]

42. I agree wholeheartedly

And I'll say this: whoever made this decision needs to be taken to the same spot and dropped off until the man is found.

And if he's never found.... well, I guess they can just stay there.

[Canuckistanian]

43. Right

Even a drunk and disorderly passenger should have been treated with a minimum of respect. At least the respect due to any human.

"beautiful pine trees" are no consolation to human beings who need food, water and shelter to survive more than a few days.

[nonconformist]

66. I completely agree. My thoughts exactly. nt

[MissB]

15. Yeah, it really makes sense to dump *anyone* off

in the middle of fucking no where in the middle of the night.

8000 feet elevation. National forest. No water. Diabetic shock.

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. He's done for.

I get hypoglycemic, and if I get too involved in a job and forget to eat, it overcomes me. All I can do is eat protein and sleep it off. It takes a day to three days before I'm functional again.

[lilymidnite]

23. I too get hypoclycemic

This is scary. I've never gotten so low as to be mistaken as drunk ... but yowsa.

I hope the man is found OK.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

72. Me too. I have to eat several times a day or else I'll start throwing up saliva.

I have had to argue with a judge in the middle of a hearing to get a lunch break. I offered to give him the phone number of my doctor if he didn't believe me. Then he backed down and gave me a break.

I'm not surprised that later this judge's regular court reporter worked herself to death at the age of 40.

[Kali]

19. WTF?!!!

:wtf: that is fucking insane! Hope they find him and he does ok. Idiots.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

20. What the HELL were they thinking?????

If he dies, someone had bloody well better be charged with murder. This is just not RIGHT.

[ThomCat]

21. I see murder charges the future.

There is no justification for dropping someone off in the middle of a forest. Even if he was drunk, how the hell did they expect someone to find their way out and get anyplace?

x(
I hope there is a district attorney paying very close attention to this right now.

[caligirl]

22. I found and used this phone number for the AMTRAK Presidents office

NATIONAL RAILROAD PASSENGER CORPORATION
60 Massachusetts Avenue,NE,Washington, DC20002
tel [phone] fax [phone]
Alex Kummant
President and Chief Executive Officer
AIV\TRAK

This came for the heading at this ethics newsletter.

http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/Kummant-Ethics-Letter.pdf

[badgerpup]

24. Does Amtrak have First Aid training for their employees?

Something like a basic First Aid course...which teaches you things like Heimlich Manuever, one and two-man CPR, how to recognize if somebody is having a heart attack or going into an insulin reaction, coping with wounds when calling 911 is NOT an option...
this could save them so much MONEY...

Magic word, Amtrak people...MONEY

[caligirl]

31. when i spoke to the amtrak Presidents secretary I suggested this

Please call. This is easy to treat with information and some juice. this is something that is a growing concern due to the rising type 2 population as well. Recently in Redwood City a champion body builder was in this state and the police man refused to let him get sugar. the paramedics had to convince the cop this man needed aid not arresting. Now the Redwood City police dept will be getting diabetic training.

[RamboLiberal]

25. I suspected from the name Roosevelt that this man was African-American

And of course good old Amtrak kicking him off the train. I have to wonder if his race played in to this.

His picture at this story link. http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=526676

[Horse with no Name]

36. Great minds.

I posted before I saw yours.
You are absolutely correct.

[AwakeAtLast]

26. So that's their answer for people who are drunk?

I know he was diabetic, but they were treating him as a drunk.

So they just let him off in the middle of (literally) nowhere? They couldn't wait for the next stop? Who is the brilliant person who made that decision?

If this had happened on a plane would they have opened up the door and let him fly?

Wait, don't answer that. x(

[karlrschneider]

27. Yikes. I've had a few passengers who I -wanted- to throw out without a parachute

but of course I never would...
Argh.

[Bitwit1234]

28. What is so outrageous is they said they had done this before.

Why hasn't someone reported them. Look at what happened once the country heard about Kaiser dumping homeless people on the street.

[Parche]

29. AMTRAK

Amtrak is excellent, but this should never have happened.
Could they have dropped him off at a city station instead?? :mad: :grr:

[XOKCowboy]

47. Looks like the California Zephyr

going through Colorado. I've taken it from Denver to Reno and San Francisco 3 times. It's really a beautiful train trip and an amazing experience. People from all over the world are on the train. Kids from Asia that speak absolutely no English will get on in Elko at 2AM and you think "what the hell were you doing in Elko??"

This story really amazes me. I wonder what the full story is.

[Vinca]

30. Wow - bet the lawyers are lining up outside this guy's house.

I hope they find him.

[caligirl]

32. amtrak NUMBER to CALL if you would ,encourage training please, is

tel [phone] fax [phone]


I have sent this to the government affairs office of the ADA.

[glitch]

33. Dear God. There had better be murder charges. Or if they are very lucky, attempted murder. nt

[pitohui]

34. sheesh, about what i expect from antrak tho

what a shame, even if he was STINKIN' drunk, you hold him for arrest, you don't throw him into a forest with no water to DIE, that's manslaughter folks

[Horse with no Name]

35. Has anyone seen my country lately?

:cry:I am also going to insert this...Roosevelt is a popular "black" name and I would bet everything I own that Mr. Sims was black.
And I would bet everything my children own to say that if he was white, he wouldn't have been abandoned.:mad:

[tom_paine]

48. Our nation is gone...gone to the ash heap of history, and it's not likely to come back, either

It too, was left for dead just as it was going into shock.

Our nation has become slightly evil now (as compared to the Nazis and Pol Pot), but the dark heart is swelling, and where once we did more good than evil, now we do more evil than good.

BushPutinism is trickling down into the soul of America. It is becoming who we are. And I do not think it will stop.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. This is criminal

I hope they prosecute the people on the train who kicked him off.

[mainer]

38. Throw sick Poppa off the train?

Throw ANYONE off the train in the middle of nowhere? They are asking for a lawsuit, and they deserve it.

[blondeatlast]

39. Good fucking GOD. A Coke could have helped him. A glass of milk, a soda,

It isn't rare knowledge what to do for a diabetic. I've taken insulin since age 7. even if they might have high bG, you treat for the low then do a bG. Insulin shock takes minutes to kill.

Give him the gawdamn Coke and stay with him. This has been a most crappy fucking day for me.

:mad:

[caligirl]

44. glucose from soda first, ,milk after he is above 75 to help hold it isn

a higher range. the protein and fat in milk work great but only after a glucose source has raised the blood glucose level. Parent of type 1 here.

Hay there! I posted before catching your name, long time since i've heard from you here. I sent this to Children with Diabetes.com, Islets of Hope editor, DREDF, called Janet Napolitano's office, and sent it to a National diabetes education web site. anfd Huff post. What else can I do?

:hi:

[blondeatlast]

77. Oops--you are right about the milk. A nurse once told me that fat-free milk

was almost ideal since the lactose breaks down so quickly and the protein helps prevent a spike and that's what I use at home, but of course it's not always available.

I think you've done more than enough. Thanks, sweetie! :hug:

[caligirl]

78. that tose is great at night for our son's bg, keeps a nice even bg going off to sleep. Thanks.

[Zookeeper]

50. Unfortunately, a lot of people still think that you shouldn't

give a diabetic any sugar. I've even heard nurses say that my daughter can't have candy, cookies or soda. And some are stubbornly reluctant to believe me when I tell them otherwise.

I'm terrified that she will have a serious insulin reaction and people will think she's high or drunk. (I can't convince her to wear a medical alert tag. :( )

Of course, the bottom line in this situation is that it doesn't matter what the heck they thought was wrong with the guy, they NEVER should have dropped him off in the middle of nowhere!!!

[caligirl]

54. So true, a school oard member said that to a group of parents of T1 kids, we fixed her

quick. This is where type 2 and type 1 get confused, people have no idea just how different the two are.

[uppityperson]

40. Here is his picture

http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=526676

[Reader Rabbit]

41. Even if the man had been drunk, that's still murder.

To abandon any human being 1) in the desert, 2) at night, 3) in a location with no shelter or water, and 4) miles from the nearest town? That's frickin' insane.

[BattyDem]

45. WHAT?!?!?

I don't care how "unruly" the man was - you can't kick someone off a train in the middle of nowhere!!!

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Amtrak and the employees involved should face criminal charges! :grr: :grr: :grr:

[XOKCowboy]

46. Something's not right here....

I've ridden Amtrak a few times. I've even been threatened to be turned over to the authorities at the next stop. I was in the smoking car when an idiot decided to spark up a joint in the john next to us. The harried conductor came storming into the smoking car and threatened to have us all arrested for smoking pot and that we'd all be turned over to the sheriff at the next stop (in Elko). Thankfully the idiot walked out in a cloud of pot smoke right behind the conductor and we were off the hook. Still they didn't stop the train and dump the guy off 10 miles from town.

I'd have to pin this on underpaid, under-trained and understaffed service staff on Amtrak. I still have to wonder what the trigger was to put the guy off in the middle of AZ.

Very strange.

[tom_paine]

49. DWB: Drunk while black?

I hate to make this a race thing, but I would bet dollars to donuts it is. I'll bet dollars to donuts it was friendless black drunks they threw out there, 'cause it was fun and hey, those bums know how to survive on nothin', they'll find a way out, right?

But this time they fucked up their little game. It wasn't a friendless drunk, it was a man with a family going into diabetic shock. But he was still black (and the ones who threw him off white, I would bet my house on it) so don't expect these poor misunderstood conductors to get jail time. They're basically good people, don'tcha' know?

:sarcasm: :puke:

[XOKCowboy]

51. Most of the people working on the trains were black...

So I think that your claim it was a Jim Crow lynching might be a bit of a stretch.

[tom_paine]

59. Maybe so and maybe no, neither of us knows the race of the perps

And I never said it was a Jim Crow lynching, not even close.

But it was something all too customary in our world and doubly so in our nation as it's soul turns evil as the tyrants who rule us. Bullies looking for someone weak, who they could fuck up without consequence.

I'll say it again: Dollars to donuts they were white dudes (maybe with a token black guy trying to fit in, and cursing that "lazy drunk" with the rest of them...I have seen similar things happen).

I don't know either way, but I would love to know.

[tnlefty]

52. This is more than disgusting! My Dad was diabetic and during the

first 18 months that he was being switched from oral meds (diabeta?) to insulin I can't remember the number of times that he'd appear at my back door, either madder than hell and demanding that I drive him home (blood sugar was too high and he needed meds) or practically falling through the door pale and sweating profusely (insulin too high). The first time that it was too high, I had to help him into the kitchen and into a chair and I was having a hard time understanding what he was saying to me. I finally figured out that he was saying "orange juice". Yeah, he wasn't making a lot of sense and he was so weak he was staggering around.

This just makes me furious and sad at the same time! Heartless cretins.

edit: stupid typo, note to self, don't type while extremely angry

[caligirl]

55. This is why parents of type 1's are so vocal about training teachers and school staff.

The kids are immediatly on insulin and sent riht back to school, where administrators try to 'administrate the kids medical needs' with no knowledge of T1 or T 2 or the problems with either.

[tnlefty]

56. After what I witnessed with my Dad, I'd be afraid of that scenario, too.

I mentioned a pump to him twice as he was having such wild fluctuations, but he made it clear that he didn't want any part of that.

At times I find myself thinking that administrators should close their mouths, open their minds and ears and take in what parents and doctors are trying to convey to them!

[IDemo]

53. Glad this didn't happen at 30,000 ft. with the same crew

I can empathize as a Type 1. I always try to have my trusty can of coke handy, and test my bg levels several times daily, but there are still some "interesting" days. What can happen in a very bad diabetes-caused hypoglycemic event is that the body releases epinephrine (adrenaline), which can really energize the patient, even with lowered blood sugar. Over the years, I have punched a hole in the wall of my kitchen, put a serious dent in the refrigerator, and other things.

When I was living alone, what would generally happen was 'awakening' after several hours with a pounding headache, the shivers, and a state of confusion. The glucose release by the liver was enough to bring me around. Paramedics will try to induce this by injecting a patient with 'Glucagon'. Families of diabetics are also encouraged to have Glucagon in the house and to know how to use it.

One of the best preventatives for misunderstandings like what happened to this poor gentleman can be wearing a Medic Alert bracelet and/or other ID. Not saying he wasn't, it sounds like with this crew he could have had "Diabetic" tattooed on his forehead and it wouldn't have helped.

[RamboLiberal]

57. This is the kind of story that breaks your heart - more on Mr. Sims

I've been googling hoping for a good ending. Gawd I hope they find this man.

Roosevelt Sims, 65, had finally retired.

So for his first vacation ever, the steel mill worker hopped on an Amtrak train in St. Louis and headed to Los Angeles to visit his family.

-----

Sims' family believes he went into a diabetic shock. They were able to call him on his cell phone the following day, but the 65-year-old sounded disoriented.

"They knew something was drastically wrong," Graham said. "They kept trying to call him. His conversations got progressively worse. He seemed to be getting more incoherent."

-----

"Amtrak followed company policy Sunday night (6/24) when a passenger was escorted off Amtrak's Southwest Chief train #3 in Williams Junction, AZ, at a regularly scheduled station stop with a station platform and roadway access. Amtrak would never leave a person alone in a remote location under any circumstances. In this case, the conductor and the passenger waited on the platform with the passenger's luggage. Upon arrival of authorities, the passenger fled into nearby woods. The investigation is being handled by Williams PD."

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/KTVKLNews20070628_retired-guy.23d67705.html

[XOKCowboy]

60. That makes more sense...

I just couldn't see them dropping him off and leaving.

It's not a happy ending but better that what was reported earlier.

I hope that he shows up alive. Poor guy.

[AZBlue]

61. I hope they are both sued and brought up on charges.

This is inexcusable. And, even more so, I hope and pray they find this man and he's ok!

[ironflange]

62. I always carry some Skittles or Life Savers

I've needed them the odd time, and though I've never had to help someone else, there's always the chance.

This story is outrageous. Amtrak deserves to have the book thrown at them.

PS: I wonder if he wore a medicalert, that may have helped. There's still no excuse though, you don't dump ANYONE in the middle of fucking nowhere like that.

[caligirl]

64. after misdiagnosing him as drunk they called the police to meet them

in the middle of nowhere. the police got there and then the guy ran off. They should not have decided on their own he was drunk they should have called the para medics, looked for a medic alert and had Amtrak done any diabetic training as they should have, this would have been avoided. On the flip side this guy should have had a medic alert id on, and since he was so new to this disease, traveling may have been better done when he had more time under his belt to deal with some of the issues diabetes causes.

[ironflange]

68. Wow, this is liable to get pretty complicated

:popcorn:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

73. I carry glucose tablets and protein bars for my low blood sugar.

[ironflange]

63. Here's the link to Amtrak's comments page

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/ContactUs

[nosmokes]

65. Put some folks in a cheap ass butt ugly polyester uniform and the power

goes straight to their head. where was this idiot's supervisor? where were his fellow workers? where were the rest of the passengers? somebody had to be around to say you can't do this to another human being.

[Rosemary2205]

70. Good question - WHERE WERE THE OTHER PASSENGERS

Did they all really just sit there and let some idiot schmuck put an obviously impaired person off the train out in the middle of nowhere? That is VERY profound question you asked!

[nonconformist]

67. MUCH more information at the following link:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/FBC134C512EC83DE862573090014A699?OpenDocument

Turns out the poor dude was just diagnosed with diabetes the day before he left St Louis. Also, it says that Amtrak called the police to meet them at the stop, but when they got there Sims ran off into the woods.

I sure hope they find him soon, and safe.

[Senator]

74. Report: FOUND

Man missing after being thrown off Amtrak train located

12 News
Jun. 28, 2007 11:29 PM
A Coconino County Sheriff’s deputy has located Roosevelt Sims, the 65-year-old man aboard an Amtrak train who was ejected for appearing drunk and out of control about 5 miles outside of the city of Williams in Northern Arizona.

Sims was diagnosed with diabetes just last week. His family says that explains his strange behavior on an Amtrak train, not intoxication. Sims was transported to Flagstaff Medical Center for observation and will be interviewed by police when cleared by medical staff.

Other Amtrak passengers say Sims was left in a desolate area late Sunday night. Earlier, police spotted Sims shortly after he was asked to leave the train, but he ran away into the forest.

The Sims family says they're not mad at anyone, they just want to find their father. They plan on driving to the Phoenix area and continue their search.